Forum logs for 21 Aug 2017
| phf: | http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-20-aug-2017#2326577 << for the curious http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9209/culianu.html | [00:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-20 23:50 phf: one, Ioan Culianu, who was in turn killed in 91, some say over his criticism of romanian right, but of course we all know that he was dispatched by the occult interests over his research in that field. | [00:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | hanbot yeah that's a point. | [00:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | Laments from the deaf http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8704 | [00:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701361 << hey, it's not like herdemocracy happens on accident. insistently, persistently built why whole swathes of shitheads. | [00:34] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 03:11 phf: and on and on and on. march of progress | [00:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701362 << this probably captures the "stealing by name" pantsuit doctrine best. | [00:36] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 03:13 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701357 << ftfy "ASDF __3__ was __re__designed to be self-upgradable __by me__ precisely so that etc" | [00:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | phf fwiw, culianu was actually killed by the national-socialist PCR (romanian communist party). | [00:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, eliade's iron guard affiliations are very far from a little known fact. i'd wager more people know about that than ever read any of his books, let alone understood such. | [00:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | and maitreyi is mandatory reading in highschool! | [00:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo sounds more like dood is taking a (dramatic) vacation than anything. | [00:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: Likely he's in a high noise bubble | [00:56] |
| phf: | well, tbh i only just learned that the two knew each other. evola is mentioned in eliade's books, but only in connection to his books on subj, like "the yoga of power" and his study of pali canon | [00:57] |
| phf: | and the introductions to eliade's book don't go into apologism (unlike evola books, all the english translations require an mandatory disclaimer, that he was a racist, but only a little!1) | [01:00] |
| phf: | in other words i'm slowly discovering that there's life west of moscow, but before you hit berlin :o | [01:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | lmao | [01:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | for the record, most of what orcs (ie, americans, russians, etc) think when they imagine "Great Ole European CULTURE!!" is actually exactly between moscow and berlin : 100% spritz and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-09#1195397 | [01:36] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-07-09 18:44 asciilifeform: !s царь-государь | [01:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | there was one major cultural power in the time uncultivated minds can furthest think back to, a time whose murmurs come to them through the great-grandparents, and that time wasn't napoleon 3's paris. it was vienna. | [01:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | phf also worth bearing in mind that point re introductions in the rothbard series. people more recent than the author daring to pen introductions are the exact equivalents of herostratus and to be treated no better. | [01:48] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2017/08/minor-pantsuit-apologizes-for-crime-against-trump/ << Qntra - Minor Pantsuit Apologizes For Crime Against Trump | [02:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo wasn't serious, she put no btc on it. | [02:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, zher democracy can't be that serious if they can't hold the line | [02:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | i thought that was the whole slippery point of zher, that there's a hole not a line. | [02:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | They can't even bend their own to follow the groupthink when targeted for the minute of hate | [02:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, obeasts don't have proper holes. Gravity and all that. | [02:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile in "no means yes" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/21c5230f077f68c7f921beb9c304ffc9/tumblr_nwcnedWJl41thkzd8o1_500.gif | [02:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | Holes collapse on themselves | [02:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo are you thinking of gas giants ? | [02:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Means Means Anal! | [02:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Hamplanets! | [02:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Gas giants are what happens when you take hamplanets to Applebees | [02:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [02:25] |
| deedbot: | http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/ << Trilema - A Face in the Crowd | [02:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-friday/ << Remember | [02:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | Serious petrofood stink with those gas giants | [02:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/#comment-122723 http://nation.foxnews.com/?q=health-care/2010/09/08/obamacare-destroys-andy-griffiths-approval-rating | [02:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol! | [02:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | eh wtf he cares, old fart with santa monica house. | [02:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo amusingly, the "welfare state" / entitlement program is actually discussed in the film! | [02:41] |
