Forum logs for 17 May 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/05/hopper-update-may-2019/ << lobbesblog -- Hopper Update: May 2019 [02:52]
stjohn_piano_2: turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency. [08:04]
stjohn_piano_2: i'll go through some dropped references from yesterday: [08:04]
stjohn_piano_2: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-16-may-2019#2535573 << i also completely forgot that GPG encrypts to a subkey, not to the primary, so of course the key ID would be different. [08:05]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:11 stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: gpg --list-packets shows that the key ID is C8EFFF13 in the OTP file. The key ID of my public key is 5991 52AC. Is this expected? (the fingerprint shown by deedbot in the earlier line is correct, though). [08:05]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913740 << an error, which i will have to go and fix. checkpoint 8 has been held back from "published" status, because there is a little bitcoin in the address derived from the checkpoint. [08:09]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:20 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/checkpoint_8 << whats this ? [08:09]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913779 << this should have been "decentralisation vs parsimony". the article in question is http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/ [08:10]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:27 stjohn_piano_2: you wrote an article once about parsimony vs efficiency, i think. [08:10]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913810 << this is very true. [08:12]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:34 mp_en_viaje: all sorts of unexpected things improve productivity, and the thing with improved productivity is that it's a very hard exponential -- cutting yet another 1% dead weight produces massive gains because it lowers effort under pleasure threshold. [08:12]
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time" [08:29]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:04 stjohn_piano_2: turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency. [08:29]
stjohn_piano_2: yum install qpdfview [08:31]
stjohn_piano_2: woops. wrong window. [08:31]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913854 << i've had a look through these. [08:51]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:46 asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: if you're a serious meat-ocr, asciilifeform has a tough cookie, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909563 , would defo pay for quality hand-entry of it [08:51]
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: what would the desired result look like? [08:52]
stjohn_piano_2: example: 1) numbered image files containing schematics 2) text files containing transcribed text 3) notes files containing the text on the schematics, with a reference to the corresponding image file. [08:54]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913861 << i was not contemplating doing the bulk of the typing myself. my preferred approach would be to find a russian speaker, get them to make a GPG key, do the bulk work, and send it to me for correction. [08:58]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 asciilifeform: i dare say this is not the 1st line of work i'd picture a fella with broken hands going into.. [08:58]
stjohn_piano_2: i studied some russian once upon a time, i could almost certainly correct it, with a little practice. [08:58]
stjohn_piano_2: re: broken hands. yes, i cannot sell sheer volume of typing, only reputable attention/focus/correction. [09:00]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913863 << makes sense. [09:04]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: rom all the pomp of "datafeed article 103," etc. it just clunks up your thought process. i know you don' tthink so, familiarity breeds a feeling of safety etc. but it's absolutely never worth it to have more shit than you need. [09:04]
stjohn_piano_2: hm. [09:04]
stjohn_piano_2: perhaps it's worth mentioning that, at every point when building edgecase, i asked myself "what should a reputable publishing system in the age of cryptography look like?". [09:05]
stjohn_piano_2: this led to: multi-author, every article is signed (optionally by the author as well), articles are in a linear order (hence "103"), unalterability means that additional authors can trust that the owner can't sabotage their work / code. [09:06]
