Forum logs for 25 Aug 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: there's defo a... market, for vpnism, just like there is a market for 'mail drops' to relay goods bought with stolen cc's, etc. just not clear that it's a market you'd want to be involved in. [00:00]
asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly. [00:05]
asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind. [00:08]
trinque: you should build for from whom you wish to take money, not yourself [00:13]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930840 << this is interesting enuff to merit own answer. on 3Ghz opteron, and with bvt's asm , could perhaps get even 28 kbaud ! of rsa.. [00:13]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:57:09 trinque: I'm not addressing whether he actually needs a VPN, but how hard is it to take p crypto and make a VPN? [00:13]
asciilifeform: trinque: re 'build for from whom', i cannot possibly disagree. but extremely skeptical that vpnism ~can~ be supplied economically by honest (i.e. not subsidized by washington) vendor, even in principle. [00:15]
trinque: current limiter is the lack of fat pipe, eh? [00:17]
asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers [00:18]
asciilifeform: each of whom would be willing to pay perhaps even equiv of 20bux/mo. i.e. collectively not even 10% cost of that pipe .. [00:19]
asciilifeform: this also touches so far strictly cost of pipe, and omits cost of disposal of the 1st 'genius' who starts serving 'pedo club' or spam emporium or whatever other attractive nuisance via his acct [00:21]
asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) [00:22]
asciilifeform: i entirely wouldnt mind trying to serve that market but suspect that it would need to be done from pyongyang, rather than montevideo. [00:25]
asciilifeform: ( aand w/ errybody involved having already left 'the big zone'. ) [00:26]
trinque: this is possible. I'll think on it more. [00:29]
trinque: going to turn in for now, night. [00:29]
asciilifeform: nighty trinque [00:29]
asciilifeform: ty for picking up the puzzler. fwiw i think erry day about it, but not made anyffin that could be termed breakthrough. [00:30]
* asciilifeform also bbl,meat [00:30]
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away [02:44]
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. [02:44]
ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here [02:45]
diana_coman: oh hey, nice! going to Ro too? [02:46]
ave1_away: so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-24#1930659, but I should be back next week [02:46]
ave1_away: No, unfortunately not on this trip. Ukrainian part is big enogh for now [02:47]
diana_coman: heh, big but also nearby :P [02:47]
ave1_away: I'm thinking of going here by car next year, wich would make us a lot more flexible [02:48]
ave1_away: Or see about renting something big, the way these orcs drive [02:48]
diana_coman: ave1_away: taxis shouldn't be all that expensive either [02:51]
ave1_away: My days this week will be very much get up / shower, enjoy big breakfast, enjoy long walk in the mountains, swimming, nice meal from wood fire, get to bed and fall asleep immediately [02:52]
ave1_away: even with all the walking, I'm fattening up nicely [02:53]
diana_coman: sounds like a very restful break at least [02:55]
ave1_away: taxis are not expensive at all, but I did not yet find one I would trust to drive me more than 100km [02:58]
diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km [03:01]
diana_coman: strictly on the face of it, you'd just move by 100km per taxi then, lol. [03:01]
ave1_away: well, drive locally where they know their way vs drive further, 100km simply magical cutt-off in my brain [03:03]
ave1_away: most taxis here, cars from early nighties, non working suspension, no belts etc. [03:04]
ave1_away: Currenlty we've been using the train for long distance [03:05]
diana_coman: heh, comes with nice meal from wood fire (and the smoke too, came instantly to mind ) [03:05]
ave1_away: yes, train definitely sovjet experience [03:07]
ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. [03:10]
ave1_away: The build script will then be based on this genesis [03:11]
diana_coman: sounds clear and a firm starting point to work from at least [03:12]
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away [03:15]
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. [03:15]
ave1_away: somehow, I was think that I should genesis the build script first [03:21]
ave1_away: and then have diffs of patch files [03:21]
diana_coman: ave1_away: well, the build script requires all sorts so it makes sense to have as genesis a complete starting point if possible [03:22]
ave1_away: but then, while walking I thought, no, it needs to be the other way around [03:22]
ave1_away: first genesis all the parts, next build scripts (if at all needed by then) [03:24]
diana_coman: makes sense [03:24]
ave1_away: well, breakfast ready, so bbl [03:33]
diana_coman: enjoy! [03:44]
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away [03:45]
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. [03:45]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930823 << this is the golden ticket here. [07:30]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:45:07 trinque: moreover are there enough customers that care? [07:30]
mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT. [07:31]
mircea_popescu: re awstats : there's no rule you gotta run it on the machine i nquestion. awstats will process ~any~ log in most standard formats, can just have an awstats box. [07:31]
mircea_popescu: all it wants is the hitlog. [07:31]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk [07:32]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:50:19 asciilifeform: atm bar is set scandalously low. pretty much anyone can format hdd (or subtler vandalism) of a shared linux box he has any form of acct on, with week or 2 of effort. [07:32]
mircea_popescu: all they need to say is hi! [07:33]
* mircea_popescu is rater on alf's side re vpn product notion though this may be borne of ignorance, i don't think i ever bought one. [07:34]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED. [07:36]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:18:11 asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers [07:36]
mircea_popescu: (yes, believe it or not, i ran a "all films reviewed on trilema" server for like... a year. to see if anything interesting happens. major pipe and everything, came to high four figures all told, mostly hardware, soem sweat to get it up. [07:37]
mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.) [07:37]
mircea_popescu: it was, i guess, sorta pleasant to see the thing keep the pipe full at all times, 100s of conns, if you do the math that's 4232690270208000 bytes' worth of good films i contributed to the ethers. [07:39]
* mircea_popescu chalked it up against his mitzvah account an' moved on. [07:41]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930856 << yes. the empire of stupid may be ~ultimately~ stupid, but up to there it's constructively stupid, can't just wade in head on [07:45]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) [07:45]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930866 << you wanna have a cuppa coffee in timisoara sometime this coming week ? [07:46]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 02:45:24 ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here [07:46]
mircea_popescu: oh. keks, we missed each other in ukrlands. how didja like kiev ? [07:47]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930878 << well, you get out of urbanity ? im guessing. [07:48]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:01:02 diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km [07:48]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 << sweet. [07:49]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. [07:49]
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 <-- imho the right thing would be to eventually steal "everything". i'ma definitely do that for hunchentoot, tho I expect it'll take a while, given that I keep stumbling upon binaries and utfisms in these coads [08:00]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. [08:00]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-27 12:51:02 mp_en_viaje: as far as your practical example : do not genesis parts include the 12 things in yoru genersis if they are needed. [08:00]
mircea_popescu: aha [08:01]
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930601 <-- the way I read mircea_popescu's comment re. blog was "if you're doing something interesting, then it's worth documenting". e.g. I know zilch about making red cents and would read if trinque found it worthwhile to write about his experience. [08:07]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 09:53:42 trinque: on the blog front, I've got some weird brewing in response to the tlp seroquel annotation. [08:07]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent. [08:07]
mircea_popescu: there's no specific rule that documentation must be limited to success. [08:07]
mircea_popescu: documentation attaches ~to activity~. [08:07]
mircea_popescu: that's the logic : if it's worth doing, it's worth doing human-ly, which is to say reviewably and since one can't claim entire classes of fundamentals aren't wroth doing, the absence of X or Y topic is significant of weakness. [08:08]
mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer. [08:10]
spyked: IMHO examination of failure also counts as "interesting" mircea_popescu has plenty examples of that on trilema [08:11]
mircea_popescu: yes, it is true, illo tempore, in ages long past, with expensive paper process, this was a useful approach. but today, it is counter-productive. [08:11]
mircea_popescu: spyked, it's just the secular, momentuous change of detaching documentation from success and attaching it to activitry plain and simple that's the major significance of current it. [08:12]
spyked: mircea_popescu, agreed. it's also what newton et al. used as a method and what academia could (I guess) have been if it hadn't devolved into the current shitshow. [08:21]
mircea_popescu: just about. [08:21]
mircea_popescu: but yes, historically, this was the longest held and dearest desire of all thinking men buried before we came : [08:21]
mircea_popescu: that they might have ink and paper to write their things down [08:21]
mircea_popescu: npow, we do. [08:22]
mircea_popescu: it's the pinnacle of stupid to go "now that we do, we dun wanna". [08:22]
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.09776 1KQ6jRPaa9RneTYMppJiMCsd1RqMeQM8H [09:31]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SoUGl/?raw=true [09:31]
