Forum logs for 16 May 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
ben_vulpes: and yes asciilifeform mircea_popescu can i get a quote for 96 fg or 100 if that's a more convenient batch size? [00:00]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have vendor quotes pending for 100 units [00:01]
asciilifeform: incl from manufacturer [00:01]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nifty, keep me poasted [00:02]
asciilifeform: will [00:02]
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813642, an initial readme here: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sb5zm/?raw=true [00:18]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 19:51 diana_coman: ave1, if I want to test your gnat-building script what steps should I follow so that I have at the end of it maximum info re what works/doesn't and in what context exactly? [00:18]
ave1: note that the script creates cross-compilers first [00:18]
ave1: so, 'aarch64-musl-linux' is x86_64 exe and created aarch64 static bins [00:18]
ave1: the static binaries, being static, run on all linuxes be it glibc or musl [00:18]
ave1: the cross-compilers are then used to make 'native' compilers [00:18]
ave1: so the aarch64-...-native run on aarch64 and are static [00:19]
ave1: it does not matter if the linux is glibc or musl, I tested also on a clean ubuntu arm64 image [00:19]
ave1: But ofcourse only for the statically compiled binaries [00:20]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, theres no more fgs. [00:32]
asciilifeform: ave1: plz see log, in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813808 [00:32]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 21:53 asciilifeform: but his aarch64-linux-musl is... x86-64 [00:32]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: for the love of all that is holy i hope you mean "pizarro bought all teh extant fg" and not "all the fg that will ever be already are" [00:35]
mircea_popescu: the former, the former. [00:36]
mircea_popescu: we'll have to fabricate more which is in the early stages. [00:36]
ben_vulpes: right right well knowing that we booughtcha out i'm asking for a quote hoping (since confirmed) that a new run was in the works or to get one underway [00:37]
mircea_popescu: mind also that 100 fgs are somewhat expensive and you're cash starved. neither for time nor for money do you want to marry the rockchip pile to fgs [00:37]
asciilifeform: iirc dpb still has some in stock [00:37]
ben_vulpes: scratch that because we need fg i'm asking for 'em. [00:37]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: those were running at a what 4x markup or something stiff last i saw? [00:38]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, incidentally, wouldn't we be better served by making a proper run, 500 say ? [00:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: really i was hoping for next run to be the MB/sec lyso crystal fg. but, potentially, yes [00:38]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly, it can wait for the better model. not like he's ~without~ fgs. [00:39]
asciilifeform: aha [00:39]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what fraction of the plant do you figure should be equipped? [00:39]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: paying buyers, as they come [00:40]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and what, ship 'em onebyone? [00:40]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, it's a significant chunk of the cost of the rc, you realise ? YOU should be answering this, on the basis of, what you can sell. [00:40]
mircea_popescu: you already have a pile of what, 50 or so ? [00:40]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no, from current stock [00:40]
mircea_popescu: you got three items, shared, rc, rc+fg. you tell us, which sells in what proportion to what. [00:41]
ben_vulpes: ya reasonable, will answer on the next context switch [00:42]
* asciilifeform bbl,bed [00:42]
mircea_popescu: otherwise, nsa is not adverse to making a new run, but it will take a while. [00:43]
ben_vulpes: noted ty [00:45]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356068 << was this ever broken down ? so 800 per u, 100 per chip, and 2000 transport coming to (800*2+100*96 + 2000) = 13200 ? [00:46]
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-15 16:21 ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356051 << ~2.75 BTC at ~current rates gets 4 chassis with 96 total rockchippen, includes 1 delivery run per chassis. [00:46]
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-15 15:37 mod6: ah, maybe that as for 96. anyway, will wait for ben_vulpes [00:46]
mircea_popescu: fwiw, i see the ROC-RK3328-CC at ~40 to maybe as high as 55 depending on quantity. 100 in one batch should be about 4000 realistically. [00:51]
ben_vulpes: ~112 per RC, 2500 transpo, 1k for chassis, 4 chassis, 17,252 [00:53]
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt [00:53]
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes. [00:53]
ben_vulpes: !W (+ (* 112 96) (* 4 1000) 2500) [00:53]
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: 17252 [00:53]
ben_vulpes: conservative estimate [00:54]
mircea_popescu: why is the rc about 250% ? [00:56]
mircea_popescu: and why is the chassis 1k ? am i missing something besides "aluminum" ? and why is the bitcoin 17252/2.75 = 6273? [00:56]
mircea_popescu: the " the price inevitably dips" theory works A LOT better if it doesn't have to dip under 6k. [00:57]
ben_vulpes: i haven't updated the rc price since the pilot run, and that number assumed 1 transportation run per chassis since i'd not gotten the refutation of that number until just now. [00:59]
ben_vulpes: i'll rerun this all right now [00:59]
mircea_popescu: the cheaper you get your stuff, you understand, the more your intaingibles and equity lines are worth. [01:00]
mircea_popescu: absolutely fine, if not outright premier way to maximize shareholder value. [01:00]
ben_vulpes: i'd rather see the price estimate go down as i tighten numerical accuracy than up i've no desire to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6q4n5TQnpA [01:01]
mircea_popescu: there's that. [01:02]
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform is nsa fabricating chassisen for pizarro ? or is asciilifeform of his own independent self ? [01:03]
ben_vulpes: unpleasant to run an estimate that comes out kind of marginal and watch hopesndreams go up in smoke as reality sets in [01:03]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, it's a tight rope, either way can get unpleasant. [01:04]
mircea_popescu: that's why it's important to run documented estimates rather than either loose or tight estimates. [01:04]
ben_vulpes: sure, setting wrong expectations with scary large numbers has its own failure modes [01:04]
* ben_vulpes tightens [01:08]
mircea_popescu: document, that's the right move. "here's an amazon page link, https://www.amazon.com/Libre-Computer-ROC-RK3328-CC-Renegade-Ethernet/dp/B078RMQYHS and here's some other provider https://www.loverpi.com/products/libre-computer-board-roc-rk3328-cc on which basis I'm guessing we should get the boards at around 4k total here's why i think the chassis costs so much here's why alf's delivery run need not include only 1k in airfa [01:12]
mircea_popescu: re but also a week's stay, like if rich nsa is paying him a little vacation. altogether it comes to this much on the basis of those assumptions" and so on. [01:12]
ben_vulpes: i had this in i suppose a too-terse form the other day shall document with words and links. [01:18]
ben_vulpes: if any of the mpwpists in teh republic can lend a hand, i could really use it in getting urls that don't have index.php in them [01:26]
trinque: ben_vulpes: you're welcome to snag the /home/trinque/www/.htaccess [01:30]
ben_vulpes: neato trinque [01:42]
ben_vulpes: so i guess that i have to then write a regex to capture all of the old /index.html/y/m/d/post, redirect 'em to /y/m/d/post [01:48]
ben_vulpes: well i got the rewrite, but can't get mpwp to serve at /y/m/d/post [01:57]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, what's in your settings ? [02:05]
