Forum logs for 18 Aug 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: dump is post-whitening. [00:00]
asciilifeform: but pre-'nextprime' [00:00]
asciilifeform: thing is, nextprime cannot walk all that far [00:00]
asciilifeform: i'll walk through here: [00:02]
asciilifeform: generate(...) in rsa.c [00:02]
asciilifeform: p = generate_secret_prime( nbits / 2 ) [00:03]
asciilifeform: q = generate_secret_prime( nbits / 2 ) [00:03]
asciilifeform: primegen.c: [00:03]
asciilifeform: generate_secret_prime( unsigned nbits ) gives us a [00:03]
asciilifeform: prime = gen_prime( nbits, 1, 2 ) [00:03]
asciilifeform: and now, [00:04]
asciilifeform: gen_prime( unsigned int nbits, int secret, int randomlevel ) [00:04]
asciilifeform: contains a single rng invocation, [00:05]
asciilifeform: char *p = get_random_bits( nbits, randomlevel, secret ) [00:05]
asciilifeform: which then gets, for good shitgnomatic measure, [00:05]
asciilifeform: /* Set high order bit to 1, set low order bit to 0. [00:05]
asciilifeform: If we are generating a secret prime we are most probably [00:05]
asciilifeform: doing that for RSA, to make sure that the modulus does have [00:05]
asciilifeform: the requested keysize we set the 2 high order bits */ [00:05]
asciilifeform: mpi_set_highbit( prime, nbits-1 ) [00:05]
asciilifeform: if (secret) [00:05]
asciilifeform: mpi_set_bit (prime, nbits-2) [00:05]
asciilifeform: mpi_set_bit( prime, 0 ) [00:05]
asciilifeform: (apologies for l0g bloat, but this has to be done..) [00:05]
asciilifeform: AAAAAND this is where we dump the buffer. [00:05]
mircea_popescu: ah, that explains the weird leading. [00:05]
asciilifeform: which brings us to here and now. [00:05]
mircea_popescu: right. [00:05]
mircea_popescu: this guy's "reasoning" is a process of incredible awkward awesome. [00:06]
mircea_popescu: "to make sure safety is met, we ductape some met to the safety" [00:06]
asciilifeform: dun forget to glue a saf to an ety first. [00:07]
asciilifeform: let's try a small variation on the theme. [00:13]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/2123f7da-c117-442a-9d79-f316d0fae5e4/?raw=true [00:13]
asciilifeform: ^ patch for gpg1.4.10 [00:13]
mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ba0caef9-843b-4482-8d53-ac4f41420a17/?raw=true << with empty password "" [00:13]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9f874336-2304-432c-a9be-bf6f22955a43/?raw=true << output of above experiment. [00:15]
asciilifeform: ok we're all fools [00:16]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, mod6, mircea_popescu , et al [00:16]
asciilifeform: not one of us, it turns out, can count [00:16]
asciilifeform: log_hexdump("\nYieldPrime: \n", ptest, nbits) [00:17]
asciilifeform: ought to be log_hexdump("\nYieldPrime: \n", ptest, nbits/8.) [00:17]
asciilifeform: so now we gotta do it all again. [00:17]
mod6: i can do 2.0.30 with this ^ if that helps [00:18]
mircea_popescu: ugh [00:19]
mircea_popescu: o jesus [00:19]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c5ac34fd-8db4-45b8-bc89-5f7655045aa0/?raw=true << correct output. [00:20]
asciilifeform: but still quite depressing. [00:20]
mircea_popescu: 11 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 40 E6 / 11 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E7 [00:20]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b35a2bb1-15f7-44be-be39-b60faea2ede3/?raw=true << patch which produced ^. [00:20]
mircea_popescu: the lulz. [00:20]
asciilifeform: see folks, this is why i didn't qntra this yet, dun wanna pons&fleischmann it. [00:21]
asciilifeform: i'ma let one of you fellers tell me when i wake up why 11 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 also didn't happen [00:21]
mircea_popescu: you mean log_hexdump("\nYieldPrime: \n", prime, nbits/8.) ? [00:21]
asciilifeform: no ? [00:22]
asciilifeform: dafuq would an unintegral number of bits refer to ?? [00:22]
asciilifeform: and what did mircea_popescu use for a compiler, that ate this. [00:22]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> log_hexdump("\nYieldPrime: \n", ptest, nbits) [00:23]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ought to be log_hexdump("\nYieldPrime: \n", ptest, nbits/8.) << [00:23]
asciilifeform: did i push that button?? [00:23]
asciilifeform: yes i did, lel [00:23]
asciilifeform: anyway the patch ^ shown above is the ticket. [00:23]
asciilifeform: which is why i post the actual in and out, instead of contents of my head. [00:24]
asciilifeform: (in case anyone ever wondered why.) [00:24]
asciilifeform: now for the $64k question: [00:26]
mircea_popescu: well im running a 1.4.10 just for shits and giggles. [00:27]
asciilifeform: how the fuck these turn into the sane-looking p's and q's. [00:28]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> anyway the patch ^ shown above is the ticket. << recompiling for gpg2 [00:28]
mircea_popescu: i dunno but the p an q in your example share nothing useful. [00:28]
mircea_popescu: longest item is 5 bits. [00:29]
asciilifeform: in http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c5ac34fd-8db4-45b8-bc89-5f7655045aa0/?raw=true ?? [00:29]
mircea_popescu: no, the p and q from http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ababdff0-7902-42b8-9d39-732e1a701116/?raw=true [00:29]
asciilifeform: ah yes. [00:29]
* mircea_popescu put them through a binarytron [00:30]
asciilifeform: so far i am at a loss as to how one becomes the other. [00:30]
mircea_popescu: open source means the code is readable! [00:30]
asciilifeform: the output of 'YieldPrime', per my model, ought to end up in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524021 [00:31]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 04:03 asciilifeform: p = generate_secret_prime( nbits / 2 ) [00:31]
asciilifeform: etc. [00:31]
mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bf16a842-3da9-4891-9db6-78b99fefe0b9/?raw=true < 1.4.10 [00:34]
mircea_popescu: that 40 00 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 / 41 00 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 ain't goin' nowhere [00:34]
mircea_popescu: (160 bits, incidentally) [00:35]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and what did the p and q in the privkey look like ? [00:35]
asciilifeform: p1,q1, p2,q2 rather [00:35]
asciilifeform: (you get 2 moduli always, prim and sub) [00:35]
mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/48a0ecf5-0102-41f1-9ca7-a416d7c2bc3b/ << blank pw [00:36]
asciilifeform: ok turns out that nobody can count x2. [00:37]
asciilifeform: shall i say it or has everyone already figured it out. [00:37]
asciilifeform: hint: what does log_hexdump do [00:37]
mircea_popescu: you're having entirely too much fun. [00:38]
asciilifeform: and what is ~really~ in 'prime' ? [00:38]
asciilifeform: we're chewing on mpi header. [00:38]
asciilifeform: and probably ought to go to bed [00:38]
asciilifeform: at leas asciilifeform oughta. [00:38]
asciilifeform: the dumped string is RAW MPI CRAPOLA [00:39]
mircea_popescu: the FF FF endings are the concern. [00:39]
asciilifeform: i suppose i gotta do one last, sane run nao. [00:39]
mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/26b5d97c-d25d-4a8c-a97a-eae93211fd77/?raw=true << password empty "" [00:41]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5e37a7ac-2f58-41d1-a497-e808705505d8/?raw=true [00:42]
asciilifeform: and now, [00:42]
mircea_popescu: mod6 check out all teh zerofields... [00:42]
mircea_popescu: that "move the mouse and utilize the disk" thing at the top is so fucking lulzy... [00:43]
asciilifeform: sure is. [00:43]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/a05c54ca-62fb-4e5c-aa0c-c891f2acc1e1/?raw=true << output. [00:44]
asciilifeform: snooooooooore. [00:44]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you recall the comment about "setting the two high order bits" ? [00:44]
asciilifeform: aha? [00:44]
mircea_popescu: they're set. [00:45]
asciilifeform: well no shit. [00:45]
asciilifeform: but we knew this 20yrs ago. [00:45]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [00:45]
asciilifeform: 2 ain't 32 tho. [00:45]
mircea_popescu: anyway, with your code i don't get your results. [00:46]
asciilifeform: show? [00:46]
asciilifeform: ( aaaaaanyway my ORIGINAL aim when i wrote the tester, was to look at what happens at 4096 and above. which i haven't even done yet ..! ) [00:46]
mircea_popescu: i just did. [00:46]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524094 [00:46]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 04:34 mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bf16a842-3da9-4891-9db6-78b99fefe0b9/?raw=true < 1.4.10 [00:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu this is still a raw mpi hexdump [00:47]
mircea_popescu: log_hexdump("\n\nFurther lulz:",prime,nbits/8) log_hexdump("\nYielding:",ptest,nbits/8) << relevant lines. [00:47]
asciilifeform: that does not correspond to an integer, as such, it has pieces of it, chunks, each having a header [00:47]
asciilifeform: with plenty of nulls [00:47]
asciilifeform: and padding at the end of each chunk. [00:47]
mod6: building with mpidump [00:47]
asciilifeform: this output is rubbish [00:47]
mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b35a2bb1-15f7-44be-be39-b60faea2ede3/?raw=true << your patch ? [00:48]
asciilifeform: mpidump shows the thing you end up seeing in pgpdump -i. [00:48]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524113 [00:48]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 04:42 asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5e37a7ac-2f58-41d1-a497-e808705505d8/?raw=true [00:48]
asciilifeform: ^ the corrected patch. [00:48]
asciilifeform: i'ma never live this down, will i. [00:48]
asciilifeform: hopefully everybody kept it in his pons&fleischmanny pants... [00:49]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ^ the corrected patch. << I've got these changes in now. [00:49]
mircea_popescu: so basically, log_hexdump just reads off the stack, and it mostly reads garbage ? [00:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not stack. the raw mpi turd. [00:50]
mircea_popescu: i thought it's a memory dump [00:50]
asciilifeform: which transforms to an actual sequence of meaningful bits of the bignum via a gnarly process. [00:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mpi was written by braindamaged folk who believed that bigint ought to be able to 'grow infinitely' [00:50]
asciilifeform: and so it allocates chunks on the heap [00:51]
mircea_popescu: yes yes, but what log_hexdump does is, it dumps from memory starting at address going for count. pretty straightforward. [00:51]
asciilifeform: so yes, mircea_popescu phrased correctly, we are seeing 'memory dump' [00:51]
asciilifeform: were seeing. [00:51]
mircea_popescu: ok. and this does not actually correspond to the numeric format as used by gpg's bignum because mpi reasons. [00:51]
asciilifeform: because rfc4880 reasons. [00:52]
asciilifeform: they have a WHOLLY DIFFERENT format. [00:52]
asciilifeform: which, fortunately, we do not need to care about [00:52]
asciilifeform: pgpdump -i displays the actual int. [00:52]
asciilifeform: as crappable into, e.g., python, to arithmetize on. [00:52]
mircea_popescu: is this a matter of fact ? [00:52]
asciilifeform: the pgpdump -i output ? [00:53]
asciilifeform: try it yourself with a phuctor key. [00:53]
mircea_popescu: that gpg reads the correct number [00:53]
asciilifeform: i hesitate to use word 'correct' in relation to something gpg does... [00:53]
asciilifeform: at any rate, it is now possible to do the thing i ACTUALLY SET OUT to do [00:54]
asciilifeform: which is to see what happens to p2,q2 when you make 4096+ bit moduli. [00:54]
mircea_popescu: so when feeding the prime generator, it doesn't just feed ap ointer, but unwraps the thing through mpi-something [00:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all bignums in gpg are passed around as pointers to 'mpi' data structure. [00:54]
asciilifeform: which is quite gnarly. [00:54]
asciilifeform: i disentangled it from gpg last year, and posted result. [00:55]
asciilifeform: (quite compactified after removal of crust, e.g., optional asm optimizations, and dead code) [00:55]
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533 [00:55]
asciilifeform: there is a cleaner, still, unpublished ver. [00:56]
mircea_popescu: well /me is running this new variant to see. [00:56]