stjohn_piano_2: i contemplated the possibility of 20-50 authors on edgecase. not people here now, who already have their own blogs, workers, etc, but new people, who perhaps don't want to run an entire blog, but would like to occasionally sign and publish their work. [09:07]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913866 << yes. [09:10]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: the other prong is that you don't actually have anything you can compete in. slave labour or no slave labour, she does it in five hours and you don't. [09:10]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913871 << have been pondering this question, and particularly the additional question "what answer would i like to be able to give in future?". [09:11]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:49 mp_en_viaje: so, what are you realy good at ? [09:11]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913902 << if anyone is interested, i also worked through verifying the deed: http://edgecase.net/articles/verifying_a_signed_deed_of_the_gpg_1410_source_code [09:14]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:01 stjohn_piano_2: my pgptron is gpg 1.4.10, compiled from mp's original source in deedbot. [09:14]
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really. [09:15]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914162 << i did not look at them in detail. i filed them under "investigate further when i buy one". [09:20]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 20:12 diana_coman: btw re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914012 -> I'd have thought you'd go straight for asciilifeform's TRNG schematics then, at the very least? [09:20]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914167 << i have no doubt that there are interesting problems in eulora, else you and mircea popescu would not spend so much time on it. unfortunately, i have to prioritise looking for paid work / finding a job. [09:21]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 20:17 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re programming otherwise, there's eulora with a shit-ton of interesting stuff to do but there like ~anywhere, it's always about digging deeper rather than looking wider as it were [09:21]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914325 << a distinction of sorts, i guess. "one body at a time, minefield is cleared". [09:23]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 22:37 asciilifeform: afaik 1st fella to press ~this~ particular 'anykey' .. [09:23]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914348 << ah ok. [09:24]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:29 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time" [09:24]
stjohn_piano_2: re how/why: due to rsi (repetitive strain injury), i currently run at 40-50% text production capacity, if i type slowly and steadily, with breaks. this is up from 0.1% capacity two years ago. trying to respond in real-time, as i did yesterday, is too high a rate for me to keep up. [09:26]
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914372 << yes. i'll go do that. [09:27]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:15 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really. [09:27]
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: where in the UK are you? [09:28]
stjohn_piano_2: a small village near newmarket, in suffolk. [09:28]
diana_coman: ah, Cambridge-inflated area [09:30]
stjohn_piano_2: yes [09:32]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914356 << plz don't bother unless you have one lined up already i will prolly do it with own hands sooner [10:30]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:58 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913861 << i was not contemplating doing the bulk of the typing myself. my preferred approach would be to find a russian speaker, get them to make a GPG key, do the bulk work, and send it to me for correction. [10:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914373 << i thought it was obv from the www, but must note that fg was sold out year+ ago . at some point we'll make the third gen. board , but not any time soon. danielpbarron however has a dealership and iirc still has a few in stock. [10:32]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:20 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914162 << i did not look at them in detail. i filed them under "investigate further when i buy one". [10:32]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914355 << schematics + text in e.g. svg vector graphic. [10:33]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:54 stjohn_piano_2: example: 1) numbered image files containing schematics 2) text files containing transcribed text 3) notes files containing the text on the schematics, with a reference to the corresponding image file. [10:33]
asciilifeform: no bitmaps. [10:33]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914368 << consider ada. ( ffa series imho makes a decent ada tutorial, and so does diana_coman's series ) [10:35]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:11 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913871 << have been pondering this question, and particularly the additional question "what answer would i like to be able to give in future?". [10:35]