mircea_popescu: specifically wp-admin/options-permalink.php [02:06]
ben_vulpes: i have the permalink structure as /index.php/year/month/day , but when i switch it over to /year/month/day it 404's [02:06]
mircea_popescu: ie you clicked the "day and name" item ? [02:07]
ben_vulpes: correct [02:07]
mircea_popescu: hm. is your path-to-wp set incorrectly ? [02:09]
ben_vulpes: where is that? [02:09]
mircea_popescu: options-general.php address url, two fields. [02:09]
ben_vulpes: ah, pizarroisp.net [02:11]
ben_vulpes: i think that's correct [02:11]
mircea_popescu: "http://pizarroisp.net" for both ? [02:11]
ben_vulpes: yup. [02:11]
mircea_popescu: it is possible your theme is not supportive of your directory structure. try "custom structure" = "/%year%/%postname%/" ? [02:12]
ben_vulpes: nope [02:15]
ben_vulpes: it tries to redirect to what the right url should be, though [02:15]
ben_vulpes: however 404's. [02:15]
mircea_popescu: i expect your htaccess is incorrect. [02:16]
ben_vulpes: quite possible, i'll look at some others tomorrow. [02:17]
ben_vulpes: miserable problem. here's something more interesting, a documented estimate http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rockchipestimates.org [02:17]
mircea_popescu: other than that, did you fuck anything to include "index.html" ? [02:17]
mircea_popescu: could textfiles be .txt ? [02:18]
ben_vulpes: sure [02:18]
ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rockchipestimates.txt [02:19]
mircea_popescu: !!up can [02:19]
deedbot: can voiced for 30 minutes. [02:19]
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt [02:19]
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes. [02:19]
mircea_popescu: !W (+ 1500 200 (* 5 150) (* 4 (+ 200 400 100 (* 28 (+ 35 1.0 6.89 34.99))))) [02:19]
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 13972.561 [02:19]
ben_vulpes: i'm running out of steam, will have to resume tomorrow unless mircea_popescu has pressing qs or comments [02:21]
mircea_popescu: no pressing. [02:21]
ben_vulpes: evening then [02:21]
mircea_popescu: but for tomorrow : 28 per chassis then ? [02:21]
lobbes: aye. I can confirm this is outside of my eating capacity /me can only really swing the small-potato ad-hoc buys >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814038 [02:28]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 03:39 ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-16#356543 << i've got folks in-wot i've already pushing btc to over amazon i'm pretty comfortable with orders in the range of 500-2000 usd what i'm looking for are folks that want to eat on the order of 10kusd of btc every month or so, that's the comfortable headroom i'd like [02:28]
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-16 02:22 lobbes: but yeah, I'm almost always interested if pizarro needs some lulazon materials ordered [02:28]
* lobbes likewise, off to bed [02:28]
mircea_popescu: !!up diginet [03:12]
deedbot: diginet voiced for 30 minutes. [03:13]
diginet: what is this channel [03:13]
diginet: I found it while googling some Fortran stuff [03:13]
mircea_popescu: do you see the topic ? [03:14]
diginet: yes, that just made me more confused [03:16]
mircea_popescu: well, so read the logs etcetera. [03:16]
mircea_popescu: it's not the sort of question that you can answer for yourself in a minute. [03:17]
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814099 <- hm, at least the one asciilifeform obtained did not run on my rockchip (arm arch) so I might need to look deeper into this as to why it didn't at any rate: mind adding to your post the obtained gnat binaries so I try with them directly from you and then report what fails if anything? [03:21]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 04:19 ave1: it does not matter if the linux is glibc or musl, I tested also on a clean ubuntu arm64 image [03:21]
ave1: diana_coman, Sure no problem, I'll put it on the site and send a link. Which one did you try? [04:18]
diana_coman: ave1, see the issues in log here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813795 [04:19]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 21:50 diana_coman: and fwiw I tried running from there also ./aarch64-musl-linux-cpp -> same result [04:19]
diana_coman: basically the non-native was not arm the native at least ran but then the script failed anyway [04:20]
diana_coman: I did not investigate further but I can do that [04:20]
ave1: yes, the non-native is a cross compiler, so run on x86_64 and compile for aarch64 [04:23]
diana_coman: aaa, so it's x86_64_for_aarch64 [04:24]
diana_coman: got it [04:24]
ave1: yes, the original scripts only produced cross compilers, and the new ones now also create "real/native" compilers [04:25]
ave1: I will update the directory names as this is now confusing [04:25]
ave1: btw, I've not tried running the scripts with the generated native compilers, I always start with the binary from adacore [04:25]
ave1: I would be interested in how the scripts failed on your side [04:26]
diana_coman: well, I was testing so at least tested it to break it, ofc :P [04:26]
diana_coman: sure, I'll paste the stuff today and ping you [04:27]
diana_coman: ave1, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/66jDf/?raw=true [04:32]
diana_coman: it seems it wants --host to cross-compile the x86 [04:33]
ave1: link is here: http://ave1.org/tarpit/muslaarch64-linux-musl-nativeada.tar.gz [04:51]
ave1: 223b353c4c0299345c13c2abaea9a5e779878b22bd49c8d93a726075a429db8453a45b2fcbeb1d18a1bc282a0e51f695e62dd23cd8b35ca093dd7859caf5dc0a muslaarch64-linux-musl-nativeada.tar.gz [04:51]
ave1: sha512sum [04:52]
diana_coman: thanks, I'll try it [04:52]
ave1: as for the error, can you go to build/build-bootstrap/binutils-2.25.1/build1 and paste the config.log? [04:53]
ave1: this seems to be the very first "real" step, compile the binutils for your own system. it may be a CFLAGS problem [04:54]
ave1: oh wait, you are running the scripts on the rockchip? [04:56]
diana_coman: ave1, yes, that was on the rockchip [04:56]
ave1: then the ada-build.sh needs adaptation [04:56]
diana_coman: from yesterday [04:56]
ave1: so far I only ran these starting on x86_64 [04:57]
ave1: one sec [04:57]
diana_coman: kk [04:58]
ave1: it's the 'build-ada.sh' script [04:58]
ave1: it's last line is now: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada x86_64 aarch64 [04:58]
ave1: for starting on aarch64 it should be [04:58]
ave1: ../extra/build-tarballs.sh $PREFIX musl ada aarch64 x86_64 [04:58]
ave1: i.e. aarch64 first [04:59]
diana_coman: ah, let me change that and try it again then [04:59]
ave1: also you can drop the x86_64, as you will probably not be cross compiling to x86_64 [04:59]
ave1: from aarch64 [04:59]
diana_coman: well, I'd rather cross compile too if it works because then I can use the rockchip as launchpad for everything else, why not [05:00]
diana_coman: anyways, might as well try it now [05:00]
ave1: cool idea! [05:00]
ave1: btw the build process is not small, (nothing is cleaned during the run, to get partial build running) [05:02]
ave1: so 14G for build [05:02]
ave1: and 4.1G for install [05:02]
ave1: note also, that a lot of it is disk bound, the run takes longer with slow disks [05:03]
ave1: bbl [05:03]
diana_coman: ave1, seems it needs more tweaking, as it still fails the same: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IqoYy/?raw=true [05:04]
diana_coman: good to know really perhaps add those notes to the post so it's all in one place? [05:05]
diana_coman: re size and disk I mean [05:05]
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813870 <-- ty! [06:12]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 22:31 jurov: spyked, iirc we used 4 accounts and it took about a month? surely it's in the log [06:12]
spyked: ftr, I've gathered about 700k keys in the last 3-4 days if the total number hasn't changed too much from the previous 6.9M, I estimate I should have all of them in 20-30 days from now. [06:15]