asciilifeform: you should see output that is same as pgpdump -i of seckey.asc [00:56]
asciilifeform: in re p1,q1,p2,q2. [00:56]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/werner-koch-confirmed-usg-stooge << may need correction... [00:58]
asciilifeform: 'haste - makes waste' (tm) [00:58]
mircea_popescu: yeah the update may get lopped off. [00:58]
asciilifeform: on the upside, we go to bed without having learned that all of the keyz are trivially poppable. [00:59]
asciilifeform: so there's that. [00:59]
asciilifeform: or at least asciilifeform does. [00:59]
* asciilifeform bbl. [00:59]
mod6: later [01:00]
mod6: my last is generating now... [01:00]
mircea_popescu: mine is actually rather different than his [01:01]
mircea_popescu: oh i c. so basically, the seed is put into "get next prime" and the difference is liable to be ~the last 3-4 hexdigits [01:02]
mod6: mine is showing like that so far too [01:02]
mircea_popescu: aha. this is pretty sane. [01:02]
mats: 'Finally caught, two decades later, he characteristically is neither willing to admit, nor dessist from the practice.' << i think you mean desist [01:04]
mod6: ok here it is: [01:04]
mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c4a7382b-cf62-409f-b911-1e7f9d6eebc2/?raw=true [01:04]
mod6: empty password ^ [01:04]
mircea_popescu: mats i think you're right [01:04]
mod6: anyway, g'night all [01:05]
mircea_popescu: laters. [01:06]
* mircea_popescu has updated the update. [01:06]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me1j7gf0TO1rgh5euo1_500.gif [01:17]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/225ED2BD4112F1BF529CFB1D4D37A9DE03C198284C418AD85364A543BD795AAE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.91 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.91 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.1.91@mkj.lt> ' [07:00]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/59CF09B5A54C07B13532A929E710A3DC31279D3683F660369BE64C0EAF77B7CB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.97 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.97 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.0.97@mkj.lt> ' [07:09]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/225ED2BD4112F1BF529CFB1D4D37A9DE03C198284C418AD85364A543BD795AAE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.91 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.91 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.1.91@mkj.lt> ' [07:09]
Framedragger: ...wtfbbq. [07:34]
Framedragger: sweet jesus, i don't even. [07:34]
Framedragger: ..good work on the gpg shitshow, people. [07:35]
Framedragger: fucking hell. nice public elucidation articles, asciilifeform and mircea_popescu [07:44]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. [08:27]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're on this btw, the way i want tmsr-rsa key generation to work is as follows : a contains a number of entropy bytes specified by user in tmsr-rsa.conf read whenever tmsr-rsa.conf specifies (such as urandom) b contains a base-tmsr string specified by user. c = base-tmsr(a).b p = nextprime(cut(sha512(c),257)) process is repeated for q = nextprime (cut(sha512(c'),258)) [08:32]
mircea_popescu: read wherever* [08:32]
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524000 << archived wotpastes from today's warzone: http://log.mkj.lt/wotpaste_20160818/ [08:34]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 03:55 mircea_popescu: btw folks - wotpaste wipes shit daily. make sure you save what you want. [08:34]
Framedragger: (i'll go thru them myself, interesting stuff..) [08:34]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you realise it turned out to be a datastruct artefact yes / [08:36]
Framedragger: is that why alf was calling himself and others idiots (or what was the word) [08:36]
Framedragger: (wait, no, that was sth else, right) [08:36]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sha512 and cut to be defined by user with the caveat that if they don't produce a min of 258 bytes / 257 258 bytes user is taking life in his own hands. we provide defaults (keccak , "take first nth bytes" respectrively). key size NOT to be defined by user tmsr-rsa keys are al 515 bytes long. [08:37]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger well he got a little excited. but the original observation was pretty scary, which is what got every hand on deck following along (me, mod6 etc) [08:37]
Framedragger: `log_hexdump` was being used incorrectly? (i'm only catching up, hey) [08:38]
Framedragger: yeah. [08:38]
Framedragger: okay [08:38]
mircea_popescu: yeah, apparently mpi ints are messy in ram. [08:38]
Framedragger: ah, ah. good stuff! [08:38]
Framedragger: an educational exercise for sure [08:38]
Framedragger: (more than that, but that, too) [08:38]
mircea_popescu: seems certain kock-rsa aka "gnupg" is getting uprooted. [08:39]
mircea_popescu: yest log is a grim testament of just how little faith republic has in gnupg, and for that matter gnu/foss generally. [08:39]
trinque: oh boy [08:39]
* trinque grabs coffee and heads to logs [08:40]
mircea_popescu: there's a pile of incidental nonsense (such as min length for name but not password hurr such as 2.0.30 current doesn't even fucking compile, such as etc) that shouldn't disappear under "oh, mpi" [08:40]
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523015 << warning website has been up two years, gpg still uses tiny fingerprints [08:42]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 09:47 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-15#1521810 << also see https://evil32.com/ [08:42]
Framedragger: PeterL: amazing, eh [08:42]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, i'm actually felling a bit of that constructive mp-rage towards gnupg. by god it should be kicked and replaced as soon as possible [08:43]
mircea_popescu: it's amazing... when in the blink of an eye [08:43]
mircea_popescu: you suddenly feel... alright [08:43]
mircea_popescu: ooooh, it's amazing [08:43]
mircea_popescu: and i'll be singing a prayer [08:43]
mircea_popescu: for the desperate hearts [08:43]
* PeterL eager awaits our savior asciilifeform to bring forth *something better* [08:43]
mircea_popescu: toooniiight. [08:43]
PeterL: *eagerly [08:44]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this bs just can't fucking stand, how someone can sleep at night thinking "hey, i'm a maintainer!" atop THAT codebase is anyone's guess. [08:44]
Framedragger: yeah, what. i'd be so fucking ashamed [08:44]
PeterL: and how can you call something "current" if it does not compile? [08:44]
mircea_popescu: "works on my system", surely. [08:45]
PeterL: well, didn't work on mine, I had to grab an older version [08:45]
mircea_popescu: bitches should be beaten with eulora compile process until their mucosa bleed cow's milk. [08:45]
mircea_popescu: "oh this is just how it is" my third left foot. [08:46]
Framedragger: PeterL: apt-get install npm install brew install pip install crapdep --no-check-sig && curl http://legitopensource.biz.ru/laststep | sh [08:46]
* mircea_popescu excommunicates Framedragger [08:46]
PeterL: Framedragger you forgot to put sudo at the beginning [08:46]
Framedragger: only one last step was left!!! just need to.. patch.. it's legit guyz [08:46]
Framedragger: oh yeah PeterL [08:46]
mircea_popescu: nuts. [08:47]
trinque: you forgot a sudo on your curl | [08:47]
mircea_popescu: and the sad part being THAT THEY DO THIS, TOO [08:47]
trinque: buddy of mine had a twatter somewhere listing the various open sores curl-to-sudos [08:48]
Framedragger: (for logs: http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste) [08:48]
trinque: scads of them [08:48]
mircea_popescu: oh and also asciilifeform : e not to be provided by user. tmsr-rsa uses 0x010001 and that's that. [08:51]
trinque: makes me suspect that reflecting upon one's actions evolved much later than this mindless imitation of what didn't kill some other guy *today*, and that most walkers entirely lack the former. [08:51]
mircea_popescu: all these bullshit knobs attached to nothing / nothing useful / nothing important, while the ACTUAL important parts aren't exposed. [08:51]
mircea_popescu: trinque that'd be factual. but while the process is excusable in toddlers and sexually undiferentiated children, it is unacceptable in menstruating women / bois over 16 or so. [08:52]
mircea_popescu: LET ALONE people with pretensions as to a life of the mind. [08:52]
trinque: aha [08:54]
trinque: Framedragger: among other reasons anarchism is not a thing, this. [08:54]
Framedragger: trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523314 (s/just to me/just ftr/) but, yeah. [08:56]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 17:20 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: just to me, any dreams of "global anarchist revolt" *are* lost on me (i'm terribly naive but not *that* naive). personal responsibility and individualism (vague word, i know) are necessary conditions. and.. yeah, i don't have much hope for humanity, given that... [08:56]
mircea_popescu: (why 0x010001 ? yes, it's a magic number. but it has magic reasons : 1) it is prime 2) it is the fastest multiplication on a 64 bit machine, because it's just a concatenation 3) could make it even longer by the same process, but that has a significant impact on speed with no visible security benefit. so it's magic for a god damned reason.) [08:56]
mircea_popescu: #trilema, where idealists come to be sad. [08:58]
Framedragger: sadness is a useful state of mind, fwiw [08:58]
mircea_popescu: there's certainly worse. [08:59]
Framedragger: related to install rage: https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/ [09:01]
trinque: not much sad about it that one person might be free if he achieves it does not mean all are capable of this. further, individual freedom requires having political control of others. [09:02]
mircea_popescu: well him not you. [09:03]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ahahahaha that lead pic is epic. might even be new screensaver. [09:03]
trinque: ^^ output of trinque's digested youthful anarchism [09:03]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's altogether unclear how much political control over others is required for individual freedom. certainly political control OVER IDIOTS, which includes small children, as well as all the adults with the mind of a small child. [09:10]
mircea_popescu: but appart from that... [09:10]
trinque: ah well, there's a lot of them around so far. [09:11]
Framedragger: ^ true, i guess and political control over idiots is not a de facto given at all, so, sure, problem. [09:11]
mircea_popescu: that my freedom requires the ability to send paul graham to his room without supper does not show that same freedom requires my ability to send Maciej Cegłowski. hes doing fine [09:11]
mircea_popescu: and omfg bbq he's in argentina ? [09:12]
mircea_popescu: http://idlewords.com/argentina/ << check that shit out. [09:12]
mircea_popescu: apparently he lasted all of two years a decade ago ? [09:12]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hmm maybe but i don't think so - i think he lived / spent some time there in the past [09:12]
Framedragger: heh. [09:12]
mircea_popescu: mmmyeah. awell. [09:13]
mircea_popescu: lived in san telmo too. poor sucker. [09:13]
Framedragger: of the argentinian-flavoured posts of his, this one is apparently well-regarded (haven't read yet) http://idlewords.com/2006/04/argentina_on_two_steaks_a_day.htm [09:14]
mircea_popescu: yeah i was gonna read through his shortish archive [09:14]
mircea_popescu: anyway, "San Telmo is a tango-rich environment and there are many studios advertising instruction, but this one seemed the most accessible for someone with social anxiety. There were no buzzers to ring, stairs to climb, or windowless doors to knock on." << the difference of style is palpable. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: though the effects are not : mp routinely refuses to trade with local idiots who lock their shops. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: oft the scene plays out as the guy frantically runs to unlock the door just as mp is jew-waving him and turning. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: who THE FUCK locks a shop door. [09:15]
trinque: bizarre [09:16]
trinque: hoping no customers will interrupt their nap [09:16]