| * BingoBoingo | puts on list to see | [02:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | griffith is against. matthau comments importantly that "at least he has the courage of his ignorance". | [02:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | After tomorrow's obligatory watching of dragon consuming sun. | [02:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | matthau being a great actor and an utterly iconic libertard imbecile. | [02:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | and in other "us entrepreneurship" aka "the incredible productive assets and unlimited human ingenuity existing in America?", i give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyw3lZ8Jw7E | [02:53] |
| spyked: | phf, asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701146 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701180 <-- thanks for all the refs. my initial plan was to start from whatever SECD papers I could find and better understand architecture specifics. | [07:32] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-19 23:57 phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components. | [07:32] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-20 00:51 asciilifeform: failing this, could start with cadr and slowly backport bolix envir. | [07:32] |
| spyked: | also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read. | [07:33] |
| spyked: | !~later tell mircea_popescu re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701196 <-- yah, but does protecting the "proles" from own stupidity even make any sense as a statement? sorta relates to idea on Trilema on whether the empire wanted to arrive to this point (can't find it right now). enfranchisement of the stupid directly lead to that. | [07:41] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-20 01:23 mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/062-greenspan-assault-on-integrity.html << the problem with this view is that the pantsuits correctly intuit that all the imbeciles they enfranchised are sitll imbeciles. consequently it would be no harm to a business' reputation to sell them iguanas on a stick and call it prime beef. they will never know and casual perusal of tardstalk "investor" as well as "community disc | [07:41] |
| jhvh1: | spyked: The operation succeeded. | [07:41] |
| spyked: | phf, slither.io is very similar to agar.io, which was similarly addictive back in the day. killed a lot of hours with it, so from that perspective, definitely wouldn't recommend trying it | [07:45] |
| spyked: | hey valentinbuza. you beat me to /join-ing #trilema. :) | [07:53] |
| spyked: | oh, btw | [07:54] |
| spyked: | !!rate mircea_popescu 4 master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners | [07:54] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Ygyf/?raw=true | [07:54] |
| spyked: | !!v C629131A95F6D5771C913AE538CFB1B39FB07945A2BD411D3E2ED61EE9DE3A93 | [07:56] |
| deedbot: | spyked rated mircea_popescu 4 << master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners | [07:56] |
| spyked: | !!rate asciilifeform 2 voice of sane computing | [07:56] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/u3P5B/?raw=true | [07:56] |
| spyked: | !!v EA5F068678EEE9ECD16B49045910E1F3615062DDD3F9AAD21E52990B3F1F2980 | [07:57] |
| deedbot: | spyked rated asciilifeform 2 << voice of sane computing | [07:57] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701413 << to get the fuck off unix and pc. permanently. | [07:57] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read. | [07:57] |
| asciilifeform: | rather than merely paper over them | [07:57] |
| asciilifeform: | a sane comp is a box with NO unix in it, anywhere. | [07:59] |
| spyked: | !!rate valentinbuza 3 fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset | [08:00] |
| asciilifeform: | 1 level below, x86/arm/pci,sata,usb, etc play same role as unix and microshit -- accumulated layer of sewage | [08:00] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WNenm/?raw=true | [08:00] |
| spyked: | !!v 5D865AC4F5962CA4FBA83B49EA73346177A614AD1068AB4638006E5B90F145B1 | [08:01] |
| deedbot: | spyked rated valentinbuza 3 << fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset | [08:01] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, yeha agreed. was wondering whether it's worth using the virtual machine as a starting point. | [08:02] |
| asciilifeform: | inho not | [08:02] |
| spyked: | although I'm expecting the code to have its own hacks | [08:02] |
| asciilifeform: | *imho | [08:03] |
| asciilifeform: | for starters, it is buggy | [08:03] |
| asciilifeform: | ( as in - crashes ) | [08:04] |
| asciilifeform: | whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime | [08:04] |
| spyked: | ok, so to sum up 1. get ice40 fpga 2. run fpga lisp machine (cadr?) work from that towards symbolics/ivory, or the other way around starting from symbolics. | [08:05] |
| asciilifeform: | the other aspect, vlm is a massive bucket of c liquishit, and not at all a compact description of the arch | [08:06] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first | [08:06] |
| asciilifeform: | to do this, will need to make world's first ice40+ddr board -- none exist | [08:07] |
| asciilifeform: | and no , NOT a matter of 'take opencores hdl and port' | [08:07] |
| asciilifeform: | you gotta minimize the delay and specify gates MANUALLY for the specific fpga | [08:08] |
| asciilifeform: | after this, comes ethernet | [08:10] |
