Forum logs for 14 Nov 2018
| mircea_popescu: | http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-13-nov-2018#2495766 << hey, sinology very valid topic of study at republican ministry of foreign relations. | [00:02] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-13 19:48 asciilifeform: it's evidently very diff animal than the zimbabwe that got its arse handed to it in '30s | [00:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744472 << heh. aaanyway, it's not that g_l had necessarily a bad grasp of priors, but he did take them to strange, sometimes contorted conclusions. | [00:14] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-11-29 21:12 gabriel_laddel: MP is the MP of our generation | [00:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872093 << i utterly don't understand this "stealing" mindset. http://btcbase.org/log/2013-09-13#307975 | [00:16] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-13 22:22 asciilifeform: said only 1 thing, sumthing like 'motherfucker, you stole my name' | [00:16] |
| a111: | Logged on 2013-09-13 08:59 mircea_popescu: not like she's made of soap, to wear out... | [00:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | ahh, but what a productive monday this has been! | [00:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872142 << does it cancel anything ? | [00:20] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 00:18 mod6: 1) My toaster has a cancel button | [00:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ << i suppose looking there would have made it obvious (check it out btw, 20th feb 2016, july 207, 22nd feb 2018!) but | [00:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman whered you end up with ye 2017 version from ? just used local copy, missed update ? | [00:23] |
| deedbot: | http://bimbo.club/?p=77 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/31/2018 | [01:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | Meanwhile in Matt Mallenwiggle's WP fork: https://archive.is/C22ko | [01:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | "GDPR" heh,. | [02:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | who the fuck would even consider such shaite. | [02:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | The same sort who'd upgrade without knowing why | [02:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways: Blog update - I think I've found a Rockchip friendlier mysql config. Not expanding to eat all the RAM at the moment. Compiling the rest of the moving parts. | [02:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [02:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Finding seems to be Innodb is a poor default | [02:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Setting MyISAM seems to bring Mysql's RAM usage closer in line with the size of the db | [02:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | The pain comes in settin MyIASM as a default without doing the instictive right appearing thing which is disable Innodb completely. | [02:53] |
| diana_coman: | mod6, I've put the vpatch, neh? | [02:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | Completely disabling Innodb pisses off the "emerge --config dev-db/mysql" script | [02:55] |
| diana_coman: | the genesis IS on 99994K yes, the next vpatch upgrades it to 99993K and only THEN my own vpatch changes it to use Keccak and vtools | [02:55] |
| diana_coman: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872169 -> as ^ now I'm not sure if anyone actually look at the 2nd vpatch and hence it really is an old version that's there or just got hang up on the fact that I kept to preserve some history and hence genesis+vpatch to version 3 | [02:59] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 05:23 mircea_popescu: diana_coman whered you end up with ye 2017 version from ? just used local copy, missed update ? | [02:59] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw the keccak-version of v (i.e. pressing the tree I published all the way to its leaf) IS the corrected one re pressing order later today I'll do a diff with precisely the versions mod6 has at http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ but going by version number I really don't see what "old version" are you saying | [03:03] |
| diana_coman: | if anything, I suppose I could have gotten the genesis with an earlier version | [03:03] |
| diana_coman: | mod6, I don't see any comment from you on my blog, what happened? (re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872143 ) | [03:05] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 00:20 mod6: 2) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872126 << diana_coman I tried to leave you a note on your blog. But seems that you've based the genesis off of my vtron version 99994K, but there is a newer version: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz.mod6.sig Which is denoted as version 99993K. | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | right, doing the diff with the archived versions at http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ yields: my genesis is precisely http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz the version 3 aka after applying the .vpatch http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/v_mod6_99993.vpatch does bring in the code modifications of http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz, but not the docs changes | [04:55] |
| diana_coman: | so to keep this fully aligned, I'll regrind the last 2 patches so that the docs changes are carried over as well as a result: genesis = http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz 1st patch => http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz 2nd patch => using vtools & keccak instead of sha | [04:58] |