mircea_popescu: trinque the stupid shit stupid people come up with is squarely not even, up until you get to hang out with them [09:16]
Framedragger: (i recall reading his post on polish astronomy pirates, wasn't aware this had happened: http://idlewords.com/2007/04/balloon_pirate_radio.htm and http://idlewords.com/2007/04/tv_solidarity.htm) [09:17]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hah, good one [09:17]
trinque: guy on IRC elsewhere was earlier expressing his amazement that I could find a coffee shop at 7am [09:18]
trinque: fucker, texas gets rolling early, gets jacked on stimulants and has half the world drilled for oil by lunch [09:18]
mircea_popescu: oh btw, re tango : it is a living testament to the ignorant, molasses-thick hypocrisy of these people that they regard tango as "their national heritage", when tango was invented and developed by BLACK DUDES. who then got a little bit of genocide, deliverately (argentina declared war with peru, told black people they make better fighters, sent them to fight, got them exterminated by the mountain folk. this is not unlike telli [09:19]
mircea_popescu: ng new york italians cca 1880 that they're best fighters and sending them into the ozarks.) [09:19]
mircea_popescu: today there's maybe fifty black dudes in all 10mn of buenos aires, and they came in the past decade from spanish speaking ex african colonies. [09:19]
mircea_popescu: in any case : if you're going to genocide an entire fucking skin tone, do me the general courtesy and don't turn around dressed in a plush costume of their dance. [09:20]
mircea_popescu: either they were too bad to live or they werent for chrissakes. [09:20]
Framedragger: oh my. sly fuckers rewriting history yet again :/ [09:20]
* Framedragger more sad [09:21]
mircea_popescu: take that, white supremacists everywhere : all white argentina is as bad as an all-fungus erection. i came here for the all-black argentina and didn't even know it at the time / [09:21]
mircea_popescu: fucking epic case of "i came for the waters" "but this is the desert" "i was misinformed" [09:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'аргентина манит негра' (tm) (r) [09:22]
mircea_popescu: heh [09:23]
trinque: usa killed off however many tribes, then named states, cities, damned everything after them [09:23]
mircea_popescu: in other news, girl now knows how to make pickled ginger. fucking hell it's nice to be delivered of the benzoate ladden supermarket stuff. [09:23]
trinque: I'm sure they appreciate it [09:23]
mircea_popescu: trinque ok, but naming is one thing. if the us presidential inauguration consisted of smoking pipe and dancing around in bear costumes, it'd be similar to these fuckers. [09:24]
trinque: ahaha [09:24]
asciilifeform: 'RSA keysizes must be in the range 1024-4096' << ?!!!! [09:24]
mircea_popescu: hm ? [09:24]
asciilifeform: gpg 1.4.10 [09:25]
asciilifeform: apparently needs a pill [09:25]
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4fd101d5-8f2d-4e01-94c9-239bd9abefb3/?raw=true << a 4096 run [09:25]
PeterL: you want bigger keys? [09:25]
mircea_popescu: sadly bigger keys wouldn't do much for gnupg. [09:25]
asciilifeform: PeterL: for the rng spill test [09:25]
mircea_popescu: and honestly, if you need a larger key than 4096 you should just pick a different crypto system. [09:25]
mircea_popescu: do the math on what 4096 means. [09:25]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 4096 is pretty spiffy until some bozo drills it out and puts in tungsten. [09:26]
mircea_popescu: in other news, i had no fucking idea russian has palindromes also. [09:26]
mircea_popescu: fancy the odds. [09:27]
asciilifeform: lel [09:27]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly. [09:27]
mircea_popescu: the only thing "i want more than 4096" says is "my crypto is broken". so fix it, don't make the broken longer. [09:27]
asciilifeform: again point was to observe rng spill. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: no i know. i was talking to the posterior tits. [09:28]
asciilifeform: (not to deploy pubkey weight a MB in battlefield..) [09:28]
asciilifeform: lolk [09:28]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone recall the video for "amazing" ? with all teh advanced technologies!!! [09:30]
mircea_popescu: "People dance tango at a structured event called a milonga (the word can also apply to the dance hall itself, or to a two-beat older form of tango music), the only social setting in Argentina where you must fetch your own drinks and empanadas at a bar rather than waiting for table service." <<< ahaha fucking bs. as erryone can attest, you get table service. [09:37]
mircea_popescu: or in the words of mthreat "no, i get it, they must bring your fucking food." [09:37]
mircea_popescu: "Men ask women to dance by trying to make eye contact and nodding towards the dance floor in a gesture called the cabeceo. In theory this is a discreet way for men to save face in the event of a refusal in practice it means men cross the darkened room, stand three steps in front of their intended partner, and wag their head gravely until she either gets up to dance or tells them to go away." <<< bwahahaha. fucking idiots. th [09:38]
mircea_popescu: ey do, too. [09:38]
mircea_popescu: thing is, we had the nod thing back in romania when i visited the eastern empire as a tyke, native chicks that spoke no language i spoke nevertheless knew how it works just fine. [09:39]
mircea_popescu: buncha losers, these days. [09:39]
asciilifeform: 'As physicists, radioastronomers, and electronics engineers, we were all struck by the possibility of doing independent broadcasts, if nothing else because that was our profession. My colleagues took part in broadcasts in Warsaw and other cities. Rooftop transmitters had low range. And they were easy for the security services to locate. We had to think of something else. Our colleague Andrzej Jeśmanowicz, son of the noted Toruń mat [09:39]
asciilifeform: hematician Leon Jeśmanowicz, was an electronics engineer and an ardent glider pilot. He determined that even a weak radio transmitter in an airplane flying at great height could be heard perfectly well over a significant area. That was an idea. Jerzy Wieczorek, a physicist (later president of Toruń) pointed out that we could attach the transmitter to a balloon. It would make the transmitter harder to find while enabling us to reach [09:39]
asciilifeform: a wide audience. We couldn't use a weather balloon, however, since it would be easy to check where it had come from. ...' [09:40]
asciilifeform: ^ whole piece worth reading ^ [09:40]
asciilifeform: in light of, e.g., http://trilema.com/2015/open-parasitic-p2p-relay . [09:40]
mircea_popescu: yeah guy's not bad [09:40]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo send the man a congratulatory email ? since it turns out you linked him first. [09:41]
asciilifeform: 'One reason you don't want to cross Eastern Bloc scientists is that they are by necessity handy people. Operating in a barter economy, even the most unworldly theoretician learns certain marketable skills. Besides the inevitable need to jury-rig spare parts for their own experiments, scientists have to horse trade for basic conveniences like anyone else. And so it was not uncommon to see ultraprecision machine tools and other laborat [09:41]
asciilifeform: ory wonders take on a second, clandestine life under advanced socialism. The local plumber who needed a new piston rod for his Fiat 126p certainly didn't mind if it happened to be machined out of elemental titanium to a tolerance of 0.05 microns, and the next time a pipe froze you could count on him to show up bright and early. In this context of creative craftsmanship and mutual aid the government had only itself to blame when illeg [09:41]
asciilifeform: al transmitters started floating by overhead.' [09:41]
mircea_popescu: the government has only itself to blame in all fucking contexts. either it's a government of the republic oppressing idiots, or else it has no excuse and no defense. [09:42]
asciilifeform: http://idlewords.com/2007/04/tv_solidarity.htm << also of interest. [09:46]
mircea_popescu: sadly stopped a year or so ago it seems ? [09:46]
asciilifeform: complete with zx spectrum [09:46]
asciilifeform: eh nothing's forever. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: this is generally what women sore in the morning said the night prior. [09:47]
asciilifeform: i thought it was ones sore the night prior said in the morning.. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: wait, now i'm cuntfused. [09:48]
mircea_popescu: aaactually the http://idlewords.com/2004/05/attacked_by_thugs.htm bit is both delishius and entirely reminds me of home. [09:53]
mircea_popescu: "we are finishing our penetration IN THE TERAIN!!!1" [09:58]
asciilifeform: 'In Paul Graham's world, as soon as oil paint was invented, painting techniques made a discontinuous jump from the fifteenth to the twentienth century, fortuitously allowing Renaissance painters to paint a lot like Paul Graham. ... I blame Eric Raymond and to a lesser extent Dave Winer for bringing this kind of schlock writing onto the Internet. Raymond is the original perpetrator of the "what is a hacker?" essay, in which you quickl [09:58]
asciilifeform: y begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about what it means to be a blogger[7] . These essays and this writing style are tempting to people outside the subculture at hand because of their engaging personal tone and idiosyncratic, insider's view. But after a whi [09:58]
asciilifeform: le, you begin to notice that all the essays are an elaborate set of mirrors set up to reflect different facets of the author, in a big distributed act of participatory narcissism.' [09:58]
asciilifeform: mega-lel. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: it's in the logs! [09:59]
shinohai: https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4y8m76/0130_binary_safety_warning_bitcoinorg/d6mao05 " Option 2 would be to skip creating the WoT, get the key, and verify its full fingerprint in several places, from several computers, at least once using Tor." [09:59]
mircea_popescu: i know cuz i put it there. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: shinohai fucking reddit. apparently they not only not heard of V, but their ears are simply shaped in such a way they CANT hear of v. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck nonsense is this. [09:59]
shinohai: I haz no clue [10:00]
shinohai: Such a slow month for qntra, was trolling for stories found this braindamage [10:00]
mircea_popescu: feel free to pen an explanation of why the republic's v providently defends against problems the idiots just now discovered. [10:01]
mircea_popescu: "Dulce de leche is a culinary cry for help. It says "save us, we are baffled and alone in the kitchen, we don't know what to do for dessert and we're going to boil condensed milk and sugar together until help arrives". This cloying dessert tar is so impossibly sweet that you wish you were ten years old again, just so you could actually enjoy it. It is everywhere. There is a special dulce de leche shelf in the supermarket dair [10:10]
mircea_popescu: y case, and the containers go up to a liter in size. Even the churros are stuffed with it - the churros, Montresor! For anyone who has had pastries in Europe, the added horror is that dulce de leche is identical in color, texture and consistency to a number of much less sweet, tasty fillings, like the earthy chestnut material the French call crème de marrons, or the tart kind of plum butter popular in Eastern European bakeri [10:10]
mircea_popescu: es. You see a thick layer of dark brown jam-like material and think, this couldn't possibly be caramel, there's just too much of it. And so worldliness leads you to great giant bites and then disaster." << this is very much on point. [10:10]
* mircea_popescu has had to train wait staff everywhere he goes to "sin dolce de leche" and also ended up qualifying-in-the-workplace harem pastry chefs, because good god. [10:10]
* asciilifeform while was a student, sometimes at an entire can of it in one sitting in place of a meal [10:11]
mircea_popescu: the only worse thing than argentine deserts is usian hermeneutics. [10:11]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of what, good god. straight caramel ? [10:11]
asciilifeform: dulce de leche. [10:11]
asciilifeform: it was sustenance enough for two+ days of programming. [10:12]