| spyked: | was trying to get a perspective on things. I haven't dabbled in hardware since 3rd uni year (that was almost 8 years ago). and even then... well, I got a lot to learn. | [08:10] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: you will find that none of the existing literature is of any help | [08:10] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix. | [08:12] |
| spyked: | bbl | [08:13] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: i tried this, it's a dead end because papers over idiot hardware rather than replaces. and does not yield hardware sovereignty-- you are at the mercy of the chipmaker's continued making of 100% compatible cpu & peripherals | [08:15] |
| asciilifeform: | and there must be NO non-taggedwords code physically anywhere in the machine. | [08:17] |
| asciilifeform: | and not a single flipflop of state that we didn't consciously put there. | [08:18] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl | [08:18] |
| valentinbuza: | hi spyked. I just read the MP blog a week ago :) saw your old comments | [08:22] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END | [08:23] |
| asciilifeform: | you're welcome to spend 7 more. alternatively you can learn from my work. | [08:24] |
| asciilifeform: | a spoonful of unix in a barrel of honey -> barrel of shit . | [08:24] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, I see. I thought this would be a way to make the problem easier in the short/medium term. but I've had to deal with being at the mercy of X myself at another level so this makes sense. | [09:12] |
| mod6: | mornin' | [10:10] |
| asciilifeform: | heya mod6 | [10:10] |
| mod6: | how goes? | [10:10] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6: mostly snoar | [10:11] |
| mod6: | werd | [10:11] |
| mod6: | coffee time! | [10:11] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: consider, the amount of arbitrary stupidity you import even ~by having pci bus~ is gargantuan | [10:12] |
| asciilifeform: | !#s dma | [10:12] |
| a111: | 89 results for "dma", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dma | [10:12] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ some reading | [10:13] |
| asciilifeform: | and elsewhere, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694030 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694068 | [10:13] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-04 20:55 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform took the chance made by the death of ssd in 'zoolag' to attempt netbsd. result : no boot. ( with or without 'no acpi' ) option, hangs at usb init. | [10:13] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-04 22:58 asciilifeform: possibly one could try building a netbsd that doesn't try to touch the usb chip at all. then enjoy setting up sans keyboard. | [10:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | !~ticker --market all | [10:20] |
| jhvh1: | BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4003.84, vol: 7627.72154380 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4018.3, vol: 30043.72095863 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4103.023498, vol: 11645.10190000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4019.978, vol: 4926.6004382 | Volume-weighted last average: 4034.60775192 | [10:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | OMG, BRB: Dragon About To Consume Sun! | [10:21] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: as for 'use off the shelf iron', see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552690 and elsewhere. | [10:28] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-10-04 15:36 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! pc engines 'apu2' (the board with the intel nics - vs. 'apu1', with realtek) , turns out, is crippled, hdt probe barfs with it, the cpu is reputed to have a drm fuse set. | [10:28] |
| asciilifeform: | see also the sad story of movitz | [10:28] |
| asciilifeform: | !#s movitz | [10:28] |
| a111: | 14 results for "movitz", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=movitz | [10:28] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, lol, yeah, that's why I gave MIPS as an example. but actually, MIPS on FPGA + MIPS Lisp machine implementation might be more work than starting from CADR. that is, not even accounting for RAM and peripherals | [10:41] |
| phf: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << another little known fact, there are race conditions in genera itself, that manifest in higher clock environments. | [10:41] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 12:04 asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime | [10:41] |
| spyked: | I'm still in the process of grokking the DMA+interrupts discussion. | [10:42] |
| phf: | i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances | [10:43] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: forget mips | [10:48] |
| asciilifeform: | and other nontagged cpu. | [10:49] |
| asciilifeform: | they don't belong in the future. | [10:49] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die. | [10:49] |
| phf: | now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits | [10:49] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and yes genera used it and yes you need it for historically accurate ivorytron. but dun belong in sanecomp. ) | [10:50] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: designing a reasonably sane ( a la 'scheme79' ) cpu is not actually the hard part. | [10:51] |
| asciilifeform: | reliable controller for usefully large ram, and peripherals ( the only strictly necessary periphs are nic and a reasonable ssd persistent storage ) | [10:51] |
| asciilifeform: | are the hard part. | [10:51] |