ave1: diana_coman, I will try myself too, but need to do some disk shuffling first (I do not have enough room available). Could you send me the config.log in build/build-bootstrap/binutils-2.25.1/build1? [06:49]
diana_coman: ave1, sure: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JGYgX/?raw=true [07:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814127 << the most detailed guide is still the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-02#1807162 document but i'ma elaborate below : [09:21]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 04:46 mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356068 << was this ever broken down ? so 800 per u, 100 per chip, and 2000 transport coming to (800*2+100*96 + 2000) = 13200 ? [09:21]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 00:40 asciilifeform: !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/piz_apr_parts.txt [09:21]
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-15 16:21 ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356051 << ~2.75 BTC at ~current rates gets 4 chassis with 96 total rockchippen, includes 1 delivery run per chassis. [09:21]
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-15 15:37 mod6: ah, maybe that as for 96. anyway, will wait for ben_vulpes [09:21]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814130 << still waiting for quotes in qty 100, but this is approx correct. however a working rockchiptron consists not only of the board, but of heat sink ( 10 usd , and single-source, it gotta have the correct pegs ) , the sd card ( in principle cheapest worx, it ~never gets written to, i am looking into chinese crate ) , ssd ( imho it is pointless to use anything but samsung, and it's ~40 usd in w [09:25]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 04:51 mircea_popescu: fwiw, i see the ROC-RK3328-CC at ~40 to maybe as high as 55 depending on quantity. 100 in one batch should be about 4000 realistically. [09:25]
asciilifeform: hatever qty, they don't seem to have an oem version ) , and lastly, cabling/fasteners [09:25]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814131 << transport for rockchiptron will be considerably cheaper than 2500, as i can't picture needing a whole week, nor 400 in overweight charge for the crates [09:26]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 04:53 ben_vulpes: ~112 per RC, 2500 transpo, 1k for chassis, 4 chassis, 17,252 [09:26]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814138 << 1k for chassis is ~extremely~ pessimistic yes it does need 2x redundant 5v supplies, a quantity of brass pegs , cabling , fans. but not 1k worth. [09:28]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 04:56 mircea_popescu: and why is the chassis 1k ? am i missing something besides "aluminum" ? and why is the bitcoin 17252/2.75 = 6273? [09:28]
asciilifeform: incidentally asciilifeform is still in active search for a suitable chassis : general-purpose atx units that i've found, are unsuitable, they lose ~40% of the internal space to nonremovable drive cages, which do NO good in rockchiptron . additionally, a good half of the chassis on the market, are ( for no reason known to me ) not full depth, these can be rejected right away [09:29]
asciilifeform: flying with 'handmade' aluminum box is out of the question, it must resemble a 'proper' server . [09:29]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814142 << i think he made the numbers deliberately pessimistic, so as to over- rather than under- shoot [09:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 05:00 mircea_popescu: the cheaper you get your stuff, you understand, the more your intaingibles and equity lines are worth. [09:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814146 << asciilifeform in his capacity as 50% owner / operator of subj [09:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 05:03 mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform is nsa fabricating chassisen for pizarro ? or is asciilifeform of his own independent self ? [09:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814152 << currently waiting on quote from manufacturer itself [09:31]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 05:12 mircea_popescu: document, that's the right move. "here's an amazon page link, https://www.amazon.com/Libre-Computer-ROC-RK3328-CC-Renegade-Ethernet/dp/B078RMQYHS and here's some other provider https://www.loverpi.com/products/libre-computer-board-roc-rk3328-cc on which basis I'm guessing we should get the boards at around 4k total here's why i think the chassis costs so much here's why alf's delivery run need not include only 1k in airfa [09:31]
asciilifeform: and re time on site : i can't picture needing more than 3 days : 1 to sleep ( asciilifeform can't sleep on planes ) 1 to install fg and emplace the boxen into the rack 1 for overflow . [09:32]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814192 << definitely not 28. unless a separate fg-less unit is built, then can hold 32 . and yes i have a cad drawing in progress, so as to work like men rather than monkeys in africa [09:35]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 06:21 mircea_popescu: but for tomorrow : 28 per chassis then ? [09:35]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814223 << ave1 can we dispense with building the 'builds dynamic turds, so demands musl on system elsewhere' rubbish ? it is useless. let's stick to useful compiler, that works on any box with matching architecture [09:36]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 08:51 ave1: link is here: http://ave1.org/tarpit/muslaarch64-linux-musl-nativeada.tar.gz [09:36]
asciilifeform: i.e. static musl. [09:36]
asciilifeform: cross compiler also not very useful imho. let the thing build a pc and an arm compiler ( and yes if it has to build cross compiler in the process, let it , but consider it to be a strictly intermediate step ) [09:37]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814257 << keys from where ? plz to specify when reporting [09:38]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 10:15 spyked: ftr, I've gathered about 700k keys in the last 3-4 days if the total number hasn't changed too much from the previous 6.9M, I estimate I should have all of them in 20-30 days from now. [09:38]
* asciilifeform finally eaten log. [09:38]
ave1: asciilifeform, hmm I had it disabled but it is seems to have crept back in. (this is also why is currently failes for diana_coman). [09:40]
asciilifeform: ave1: current version seems to build 1) working pc compiler 2) dynamic-turd arm64 compiler 3) pc-to-arm64 cross compiler [09:42]
* asciilifeform brb,meat [09:42]
ave1: BTW the aarch64 will build static but not by default, so that part I will check. [09:43]
spyked: asciilifeform, shithub. as mentioned in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-11#1812182 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813638 threads. [09:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-11 14:53 spyked: can confirm it worx: e.g. https://api.github.com/users?since=46 returns users starting from id 47. [09:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 18:31 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-10#1811883 << using https://api.github.com/users?since=1 [09:57]
asciilifeform: spyked: ah, ty [10:29]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814270 << forgot to mention the largest and gnarliest component : the ethernet switch [10:29]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814138 << 1k for chassis is ~extremely~ pessimistic yes it does need 2x redundant 5v supplies, a quantity of brass pegs , cabling , fans. but not 1k worth. [10:29]
asciilifeform: ( and yes it absolutely needs ~internal~ switch , cabling to external switch was quite bulky even in the pilot plant with merely 6 units ) [10:30]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814293 << issue is that the current arm64 build won't even ~run~ on any available machine [10:34]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:43 ave1: BTW the aarch64 will build static but not by default, so that part I will check. [10:34]