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder you still have ytour teeth. [10:12]
asciilifeform: believe or not, i also had a working toothbrush. [10:12]
mircea_popescu: so do most cocaine fiends. sugar is sugar. [10:12]
PeterL: my current project at work is working with cocaine (measuring small levels of impurities in a pharmaceutical cocaine solution) [10:28]
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-12#1519513 well she washed her hair, now what? http://i.imgur.com/hG8uhUx.png [10:31]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-12 16:50 trinque: could wash her hair [10:31]
thestringpuller: PeterL: tell me about fractional distillation...for um science... [11:26]
PeterL: thestringpuller what ya wana know? you heat stuff and it boils fractionally [11:31]
thestringpuller: i'm doing it for refining "essential Oils", i'm going to buy a short path fractional distillation set [11:32]
thestringpuller: just didn't know if there is a lab I should do to learn the process better [11:32]
PeterL: try maybe chem 152 (or however your school numbers things) "into to organic chemistry lab" [11:33]
PeterL: *intro [11:34]
thestringpuller: damn. why did i Have to take bio instead of o-chem for my lab science [11:34]
mircea_popescu: shinohai now she should was your hair. [11:34]
* mircea_popescu is enjoying teh mileage shinohai gets out of teh tits. [11:35]
shinohai: We will see what September brings mircea_popescu thx! [11:35]
PeterL: thestringpuller: things like that, it might work better to do vacuum distilation with some dry ice or liquid nitrogen, so the heat does not decompose things? [11:35]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: harem's are much harder to manage in USG. The pets are higher maintenance. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: harem made out of negative contributors is a pretty doomed affair. [11:35]
* asciilifeform pictures sad tokamak equation, for harem [11:36]
thestringpuller: coincedentally everyone who tried fail. one of my buddies got up to 4 women. then one of them started complaining about "life problems". he tried to shut it down like, "Either get to steppin or shut the fuck up." Did not go over well. [11:37]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except the magnetism flows from the penis! [11:37]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: actual 'inpatient' harem ? [11:37]
thestringpuller: He told me, "American parents did not raise their daughters to be women. But raised them to be disney princesses." [11:37]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: yea inpatient harem where girls are college students (Buyers market) [11:38]
mircea_popescu: what about the others of your buddies ? [11:39]
thestringpuller: PeterL: yea i have a few videos where they use a vacuum pump and change the pressure (measured at the condensor) [11:39]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the other one almost ended up in scenario where a girl burned down his condo, when she went unstable cause "My needs aren't being met". [11:40]
thestringpuller: i've srsly never seen a successful longterm harem in my meatwot. [11:40]
trinque: unstable way before almost burning a condo. [11:40]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: either visit a local school and take the ochem, or work through the usual practical exercises before you engulf self and others in a fireball from, e.g., 'bumping' (look it up) boiled solvent under vacuum [11:41]
mircea_popescu: uh. [11:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aaaaa... /me broke a half inch thick ceramic piece through pouring purified molten sulphur in there. TO CRYSTALIZE! [11:42]
PeterL: yeah, in college I compromised a couple vacuum manifolds by forgetting to add a stirbar to the flask before opening to the vacuum line [11:43]
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524360 << iirc dude's writing up his epic antarctica adventure, one or two pieces are out, but there's more to come i think. or maybe he's just ranting on twitter full time heh [11:43]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 13:46 mircea_popescu: sadly stopped a year or so ago it seems ? [11:43]
mircea_popescu: (sulphur is excellent material for crystall fucking around - nice complex crystall structure, low melting point) [11:43]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i broke same, with molten saltpetre [11:43]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i was like 11! [11:43]
asciilifeform: i - 8 [11:43]
asciilifeform: and those were the dayz. [11:44]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you probably would have better luck deprogramming the disney princesses. I haven't seen it personally done tho. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: fuck. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: just can't get a foot over this guy can i. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it's very simple : if the girl has anything to offer, the "disney princess" act is actually holding her back, and she'll drop it as soon as it's safe if she doesn't have anything to offer - ain't no one got time for that. [11:45]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: as i understand it, harem in usgdom consumes an entire fuel rod of mircea_popescu per week, or so. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: (no, "tits" aren't something to offer.) [11:45]
asciilifeform: i.e. you gotta be a saudi prince or the like [11:45]
asciilifeform: to avoid being disassembled for parts by the first soured patient [11:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "your enemy to love you" problem. it's a nonsensical endeavour. [11:45]
asciilifeform: quite possibly. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so invite him over. [11:45]
PeterL: Speaking of vacuum lines, you ever heard of a Wayda/Dye vacuum manifold? [11:47]
PeterL: As undergraduate, I worked under one of the co-inventors, Dye [11:48]
mircea_popescu: o.O [11:48]
mircea_popescu: good for you eh. [11:48]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-09#1339906 << see also thread. [11:48]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-09 22:16 ascii_field: j. strong's 'methods of experimental physics' covers the basics the whole b00k is somewhere w4r3z3d in the logz. [11:48]
asciilifeform: (for some reason the proper link to the b00k is not coming up in the search..) [11:49]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller et al: it is a 1940s volume, but still a classic, because it is from the tail end of the era when folks had to make ~everything with their own two hands. [11:50]
asciilifeform: including vacuum system. [11:50]
asciilifeform: and the vessels. [11:50]
* mircea_popescu dreams of a time perhaps not so distant in the future where "3d printers" will create chemlab equipment out of magnetic lines. [11:51]
mircea_popescu: imagine, a tablefull of glassware, all immaterial. [11:51]
thestringpuller: i'm looking forward to 3d printing computers [11:52]
PeterL: Dr. Dye was fond of blowing his own glassware, but was a lingering throwback of the previous generation, where they would calculate integrals by weighing the cut-out piece of graph paper (cause no computers yet) [11:52]
asciilifeform: ain't much 3d in computer, thestringpuller [11:52]
mircea_popescu: PeterL oh i saw the cut-out thing done! [11:52]
mircea_popescu: by sourdough-style math guy who had plotter connected to computer. which he used to plot. [11:53]
asciilifeform: PeterL: cheap - and, more importantly - borosilicate (a pain to rework) glassware - mostly killed 'blow yer own' in the '50s [11:53]
asciilifeform: but now that the 'cheap' and 'borosilicate' are going off the stage again... [11:53]
mircea_popescu: "and why does math lab need precision balance ?" "nevermind." [11:53]
asciilifeform: the old days - can come back. [11:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same reason it needed precision voltmeter ! [11:53]
asciilifeform: for the analogue comp. [11:53]
mircea_popescu: lol [11:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently this wasn't as nutty as it seems - for some reason driving the plotter was a lot cheaper than actually having the machine compute the integral. i dun recall the specificx. [11:54]
asciilifeform: analogue comp is serious bizniss: americans shared, e.g., nuke, with britain, but never the norden bomb-sight. [11:54]
asciilifeform: ~the~ analogue 'killer app' of its time. [11:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suddenly puts the japanese "music afficionados" in their proper context. cargo cult of something from the 40s. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: because there it DID motherfucking matter that the paper be smooth and even. [11:56]
asciilifeform: norden's sight worked well enough that it was not replaced until, iirc, early '70s... [11:56]
asciilifeform: don't underestimate analogue comp, when the job is to solve particular ODE, or the like [11:57]
mircea_popescu: the human body sure as fuck doesn't. [11:57]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445520 << see also thread. [11:59]
a111: Logged on 2016-04-04 16:30 asciilifeform: fwiw my grandfather spent a good chunk of his life on hydraulic analogue computerz. [11:59]
asciilifeform: http://idlewords.com/2012/02/bia%C5%82owie%C5%BCa_forest.htm << reminded me of mircea_popescu's boars! [12:16]
lobbes: asciilifeform: I've been searching logz for thread regarding modern AMD cpu being almost as subverted as Intel's. you wouldn't happen to have good reading on the subject handy, would you? [12:17]
asciilifeform: hmm [12:22]
asciilifeform: lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-27#1308869 << one thread [12:23]
a111: Logged on 2015-10-27 15:25 asciilifeform: there is literally 1 paragraph devoted to amd: [12:23]
lobbes: danke [12:23]
asciilifeform: lobbes: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/discussion/2016-April/010912.html << see also. [12:24]
asciilifeform: lobbes: http://support.amd.com/TechDocs/52740_16h_Models_30h-3Fh_BKDG.pdf << section 2.14 is afaik the ONLY public doc on amd's fritzchip [12:26]
asciilifeform: all 3 pgs of it. [12:26]
asciilifeform: this is not a bad time to add the detail that DOCUMENTED 'fritzchips' aren't even half the problem. [12:27]
asciilifeform: it's 'what you don't know', and 'what you know that isn't so', that is the real headache. [12:27]
asciilifeform: but at any rate, ALL current production x86, and MOST since 2011 or so, have always-on mystery cores that run ???. [12:28]
asciilifeform: and without magic init from which, the thing won't boot, or will wedge itself deliberately half an hour post-warmup (in intel's case.) [12:28]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: just started a fire [12:30]
thestringpuller: *sigh* i'm so bad at this chemistry thing [12:31]
asciilifeform: 'if at first you don't succeed, maybe mineclearing is not the career for you...' [12:31]
thestringpuller: fires don't always have to burn down the forest [12:32]
asciilifeform: house 3 blox from mine burned down last week, and i didn't even notice. [12:32]
asciilifeform: nfi how this was possible. [12:32]
thestringpuller: PeterL: I asked a friend who blows glass for a living, and he said nowadays it's more expensive to blow science-ware by hand than to get the mass produced stuff... [12:33]
asciilifeform: depends what, and where. [12:35]
asciilifeform: and whether you're a candidate for gasenwagen [12:35]
asciilifeform: (in, e.g., state of new york, unlicensed use of glassware (yes) is a criminal offense) [12:36]
asciilifeform: likewise, fraudulent 2000s american 'pyrex' (non-borosilicate! all that's left is the name) can cost you a great sum in hospital bill. [12:37]
asciilifeform: $s pyrex [12:37]
a111: 21 results for "pyrex", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pyrex [12:37]
asciilifeform: ^ see threadz [12:37]
jurov: how it's fraudulent? it's perfectly legal for pyrex brand owner to sell blown turds [12:41]
asciilifeform: bait and switch is a form of fraud, regardless of how strong a legal 'roof' the fraudster has. [12:42]
asciilifeform: the pyrex switcheroo was enabled by the fact of the two glasses being visually indistinguishable. [12:43]
asciilifeform: pyrex that doesn't withstand temperature shocks is as american as crapple pie. [12:45]