mircea_popescu: trinque, ^ plox [09:31]
mircea_popescu: and lemme say i can't recommend namesilo enough. they turned out to be exactly the needed pill, but their bitcoin integration is actually so good, it interfaces with deedbot directly! [09:35]
mircea_popescu: if every wanna-be corp out there actually followed their model, shit would actually work! [09:35]
mircea_popescu: !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 [10:08]
mircea_popescu: !!ledger [10:08]
mircea_popescu: !!received-invoices [10:08]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VeSsB/?raw=true [10:08]
mircea_popescu: !!sent-invoices [10:08]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wr2Xq/?raw=true [10:08]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ulEq/?raw=true [10:08]
mircea_popescu: hm [10:17]
mircea_popescu: !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 [10:17]
mircea_popescu: is the rating broken ? [10:18]
trinque: nah, just swap it around [10:54]
trinque: ack re: above [10:55]
trinque: and I'm using a namesilo too per your recommendation, great service! [10:55]
mircea_popescu: o ic [11:25]
mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 [11:26]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtGzK/?raw=true [11:26]
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/08/localbitcoins-cracked-corn-and-i-dont-care/ << The Whet -- Localbitcoins cracked corn, and I don't care. [11:27]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930902 << not always TRT (and in fact is how we ended up with x86 etc) [12:15]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:31:06 mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT. [12:15]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930905 << 'format hdd' was merely example, did say 'or subtler vandalism' [12:16]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:32:56 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk [12:16]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930909 << even 1 leecher will 'fill' if you have no ration cap, lol. i was speaking of how many could even be served, at something like reasonable bw, by given pipe. [12:17]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:36:13 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED. [12:17]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930912 << approx same as feeding pigeons in the park [12:18]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:37:57 mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.) [12:18]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930934 << sorta why asciilifeform elaborately documented an' genesised e.g. 'M' [12:21]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 08:10:15 mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer. [12:21]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930942 << nao, shortage is instead time, in which to read, rather than ink. [12:21]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 08:22:04 mircea_popescu: npow, we do. [12:21]
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/25/the-new-old-vilnius-of-2019/ << Ossa Sepia -- The New Old Vilnius of 2019 [12:24]
mircea_popescu: "to automate and opiate" eh ? notbad. [12:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, that it is which is how you end up with entire swathes of maculature (usg "scientific research" or "news media" as prime examples) rejected out of hand. [12:46]
mircea_popescu: but this is a good thing! [12:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wasn't even thinking of the maculature, but of e.g. fact that thus far only asciilifeform has signed the logger . shortage of time does not disappear once subtracted the maculature. [12:50]
mircea_popescu: also tru [12:51]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: while ^ is true, signatures seem to be more than "lack of time" though afaik you read EuCrypt and actually satisfied yourself re MR implementation for instance but I don't recall any signatures from you - or did I just miss them? [12:53]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930963 << dug through logs, tryin' to recall whothefuck was princessnell and how merited this 'honour', found ~0 -- must've been in 'era 1' [12:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 11:26:07 mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 [12:53]
mircea_popescu: zzzing [12:53]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this aint even the most egregious example, there's trb patches ~by asciilifeform~ that have since been reground that iirc i haven't signed yet [12:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, mentioned recently, now writes stultifying government copy re "immigrants" at la times. [12:54]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: backlog on conveyor 1000km long [12:54]
diana_coman: well yes, that is pretty much a given as soon as one starts doing useful stuff but it still implies that signatures on *other people's* stuff are back of the queue while at the same time you see lack of signatures on your stuff as "nobody reads!" [12:56]
diana_coman: to link it also to earlier trinque's thread "nobody reads" [12:57]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the tree trunk in asciilifeform's eye, the mote in other's, simply examples!111 [12:57]
mircea_popescu: lmao [12:57]