asciilifeform: ( currently nobody has a musltronic gentoo for arm64, afaik ) [10:35]
asciilifeform: ave1: it should be made to do exactly same thing as the working pc version -- linked ~statically~ so it runs on ~any~ arm64 linux and build, similarly, statically linked, musltronic bins. [10:41]
asciilifeform: ( retaining some knob for dynamic linkage isn't totally useless, it enables such things as valgrind but i'm quite prepared to lose valgrind, it is not really so necessary when writing asciilifeform-style -- heapless -- ada ) [10:42]
asciilifeform: now what i do not know is what diana_coman et al would think of this, iirc s.mg includes a substantial ball of cpp [10:43]
diana_coman: o.O as much as I'd like to lose cpp all together and even forget that it ever existed, that's not feasible atm [10:45]
mircea_popescu: eventually, but not yet. [10:46]
mircea_popescu: trb, also, ball of cpp. [10:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fortunately conventional gcc already exists on the target system [10:50]
asciilifeform: ( gnat can be reserved for building actual ada proggies/subsystems ) [10:50]
mircea_popescu: cool. [10:51]
asciilifeform: something to keep in mind when building heavily mixed gnat/cpp hybrid proggies tho. [10:51]
asciilifeform: (ftr : if you heap-allocate from within ada, you will not be able to valgrind, on static-musltronic gnat.) [10:52]
mircea_popescu: !!up diginet [10:52]
deedbot: diginet voiced for 30 minutes. [10:52]
mircea_popescu: diginet, btw, you got a rsa key ? [10:52]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814244 << yes. [10:55]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 09:00 diana_coman: well, I'd rather cross compile too if it works because then I can use the rockchip as launchpad for everything else, why not [10:55]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-21#1646855 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784325 etc. ITS COMING TO LYF! [10:57]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-21 17:09 mircea_popescu: republican isp = competent sysadmin who handles relationship with multiple dcs in terms of getting hardware installed and refuses any requests made under color of law by the terrorist organisation known as "the united states government". and publishes them. [10:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:59 mircea_popescu: so basically is the idea that you'll just do whatever and we're missing this opportunity to attempt an' standardize iron ? [10:57]
asciilifeform: no escape , from standard iron [11:02]
* asciilifeform does wish that arm64 were available in ecc ram ( or even upgradeable!! ram at all ) variant but 'if wishes were horses' [11:02]
mircea_popescu: otoh arm is cheap enough to run 50 and pretend you're 1950s space program. [11:03]
mircea_popescu: which ~also~ didn't have ecc ram. [11:04]
asciilifeform: aaactually [11:04]
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : they had ecc ) [11:04]
mircea_popescu: yaya. magnetism in space. [11:04]
mircea_popescu: they didn't have ecc. they ~implemented~ ecc exactly in the way described. [11:04]
asciilifeform: well yes, martians did not land and hand it to their waiting arms [11:05]
mircea_popescu: well so then. [11:05]
mircea_popescu: the nightmare this is becoming for the "nobus" bunch though. /me cackles. [11:06]
asciilifeform: ( the difficulty with 'majoritator' -- or what is it even called in engl.?? -- system, is the component itself , where the n-of-m magick itself happens. it is inescapably the weak link. ) [11:06]
mircea_popescu: there is that. [11:06]
mircea_popescu: but can also be implemented as a distributed system, ie, EXACTLY LIKE IN PEOPLE. [11:06]
asciilifeform: in other noose, some basic annotation of certain major phuctorisms is in place, e.g. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factor/412 , http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factor/4961 , http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factor/384 [11:07]
mircea_popescu: where any one component admits TWO levels of failure : direct failure, and meta-failure. the former warrants destruction. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: (meta-failure, of course, being the failure to conceptualize it failed) [11:07]
asciilifeform: sadly the machine that does not eventually meta-fail , is not yet built [11:08]
mircea_popescu: to drive it into the dirt : a) suppose you want reliable addition, for which purpose you comission rockchip machines 1 through 6. b) you pass along the string "5+6". the answers come 11 11 11 65524 11 11. c) machine 3 notices it is the only one with that result via its distributed n-of-m magick module, and returns "op fail" instead. [11:09]
mircea_popescu: suppose instead c'. machine failed to so notice, returned 65524 : step d. the other machines return "reject 3." [11:10]
mircea_popescu: and yes, this can very well be implemented as, "overvotlage its power line" [11:10]
asciilifeform: right, and one of the major selling points of machines with multiple nic [11:10]
asciilifeform: ( another wish list item re arm64 ) [11:10]
mircea_popescu: at that. [11:10]
asciilifeform: also mircea_popescu's scheme readily scales to the earlier 'uci' item [11:11]
mircea_popescu: it does. being whence it came from. [11:11]
asciilifeform: ( where to order a computation, you inject it into any particular node in the net ) [11:11]
mircea_popescu: "trust, but verify" in the original persian. [11:11]
asciilifeform: observe that correctness guarantees are much easier to arrive at than secrecy guarantee [11:12]
* mircea_popescu , incidentally, is a huge persian poetry fan. i mean the pre rinascimento stuff. [11:13]
asciilifeform: ( distributed arithmetizing under the three basic enemy models, 'randomly broken', 'honest-curious', 'malicious' -- is entire mathematical subfield, and unfortunately will not fit 'in the margin of this page' ) [11:13]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, secrecy is not so much a public matter. your harem slaves will keep your secrets, but why are you talking secretly outside of their bodies ? [11:13]
* asciilifeform also fan of old persians, but reads'em in ru transl, his persian-fu being laughably weak at present time [11:14]
mircea_popescu: it's one of the major cultural languages least comprehended by contemporary hermeneutics. [11:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observation was mainly re uci , where enemy model is 'some % of nodes captured and instrumented by hitler' [11:15]
mircea_popescu: sure. [11:15]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a surprisingly 'euro' lang, structurally, try it some time [11:15]
mircea_popescu: doh. [11:15]
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, exactly like with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813451 the "scholars" are gleefully unequipped to match sign and sense. [11:16]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-14 23:37 mircea_popescu: whole item is about as anti-modern as it gets. [11:16]
asciilifeform: ( there's , to asciilifeform's naked eye, moar turk influence in current ro and even ru , than arabic flavour in current persian , if you discount the borrowed alphabet ) [11:16]
mircea_popescu: so it's quite the rewarding activity, trying to puzzle out what the fuck they wanted from lyf. [11:16]
asciilifeform: verily [11:16]
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i have scant interest in current persian. might as well care about neogreek. to what, to see how they decided to transliterate mcdonalds ? [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i couldn't fucking care less. [11:17]
asciilifeform: 'current' is flexible, i was thinking from firdousi's time and on. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i guess. [11:17]
asciilifeform: sorta like 'current ru' is from pushkin and up. [11:18]
asciilifeform: or current de -- from goethe [11:18]