diana_coman: I guess part of his problem is being in the UK+cambridge area really - prices&salaries are so inflated that he probably needs a salt-mine-irl place just to make ends meat and that makes it then very hard to have any time/brain left to actually do the meaningful learning he still has to do [10:41]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it aint impossible, e.g. asciilifeform manages. [10:42]
asciilifeform: ( afaik similar level of inflatola here ) [10:42]
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: are you actually tied to the UK? and anyway, what sort of job/where are you looking for one? [10:42]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: for one thing you already have skills he doesn't yet seem to have and for the other thing you constantly say it yourself that at times there is no juice left for ffa /similar. [10:43]
diana_coman: but sure, not saying it's impossible, no. [10:43]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: imho it is achievable objective, re salt mines, to have ~some~ juice remaining ~sometimes~ . [10:45]
asciilifeform: ( even auschwitz had an orchestra... ) [10:47]
diana_coman: sure onth look at the rather long-list of people that seemed to manage to do it for a while but only for a while. [10:47]
asciilifeform: yea i suspect e.g. Mocky currently in 1 without an orchestra.. [10:47]
asciilifeform: fwiw stjohn_piano_2 , unlike many prev. noobs, seems to have the virtue of patience. [10:49]
diana_coman: moreover, while it is doable (like ~anything else really), it's hard to really see the reason to *choose* to do it when one hasn't yet been sucked into it and stjohn_piano_2 strikes me as trying to NOT get sucked into it. [10:50]
asciilifeform: right [10:50]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/another-cisco-road-to-root-found-in-the-wild-while-anti-huawei-executive-order-published-in-us/ << Qntra -- Another Cisco Road To Root Found In The Wild While Anti-Huawei Executive Order Published In US [10:54]
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914363 << if you haven't already read, you may be interested in ben_vulpes' classic likbez on v [12:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:05 stjohn_piano_2: perhaps it's worth mentioning that, at every point when building edgecase, i asked myself "what should a reputable publishing system in the age of cryptography look like?". [12:42]
lobbes: also, welcome! may your studies be fruitful [12:43]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914364 << this is quite similar to the direct ancestor of v , jurov's trb mailing list system . [13:10]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:06 stjohn_piano_2: this led to: multi-author, every article is signed (optionally by the author as well), articles are in a linear order (hence "103"), unalterability means that additional authors can trust that the owner can't sabotage their work / code. [13:10]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914370 << pretty great piece. hand-cranked verification of mp's gpg1.4.10 tarball deed . [13:14]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:14 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913902 << if anyone is interested, i also worked through verifying the deed: http://edgecase.net/articles/verifying_a_signed_deed_of_the_gpg_1410_source_code [13:14]
asciilifeform: sept. 25 , '18 . [13:15]
asciilifeform: fella defo lurked for a good while, and attentively. [13:16]
asciilifeform: http://edgecase.net/articles/ << lotsa classic eng. lit of various vintages, transcribed, in there. [13:19]
* asciilifeform will take closer look at ^above when hands less full [13:20]
asciilifeform: http://edgecase.net/articles/how_i_bought_and_stored_some_bitcoin << also notbad, his walletron alluded to in prev thrd. [13:21]
asciilifeform: 'Roll the five dice ten times on a flat, even surface, writing down...' [13:22]
whaack: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-13#1913067 << I am considering making a trip down to Uruguay some time in October. By that time I should have some fiat saved up to live frugally for a ~year, and I'll be done with current work/family obligations. [13:39]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-13 18:34 BingoBoingo: lobbes: Well, if you want beaches November to Early December is the time. Late January on into the summer heat makes the cyanobacteria bloom. Late December to Mid January is the tourist high season. [13:39]
whaack: But I’m not quite sure what I should do with my life. I am considering one of the following: staying in NYC and getting a “linkedin” job for 1-2 years, creating a base in some cheap rural surf part of CR, or moving to a Spanish speaking city. [13:41]
whaack: I would greatly appreciate the advice of the republic in these matters. I'm 25 and my main priorities are to fix my ESLness through learning Spanish and to have time to get myself an _actual_ cs education. [13:47]
asciilifeform: whaack: in your position, i'd focus on getting out of reich 1st can 'book larnin'' 2nd. [13:47]
asciilifeform: the longer yer in, the harder to break out [13:48]
asciilifeform: and best way to learn lang, is to live & conduct biz where people speak it, this is gold standard for subj [13:50]