asciilifeform: tastes great with, e.g., airplanes that won't take off, pension funds that consist of /dev/null, and the rest of the rot. [12:46]
jurov: it's just fucking brand [12:46]
asciilifeform: the remnants of 'western prosperity' are made of precisely these chumpatrons, the items which are wholly worthless but continue to be sold as the genuine article, and ONLY A TERRORIST would try to distinguish. [12:46]
asciilifeform: jurov: go and try to buy actual borosilicate, e.g., teapot. [12:47]
asciilifeform: even in an antique shop, you're stuck with 'is it or isnnit'. [12:47]
asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu https://threatpost.com/gpg-patches-18-year-old-libgcrypt-rng-bug/119984 << the hannobockization is ready!!!1111 [12:50]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [12:50]
asciilifeform: and has of course replaced our piece 'everywhere that matters' (tm) [12:50]
asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/pub/20166313-pg1_2.png and http://www.loper-os.org/pub/20166313-pg2_2.png (depdfization of dorre and klebanov's report on gpg whitening idiocy) [12:56]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [12:56]
asciilifeform: http://formal.iti.kit.edu/~klebanov/software/entroposcope << klebanov's auditing tool thing. (teaser, apparently) [12:59]
asciilifeform: sorta like a special-purpose 'valgrind', for debugging rng. [13:00]
asciilifeform: liveth among you the hero who will get this fella to visit ? [13:00]
asciilifeform: i'd like to see what he's made of. [13:00]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524210 << wai, wai the waitening, mircea_popescu ? [13:06]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 12:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're on this btw, the way i want tmsr-rsa key generation to work is as follows : a contains a number of entropy bytes specified by user in tmsr-rsa.conf read whenever tmsr-rsa.conf specifies (such as urandom) b contains a base-tmsr string specified by user. c = base-tmsr(a).b p = nextprime(cut(sha512(c),257)) process is repeated for q = nextprime (cut(sha512(c'),258)) [13:06]
asciilifeform: whitening sux. [13:06]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not for whitening for acordeoning [13:08]
mircea_popescu: suppose i set my keys to be produced with 1mb of entropy. [13:08]
asciilifeform: xor lemma. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: none of your business and how you propose this to work ? [13:08]
asciilifeform: you waltz over the buffer. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: entirely open to that implementation also. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: as i say - sha512 is user defined. [13:08]
asciilifeform: straight waltzing is the only correct way [13:08]
mircea_popescu: i thought providing keccak as default is elegant but can also provide xoring scheme [13:08]
mircea_popescu: aite. [13:08]
asciilifeform: i.e. the only way that does not introduce a linkage between bit n and n+1. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm sold. [13:09]
asciilifeform: the fundamental psychiatric reason why folks like whitening, is, i suspect, a demon that wakes them up at night: [13:09]
asciilifeform: 'what if the wire frays and rng is feeding 000000...' [13:09]
asciilifeform: or similar. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: so you check [13:09]
mircea_popescu: like we did. [13:10]
asciilifeform: try suggesting this to typical luser, it is almost as if he had to open reactor containment vessel to check. [13:10]
asciilifeform: going by the reaction. [13:10]
mircea_popescu: apparently. [13:10]
asciilifeform: whitening is in a class of similar items, childhood fears coupled to faux techno-fixes, deserves own separate discussion one day imho. [13:11]
asciilifeform: (and needs a handy name perhaps) [13:11]
mircea_popescu: (caveat fanaticus : while you probably want some ent redundancy for your key, a whole mb for a few kb key is drastically overshooting it. diminishing returns clip any conceivable benefit past a factor of maybe 8) [13:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about dildo ? [13:12]
mircea_popescu: similarly hard but unsatisfying devices. [13:13]
asciilifeform: there is nothing dishonest about dildo tho. [13:13]
mircea_popescu: in and of itself, there's nothing dishonest about any code. now imagine dude who keeps putting up this pretense and keeps aluding to his skillz and hunk... then in bedroom he takes slippers off to reveal dildo ductaped on. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: much like that scene in pink flamingoes [13:14]
asciilifeform: lel [13:14]
mircea_popescu: dja see it ? [13:14]
asciilifeform: i must have seen a still [13:14]
asciilifeform: because the scene sounds familiar. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: pscho waters has a sausage tied with rope [13:14]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524497 <<< lol in similar what the fucks, anyone know about the lulz of california's "proposition 65" ? [13:17]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 16:36 asciilifeform: (in, e.g., state of new york, unlicensed use of glassware (yes) is a criminal offense) [13:17]
mircea_popescu: read up on that crazy shit sometime, it's epitomical for the current us. [13:17]
asciilifeform: i have megatonne of items with the idiocy stamped on the package. [13:17]
asciilifeform: it is quite impossible to forget about it. [13:18]
mircea_popescu: (short version : lawyer lobby added law on books that allows them to sue anything that doesn't have a warning label on there's 0 enforcement from anyone but the lawyer mafia and for that matter no penalty for mislabeling anything consequently all of california is today a huge sticker reading "this item is known to the state of california to cause cancer") [13:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well not everyone lives in the mordor swamps. [13:18]
asciilifeform: if only it were only ~in~ california ! [13:18]
asciilifeform: i've never set foot there [13:18]
asciilifeform: and still even humble tube of solder is stamped 'this product is known....' [13:19]
asciilifeform: because, see, it ~might~ be sold in ca. [13:19]
thestringpuller: cookin' in da pyrex isn't a thing anymore? [13:19]
mircea_popescu: "Miss out on Comic-Con? Relive all the action at Comic-Con with IMDb's Comic-Con 2016 Guide." << dude, if there's anything to miss it's the underage nuts, wtf is a guide gonna do. [13:19]
thestringpuller: so all these thugs turned rapper are lying to their constituents? [13:19]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see l0gz, this actually came up. [13:20]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1494311 << [13:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 16:28 asciilifeform: http://nowiknow.com/the-war-against-pyrex << for n000bz. [13:21]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "threatpost" dun load, so. [13:21]
mircea_popescu: never occured. [13:21]
mircea_popescu: and i also can't read "depdfization" any other way than "depizdification" [13:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c06bfd29-d998-41b6-a4c2-5c0148d3071c/?raw=true << if you must. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: i dun think i will, ty [13:23]
asciilifeform: not missin' anything. [13:23]
asciilifeform: (other than further spew to hang koch by) [13:23]
asciilifeform: the depizdification is worth seeing tho. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: i was reading it now [13:24]
mircea_popescu: honestly im not impressed with the whole scheme , whether fixed or not. [13:27]
asciilifeform: dafuq is 'fixed' whitening. [13:28]
asciilifeform: rather like 'healthy corpse' [13:28]
mircea_popescu: dafuq is any of that dumb shit and da fuck is 44+20+20 [13:28]
mircea_popescu: i went to math school, they never taught me that theorem. [13:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mechanical drawing of the stuttering whitener slide thing. [13:28]
mircea_popescu: so what is 44 ? [13:29]
mircea_popescu: is this twice as good as 22 + 10 + 10 ? [13:29]
asciilifeform: 'The more particular difference is that the first cycle (Figure 2a) deviates from the other cycles (Figure 2b). Here, the hash is computed from the bytes [L − 20, L) ∪ [0, 44).' [13:29]
mircea_popescu: why not make it 88 + 40 + 40 then and while on it, why not fuck their ugly fucking mother. [13:29]
asciilifeform: ask koch. [13:29]
mircea_popescu: so fucking strange for the sort of idiot who imagines "all people are equal" to constantly be finding SPECIAL integers. [13:30]
mircea_popescu: there's no fucking special integers. they're all equal. [13:30]
asciilifeform: dun forget the other half of the circus - [13:30]
asciilifeform: the audience. [13:30]
asciilifeform: the 'i do not expect to UNDERSTAND the code' is the enabling sin. [13:30]
asciilifeform: idiot who will spew rubbish, can always be found. [13:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform after the whole "oh, mp cares about beingmentioned on our obscure mail list" debacle coupla days ago, i actually had this measured. [13:31]
asciilifeform: audience - not. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: there is NO audience. at all. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: if one of these shits gets read by 3 people, it's a high water mark. [13:31]
asciilifeform: i was referring to the gpg users. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: when we link them they get 10x usual fare. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh you mean teh luserbase ? [13:31]
asciilifeform: aha. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: yawell. to quote from this great link, "I’m just back from ContainerCamp and Gluecon and I’m going to Dockercon next week. Really excited about the way the industry is moving - making everything simpler and more reliable. It’s the future!" [13:32]
asciilifeform: we lived with this shit. [13:32]
asciilifeform: koch et al did a thorough job gluing the nonsense on with broken glass. [13:32]
asciilifeform: https://underhandedcrypto.com/2016/08/17/the-2016-backdoored-cryptocurrency-contest-winner << meanwhile in the world of sport. [13:33]
asciilifeform: ^ complete with gavinism push [13:33]
mircea_popescu: "our sponsor zcash" ? [13:33]
mircea_popescu: idiots. [13:33]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha first prize by "our judges" to sole submission ? [13:34]
mircea_popescu: o wait, and the whole shit is a miserable vessenes spam domain trying to capitalize on underhanded c ? [13:34]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do you keep linking this irrelevant crap in here omg. [13:34]
asciilifeform: because it is illustrative. [13:34]
asciilifeform: circus has two ends. [13:34]
asciilifeform: blind - leading the blind. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: none of these humanizing metaphores apply. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: what blind ? they're not blind anymore than gut bacteria is blind [13:35]
mircea_popescu: they know what they like, and seek getting it. [13:35]
asciilifeform: and what is it that they like ? [13:37]
mircea_popescu: shit. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: gut bacteria, right ? [13:37]
asciilifeform: and hah, it ~is~ a blatant rip off from 'underhanded c', isnnit. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: yes. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: and do you know why it exists ? because it counts on grannies and alf to get confused by the content, as if words have meaning OF THEMSELVES, not of context, and click/spread the link. [13:39]
asciilifeform: barfalicious. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: understand : propaganda doesn't want you to agree. it just wants you to participate. dun matter so much what value you participate with, which is the point. [13:40]
asciilifeform: tru. [13:40]
asciilifeform: $s nonparticipation [13:40]
a111: 6 results for "nonparticipation", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=nonparticipation [13:40]
asciilifeform: or, from today's earlier link, 'On September 14, 1985, residents of the Polish city of Toruń watching the popular James Bond ripoff 07, Call In (in which a blond and ideologically correct Citizen's Militia officer fights crime from within a series of tight sweaters) were surprised to see the show briefly overlaid with block white letters reading "Solidarity Toruń: Boycotting the election is our duty," and "Solidarity Toruń: Enough [13:41]