mircea_popescu: i use the italian renaissance for the cut. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: because it's visible, somehow they went to shit. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: i dunno, in other cases -- like, say, dutchland went to shit with william because doh, they all moved over to the island to be english nao -- it's obvious enough wtf happened. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: but there's no major "let's all move to italy then" moment there. [11:19]
mircea_popescu: (the correct cut would be, obviously, the arab invasion -- but i choose to be this insulting.) [11:20]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814257 << nice! [11:24]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 10:15 spyked: ftr, I've gathered about 700k keys in the last 3-4 days if the total number hasn't changed too much from the previous 6.9M, I estimate I should have all of them in 20-30 days from now. [11:24]
mircea_popescu: in "things that willn't have happened 20-30 days from now, say security experts" [11:25]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814268 << i was thinking. cool then, they need every break they can get. [11:26]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:26 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814131 << transport for rockchiptron will be considerably cheaper than 2500, as i can't picture needing a whole week, nor 400 in overweight charge for the crates [11:26]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814276 << yes, but this encounters the following problem : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-16#1373235 while obviously this won't go as far as "every idea alf has", nevertheless by the time alf makes objects, and independently from nsa, then what is nsa ? [11:28]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814146 << asciilifeform in his capacity as 50% owner / operator of subj [11:28]
a111: Logged on 2016-01-16 20:58 phf: i find the framing odd, i thought purpose of s.nsa capital was to assist ascii in his b-a aligned, but essentially personal endeavor, which might potentially have a return. somehow it turned into "pay ascii by the hour". if ascii doesn't want to work on cardano, it's not a b-a way to coerce him, but if the project still exists, is being worked on, then money will be spent when there's something to spend it on, and there will be a [11:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idea is that a working ( built out, and populated ) pizarro, could , in principle, eventually free asciilifeform from the unspeakable nonsense on which he burns most of his time currently. [11:30]
mircea_popescu: yes, but what's the significant problem with nsa selling pizarro custom built chassisen ? [11:30]
mircea_popescu: when you last flew over (on nsa dime) we sold them servers an' nobody died. [11:31]
asciilifeform: no particular problem, aside from the stark contrast between the 100% repeatability and hygiene of , e.g., FG, and the possibly nsa-laden ( i don't design arm crystal, or the pcb, or the switches, etc ) server [11:32]
mircea_popescu: okay, but the larger concern seems to be that you'd rather put all your fabrication under nsa than have to explain to shareholders why not and wherefore in the future. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: there's not some rule that all nsa products must be available to the general public. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: it can do consultancy / custom jobs for isps/dcs, why the hell not. [11:34]
asciilifeform: i will admit however that i dun particularly like the endgame i see in this, where let's say s.nsa sponsors, produces, and sells to pizarro the iron for shares, ends up owning ~100% of pizarro, and asciilifeform doesn't see a dime of profit until ( merely for starters ) he can even afford mpex acct ( which is a major if, rather than a when, it is quite possibly that neither i nor anyone else will ever actually earn 50 btc , and this [11:34]
asciilifeform: is even supposing that mircea_popescu doesn't feel like raising his price again ) . [11:34]
mircea_popescu: it doesn't ~have to~ sell for shares. can sell for cash, why not ? [11:35]
mircea_popescu: we were doing that as an easement, but it's evidently our option neh ? [11:35]
asciilifeform: cuz it doesn't have much in the way of cash. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: well how much pizarro has in the way of cash isn't changed by ooooh i see the problem, you hafta recirculate this is it ? [11:35]
asciilifeform: recirculate ? [11:36]
mircea_popescu: if you do it as "myself" you get whatever chassis cost in btc in your pocket. if you do it as s.nsa you don't, is the logic ? [11:36]
mircea_popescu: except you do, iirc materials get paid anyway ? what am i missing here ? [11:36]
asciilifeform: this isn't actually the problem, pizarro ( and other l1 folx ! thank you ! ) supplied asciilifeform in recent times with 100% of the btc-buying opportunities he can digest [11:38]
asciilifeform: the 'i dun like the endgame' observation was specifically in re the scenario where s.nsa ends up swallowing pizarro. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's any intention of that. i certainly would vote against the measure. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: and one step down, nsa doesn't even have to permit equity buys, can insist on being paid cash. i was permitting it because i thought it's desirable, but if you don't like it evidently won't happen. [11:39]
asciilifeform: ( in case it isn't clear, asciilifeform views s.nsa as in effect a scientific collaboration / partizan front , with mircea_popescu , as asciilifeform does not expect to see any coin from it, i would like to be proven wrong about this, but i don't see selling >50 btc's profit worth of anything, esp not if the climb carries on ) [11:40]
mircea_popescu: afaik nsa always was exactly what phf is quoted above as having understood it is : the umbrella org for your manufactory. [11:41]
mircea_popescu: practically the situation here is this : we can either live in universe 1, whereby chassis for pizarro is produced by you for nsa, and sold by nsa to pizarro. in this world nsa stays what it always was, as above, and pizarro can (at practically your option, as i can go either way) pay with undiscounted bonds for cash-equivalent mateirals [11:42]
mircea_popescu: or else universe 2, whereby chassis for pizarro is produced by you as free agent. in this world we have to now explain what nsa actually is, which becomes a rather difficult task, and pizarro will have to sell its bonds on market, to whatever discount. [11:43]
asciilifeform: right but it oughta be understood that my manufacturing capacity is quite limited, until and unless it somehow permits a full-time asciilifeform . [11:43]
mircea_popescu: but no, the universe 3 whereby "people made a 300 btc donation to unclear future goals" isn't really on the table. [11:43]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, and it isn't so understood ? [11:43]
asciilifeform: i'ma let mircea_popescu say how to crack this nut, my teeth are not up to the job, and pick from his variants, if he dun object [11:44]
mircea_popescu: i'd very much rather we go with 1. they booked the chassises at 1k each, tentatively, which is not what's going to happen. bill 120% materials like it seems it's becoming the repuiblican "standard profit" and there we go. neh ? [11:45]
mircea_popescu: they get a cheaper chassis and we get a working economy. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: mod6, you see holes in ye logic ? [11:45]
asciilifeform: worx for me. but ftr if ben_vulpes and mod6 succumb to temptation of equity-buying, and mircea_popescu , in turn, agrees, it will likely lead to the regrettable situation pictured earlier. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, im not gonna let them. i had no idea you didn't think it's the most excellent the idea. now that i do, hey. [11:46]