| spyked: | http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544148 <-- ah. precisely the discussion. | [10:52] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-09-17 17:05 phf: take movitz, take lice https://web.archive.org/web/20080624230234/http://www.emmett.ca/~sabetts/, add tcpip stack to it, add irc. what else one needs for tmsr-ing | [10:52] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: didja miss the part where it runs on no modern nic ? or the thread where ALL modern nics are built to use dma, which gives the nic vendor access to every byte of your ram ? | [10:53] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, yeah, it's right below phf's initial reply. the whole thing | [10:53] |
| asciilifeform: | sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions. | [10:54] |
| asciilifeform: | no magic 'available until we reversed it, then magically evaporates from market' chips. | [10:55] |
| asciilifeform: | ( as for 'ice' itself, if it were to vanish, we can have clones rolling off conveyor in 6mo or so for coupla hundred btc. not so for magical stateful nic etc ) | [10:56] |
| spyked: | yeah, that makes sense. | [10:57] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: what you & dks et al observed is called complexity shitstack collapse. | [10:59] |
| asciilifeform: | it is not curable. | [10:59] |
| phf: | i still stand by this point, but with a disclaimer. i think that one of the advantages early hackers had was that they were working from inside their systems. linus was dogfooding linux, symbolics were using every lisp machine at their disposal to build better lisp machines. i think there's inherent folly in planning a revolution from the comfort of our bourgeois machines :p | [10:59] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: the notion is to build a box with sufficient ram, horse, capacity to drive xterm, so that you can sit down on it and edit the fpga config per se. | [11:00] |
| asciilifeform: | closing the ouroborus. | [11:00] |
| phf: | right, but you can already do that with, say, fpga cadr. it's not necessarily a shiny experience though | [11:00] |
| asciilifeform: | cadr sucks because it was designed around off the shelf alu and misc glue of the time. | [11:00] |
| asciilifeform: | nongranular. | [11:01] |
| asciilifeform: | the designers were crippled by the extreme transistorpoverty of the time. | [11:01] |
| asciilifeform: | there's NO reason to emulate, e.g., amd am2900, for all time. | [11:03] |
| phf: | sure, but chinual is extremely detailed and the ~architecture~ can be improved incrementaly. for example brad's cpu is, yes, implemented as an emulator for a discrete circuit. but at the same time it can be isolated from the bus, put into a determenistic harness, and rewritten from the cpu spec in chinual. | [11:04] |
| phf: | to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory | [11:05] |
| asciilifeform: | in other, slightly related lulz, http://www.vzpp-s.ru/production/catalog.pdf << ru clones of fairly recent altera fpga !! | [11:05] |
| phf: | i should clarify that rather architecture can be improved ~upon~ incrementaly | [11:05] |
| asciilifeform: | in production today. | [11:05] |
| asciilifeform: | suggests that d00dz have the spec ! somewhere. | [11:05] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: i am not convinced that cpu arch CAN be improved on incrementally. | [11:06] |
| asciilifeform: | the crud builds up, and you get x86-64. | [11:06] |
| phf: | pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months | [11:06] |
| asciilifeform: | 'для проектирования используется САПР ф.Altera − MAX+PLUS II или Quartus II' << pfff yea suggests brute force 'crystal, complete with 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg banner' copy. | [11:07] |
| asciilifeform: | https://electronix.ru/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t68107.html << moar whiners >> 'Пообщался я тут немного с ребятами, которые эту ПЛИС уже некоторое время окучивают. В общем, впечатления не самые благостные. Обвяз для подключения на отечественных элементах занял примерно кор | [11:09] |
| asciilifeform: | пусов 20. Корпус выглядит отвратительно, выводы болтаются, отформовать нормально очень тяжело. Ну и на закуску - нумерация выводов НЕ СОВПАДАЕТ с фирменной альтеровской. Так что прежде чем рисовать схему я бы вам все-таки советовал попробов | [11:09] |
| asciilifeform: | ать получить хоть какую-то документацию официальным путем.' | [11:09] |
| * asciilifeform | begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production' | [11:16] |
| asciilifeform: | ( in modern ru mil production chain, they still mandate ancient orcish pinouts and case dimensions, supposedly to prevent substitution with cheap imported chip with name sanded off ) | [11:17] |
| asciilifeform: | examtakers -- optimize for examgrade. | [11:17] |
| asciilifeform: | today just as in ancient china. | [11:17] |
| phf: | i suspect there's still some amount of conformance with GOST. i personally think it could be a good practice if done right, but reading some usg account of it i can see how it can be turned into bureaucratic money maker | [11:19] |
| asciilifeform: | the orc packaging ain't a problem, imho it is The Right Thing to ban western smt spec | [11:20] |
| asciilifeform: | the problem is that it does not suffice to keep the producer honest. | [11:20] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and there is no way to verify that the chip was actually reversed, and produced in ru -- other than to present the specs, and a native clean toolchain ! but catalogue says 'use quartus from altera' ) | [11:21] |
| asciilifeform: | now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely. | [11:21] |