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930818 << asciilifeform I don't have AWS installed anywhere, but we do have an access.log [12:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:38:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo when you wake up -- do we have site stats ? [12:59]
mircea_popescu: fwiw awstats is iirc a perl script [13:02]
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930847 << This is my understanding of the VPN thing. It's a market that demands Germany's subway tunnels of fiber because folks want to eat all the torrents they can through them. [13:02]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:08:42 asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind. [13:02]
BingoBoingo: http://archive.is/wPG7p << 3.33 USD monthly paid annually from the USG folks that stick their ads everywhere that should know better [13:07]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: lolz but leaving the examples aside a bit, it seems to me that there is currently a lack of incentive to signing basically people perceive it more as a liability (perhaps: I signed that and...what if I'm wrong/made a mistake??) than a gain [13:10]
diana_coman: other people's signatures are good and wanted but that's about as much as it seems to go so far. [13:10]
mircea_popescu: but that's the fucking gain. "o look, i made a mistake". [13:17]
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is that a negative ? [13:17]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I should have said: what if I get negrated for having signed it while it still contains a mistake/something I overlooked basically a too-perfect-vision of it or how to put it [13:19]
mircea_popescu: aha. [13:19]
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyoen's getting negrated for being imperfect. [13:20]
BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween. [13:20]
mircea_popescu: so far the bar seems more in the vein of the exact opposite, "seeking to hide imperfection" [13:20]
diana_coman: indeed it does [13:22]
diana_coman: but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already [13:25]
mircea_popescu: myeah [13:25]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931008 << for extra lulz, no e.g. ru in the list. ( and in fact whole list consists of a) nato reich b) quasi-satellites, e.g. brazil/india ) [14:13]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 13:20:14 BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween. [14:13]
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform is solidly convinced that vpnism, aka 'hide my ip!1111' derpery, is a fundamentally braindamaged 'solution' to a fundamentally misconceived problem. (to which the 1 and only possible ~actual~ solution is a 100% gossipd-style net which treats the older ip net the way the latter treats ethernet & co.) [14:24]
asciilifeform: all the pseudo-solutions reduce to variations on the tired old theme of 'tor'. [14:25]
asciilifeform: btw, for n00bz : try some time and actually subscribe to a 'vpnism'. you'll quickly see 9000 spam/day offering other products for the irredeemably-gullible, same as if you order 'colloid silver' or similar snake oil. it's a conveniently-affixed leper's bell on obvious, broad-daylight scamola of erry kind, they trade lists of chumps [14:29]
trinque: you're again describing products you would use [14:31]
asciilifeform: see also re 'lists'. [14:31]
snsabot: Logged on 2016-08-07 12:36:39 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link. [14:31]
trinque: there are not enough yous to fill a bowling hall [14:31]
mircea_popescu: actually, it's not altogether clear there is another one. [14:31]
asciilifeform: trinque: do you recall mircea_popescu's piece where 'offensively stupid poor' ? [14:33]
asciilifeform: trinque: dun mistake asciilifeform's pos. for 'it is loathesome, ergo i want no part in selling'. rather, describing why the product only even appears to exist because is convenient bait for usg fish hooks in the 1st place. consider, how could supply a warez bandwidth for people who expect to pay 3 $ / mo ? i dun even know if possible to supply a length of rope with which they can hang selves, for 3 $ ! [14:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: i haven't even touched on the ethical q of whether one ought to help usg herd the illiterate 'weevs' into gasenwagen by peddling faux-'anonimities'. disputing rather the very idea that ~anyone~ actually turns a profit in 'vpnism' other than by cashing cheques directly from washington. [14:48]
trinque: there's a thread right this moment on one of the heathen pits on which vpn should I use [14:52]
trinque: as for the "checks from washington" I think you bring your soviet experience into these things without first going and looking [14:53]
asciilifeform: trinque: maybe i'ma tard ? where in free world do i buy for 3 $ the GB/s bandwidth i can then sell to a weev for 3 $ ? [14:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the part you're missing is that the entire array is not made out of the one-worst-apple [14:54]
trinque: I'm criticizing the approach. [14:54]
trinque: not telling you where to source. [14:54]
mircea_popescu: most people buying a vpn spent 5-10 bucks a month on 12 cents or so worth of usage [14:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rright, all except for the inevitable customer who opens 'pedo paradise' and incurs 12,000 $ worth of bill [14:55]