asciilifeform: i try to at least sometimes think n-moves ahead.. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: i dunno why i assumed that's the case, but good you said something, as it'd never have occured to me to ask, either. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, anyway, an' ftr, if your concern is that you're underweight pizarro, you can just as well do a second round. see if mod6 wants to either a) give it more btc or else b) move into a minority position. pizarro would certainly benefit from a larger piggy giving it more solidity etc, so you can do another 10-20 round either by yourself if mod6 is agreeable or else match together or any which old way. this isn't an u [11:49]
mircea_popescu: nsurmountable problem. [11:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nothing against 's.nsa owns 10%' scenario, early in the game it was a much-needed breathing room for pizarro. but would like to avoid the situation of the well-known children's physics demo, with the two connected balloons. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: well one direct solution is to enlarge baloon as above. [11:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not opposed to 2nd round, and would participate, iirc ben_vulpes & mod6 are weighing the numberz even as we speak. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: a cool then. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: alright, so. a most productive morning. [11:49]
asciilifeform: btw i dunno if i ever did, but would like to thank mircea_popescu for teaching to asciilifeform , slowly and painfully and for phree, his craft ( organizational, commercial ) . [11:56]
mircea_popescu: hey, other then the times i get pissed off it's a pleasure. [11:57]
asciilifeform: there are still many people from whom one can learn e.g. mathematics but not so many mircea_popescus. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: this is the sad fact of the matter, fucktarded bureaucrats have managed to shit over the true core of what europe even fucking ever was. [11:58]
asciilifeform: at one time asciilifeform hypothesized 'lizards want to unwind the mechant age and install selves as pseudo-feudal nobility' but today not sure of any such thing, possibly just fungal growth [12:02]
asciilifeform: *merchant age [12:02]
mircea_popescu: in any case is the strategic reason for the republican positioning. [12:03]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814281 << good. [12:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:35 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814192 << definitely not 28. unless a separate fg-less unit is built, then can hold 32 . and yes i have a cad drawing in progress, so as to work like men rather than monkeys in africa [12:05]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814286 << this isn't even such a terrible way to go about things. [12:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:37 asciilifeform: cross compiler also not very useful imho. let the thing build a pc and an arm compiler ( and yes if it has to build cross compiler in the process, let it , but consider it to be a strictly intermediate step ) [12:05]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814287 << he's doing a ssh walk. [12:06]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:38 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814257 << keys from where ? plz to specify when reporting [12:06]
mircea_popescu: spyked, by the way, are you hitting both ssh and https for cert keys ? or just ssh ? [12:06]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was mats . iirc spyked is doing shithub rewalk [12:06]
mircea_popescu: oh ? hm. i thought that was ave1 lol. [12:07]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6, you see holes in ye logic ? << Sounds good. I think that s.nsa building the chassis then we do it as stated is fine. (unless I misunderstand). Pizarro will pay for these in cash. I agree too on staying away from the equity buys as well. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: alrighty then. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, oh turns out i was confused, it is github he's doing. [12:09]
mircea_popescu: spyked, sorry, nm. [12:09]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i'm not opposed to 2nd round, and would participate, iirc ben_vulpes & mod6 are weighing the numberz even as we speak. << yeah, we've been talking about this, indeed. [12:10]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814305 << i was thinking, valgrind is more of a "let's see what the githubheads did here" tool than a "i wonder if i can write code" tool. [12:11]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 14:42 asciilifeform: ( retaining some knob for dynamic linkage isn't totally useless, it enables such things as valgrind but i'm quite prepared to lose valgrind, it is not really so necessary when writing asciilifeform-style -- heapless -- ada ) [12:11]
mod6: I think I'm fine to personally add in another 5 BTC at least, maybe 10 BTC. But depends on discussions, etc. [12:11]
mircea_popescu: well then pizarro is doing fine! [12:12]
mod6: One thing that's immediately pressing us is that we need to figure out this BTC->USD conversion problem discussed yesterday. [12:12]
mod6: So there's a couple things in the air: We're workin on it. :] [12:12]
mod6: asciilifeform: how do you feel about such a proposition? If I add in another, say 5 or 10 BTC, does this present any problems in your mind? [12:16]
asciilifeform: mod6: was thinking 5 ( and that'll be most of asciilifeform's coin ... ) [12:25]
mircea_popescu: so what, you do 5 each ? [12:25]
mircea_popescu: or does mod6 do 20 you do 5 and you're ballooned out ? :D [12:25]
asciilifeform: if he wants to [12:26]
asciilifeform: ( i dun insist that other folx 'keep in the pants' ) [12:26]
mircea_popescu: eh, don't be silly. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: the fact that pizarro is actually well supported is the principal part, for its commercial credit. otherwise, it can't well spend even the 10 it has so far, 1.5 or so go to the rockchips, then it's all "get sales going". [12:27]
asciilifeform: troo [12:28]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> or does mod6 do 20 you do 5 and you're ballooned out ? :D << This is a possibility. Although, I'm not sure I want to outlay that much at the moment. [12:32]
mod6: But, yeah, we're trying to figure out what makes sense here. [12:32]
mircea_popescu: so agree that you'll each add another 5btc as circumstances merit then pizarro has all the backing it needs and a clear path to success. and if the circumstances "merit" in the sense that it needs rescuing rather than it's expanding, you can fire the management and get someone else or w/e. [12:35]
mircea_popescu: welcome to the lifecycle of business intro course! [12:35]
mod6: :] [12:36]
mod6: I'm fine to do another round of at least 5 (maybe more) -- but I was under the impression that asciilifeform was sort-of nearly btc-tapped out. But I didn't want to presume anything. [12:37]
ben_vulpes: pretty fine intro course [12:37]
mod6: mod6 can make up the difference if required (I believe). [12:37]
ben_vulpes: good morning [12:37]
mod6: mornin ben_vulpes [12:37]
mircea_popescu: oh btw, is today the 16th of may ? [12:38]
mod6: Yeah. [12:38]
mircea_popescu: the day we celebrate the international phf's pregnancies day ? [12:39]
mod6: We need to pay billz :D [12:39]
mod6: Oh!? Congrats phf! [12:39]
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha [12:39]
* mircea_popescu hasn't had this much fun since highschool. [12:39]
mircea_popescu: mod6, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1807006 [12:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 16:25 phf: aight, i'm going to be out of commission until mid may. i have comments for eulora that i need to type up (i got to sit down with a printout out over this weekend), i'm not sure about the amount of work required for the grapher until i have time to sit down and read v.pl (i sort of have an idea of how to implement it as part of vtools, but i'm not sure if the slicing is adequate), until i do i don't have a clear idea of how long it's going to take. i m [12:40]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform mod6: y'all have a timeline for this second round or are we going to leave it at "when necessary"? i prefer to capture commitments shortly after their made (none of this private equity "you commit twenty million today, we ask for it in three years and returns are evaluated on time from wire clearing to divestment date" silliness), and moreover having and not needing trumps needing and having to [12:43]