asciilifeform: price hikes, lies, repression". Twelve days later, the same slogans appeared superimposed on the hated evening news. The dissident radio astronomers had struck again.' [13:41]
mircea_popescu: lol [13:41]
mircea_popescu: pity that all they find to do is herp the plebe song. [13:42]
asciilifeform: what would mircea_popescu have put in there ? [13:42]
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with "fuck you torun, none of you are smart enough to know how this was done." [13:42]
mircea_popescu: too long ? [13:42]
asciilifeform: too long-game. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: lol [13:43]
mircea_popescu: mkay. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: but really, the only message that's worth broadcasting is some variation of "fuck you, you're not good enough and i don't like you." [13:43]
mircea_popescu: talking of childhood fears. [13:44]
asciilifeform: what, exactly, will reading this on the surprise tv screen do to the typical 'patient' ? [13:44]
mircea_popescu: i don't care. [13:45]
asciilifeform: then why bother [13:45]
mircea_popescu: cuz i can, or somesuch. [13:45]
* asciilifeform asks emulated mircea_popescu , who answers 'from cause!11111' [13:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: familiar with 'captain midnight' story ? [13:50]
mircea_popescu: dun think so [13:51]
asciilifeform: satellite hijack. [13:51]
asciilifeform: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2229101/security/captain-midnight---no-regrets--about-jamming-hbo-back-in--86.html << [13:51]
asciilifeform: http://www.macdougallelect.com/bio.html << the man himself. [13:51]
mircea_popescu: ah ha [13:52]
asciilifeform: the man had ~nothing to say. and so today is remembered by asciilifeform and , idk, half dozen other weirdos. [13:52]
* mircea_popescu never gave a shit about hbo. [13:52]
mircea_popescu: it's like... midnight shopping channel decided to open a tcm competitor. [13:52]
asciilifeform: i dun think he picked hbo sat for any particular reason other than 'it had unsheathed arsehold' [13:53]
asciilifeform: *arsehole [13:53]
mircea_popescu: aha [13:53]
asciilifeform: incidentally, to this very day there are sats with ~0 authentication. [13:55]
asciilifeform: (why? ask the builders, not me) [13:56]
asciilifeform: from the commentz: [13:57]
asciilifeform: 'As a member of the team that caught MacDougall, I can say we figured it out in less than a week. He may not yet realize that he might not have violated any existing law at the time he did it -- even though FCC threatened prosecution and he then"copped a plea". The reason why 18 USC 1367 was soon passed was to remove the ambiguity in this area. So Mr. Smart Guy, you pleaded guilty to a federal misdemeanor that a decent lawyer might h [13:57]
asciilifeform: ave gotten you off the hook for and it only took a week to find you.' [13:57]
* mircea_popescu is so entranced with that circleci post he's out researching it, turns out https://aphyr.com/posts/335-tattoo << aphyr actually exists. [13:57]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guy's very representative got nothing to stand for and nothing to stand with. [13:58]
asciilifeform: precisely. [13:58]
asciilifeform: i meantion him on account of 'it is not enough to steal the microphone, also ought to have something to say.' [13:59]
asciilifeform: *mention [13:59]
asciilifeform: and that stealing microphone is not really so monumentally difficult. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [14:00]
asciilifeform: a few yrs ago, students in moscow got hold of a green laser projector, a few dozen watt, and lit up the american embassy at night. [14:01]
asciilifeform: what did they paint ? [14:01]
asciilifeform: obummer sucking off a banana. [14:01]
asciilifeform: mega-imagination. [14:01]
mircea_popescu: that's actually pretty good [14:01]
asciilifeform: it's a passing grade. [14:02]
asciilifeform: but who remembers today. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: way the fuck better than "polite" derp jamming hbo or whatever the fuck. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: obama. [14:02]
asciilifeform: i can see bush-II remembering the grenade in tbilisi [14:02]
asciilifeform: but obummer, banana ? [14:02]
mircea_popescu: or the shoe. [14:02]
asciilifeform: shoe - yes [14:02]
mircea_popescu: and yes. fucktard's as vain as they come [14:02]
asciilifeform: (the significance of the shoe is often lost on western folk) [14:02]
mircea_popescu: i dunno... they had my fair lady neh ? [14:03]
mircea_popescu: https://circleci.com/blog/it-really-is-the-future/ << a week later, retraction. [14:05]
mircea_popescu: to be perfectly clear, none of that stupid shit is "the future", nor even much of the present. [14:06]
mircea_popescu: there's no space in any conceivable future for "that whole docker and cointainer thing" nor actually for "apps". [14:07]
mircea_popescu: html5 had a fighting chance as "not just text" it lost. this shit is dumber still, with a larger ground to cover still, with less talent and intellectual capacity involved and with the corporate nonsense that formed the original impetuus, from apple "app store" to cisco via intel/amd fritzchips etc dying left and right. the bottom's already fell out of apple store, there's no revenue made, and all these idiots can go back [14:09]
mircea_popescu: to pretending they're painters to get laid. [14:09]
mircea_popescu: So reactions to Docker are not necessarily based on the technology itself. Most haters are not really reacting to Docker’s solutions to important and complex problems. Mostly, this is because those problems are ones you might not have noticed if you haven’t spent time scaling big systems. If you don’t intuitively and deeply understand what’s meant by “cattle not pets” << it is directly obvious to me what is meant [14:12]
mircea_popescu: by "cattle not pets", for the record there's a difference between the people who actually understand the problems involved and the inept clowd of usian aspie 14%ers who wish to pretend like they have big town problems, who knows, maybe someone gives them a big town salary. [14:12]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-27#811154 << see also naggum. [14:13]
a111: Logged on 2014-08-27 01:00 asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000×20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.' [14:13]
jurov: asciilifeform you forgot i have several actual borosilicate teapots, bohemian glass that claims to conform to ISO for borosilicate glass. and they sell to da US. it's in the logs [14:13]
mircea_popescu: eh fuck this, ima go blog it, too much log dumping. [14:13]
jurov: but complaining about pyrex is easier, I get that. [14:13]
asciilifeform: jurov: i have nfi what is sold in jurovlandia. perhaps it is genuine borosilicate, or perhaps just overpriced glass. [14:14]
asciilifeform: but here - it is largely absent. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: jurov believe it or not they export here. i've been buying exceptional lead glass wine/champagne etc stem glasses. [14:14]
asciilifeform: lead glass != borosilicate. [14:14]
asciilifeform: entirely other product. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform his argument is that it fits the spec for performance. which it does. [14:14]
jurov: yes it never broke due to heat/cold [14:14]
mircea_popescu: sold in the us as "swarovski crystals". [14:14]
mircea_popescu: one of the hugest scams of all time, my parents' house hosted numerous clear and colored bohemian glass pots, most a few lbs in weight [14:15]
mircea_popescu: i guess i lived in the swarovski prince of bell air's mansion. [14:15]
jurov: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=simax+kettle aciilifeform just buyu one of these and stfu. it's annoying [14:15]
asciilifeform: jurov: and how do i know what i get ? [14:16]
mircea_popescu: clink it. [14:16]
jurov: you try it [14:16]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun work on pyrex [14:16]
asciilifeform: jurov: can i find out nondestructively ? [14:16]
mircea_popescu: (seriously guise - buy bohemian crystal flutes then have fun with the girl making literal music together.) [14:16]
jurov: it will be non destructive. unless usg exchanges the teapot for non-borosilicate in transit, in what case you don't need it after all [14:18]
jurov: but you'll be vindicated they have blown the exact shape specially for you [14:20]
asciilifeform: lel [14:20]
mircea_popescu: if soviet us were any good, they'd just replace it with a normal china teapot [14:21]
mircea_popescu: as a "fuck you" [14:21]
mircea_popescu: o look.... no logs... [14:36]
asciilifeform: $s 94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157 [14:51]
a111: 3 results for "94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=94498898625323854064565881858724834160435948913137983974021999533025286133157 [14:51]
asciilifeform: hm [14:51]
asciilifeform: these seem to occur in clusters of no moar than 2-3 [14:52]
asciilifeform: (i've been shaping a mental picture of what kind of rng idiocy could lead to such a thing, to no avail) [14:52]
asciilifeform: i bet there's an algebraic trick that will yield ALL of these divisors. [14:53]
asciilifeform: (from the mexican routers or what it was.) [14:53]
asciilifeform: f(n) such that n is last bit of timer when it first powered on, or what. [14:53]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo send the man a congratulatory email ? since it turns out you linked him first. << Gotta catch up on log to figure out who I am congratulating on what. [14:54]
asciilifeform: in unrelated lulz, https://asciinema.org [14:57]
asciilifeform: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/former-nsa-staffers-rogue-insider-shadow-brokers-theory << in other 'proof' lelz [14:59]
asciilifeform: 'The source provided a military award as proof of his past employment, and multiple former intelligence sources who reviewed the award for Motherboard said it looks legitimate.' [15:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, got a link to the original discussion re merits of urbit right before you sold your whatever it was, battlestarisland [15:00]
asciilifeform: craig wright rolls in his grave [15:00]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, 1sec [15:00]
asciilifeform: 1 - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1352 << the sale [15:00]
asciilifeform: 2 - http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html?showComment=1263570771214#c6454142774827414532 << linked from same, pre-release thread [15:01]
asciilifeform: 3 - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390 - postmortem [15:01]
asciilifeform: there was also a lengthy googlegroup thread [15:01]
asciilifeform: where i finally barfed, decisively [15:02]
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/utp3H7F78so/Dt24fpiT3xcJ << part of it [15:03]
ben_vulpes: hrm. can't find the canonical ox and flies link [15:03]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aesop [15:03]
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/PvXo1t7uNrY/ik5e-9b-cNwJ << the sale itself. [15:04]
* thestringpuller thanks asciilifeform for inspiration for a rap song "war on pyrex" [15:04]
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/4B12WpF1rL0/hYF3YPuqvR8J << 'we dun want to make a bitcoin! usg will gas us' [15:04]
asciilifeform: ^ mega-thread [15:04]
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/PvXo1t7uNrY/RL7DLpg1v9QJ << continued. [15:05]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think that was all of it. [15:05]
thestringpuller: LOL. Da war on pyrex created more crime!!!!1 [15:06]
thestringpuller: WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED [15:06]
asciilifeform: 'CY, I've long admired your work, but pray answer me this: why on earth did you accept $millions in kleptocrat funding? How could this possibly serve the long-term interests of Urbit users? Now the same folks who ruined the Net - and virtually everything else that was ever good and bright - have a voting share! Or do I misunderstand? And if a strong USG were to take a dislike to Urbit, all the KYC clerks, bean-counters, and lawyers i [15:06]