trinque: I'm not trying to insult you, but this is exactly the "and anyway if I did" loop. [14:55]
mircea_popescu: by this logic, can't have a cup of coffee. too risky. [14:56]
mircea_popescu: COULD be poisoned [14:56]
trinque: most likely is, because satan has control of all vessels of darkness [14:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had a piece where 'if malpractice suits cost 100,000 $ and chance is 0.1%, procedure aint ever costing anywhere close to 100 $ ' [14:57]
mircea_popescu: it's not clear to me what we're discussing here. [14:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the economics of selling vpnism relays [14:58]
mircea_popescu: you're allowing yourself to be misdirected. just get the peopel looking for the item called "vpn" in empire universe on a rk or w/e the actual item is [14:58]
trinque: ^ [14:58]
trinque: and control w/e fraction of the pipe they get to use [14:59]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is what i said in beginning of thrd, neh. [14:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:05:14 asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly. [14:59]
mircea_popescu: just because they call it x in their fantasyworld has ~little bearing. [14:59]
trinque: no, there is no market of you [14:59]
trinque: this would make me sad if I felt like being sad, and I don't. [14:59]
mircea_popescu: "a literate user" is nonsense in this context. [15:00]
asciilifeform: trinque: what means 'of you' ? setting up packet relay on a leased box aint exactly high arcana [15:00]
mircea_popescu: basically alf is willing to do anything whatsoever but sell. [15:00]
trinque: you really need to hang out with some early 20s kids. [15:00]
trinque: if it isn't a red dot they tap and that's it, they're not doing it. and you have nobody else to farm. [15:00]
asciilifeform: trinque: could easily offer e.g. rk w/ preconfigged whatevers. but do you suppose these '20s' will pay 70 $ for 10kB/s , instead of lulazon's 3 $ / 100MB/s ? [15:02]
mircea_popescu: in a word, yes. [15:02]
asciilifeform: then wainot ! [15:02]
mircea_popescu: cuz you're nto talking to them [15:03]
mircea_popescu: people, by and large, WILL DO WHAT YOU TELL TJHEM TO. [15:03]
mircea_popescu: not "what you'd do in their place", not "what's good for them", "logical" or otherwise. [15:03]
trinque: the "it'll all be pedo traffic" is the other end of the "my precious children, can't let 'em bike down the street" [15:03]
mircea_popescu: people do what told to do. [15:03]
trinque: there are statistically no pedos [15:03]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm not even convinced that 'pedos' in the contemplated sense , physically exist. it's simply the costume usg puts on when bulldozing isps. [15:04]
mircea_popescu: it is quite unlikely anything like the usg socio-politico-legalo-wankist notion of "pedophile" exists in reality, yes. [15:05]
mircea_popescu: then again black dudes regularly come out ~average wrt penis sizes, seems to do nothing for the meme. [15:05]
asciilifeform: spammers, however, sadly do exist, and pose the obvious headache, the vendor that'll supply bw for ~arbitrary~ packets, no matter of what, does not afaik exist (outside of perhaps pyongyang] [15:06]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) [15:06]
mircea_popescu: neveryoumind that part, jeez. [15:07]
mircea_popescu: the last time anyone came even vaguely remotely close to anything like that, danielpbarron got his walking papers and the problem went away the same day. [15:07]
asciilifeform: troo [15:08]
mircea_popescu: why do you stubornly refuse to see, internalize and use the working process, notwithstanding it was both explained and displayed for your examination [15:08]
mircea_popescu: and isntead sit there and wank idiotically about what is little mroe than "what i read in playboy letters". [15:08]
trinque: if I can go briefly upstack, the proposal from me is to try things. vpn is just the first thing that came to mind. [15:09]
mircea_popescu: in the EXTREMELY unlikely case you actually get a user you don't want, can just rate and move on. [15:09]
trinque: if it's proved there's no market there, great, then you iterate moar [15:09]
mircea_popescu: but this'd be a marked improvement over the stiuation where you got no user at all. [15:09]
trinque: average derp has no idea what a box is, let alone what to do with it [15:09]
trinque: but average derp can install a vpn client by clicking on something. [15:09]
mircea_popescu: ONLY thing is, gotta talk to people. and tell them "here, is a thing, USE IT!". [15:10]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for my education, work through example where vpn customer starts sending spam. how do i even determine ~which one it was~ w/out loudly and publicly breaking the promise to the customers which makes the idea of relay appealing to start with ? [15:10]
mircea_popescu: sending it from where ? a rk box ? [15:10]
asciilifeform: if each 1 gets own rk, it'd have to cost at least same as what rk presently priced. [15:11]
mircea_popescu: nobody handles email by hand anymore, wtf, everyone is on google. if some douche wants you to install smtp on the shared server you just frown. [15:11]