ben_vulpes: walk around with hat-in-hand, even to boston partizans [12:43]
mod6: I think we could maybe get it done by end of May. However, we have two other things that need primary focus (others may disagree) at the moment. We need to pay bills, and we need BTC->USD interface. [12:54]
mod6: I guess, it may all be moot if we can't easily convert the BTC->USD to pay ze bills. [12:55]
mod6: Any, regardless of other struggles, I'm rather flexible! [12:55]
mod6: ben_vulpes: but overall, I agree, sooner is better than later. [12:56]
mod6: I'll check back, bbs: meat. [12:56]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814280 << If you want more overflow time in UY, there's plenty of racks in the barracks this time of year [12:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:32 asciilifeform: and re time on site : i can't picture needing more than 3 days : 1 to sleep ( asciilifeform can't sleep on planes ) 1 to install fg and emplace the boxen into the rack 1 for overflow . [12:57]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun do flea pits. ( might stay extra day or two at own expense, in proper room, as time permits ) [12:58]
BingoBoingo: Going on six weeks without a sighting. I was worried the Irish would reinfest the place, but that worry hasn't been realized [12:58]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814083 << Unless it changed on Copa from the US you should be getting two checked bags, one overhead carryon up to 22kg, and one rucksack for under the seat in front of you. [13:00]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 03:57 asciilifeform: 1 man can carry 4u, or rather 100kg ( it is possible to have >4u in regulation-sized trunks ) plus rucksack 10kg. [13:00]
mircea_popescu: to continue http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814352 : take the nizami story of khosrow (last persian ruler) and shirin (possibly roman princess). not only is it usually rendered in pantsuit retellings as "farhad and shirin" (farhad being the politruk, modernist element / in his own mind only rival to the king), but the very naive "women get a say, not the natural but the fabricated sort" it's steeped in (written as it is fi [13:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 15:13 mircea_popescu , incidentally, is a huge persian poetry fan. i mean the pre rinascimento stuff. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: ve centuries after the fact) directly map into current republican ideology on the topic. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: "why no more persian empire after 600 ?" "because they started asking the wrong things of the wrong people" [13:39]
diana_coman: ave1, happy to say that your script worked perfectly fine on x86_64 with Adacore's 2016 gnat! [13:48]
diana_coman: I'd really like to have a clear and tested way to bootstrap with non-adacore gnat though [13:49]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i.e. with fsf's gnat ? [13:49]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, fsf? [13:50]
asciilifeform: this'd be quite a feat, even small proggies apparently have problems building with the 'gnuified' gnat [13:50]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there are 2 known gnat codebase 'forks' , 'fsf'/gnu and adacore [13:50]
asciilifeform: i assume 'non-adacore' implied the former ? [13:50]
diana_coman: ah, free bla bla no, I meant with the output of ave1's script (even if at the very root one used adacore's, once upon a time, fine) basically what I was trying to do yesterday on rockchip [13:51]
asciilifeform: aaaa [13:51]
asciilifeform: in theory this is exactly what you'll get if you 1) install the output of ave1's system on a clean box 2) build the thing, now there, again [13:51]
asciilifeform: ( in shot 1, it used the adacore gnat installed in first step of procedure http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813719 ) [13:52]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-15 21:28 asciilifeform: diana_coman: steps to replicate: 0) on a machine WITH A WORKING GNAT (e.g. adacore's , and it must be in your path already ) 1 ) download the tarball from http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support 2) unpack tarball ada-musl-cross-2018-05-15.tgz , go to the dir 3) mkdir bin << this is where the built binariola will live 4) ./build-ada.sh /home/foo/temp/ada/ada-musl-cross-2018-05-15/bin [13:52]
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1813874 << i was somewhat successful on localbitcoins, until (presumably, noone said me details) they started to wire me stolen money. [13:52]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 00:10 mircea_popescu: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813559 : one important palliative measure would be for ben_vulpes to create a strong presence on localbitcoins, if nowhere else. there's people there willing to do wires for you, and you never know when it comes handy in a pinch. [13:52]
lobbesbot: jurov: Sent 18 hours and 59 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ahdGa/?raw=true Thank you [13:52]
asciilifeform: jurov: what , exactly , happened ? the wire unwound ? police showed up and burned down house ? [13:53]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, aha, I know my point was: we need to have this tested and ironed out and we are golden [13:53]
jurov: asciilifeform: transferwise declined all further wires to my acct [13:53]
mircea_popescu: who's "transferwise" ? [13:53]
asciilifeform: i was about to ask [13:54]
jurov: it's sth like western union [13:54]
mircea_popescu: so who asked them ? [13:54]
mircea_popescu: wires aren't negotiable instruments. [13:54]
jurov: how would i obtain such information, pls? [13:54]
mircea_popescu: well, you ask whoever told you "so and so decliend" who asked them anything. [13:54]
asciilifeform: jurov: from the description, it sounds like a paypal. so say you were proclaimed persona non grata by paypal. what's it to you ? [13:55]
mircea_popescu: i dunno specifically, but you follow the trail, in general. [13:55]
asciilifeform: or do 100% of localbitcoinists, use it, and not real wires ? or wat [13:55]
jurov: i don't care. [13:55]
mircea_popescu: a well then there's that. [13:55]
asciilifeform: i mean, out of context, it reads quite oddly, '... and then i was excommunicated' 'but were you even in the church' 'no' '???' [13:56]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/05/maduros-gang-in-venezuala-seizes-cereal-plant/ << Qntra - Maduro's Gang In Venezuala Seizes Cereal Plant [13:57]
mircea_popescu: well, fwis "something happened i can't be arsed to debug". which is a perfectly fine and even somewhat common failure mode. [13:57]
jurov: transferwise was better than paypal as they don't hold funds, they send each wire directly to my bank. if i used paypal, they have no problem to seize whole account. [13:57]
BingoBoingo: from wikipedoia: "TransferWise routes payments not by transferring the sender's money directly to the recipient, but by redirecting them to the recipient of an equivalent transfer going in the opposite direction. Likewise, the recipient of the transfer receives a payment not from the sender initiating the transfer, but from the sender of the equivalent transfer. This process avoids currency conversion and transfers crossing borders" [13:57]
mircea_popescu: jurov, you could just ~get actual wires~ neh ? [13:57]
jurov: and ofc, NO ONE i know of got any answer "why" frm paypl [13:57]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sounds like the old 'ripple' scamola [13:58]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck would want to get involved with that nonsense jebus. [13:58]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Kinds looks like the idea the RIPple folks RIPple'd off. [13:58]