| asciilifeform: | either way, it helps us not a whit, these items dun seem to be any moar obtainable than 'elbrus'. | [11:22] |
| asciilifeform: | briefly thought 'hey they cloned altera, the specs must now be on the net somewhere'. turns out -- apparently no. | [11:23] |
| phf: | The Secrets of Meta-NSA by what's that guy from yesterday | [11:23] |
| asciilifeform: | culianu lol | [11:24] |
| phf: | hehe | [11:24] |
| asciilifeform: | incidentally in as far as i can tell, d00d was solzhenitsining for decade+, and very actively Musting Die from a very defensible imho pov | [11:25] |
| asciilifeform: | classic 'orc intellectual in emigration' | [11:25] |
| asciilifeform: | imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead | [11:26] |
| phf: | right, i didn't even comment on that aspect, because everything should be obvious from that article i linked. | [11:31] |
| asciilifeform: | dunno re obvious -- but it is strongly suggested | [11:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | !~bcstats | [16:07] |
| jhvh1: | BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 481539 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None | [16:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | !~ticker --market all | [16:07] |
| jhvh1: | BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4006.43, vol: 8737.86217624 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4017.1, vol: 29708.56397392 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4095.153, vol: 13610.99210000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4035.231, vol: 4765.27338535 | Volume-weighted last average: 4035.67611666 | [16:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | Today's adventure into the path of totality was very worthwhile, especially over merely vieing partial phase of eclipse. Based on traffic, traveling to the centerline of totality zone seems like it would have offered little additional benefit. | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain' | [17:18] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 12:06 asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first | [17:18] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [17:18] |
| asciilifeform: | ) | [17:18] |
| * asciilifeform | just unpacked one of ^ units | [17:22] |
| spyked: | asciilifeform, was going to ask. is there particular ice40 you're recommending? it might be a while until I get one but I looked over the list and they had various types (ultralite etc.) | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | ( for n00bz : no, you can't breadboard at 100MHz. gotta have actual board. ) | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: for n00bs i recommend 'icestick' | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | it has the programmator built in | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | and usb uart. | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | so no fiddling with wires, programmator dongles, etc. needed. | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform: | but the only ram you get is the 32k of sram on the crystal. | [17:24] |
| spyked: | so from ^ the "ultra"er models don't work with the open source toolchain? I was looking at one of the breakout boards earlier | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | 'icestick' is readily available for 10-20 usd wherever protojunk is sold | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: only the ice40 series | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | it has a plain matrix-of-LUTs structure, no built-in periphs | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | which made it a realistic reversing target, and it was apparently successfully reversed. | [17:28] |
| asciilifeform: | if you're used to working with, e.g., xilinx 'spartan' or 'virtex' series, it will feel VERY tight. | [17:28] |
| asciilifeform: | ( but, i will point out, is MUCH roomier than the xc9572 cpld used in FUCKGOATS ) | [17:29] |
| * spyked | hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software | [17:30] |
| asciilifeform: | i last leeched the xilinx hog in 2011 and don't intend to ever update. | [17:31] |
| asciilifeform: | i will be phasing xilinx out of my product line entirely, also. | [17:32] |
| asciilifeform: | ice40 leaves a great deal to be desired ( it is VERY small, comparatively, and doesn't come in a no-flash version, and who knows for how long it will remain in print ) but is by far the closest thing that currently exists to the sane fpga. | [17:33] |
| spyked: | this is gonna be fun. asciilifeform, I haven't looked into hw since 2010, so there might be stupid questions coming your way once I start playing with this. btw, I don't mind getting my hands dirty with soldering, I just have very rudimentary tools for now. | [17:38] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: unless you are VERY well-equipped, you will not be soldering ice40. | [17:38] |
| asciilifeform: | ( iirc the smallest package is a pqfp-64 ) | [17:39] |
| asciilifeform: | largest, that is. | [17:39] |
| asciilifeform: | ( physically ) | [17:39] |
| asciilifeform: | the 8k ( largest gate count ) is sold ONLY in bga. | [17:48] |
| asciilifeform: | https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-fpgas-field-programmable-gate-array/696?k=ice40&k=&pkeyword=ice40&pv1328=i960&FV=ffe002b8&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=-457&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 << e.g. | [17:48] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1419...0413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO) | [17:50] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1741...8967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO) | [17:50] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ http://www.usapublicdata.com/business/cAbAbk/ << lulz, usg | [17:51] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/12eLH << qntra fodder ? | [17:52] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [17:52] |