asciilifeform: 'cs education' is, believe, 9000x easier, than to try an' escape reich as old man [13:54]
whaack: alright ty. I will drop the nyc linkedin plan then, and consider ditching my obligations in order to leave even sooner. related to cs I'm chewing through SICP, just published http://ztkfg.com/2019/05/sicp-21-solutions-introduction-to-data-abstraction/ and should be done with 2.2 exercises shortly. If i'm off course with my priorities on this front plz let me know [14:10]
asciilifeform: whaack: if yer making piles and piles o'dough in reich, and ~very~ disciplined, it can theoretically be a thing to do, save it up an' buy a block of flats in BingoBoingostan or similar. but i hesitate to recommend to anyone to sit in reich a single day longer than can be helped [14:12]
asciilifeform: it rots people from inside. [14:13]
asciilifeform: mp described in detail this subj, better than i could ever hope to [14:15]
BingoBoingo: whaack: I'd recommend if you come to Uruguay you don't spend the whole year test driving the country without a solid job offer when there's other parts of LATAM to explore. [14:29]
BingoBoingo: But if you are mining LinkedIn et al for jobs, it probably wouldn't hurt to look down here. [14:34]
BingoBoingo: The surf part of Uruguay is out east [14:56]
whaack: I wasn't implying that I would test drive Uruguay for a year. I would try it for 1-2 months first of course. [15:03]
BingoBoingo: Ah. Anyways, I know a good hostel, which in Uruguay still means you'll be in a foreign language space most of the time. [15:05]
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914423 << i don't get it, what's inclined, bumpy surface gonna do ? [16:51]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 17:22 asciilifeform: 'Roll the five dice ten times on a flat, even surface, writing down...' [16:51]
mp_en_viaje: whaack: alright ty. I will drop the nyc linkedin plan then << nyc is a terrible place to stay in any case. if you're not making bank on wallstreet, you have no excuse to be there and even then, it's an excuse. if you're gonna linkedin, do a basic "what job pays - what single family ~house~ costs to buy in location.". if job doesn't pay over what loan would cost you, it is not a job, whatever they call it. [16:56]
mp_en_viaje: eg, https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5034-64th-St_Woodside_NY_11377_M30426-76388?view=qv vs https://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=22d3d5270a545891&fccid=c1a7c6d77658a22d&vjs=3 [17:01]
mp_en_viaje: you then put the 898`00 into http://www.interest.com/mortgage/calculators/mortgage-calculator/ to find out that over 10 years fixed 5% interest rate you have to pay 9,524.68 monthly (funny how they quote the rates in monthly and the salaries in yeary, huh), which comes to 114296.16, which is 14701.16 a year MORE than what the Representative of the Director General to the United Nations, who provides leadership and professional d [17:04]
mp_en_viaje: irection to the staff and operations blablabla makes. [17:04]
mp_en_viaje: therefore such a person can't afford to live in queens. [17:04]
mp_en_viaje: whatever, woodside. [17:04]
mp_en_viaje: by following this procedure you ~might~ find some combination that works but by not following this procedure all you'll find is alf's rut. [17:05]
* mp_en_viaje always suspected they teach these things in hs but never actually checked. [17:14]
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: guess what else they taught in ameri-hs (e.g. 'if you put in 100 $ , yr later can have 105' , and other meanwhile-retracted 'communism by 1980' promiseisms ) [18:19]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914445 << pretty lulzy detail in there : >> 'a tax-free annual net base salary' . wonder how this worx. [18:22]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 21:04 mp_en_viaje: you then put the 898`00 into http://www.interest.com/mortgage/calculators/mortgage-calculator/ to find out that over 10 years fixed 5% interest rate you have to pay 9,524.68 monthly (funny how they quote the rates in monthly and the salaries in yeary, huh), which comes to 114296.16, which is 14701.16 a year MORE than what the Representative of the Director General to the United Nations, who provides leadership and professional d [18:22]
asciilifeform: incidentally fwiw the shack asciilifeform lives in , would cost ~2y of his pay to buy. but i ~dun want~ to buy it, why would i want to buy a decaying cardboard-an'-siding thing. [18:24]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914449 << i know a whole platoon of folx , in meatspace, in deeper holes ( e.g. mortgageisms, alimonies, childrenz, 'student loans', drink. ) but there is ~always~ somewhere a deeper hole to be found than whichever . [18:27]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 21:05 mp_en_viaje: by following this procedure you ~might~ find some combination that works but by not following this procedure all you'll find is alf's rut. [18:27]