mircea_popescu: jurov, glad you said something, we can now ban "transferwise" explicitly. [13:58]
asciilifeform: my current guess ( given that jurov did not say in detail ) is that he was involved with it on ~receiving~ end, unknowingly , and that some % of the folx offering 'wire' for btc, actually send spamolafauxwire [13:59]
jurov: before bitcoin, i was paid from australia by wires and it was deplorable, ~50 euro fees unpredictable every time [13:59]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, some of the "transferwise" "customers" are evidently into money laundering, as the entire "service" transparently reeks of. soo... mno. [13:59]
mircea_popescu: jurov, yes, wires are not free. i'd rather pay that 50 than almost any other 50 though. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: just like i'd rather pay bitcoin tx fees than other chrap. jesus christ. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2018/05/maduros-gang-in-venezuala-seizes-cereal-plant/ << maduro is getting supar cereal! [14:02]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fucking cheek of those fuckers. seriously, they're going to be the indirection layer between you and your friends ? and what else, "web platforms" ? [14:04]
mircea_popescu: burn the whole shitpile down omfg. [14:04]
BingoBoingo: And in other developments, Cambios are now buying Argentine pesos for 0.9 Pesos Uruguayos. The cambios however are still selling Argentine Pesos for 1.6 Pesos Uruguayos. [14:07]
mircea_popescu: hey, better than the 3.5x it was for a while. [14:07]
BingoBoingo: It's a hell of a spread, but this is the lowest I've seen the Argentine peso in my time here. Compra/Venta on the USD is 30/31 so the Pesos Uruguayo has dropped a bit too, but WTF Argentina [14:09]
mircea_popescu: and i bet you they're still pompously going about buenos aires, buying socks on credit and acting like renting their hovels is anything but an act of grace such that you get the wife/daugthers every night you feel like. [14:11]
asciilifeform: speaking of orcistans, BingoBoingo didja ever get that crate ? [14:12]
BingoBoingo: Exchange rates are on BIG signs in the windows of cambios in every corner, and yet the common perception is the peso Argentino is "worth more" than the peso Uruguayo [14:12]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or any news of it at all [14:12]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and yes i mailed'em your photo, as you asked, 0 reply [14:12]
BingoBoingo: I have heard nothing. Did you simply mail them the scan, or did you accompany it with: With respect to [tracking number] here is the requested document. Considering [whatever prepaid customs program, and Amazon order #], I am confused as to why this parcel has not been delivered. [14:16]
asciilifeform: the latter [14:17]
asciilifeform: ( was, as instructed, reply to msg containing same ) [14:17]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: have you been to the magic booth in ( the airport ? iirc ) of yet ? [14:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, perhaps should organize a carrying of various spare odds and ends such as a dc must have on hand but the orcs do not : assorted cables, spare hdds / cards etc. [14:22]
BingoBoingo: Not yet, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of a 3-4 hour minimum airport adventure trying to argue the finer points of a pre-paid customs program I am unfamiliar with. Have you tried twisting the nipple of the prepaid customs folks yet? Escalating the DHL thing? [14:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: already began this, with asciilifeform's 1st expedition, delivered a sizeable ( tho by no means sufficient forever ) box of miscellany [14:22]
mircea_popescu: incide4ntally, is the samsung item availavble locally ? "no oem" may have the counter-property that "same price everywhere" [14:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in my tour of the ( sadly quite few ) working comp shops of BingoBoingostan , no identical or comparable unit turned up [14:23]
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: how are you going to learn how to do it but by doing it [14:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the absolute requirement is for a usb3 ( specifically, otherwise box unusably laggy ) drive, with reasonable write-wear endurance ( rules out 'no-names' quite thoroughly ) [14:24]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, hey, you got 8 hours every day to fit it in. [14:24]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: are you in fighting shape now ? no moar plague ? [14:25]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Still rather cough-y [14:25]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And are there reciepts or anything beyond the tracking page and demand letter? These people are big on invoices and I lack one. [14:27]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 1s [14:28]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hMA6m/?raw=true [14:33]
asciilifeform: try an' give'em this [14:33]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty. I'll plan to get on the bus Friday. In the interim if you could send keepalive/IRunhappy packets to AES/DHL, just to see if the package could appear without getting on the tin can of misery it would be appreciated. [14:49]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: got an ack, of sorts, just nao, 'Muchas gracias por la información enviada' [15:22]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty. If there's a way to avoid transit in the tin can of sadness, it is appreciated. [15:27]
BingoBoingo: After the rest of today's business will probably hacer a blogpoast on the subject [15:38]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology: among people deemed 'notable' by ye olde pediwikia: https://archive.li/9ea4p ( 'talk' https://archive.li/iURe0 ) << infamous 1990s net crackpot d00d [16:20]
asciilifeform: !!up PeterL [16:56]
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes. [16:56]
PeterL: Oh, hi there [16:56]
asciilifeform: what's new, PeterL ? [16:58]
PeterL: Just got a new computer at work, testing things out. (they upgraded us all to Winblows 10, horay! bleh) [16:58]
asciilifeform: barfalicious [16:58]
trinque: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda is but a livecd away [16:59]
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2018/irssi-on-pizarro-shared-hosting/ << Daniel P. Barron - irssi on pizarro shared hosting [17:41]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tracking information updated. Looks like a trip in la lata miserable will be avoided [17:50]
asciilifeform: oh hey. [17:51]
asciilifeform: in other noose, phuctor frontend updated e.g. in http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factors , formatting of individual factor pages , and a few other minor things [18:00]
asciilifeform: ( the other change, is not interesting to anyone but asciilifeform , but i will put it on the record : the thing has a 'json' api nao ) [18:03]
asciilifeform: ( ^ this permits decoupling of the front- and back- ends, theoretically 'anyone' can offer a valid factor for a particular modulus, and the db will Do The Right Thing . but currently only used in-house ) [18:04]
asciilifeform: ( in re 'minor changes' , nao we indicate if a mod is Fully Phuctored, e.g. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ABF23DE303BE1C82869D7925F0ACF7A8F54B420469D851530FC4121CBEC0B356 ) [18:06]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your perl scripts are unloadable -- permissions eggog [18:24]
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factors << updated some moar. [19:39]
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/16/tin-cans-full-of-misery-riding-the-bus-in-uruguay/ << Bingo Blog - Tin Cans Full Of Misery Riding The Bus In Uruguay [23:08]
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-prerelease/ << esthlos - esthlos-v Prerelease [23:28]
esthlos: ^^ please check out the prerelease [23:32]
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