| asciilifeform: | 'Ten US Navy sailors are missing after a US Navy guided-missile destroyer collided with an oil tanker east of Singapore early Monday, the fourth accident in Asian waters involving a US warship in 2017' | [17:52] |
| asciilifeform: | 'USS John S. McCain' didjaknow. | [17:52] |
| asciilifeform: | 'The McCain is named for the father and grandfather of US Sen. John McCain.' lol!! | [17:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | ty asciilifeform | [17:56] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: you don't need to re-voice unless you got unvoiced (typically from connection reset) | [18:06] |
| spyked: | thanks for the tip. didn't know, initially thought there was a time limit for that | [18:07] |
| asciilifeform: | spyked: nope, that's only for guests who get manually up'd by someone. | [18:07] |
| spyked: | anyway, I ordered three icesticks (because free shipping, and would rather pay for extra hardware than shipping) | [18:07] |
| asciilifeform: | yea they're 'party favour' cheap | [18:09] |
| hanbot: | say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate? | [18:22] |
| asciilifeform: | hanbot: the 1st two are mine ( #1 -- zoolag, which is midway through a resyncing, on account of a dead ssd 2nd is dulap, which is humming along ) | [18:23] |
| asciilifeform: | the rest, i have nfi | [18:24] |
| asciilifeform: | trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining | [18:24] |
| asciilifeform: | ( ask him re current ip ) | [18:24] |
| asciilifeform: | iirc jurov has a working node in europe somewhere | [18:26] |
| ben_vulpes: | hanbot: .77 is mine | [18:26] |
| hanbot: | yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc. | [18:26] |
| hanbot: | aha | [18:26] |
| asciilifeform: | and BingoBoingo possibly also | [18:26] |
| asciilifeform: | hanbot: imho that'd be spiffy | [18:26] |
| asciilifeform: | iirc mircea_popescu has at least 1 public node | [18:28] |
| asciilifeform: | and possibly somebody else also ( shinohai ? ) | [18:29] |
| asciilifeform: | i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to. | [18:31] |
| ben_vulpes: | republican outposts in the sea of shit | [18:32] |
| asciilifeform: | ben_vulpes: via mitmtron | [18:33] |
| ben_vulpes: | world is a fuck | [18:35] |
| asciilifeform: | chronically very frustrated enemy, in tilt, and he does whatever he can with his few hammers. in this case it happens to be slowing tx propagation. | [18:35] |
| asciilifeform: | ( several cases documented in the logs, by mircea_popescu and others ) | [18:36] |
| asciilifeform: | all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack' | [18:36] |
| trinque: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701601 << correct, 3rd item | [18:36] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-21 22:24 asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining | [18:36] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell ben_vulpes was it you who had a trb patch abolishing the idiotic truncation of block and tx hashes in debug.log ? where did it go ? | [18:44] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [18:44] |
| ben_vulpes: | asciilifeform: 'tis sitting in my workdir, did not imagine it to be useful to others | [18:45] |
| ben_vulpes: | or hm where did it go | [18:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> and BingoBoingo possibly also << Yes, ip available to qualified inquirers | [18:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | anyways, trivial 2-liner | [18:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | if it were to be vpatched, it should abolish truncation everywhere in the codebase | [18:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | i struggle to imagine the poverty of system that behavior was intended to be useful on | [18:47] |
| asciilifeform: | ben_vulpes: iirc it's 15-20 lines ( all ~same snip tho, in each, of the truncation ) | [18:47] |
| ben_vulpes: | sounds right by my recollection | [18:47] |
| asciilifeform: | ben_vulpes: if you find it, plox to repost | [18:47] |
| ben_vulpes: | aye aye | [18:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Does anyone remember mp's piece on trilema where he talks about the capital crime of whiny bitch aggressing beyond his station? | [19:09] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2017/08/us-warship-named-for-minor-dynasty-suffers-casualties-after-aggressing-against-30000-ton-ten-knot-commercial-vessel/ << Qntra - US Warship Named For Minor Dynasty Suffers Casualties After Aggressing Against 30,000 Ton, Ten Knot Commercial Vessel | [19:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | ^ ty alf | [19:14] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell phf http://journal.iea.ras.ru/online/2008/EOO2008_4e.pdf << entomological various re culianu | [19:50] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [19:50] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell phf https://archive.is/fGAO9 << even moar entomologically, even higher quotient of crackpottery, but imho entertaining, re culianu. | [19:57] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [19:57] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/Repd7 << qntrafodder | [20:03] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [20:03] |
| asciilifeform: | 'man has been arrested for allegedly trying to plant explosives on a Confederate statue in Houston' | [20:04] |
| asciilifeform: | https://archive.is/a0McS << in same rag, photo of 'fender bendered' ship | [20:05] |