asciilifeform: i imagine all of the holes look quite similar from mp_en_viaje's olympus tho -- sorta like stones on the ground, mountains to ant, all look ~same from man's height [18:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914441 << this is good q imho. the only reason i can think of for 'throw dice on flat table', is to avoid 'came to rest sharp edge up', which can introduce 'must either throw again, or pick between numbers by hand ' etc [18:33]
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 20:51 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914423 << i don't get it, what's inclined, bumpy surface gonna do ? [18:33]
trinque: whaack: more important than where you haul your ass is what you're going to do when you get there. [19:17]
trinque: republic is scant of profit centers [19:17]
trinque: I could e.g. make deedbot wallet exorbitant for friends, and all this would gain me is beer money and fewer friends. [19:18]
feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3256 << Loper OS -- 25 Years of Loud, Expensive Space Heaters. [19:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: i once attended a gathering of 'writers'. one unusually introspective type uttered phrase 'do you all understand that we're competing for each other's beer money' [20:23]
asciilifeform: verily it sounds as nutty as it was, but they were hoping to, believe or not, 'live off writing books'. in usa, no less. [20:25]
asciilifeform: ( i've met 'fresh off the boat' 'was physicist, now cabbie' emigres, who suffered from this delusion. but ~these~ were not emigres... ) [20:26]
asciilifeform: see also e.g. [20:41]
a111: Logged on 2018-09-08 15:52 asciilifeform: paulgraham -- before turning into the infamous huckster -- had a piece where 'which biznis should you get into if you LUVV gardening?' '...recovering data from damaged hard disks!' [20:41]
mod6: Evenin'. I've built trb on cuntoo with ave1's 20180924 tools, with rotor only. Quick test shows pulls connects, pulls blocks. [20:46]
asciilifeform: mod6: plox to detail ( e.g. if on musltronic cuntoo, why needs 'rotor' system ? it existed only to build musltronic gcc 1st, and ~then~ trb, on heathen envirs , recall ) [20:47]
asciilifeform: ( ... or didja substitute ave1's for rotor's ..? ) [20:48]
mod6: I used diana_coman's vtron build with the same. Pressed the (yet unverified by lord keccak vpatch bundle that I created in January) keccak tree, made the changes in the makefiles, etc. Have a vpatch. [20:48]
asciilifeform: mod6: this part makes sense. but i'm curious re the apparently redundant piece [20:49]
asciilifeform: ( or do i misread ? ) [20:49]
asciilifeform: cuntoo, per my current understanding, obsoletes 'rotor' entirely (by doing same thing to ~entire system~ right off the bat) [20:50]
mod6: I ran into some trouble with BDB along the way because of a relocation record. '.rodata.values.2406' [20:50]
asciilifeform: interesting : this happens on ave1's gcc, but not orig rotor's ?! [20:51]
mod6: So I ended up adding '--disable-shared' to the BDB Makefile portion. [20:51]
mod6: That seemed to resolve the problem. Let me do a wotpaste of the vpatch so you can see what I've done. [20:51]
asciilifeform: mod6: 1st pleez say, under which gcc you get this, and under which -- not [20:52]
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/olwpU/?raw=true [20:53]
asciilifeform: mod6: i see what you did, but under which gcc got the eggog ?? [20:55]
mod6: asciilifeform: I changed all of the CC, CXX, LD to point at all of the binaries located in the tarball I extracted from the build of Ave1's GNAT, like this one: /opt/20180924/x86_64-linux-musl-native/bin/gcc [20:55]
asciilifeform: i may be thick, but it is not evident from the patch [20:55]
asciilifeform: aa [20:55]
asciilifeform: interesting, apparently ave1's demands 'disable-shared' in some yet-unknown case, to actually build static cppism [20:56]
mod6: it does seem that way, ya. [20:57]
asciilifeform: ( previously thought that it ~always~ builds statics ) [20:57]
asciilifeform: at least seems to be the case for ada projs. [20:57]
mod6: I've taken notes, I'll write up something on my blog as soon as I can. Just wanted to share the progress here. Obv. bunch more testing, etc. [20:58]
asciilifeform: pretty substantial find, mod6 . ty for documenting. [20:59]
mod6: I hope I'm not doing anything redundant really. The Makefiles itself take care of the compilation of Boost/BDB/OpenSSL. The one thing that I still need from the rotor.tar.gz is 'openssl-004-musl-termios.patch' [20:59]
mod6: Otherwise, the 'rotor.sh' and 'rotor_bitcoin_only.sh' are not actually utilized. So we could cut those loose too, if desired. [21:00]
asciilifeform: it makes sense now, you kept only skeleton from 'rotor'. [21:00]
mod6: *nod* [21:00]
mod6: Anyway, I'm gonna grab some food here. I'll work on a write up this weekend among other things. o7 [21:02]
trinque: I'd love to see a trb ebuild come of this mod6 [21:02]
asciilifeform: ^ [21:02]
mod6: trinque: We'll get there. [21:02]
mod6: Thanks gentlemen. bbs. [21:03]
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