asciilifeform: n the world could not save you. On the other hand, if the regime is weak (as suggested by the fact that it bowed to Bitcoin), these things are quite unnecessary.' << asciilifeform's q to mr mold. [15:06]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: sent [15:08]
BingoBoingo: Maybe he shows or doesn't, but at least either blogger or spam filter has been congratulated. [15:09]
asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/hanno/status/765545176018354176 << guess who likes to play victim now. [15:15]
asciilifeform: https://coldwardaily.com/2016/08/17/shadow-brokers-nsa-exploits-doubts-about-edward-snowdens-tweets << meanwhile somebody asks the obvious q. [15:17]
asciilifeform: '“That needs to proven before we take anything coming from that account as actually coming from the mouth of Edward Snowden, the person.”' [15:17]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ty. [15:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ty! [15:18]
mircea_popescu: uh google com wtf is that. not in my dns list. [15:19]
mircea_popescu: we had a convo in logs. [15:19]
asciilifeform: $s urbit [15:19]
a111: 168 results for "urbit", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=urbit [15:19]
asciilifeform: plenty [15:19]
mircea_popescu: ty [15:19]
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform's outings among the heathens, happened in heathendom. [15:19]
asciilifeform: with was (and afaik still is) the google faux-usenet thing. [15:19]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-02#473654 ftw. [15:19]
a111: Logged on 2014-02-02 03:29 herbijudlestoids: has anyone come up with any useful use cases for urbit? all i could think of was a mutt clone lol [15:19]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Jge7p << meanwhile the graphologists, astrologers, haruspicists, are busy busy bees!111 [15:21]
mircea_popescu: lmao. DOH. [15:24]
mircea_popescu: i dunno who took the russian-kalash-guy act seriously. [15:25]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical usaschwitz inmate is isolated enough that, e.g., the 'flying pistol copter' fella on youtube, was 'russian' enough to satisfy. [15:26]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you toured usa, how many folks could find your home town in the atlas ? [15:27]
asciilifeform: ( and the ones that ~could~... who were they ? old army officers ? ) [15:28]
mircea_popescu: i never had the curiosity to ask. [15:28]
asciilifeform: i did, it was a depressing exercise an' i stopped. [15:28]
asciilifeform: i shit thee not, even if you say, e.g., 'moscow', they will drop it somewhere near ankara or worse [15:29]
asciilifeform: there is no 'geography' subject in their primary school. [15:30]
asciilifeform: (at one point there was, they were asked to at least find the various states on a pre-drawn map.) [15:30]
asciilifeform: https://senderek.ie/research/pcp/release << was very interesting fella. where is he now ? [15:38]
asciilifeform: e.g., https://senderek.ie/research/pcp/release/pure.py [15:38]
mircea_popescu: til moscow is not near ankara. [15:38]
asciilifeform: and https://senderek.ie/research/pcp/release/read-pgpkey [15:38]
mircea_popescu: erdogan would beg to differ! [15:38]
asciilifeform: ('pcp' was an early attempt, it appears, at a stateless and rsa-only pgp replacement) [15:40]
mircea_popescu: who made it ? [15:42]
asciilifeform: senderek. [15:42]
asciilifeform: who, for all i know, is in valhalla's halls now. [15:42]
asciilifeform: https://senderek.ie/research/pcp/release/pcp-10.tar.gz << whole set. and pretty interesting read. [15:43]
asciilifeform: and, picture, a man distributing signed src. [15:43]
asciilifeform: in 2003. [15:43]
asciilifeform: (who else was ?) [15:43]
mircea_popescu: pretty good. [15:44]
asciilifeform: 'In summer of 2000, I had a look at the new key format PGP had introduced. In Europe a number of researchers voiced concerns about the new ADK feature that were routinely being ignored in the US, the home of PGP. This ignorance motivated me to look closer into the new PGP version and I discovered a serious problem with the way additional keys could be added without a user's consent. ' [15:44]
asciilifeform: lotsa weird on the site (e.g., crypto-in-php etc.) but it was, at least until recently, ~his own~, and not 'komyoonity'. [15:46]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, [15:48]
asciilifeform: http://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708902679&w=2 [15:48]
asciilifeform: circa '94! [15:49]
asciilifeform: 'Someone please prove me wrong, but I think there is a bug in the function mp_modexp_crt (RSA decryption and signing) in PGP23a's MPI library. Attached to this message is a program which demonstrates the bug. While testing Magic Money for lingering bugs, the client gave the error "Coin from server has bad signature!" I tried again with different coins, and the program worked. The proto.dat file had been cleared as the coins were rea [15:49]
asciilifeform: d, so there was no way to repeat the error. I set up a batch file to repeatedly cycle coins...' [15:49]
asciilifeform: http://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708902680&w=2 << the only reply. [15:50]
asciilifeform: Derek Atkins <warlord () MIT ! EDU> [15:50]
asciilifeform: ' ... I tried this on two different platforms with two different byte orders. In particular, I used a mips-ultrix and sun386i. The results, are the same, and show that there is no problem with PGP 2.3a, or, at least, I cannot reproduce your bug. Sorry.' [15:50]
asciilifeform: anyone remember what was 'magic money' > [15:50]
asciilifeform: ? [15:50]
mircea_popescu: yes. but wtf is this ? [15:50]
asciilifeform: http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~woodcock/cmsc482/proj1/magmoney.html << possibly this. [15:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was trying to learn the answer to that. [15:51]
asciilifeform: because i consider mpi bugs to be a thing of interest. [15:51]
asciilifeform: https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Digital_money/?f=magic_money.announce.txt << pretty lulzy. [15:52]
mircea_popescu: so do i. [15:52]
asciilifeform: dark age pseudobitcoin. [15:52]
asciilifeform: (does anyone find it interesting that modern gpg uses ~same mpi implementation as dark age pgp, but with massaged function names ('mp_' vs 'mpi_') ? [15:54]
asciilifeform: ) [15:54]
mircea_popescu: apparently they don't like mp. [15:55]
shinohai: >.< [15:57]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/uqRcV << soooo the shitstain knows no restraint [16:03]
asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.gita=blobf=dirmngr/dns-stuff.ch=191719e932e8995b7876fcffd0ff809c18f47334hb=refs/heads/STABLE-BRANCH-2-2#l102 << why is there even a 'tor mode' ? [16:05]
BingoBoingo: For placing suppositories, duh [16:16]
shinohai: suppositories or unlubed broom handles? [16:18]
trinque: $s from:asciilifeform the pig likes it [16:22]
a111: -1 results for "from:asciilifeform the pig likes it", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20the%20pig%20likes%20it [16:22]
trinque: well then [16:22]
trinque: $s the pig likes it [16:22]
a111: 2 results for "the pig likes it", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20pig%20likes%20it [16:22]
trinque: mental compression vs log search, fight! [16:23]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: What are the latter but a subset of suppositories? [16:24]
* shinohai thinks on that. [16:25]
BingoBoingo: $up fromphuctor [16:28]
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes. [16:28]
BingoBoingo: OMG Liberals are bodyshaming Trump now! Those Hippo-crits http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/18/12538672/nude-donald-trump-statues-union-square-los-angeles-indecline [16:35]
phf: -1 result eh [16:40]
shinohai: http://archive.is/Oj1JG "I'm sorry my shitty code fucked you all up, what's next?" [16:50]
trinque: "wow you guys. you know what I learned today?" (tm) (r) [16:51]
shinohai: Thanks Stephan for taking the time to use your new crayons to explain it all. [16:54]
mircea_popescu: again with the "blood sweat and tears" guy ? [17:28]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck told these idiots that their soul is worth anything or presents some sort of interest to anyone. [17:28]
shinohai: It's ok, he learned his lesson, won't happen again. [17:36]
mircea_popescu: your sarcasm can be heard from argentina. [17:38]
shinohai: Speaking of South American countries, should I suspect Columbia to be a horrid shithole? [17:40]
mircea_popescu: define shithole. [17:40]
shinohai: /suspect/expect/ [17:40]
shinohai: Like, hundreds of people on mopeds and muudy streets [17:41]
mircea_popescu: yes. [17:42]
* shinohai makes note to look into transportation modes further. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: o holy shit, heroku was acquired by salesforce.com in 2010. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: hence "nobody uses heroku" [17:43]
mircea_popescu: jesus these idiots couldn't be more transparent fi they tried. [17:43]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-text-and-the-piddly-recantion/ << Trilema - The text and the piddly recantion [17:46]
asciilifeform: Two Generals Problem << aaaaahaha [17:57]
* asciilifeform falls down [17:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re ^ - where was that trilema piece with the plugged bathtub ? [18:15]
asciilifeform: the one where 'removing the plug, or closing the water, is not ever to be considered an option, instead you are expected to build a raft from the flat tv' [18:15]
* mircea_popescu digs [18:21]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/ << the dns one apparently. [18:22]
asciilifeform: aha! [18:31]
asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b [18:32]
asciilifeform: e your living room. The correct solution in the case of the retarded girlfriend obviously is turning off the main and beating her black and blue, rather than entertaining her idiocy. Similarly in the case of the retarded Internet, the correct solution is turning off the main and beating these idiots black and blue, rather than entertaining their idiocy.' [18:32]
asciilifeform: this ^ is quite exactly a description of the 'problem solvers' in 'piddly recantation', e.g., 'docker' [18:33]
mircea_popescu: werd. [18:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you realise it's same author, one week apart. [18:33]
asciilifeform: waiwat [18:35]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/#footnote_1_65060 << him ? [18:35]
asciilifeform: or who [18:35]
mircea_popescu: site's listed, name's given, first line. [18:35]
asciilifeform: ah the recantation [18:36]
asciilifeform: yeah [18:36]
mircea_popescu: ah yes. yeah. [18:36]
mats: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/16/icahn-to-epa-youre-creating-the-mother-of-all-short-squeezes.html [19:47]
mats: after seeing the annual reports and recent activity, /me ponders buying IEP [19:48]
phf: $s from:blah foo [19:53]
a111: 166 results for "from:blah foo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Ablah%20foo [19:53]
phf: what [19:53]
phf: $s from:phf rX0ONv1IyCoB [19:53]
a111: 0 results for "from:phf rX0ONv1IyCoB", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20rX0ONv1IyCoB [19:53]
phf: ben_vulpes: i remember there was functionality to not expire wotpastes if they are in the log. what do you need me to provide you with in order to get that operational again? [19:55]
mircea_popescu: phf really, saving logged links has ~nothing to do with the (imo correct) functionality of pastes expiring [19:57]
phf: mircea_popescu: oh? that must've changed since last time we had conversation about it [19:57]
mircea_popescu: link ? [19:58]
ben_vulpes: phf: tbqh i was considering setting up a trilema style cookie l2 could get their hands on that would keep pastes around [20:00]
mircea_popescu: "Nothing about McMurdo improves with proximity. Up close, the station looks like a cross between an oil refinery and a struggling community college." << now i have what to link to when people ask me why i can't be arsed to antarctica. [20:03]
mircea_popescu: $up Lightsword [20:03]
deedbot: Lightsword voiced for 30 minutes. [20:03]
asciilifeform: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37114313 << meanwhile, in the muppet theatre.. [20:23]
asciilifeform: 'No one had been back to the Pole since the Amundsen and Scott expeditions of 1911, and it was the obvious prestige location in Antarctica. ' << nazi ahnenerbe begs to differ. [20:28]