| asciilifeform: | or hm, nm, prev. ship | [20:05] |
| mod6: | evenin | [21:03] |
| mod6: | <+hanbot> say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate? << I do update it as people tell me. | [21:04] |
| mod6: | To all who have nodes on this list: Please update ben_vulpes or myself if the IP or status changes of your node. Thank you. | [21:10] |
| pete_dushenski: | hanbot: mine is fourth down on the 'trusted node' list | [21:29] |
| pete_dushenski: | !~later tell mircea_popescu yo back! :D | [21:29] |
| jhvh1: | pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded. | [21:29] |
| pete_dushenski: | no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ? | [21:31] |
| pete_dushenski: | !#s felix salmon | [21:32] |
| a111: | 4 results for "felix salmon", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=felix%20salmon | [21:32] |
| mod6: | and then http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-05#1497552 | [21:32] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-07-05 22:17 trinque: mod6: 172.86.178.46 << deedbot | [21:32] |
| mod6: | and that makes up the whole list. | [21:32] |
| pete_dushenski: | http://archive.is/LpbwN << "Are rich people presumptively bad?" is some grade aaa trolling. highly recommended for entemologists. | [21:34] |
| mod6: | pete_dushenski: maybe people wanna short, gotta give these things time maybe 'eh? | [21:34] |
| pete_dushenski: | "ultimately, the only way that philanthropy is really going to be able to shed its aura of noxious elitism is if the rich give up the reins of control, and allow the poor to make many, many more allocative decisions." << i lolled | [21:34] |
| pete_dushenski: | mod6: i'm just teasin' :) | [21:35] |
| mod6: | ah, werd | [21:35] |
| pete_dushenski: | but i was as surprised as mike_c (to whom, wb btw!) that the bch --> btc market actually came through, at least for triple-digit btc sums. obv can't speak to mp-level six- or seven-digit sums. | [21:37] |
| mod6: | ripe for the pickin' eh | [21:38] |
| pete_dushenski: | sure seems like it! | [21:38] |
| pete_dushenski: | ben_vulpes: a comment of mine on your latest blog post got scarfed, just a heads up in case you're not checking for pending comments regularly, or it got lost in spamola foldola. | [21:40] |
| pete_dushenski: | in other nodes, my latest 0-fullheight trb sync experiment was completed in a hair under two weeks. nb i say! | [21:42] |
| mike_c: | !~bcstats | [21:42] |
| jhvh1: | mike_c: Current Blocks: 481571 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 252 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None | [21:42] |
| mod6: | pete_dushenski: hey, nice! | [21:42] |
| mike_c: | hi pete! | [21:42] |
| mod6: | maybe that's encouraging news for mike_c who just started his sync adventure | [21:42] |
| ben_vulpes: | pete_dushenski: approved, ty | [21:43] |
| mike_c: | I'm at 292908 | [21:43] |
| mod6: | cool | [21:43] |
| pete_dushenski: | though i'll be damned if i can gather why it is that -connect'ing to 2+ nodes jams up every few hours whereas just 1 node sync beautifully with no issues for days on end. | [21:43] |
| pete_dushenski: | ben_vulpes: cheers mate | [21:44] |
| pete_dushenski: | mod6: ya, it was ~half the time of the last 0-fullheight trb sync i tried maybe 18 months ago, but that was on hdd and this was on ssd :) | [21:45] |
| mike_c: | asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty. | [21:45] |
| mod6: | pete_dushenski: yeah ssd helps | [21:46] |
| pete_dushenski: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1693691 << re "car wheel drm" can't say i've ever lost one of the "special" nuts myself but they are indeed a thing and it's not overly surprising that the shops won't sell you new ones but if you just drop your car off there, flip them a $50 or whatever, i'm sure they can take care of it. or, y'know, just know a guy. | [21:48] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-04 03:21 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: might know more | [21:48] |
| pete_dushenski: | mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand. | [21:49] |
| mod6: | werd, was helpful info indeed. | [21:50] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701677 << congrats mike_c ! | [21:59] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-22 01:45 mike_c: asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty. | [21:59] |
| asciilifeform: | mike_c: be sure to test'em | [22:00] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701681 << be sure to enable 'trim' | [22:01] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand. | [22:01] |
| asciilifeform: | extends life 1.5-2x | [22:01] |
| asciilifeform: | ( put trimfs as daily cron job ) | [22:02] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701650 << i cannot speak for other folx but possibly i'm not the only one who isn't eager to divulge all-his-btc-addrs ( much as we like pete_dushenski , picture, say , his iron were to be stolen, ect) | [22:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-22 01:31 pete_dushenski: no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ? | [22:04] |
| asciilifeform: | *etc | [22:04] |
| asciilifeform: | dumping shitforkolade is in that sense a very private work, more than, say, proctology | [22:04] |
| mike_c: | trimfs, will do. thanks | [22:05] |
| asciilifeform: | alternatively can mount some fs ( e.g. ext4 ) with 'discard' flag, same thing | [22:07] |
| asciilifeform: | ( but continuous, at slight write speed penalty ) | [22:07] |
| asciilifeform: | trimfs on other hand is a batch util, grinds disk to a halt for 10s or so | [22:07] |
| pete_dushenski: | asciilifeform: what means 'his'-btc-addrs ? | [22:08] |
| asciilifeform: | grrrrr fstrim | [22:08] |