asciilifeform: i thought idea (of orig thrd) was re how to monetize a large monolithic multicpu box. [15:11]
trinque: yeah, http(s) is the only thing anyone does [15:11]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you put smtp on it ?! [15:11]
trinque: the kids don't even torrent anymore [15:11]
trinque: they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e [15:11]
mircea_popescu: ^ [15:12]
mircea_popescu: this is kinda the bw-intensive use, and obv uy is no good for this [15:12]
asciilifeform: trinque: and you think this can be done via a 200MB/s pipe in BingoBoingostan ?? [15:12]
mircea_popescu: "fake in-reich ip" [15:12]
asciilifeform: aha [15:12]
mircea_popescu: aka miami-for-rent [15:12]
asciilifeform: it'd be ideal use for a 'uci' net, yes [15:12]
trinque: asciilifeform: I want to have a discussion that takes longer than the enumeration of your preconceptions. [15:12]
* asciilifeform in fact encountered several working cases of 'uci'-style nets, set up by various folx, for this [15:13]
trinque: the lulzy thing is your contempt for the lulcow could be reoriented *around* the milking, instead of lactose-intolerance [15:13]
mircea_popescu: huh ? [15:13]
trinque: I dunno man, that metaphor went way off the rails [15:14]
trinque: lol [15:14]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm 100% through enumerating, lol. will go into read mode for a spell, if trinque has specific 'get this obv. $item through yer thick head!' i will read. [15:14]
trinque: he doesn't want to talk to the stinky poor [15:14]
* asciilifeform gotta go into meat chore shortly [15:14]
mircea_popescu: i don't think he wants to talk to anyone, in general. [15:14]
trinque: trying the vpn thing is cheap, could be done easily while you still have coffers to try something else [15:14]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm actually all for offering it as a preconfigged variant of rk . my objections were 100% re the traditional variant, where all packets nominally become part of an indistinct outgoing soup via 1 shared ip. [15:16]
trinque: I am not prescribing implementation. [15:16]
trinque: maybe you, the operator of the service, do know what happens on it. maybe your covenant is to *not* share pipes with pedobearpig. it's all about muh datas and muh privacies, you see. [15:17]
asciilifeform: me neither (and if anyone can think of a 3rd variant that i've omitted, plox to write in.) [15:17]
mircea_popescu: just.talk.to.people. [15:18]
mircea_popescu: holy hell... [15:18]
trinque: on that subj, going to sit down and write for a bit [15:21]
BingoBoingo: <trinque> they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e << More to the point they want to watch US HBO/Netflix/etc from wherever rather than the local mirrors on their own ISP's network [15:32]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe. [19:10]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:35:44 asciilifeform: meanwhile: today's trilemalotto . [19:10]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931115 << i suppose it was your 'gentoo', heh. ( as i understand, debian perished approx. at same time as gentoo. ) [20:45]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 19:10:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe. [20:45]
asciilifeform: ~'07-08. [20:46]
asciilifeform: ( iirc ian m. wasn't shot till '15. but was already long vegetable by then ) [20:48]
trinque: not even an unreasonable gentoo at a certain time. [21:34]
trinque: had the src build story [21:34]
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc author went quisling in '08 [21:35]
trinque: gentoo guy called his memberberries "funtoo" if it tells us anything. [21:37]
trinque: that's what was lost y'see, the fun [21:37]
* asciilifeform vaguely aware of a 'funtoo' but never personally touched. [21:43]
trinque: it's the original dood after he gave gentoo over to the committee [21:45]
asciilifeform: a. [21:45]
asciilifeform: had, apparently, the nerve, to 'after', lol [21:46]
BingoBoingo: "Technology should be fun, powerful and free." << from funtoo.org [22:01]
BingoBoingo: And right below that: "Keychain helps you to manage SSH and GPG keys in a convenient and secure manner. It acts as a front-end to ssh-agent and ssh-add, but allows you to easily have one long running ssh-agent process per system, rather than the norm of one ssh-agent per login session." [22:02]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: almost interesting how monotonously 'same' these 'funtoos' are. [22:09]
asciilifeform: from 'i lost mah keez!111 and pgp obsolete!' zimmerman, to this. [22:10]
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/charting-the-charlotte-bdsm-scene-part-one-capex/ << lobbesblog -- Charting the Charlotte BDSM Scene, Part One: CAPEX [22:23]
trinque: > What was the meaning of the action? [23:20]
trinque: man I find lobbes such an entertaining character, and not in some kind of diminutive way. [23:21]
trinque: lobbes: I'm not even ripping on you [23:22]
trinque: you just have this comical precision regarding which I'm too inarticulate to define why I'm amused [23:22]
trinque: > and also ingesting the ashes throughout as he puffed it down [23:24]
trinque: meanwhile I'm over here writing this denuding, batshit piece. I think what's funny to me about lobbes is he may be the exact counterpoint to my narcissism [23:26]
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