mircea_popescu: that didn't happen [20:32]
* asciilifeform wasn't there. [20:32]
asciilifeform: http://everything2.com/title/Antarctic+hygiene << classic re antarctica (whole series of posts by same fella, eons ago) [20:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's neuschwabenland doing in the atlas then ? [20:36]
asciilifeform: if 'didn't happen' [20:36]
mircea_popescu: american hero nansen did it first. [20:36]
asciilifeform: ahahahaha lolk. [20:36]
mircea_popescu: also best and bigger. [20:36]
asciilifeform: "Россия — родина слонов" (tm) (r) [20:37]
mats: http://www.tricki.org/tricki/map [20:42]
mats: fields medal winner's list of patterns he matches against to solve problems [20:43]
mircea_popescu: not bad. at least the section on estimations is pretty solid. [20:45]
asciilifeform: mats: ever read g. polya's b00kz ? [20:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ironically, i am reading the man's name exactly. [20:46]
mircea_popescu: they use polya-vinogradov as an example for how to get rid of cutoffs [20:46]
asciilifeform: polya had a mega-classic for schoolboys, 'how to solve it', but lesser-known 'patterns of plausible inference' (2 volume thing) [20:46]
asciilifeform: the latter probably more interesting to adult [20:46]
phf: mircea_popescu: having hard time finding relevant bits, since thread diverged many times. a long standing criticism of dpaste was "all these pastes are going to make log not as useful", when ben_vulpes released his wotpaste there was discussion about expiration and how to mitigate it. fwiw i don't remember where it went from there [20:52]
mircea_popescu: iirc it went to "let them expire daily" [20:52]
mircea_popescu: they're two not overlapping tools. not all pastes necessarily end up in log [20:52]
mircea_popescu: something should be permanented for having being in the log, not for having been a paste [20:53]
phf: right right, so one option was to scan the log for all wotpaste's and only preserve those [20:53]
phf: since ben_vulpes can do that [20:53]
phf: of course another option is to add link downloader, to btcbase for example, but it's a can of worms, that i guess i will have to open.. [20:54]
mircea_popescu: the idea was to save ~all links~ [20:54]
* shinohai starts work on the most serene archives .... [20:55]
mircea_popescu: nothing specific about paste or otherwise. if i click on a link in an old article by that marciej dude, it comes out 404. which sucks. [20:55]
mircea_popescu: baring you actually being exciting from writing.. a... browser, i guess, the solution was to just archive.is all links and save the resulting zips [20:56]
phf: right, which requires archive.is level infrastructure [20:56]
mircea_popescu: well you can just piggyback [20:56]
phf: ah ah [20:56]
mircea_popescu: i mean... it won't work for alf, but maybe if he needs it a kind soul will unzip the files for him in the magic way [20:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that zip contained nothing but rubbish. [20:57]
asciilifeform: as far as i could tell. [20:57]
mircea_popescu: your tool failed to break it up into files, just dumped everything into one. [20:57]
mircea_popescu: apparently it's a known zip bug. [20:57]
asciilifeform: mno. [20:57]
asciilifeform: see log again. [20:57]
asciilifeform: i even posted the thing. [20:57]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-21#1508479 << [20:58]
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 22:30 asciilifeform: and has NOTHING in common with the jpegs or html in mircea_popescu's 32k zip [20:58]
phf: we just need to keep asciilifeform away from post 2005 technology [20:59]
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turds/1.zip http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turds/2.zip << samples. [21:01]
asciilifeform: (as found on jul. the 21st) [21:01]
mircea_popescu: well anyway. [21:02]
asciilifeform: see whole thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-21#1508474 . [21:02]
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 22:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's 32k zip unpacks great [21:02]
asciilifeform: archive.today literally served me a wholly unrelated thing as what mircea_popescu gets. [21:02]
mircea_popescu: be this as it may if it becomes a standard it'll either continue until we figure it out or mysteriously stop. [21:02]
asciilifeform: via whatever client. [21:02]
asciilifeform: (i even fired up a winblowz box) [21:03]
mircea_popescu: did it do anything ? [21:03]
asciilifeform: nope. same type of item. [21:03]
mircea_popescu: also... i actually use archive.is [21:03]
asciilifeform: it redirects to same. [21:03]
mircea_popescu: a ok [21:03]
mircea_popescu: so this guy ran a kickstarter campaign to pay for his trip to antarctica. [21:04]
mircea_popescu: i suppose it makes more sense than the dudes who chip in so that a model version of themselves bangs some chick on camera... [21:05]
mircea_popescu: re the getting diverged phf , i dunno what you answered to 2nd part of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523000 ? [21:07]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 05:52 mircea_popescu: o btw phf, you aware of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508571 ? you never said anything. more generally, do you see the value in a ticket set for a111 on mod6 's thing ? [21:07]
mircea_popescu: and in unrelatred lulz, reading through old logs re aws, we find http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-24#1249839 [21:07]
a111: Logged on 2015-08-24 01:51 asciilifeform blew an astonishing bag of usd when ran 'phuctor' on aws - and this in its mostly-useless and almost-trafficless first year and half of life [21:07]
asciilifeform: aha, it burned through a few hundy [21:08]
asciilifeform: largely by occupying disk, iirc. [21:08]
mircea_popescu: basically the "problem" idiots like paul whatshisface are imagining docker solves is entirely a business construct : idiots gave their neck away to "cloud" companies because "it will be cheaper", exactly on the model that produced "export jobs to china" [21:08]
mircea_popescu: then once the transition was complete and ensconced in culture, it suddenly... wasn't cheaper anymore [21:08]
mircea_popescu: and the sort of solution they contemplate is, of course, wait for it, drumroll.. MORE OF THE SAME. [21:08]
mircea_popescu: i know of nothing in nature more resilient than the idiot in his idiocy. [21:08]
asciilifeform: aws, recall, was for its entire existence marketed via 'giveaways', teasers, the usual fool-snares. [21:09]
mircea_popescu: i'm entirely at a loss as to what'd it be useful, outside of what Framedragger tried to use it for - which it apparently fervently defends itself against using for [21:09]
mircea_popescu: (an interesting pattern this - most us made artefacts feverishly defend themselves against being used in the one way they might make economic sense. starting with the citizenry, which somehow doesn't service arab cock all day.) [21:10]
asciilifeform: every inhabitant of usa eats no fewer than 9000 arab cocks per yer, at petrol station. [21:11]
mircea_popescu: as any whore will tell you, a blowjob doesn't count if you don't make cocksucker eye contact. [21:11]
mircea_popescu: it's a thing. [21:11]
phf: ah, i was away during that discussion and forgot to comment. i have it in my todo, but i need to testrun before commenting. it's obviously a good idea, i wish we had archive.is in-wot though [21:19]
mircea_popescu: me too. [21:20]
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1524918 [21:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 00:55 shinohai starts work on the most serene archives .... [21:21]
mircea_popescu: the task of getting html rendering to work on sanely instrumented platform is ... [21:23]
mircea_popescu: actually i don't even believe that can be done. [21:23]
mircea_popescu: the big dark secret nobody in the "we, the web community" wants to mention is that html5 essentially failed under cognitive load. they just couldn't do it. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: wasn't a matter of choice much like "we'll fart our way to mars" isn't a matter of choice. [21:25]
phf: i went through the whole exercise for my lisp based instapaper clone back in a day, so i have some of that code around. but it was neither efficient nor reliable (for example, closure html a lisp based html parser fails in all kinds of surprising ways when you throw random web at it) [21:26]
mircea_popescu: right. obviously something that will render hello world can be written ad hoc right here a standards-compliant renderer is perhaps a decent season project at a middle college (if they still exist) [21:28]
mircea_popescu: but neither of these is all that relevant. [21:28]
phf: i'm on board cause we def need to preserve the tumblr content [21:37]
* ben_vulpes has https://www.gigablast.com/ on the experiments list once these godforsaken hippies get their act together and card me at the dc [21:42]
ben_vulpes: could possibly serve both archive, index and lookup. [21:43]
shinohai: At least phf has priorities straight [21:46]
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1524957 << there is a notion, pernicious to the small-time and novice operators, that virtualization providers save time in infrastructure management. it's very much a "i just want to" write the software attitude. [21:48]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 01:08 mircea_popescu: basically the "problem" idiots like paul whatshisface are imagining docker solves is entirely a business construct : idiots gave their neck away to "cloud" companies because "it will be cheaper", exactly on the model that produced "export jobs to china" [21:48]
mats: asciilifeform: no, i will put it on my list [21:49]
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-24#1249839 << the other way of looking at this is that "if hosting costs are a serious/worrisome part of your bottom line as a web/mobile app operator either you fucked up and badly on provisioning, or you don't make enough money" [21:51]
a111: Logged on 2015-08-24 01:51 asciilifeform blew an astonishing bag of usd when ran 'phuctor' on aws - and this in its mostly-useless and almost-trafficless first year and half of life [21:51]
ben_vulpes: granted, phuctor ain't that. [21:51]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: was lunch money op. [21:53]
ben_vulpes: sure [21:54]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: point was that aws only ~feels~ cheap [21:57]
asciilifeform: like naggum's proverbial flying bathtub 'feels fast'. [21:58]
ben_vulpes: it's a fantastic little rpg! [21:59]
ben_vulpes: "oh wait costs in db are escalating, quickly get in there and learn the arcane aws-specific optimizations!" [22:00]
ben_vulpes: "aaaaa now we're serving too much shit from disk, quickly, put cloudfront in so we're not charged egress fees" [22:00]
ben_vulpes: it is the *perfect* make-work machine. [22:00]
ben_vulpes: much like docker, mongo, realm [22:01]
ben_vulpes: (phf would likely add datomic to the list) [22:01]
phf: all in day's work [22:40]
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-21#1349108 [22:44]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-21 05:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349033 << 'programmers get off on complexity the way weight lifters get off on weight' [22:44]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes quite exactly. a sort of "when soviet army provisions jets, it provisions tupolevs!" what the fuck difference does this make to wage slave trying to get from point a to point b ? [23:01]
mircea_popescu: but the whole fucking shebang is "feeling like a trader". hence what they want is "google infrastructure for the rest of us". because totally, google first built the infrastructure and THEN was google. not the other fucking way around, first came up with page rank and then had to burn the cash in some accountant-permissible way [23:02]
BingoBoingo: RE: Antarctica https://www.thefix.com/content/antarctica-alcohol-problem00437?page=all [23:02]
mircea_popescu: and in other division of belabour news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md1w288TYL1qfu1wko1_500.gif [23:04]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> it is the *perfect* make-work machine. << seems an exact description. [23:09]
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