| asciilifeform: | not trimfs | [22:08] |
| asciilifeform: | fstrim ! | [22:09] |
| asciilifeform: | pete_dushenski: consider what is involved in selling-all-your-forkolade | [22:09] |
| pete_dushenski: | who said anything about all ? | [22:09] |
| asciilifeform: | why the fuck would i want to keep any. | [22:10] |
| pete_dushenski: | let's just start with some, neh ? | [22:10] |
| pete_dushenski: | i dunno man, you're the one keeping is ~all~ | [22:10] |
| asciilifeform: | lol | [22:10] |
| pete_dushenski: | it* | [22:10] |
| asciilifeform: | if i go through the bother of setting up the furnace, i'm certainly burning all. | [22:10] |
| pete_dushenski: | as the kids these days say, you do you man, you do you. | [22:12] |
| asciilifeform: | but i dun see how you could use someone else's help in this exercise, without disclosing your inner rectal seekritz. | [22:12] |
| pete_dushenski: | no different than paying for fg 'discloses your inner rectal seekritz' | [22:13] |
| asciilifeform: | mno | [22:13] |
| pete_dushenski: | coins gotta come from somewhere, go somewhere else | [22:13] |
| asciilifeform: | disclosing privs to empty addrs proves ownership to whoever finds them. | [22:14] |
| * pete_dushenski | quietly imagines that asciilifeform 's seekrit is that he's bigger holder than... mp! | [22:14] |
| asciilifeform: | lol | [22:14] |
| pete_dushenski: | but how would anyone but me know where the empty privkeys come from ? let's say i hand them off to another guy, who has no idea where they come from but via me, and then he sells on xchange, and then btc gets funneled back to you, what then ? when inquisitor comes (which he won't because he can't or he already would've) do all three of us own coins because we've each seen privkeys ? | [22:18] |
| asciilifeform: | because somebody somewhere would totally do that | [22:18] |
| asciilifeform: | pass privs to pig who passes to cow who passes to duck who. | [22:18] |
| asciilifeform: | and inquisitors apparently have iq of a broken dish and always give up at first chance, also... | [22:19] |
| pete_dushenski: | bbiab | [22:19] |
| asciilifeform: | also gotta say that the notion that pete_dushenski would subcontract out a job involving privkeys, is not very good advertisement for his service... | [22:20] |
| asciilifeform: | imho this hypothetical exercise falls under the banner of Do. Not. Share. Privkeyz. With. Anyone. It. Never. Ends. Well. | [22:22] |
| asciilifeform: | not with mother, father, brother, fucktoy, nobody. | [22:22] |
| asciilifeform: | it's called 'priv' for a reason. | [22:22] |
| asciilifeform: | sharing privkeys, for any reason at all, is quite like sharing syringe needles | [22:31] |
| asciilifeform: | but with the added feature that it sets up a permanent wormhole between the sharers -- he gets hiv 20yrs later? now you do too. | [22:32] |
| asciilifeform: | putting your cock in the mains socket, is both wiser , more +ev, more pleasant, and less of a screaming abuse of the equipment and of the entire discipline that produced it, than sharing private keys. | [22:39] |
| asciilifeform: | even to 'empty' addr ( would you share an 'old' pgp key?! ) | [22:39] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701681 << before i fughet -- i will also point out, all else being equal , a ssd that is larger relative to the size of the blockchain -- will die more slowly ( trim MUST work for this to hold ) | [22:45] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand. | [22:45] |
| asciilifeform: | more ssdblocks total -> fewer writes per block per hour -> slower death | [22:45] |
| asciilifeform: | this being said, even respectably thick (500+ GB) ssd will burn out long before it fills. | [22:47] |
| asciilifeform: | it may prove more economical to run spinning disks with slice raid, vs ssd. | [22:48] |
| asciilifeform: | though to date i've found the cost, to be similar. | [22:48] |
| asciilifeform: | and ssd is considerably more pleasant to have around in close quarters, and doesn't lead you to dive into machine cellar to swap dying drives bimonthly | [22:49] |
| asciilifeform: | ssd also more , obviously, compact, and lower current. e.g. zoolag is approx the size of my fist. and runs from a wall wart. | [22:50] |
| asciilifeform: | outperforms dulap, which eats half a kw or so . | [22:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> dumping shitforkolade is in that sense a very private work, more than, say, proctology << AHA, balance of bleeding! | [23:13] |
| pete_dushenski: | asciilifeform: "another guy" can be read as no more than bch walletolade manufacturer. glhf auditing the code of the extant heaps required to sweep privkeys and send bch to xchange. | [23:36] |
| asciilifeform: | pete_dushenski: as i understand it's a couplea line patch to trb | [23:37] |
| asciilifeform: | ( 2mb and whatevers ) | [23:37] |
| asciilifeform: | to sit down on the phorq | [23:37] |
| asciilifeform: | but ftr asciilifeform has not, personally, yet tried this. | [23:38] |
| asciilifeform: | i ain't putting privkeys ( even 'old' ones ) in a networkedclosedturd . for same reasons as i will not be sending them to whoever. | [23:39] |
| pete_dushenski: | mkay. | [23:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | So, Trump gave an Afghanistan speech where he promised to not talk about Afghanistan specifics. Also We are not nation-building again, we are killing terrorists | [23:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> to sit down on the phorq << And once sat down on phork there is problem of who to talk to among the AWS sybils. | [23:52] |
| pete_dushenski: | !!key whaack | [23:59] |
| deedbot: | http://wot.deedbot.org/6326273b61a700af4cd95a7b8c6cab1924a64dec.asc | [23:59] |
Category: Logs