| diana_coman: | and done: the updated .vpatch files and starter_v.zip + sigs are all up I've checked them on my RK genesis is the same and result is identical to V-2017 the result of 99993 .vpatch is identical to V-2018 the result of keccak_vtools vpatch is to update BOTH docs and code re docs, I've nuked the user manual as I won't maintain it and it's becoming confusing due to being out of date I've updated the quick_guide however, mainly for 1st t | [05:54] |
| diana_coman: | ime users really re .zip file: the v in there is precisely what one gets by pressing my v_keccak_vtools.vpatch | [05:54] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, my test went precisely on this path: get the .zip first and then use that to press the vpatches and then check results + whether they are the very same | [05:55] |
| diana_coman: | hopefully this is now finally clearly set for future maintenance of any sort, but let me know if there is any other trouble you see with it | [05:56] |
| bvt: | asciilifeform: have you seen https://github.com/Componolit/libsparkcrypto ? their modexp code looks sad, but other components may be interesting | [08:06] |
| asciilifeform: | bvt: https://github.com/Componolit/libsparkcrypto/blob/componolit/src/shared/generic/lsc-bignum.adb << holyfuq, obfuscated ada contest ! | [09:06] |
| asciilifeform: | i am impressed with the sheer volume of liquishit | [09:07] |
| asciilifeform: | i think just his bigendian vs littlendian speshulcases (why he has any?! ffa doesn't..! ) weigh moar than all of ffa together | [09:08] |
| asciilifeform: | https://github.com/Componolit/libsparkcrypto/blob/componolit/src/shared/generic/lsc-bignum.ads << even the declarations suffer from advanced elephantiasis | [09:11] |
| asciilifeform: | tldr : yet-another nonconstanttime , notfitinhead piece of shit, valuable exhibit for kunstkammer of 'how not to ada' | [09:12] |
| asciilifeform: | and 'how not to crypto', pretty good illustration of the tension between 'machine proofs' and 'fits in head' (author resolved wholly in favour of the former and took a tall shit on the latter) | [09:13] |
| asciilifeform: | bvt: in all srs, thx for digging it up, and if anybody finds another , plox to also post, there is room in the kunstkammer . | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform oh i see, you redid the whole tree, that was a patch | [10:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo trilema is mostly on myisam. | [10:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | i meant diana_coman ah i see, you redid the whole tree, that was a patch. | [10:44] |
| mod6: | tarting MDMCommandQueueMonitor through JMX | [10:45] |
| mod6: | 2018-11-13 15:35:03,098 [INFO ] [0.101.22.52] [MDMCommandQueueMonitor ] - Cancelling existing run of MDMCommandQueueMonitor | [10:45] |
| mod6: | ah jeeze | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | o hai mod6 | [10:45] |
| mod6: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872182 << Ahhh! I see what you did there. | [10:45] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 07:55 diana_coman: the genesis IS on 99994K yes, the next vpatch upgrades it to 99993K and only THEN my own vpatch changes it to use Keccak and vtools | [10:45] |
| mod6: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872187 << no worries, I tried to post a comment on your blog post from the train, it may have not went through. | [10:46] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 08:05 diana_coman: mod6, I don't see any comment from you on my blog, what happened? (re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872143 ) | [10:46] |
| mod6: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872191 << Totall get it that you don't want to maintain the user docs, I do disagree that they were are out date tho. I did a diff between them from the 99994K and 99993K versions and I did update it for the Feb release. | [10:48] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-14 10:54 diana_coman: and done: the updated .vpatch files and starter_v.zip + sigs are all up I've checked them on my RK genesis is the same and result is identical to V-2017 the result of 99993 .vpatch is identical to V-2018 the result of keccak_vtools vpatch is to update BOTH docs and code re docs, I've nuked the user manual as I won't maintain it and it's becoming confusing due to being out of date I've updated the quick_guide however, mainly for 1st t | [10:48] |
| mod6: | Anyway, *nod* looks good. I'll try to test it one of these days when I have a spare minute. | [10:49] |
| mod6: | bbl | [10:49] |
| mod6: | lol, o hai mircea_popescu | [11:03] |
| mod6: | anyway, srsly bb. | [11:03] |
| mod6: | l | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | mod6, I meant out of date wrt to my vpatch i.e. keccak hashes | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | if you notice, I said out of date at 3rd vpatch, NOT before and yes, 2nd vpatch includes them precisely because they are at that point still perfectly fine | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | the out of date also refers to the fact that meanwhile V has a broader scope really than trb code | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | onth I kept the quick guide and updated it to point users to a. use the bloody help of V as it's quite useful as it is! b. ask if they get stuck, wtf | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, if anyone wants to maintain the full & detailed manual, I will happily sign their .vpatch with it,sure | [11:12] |
| mod6: | <+diana_coman> mod6, I meant out of date wrt to my vpatch i.e. keccak hashes << ahh, gotcha | [11:14] |
| mod6: | thanks for doing all this work diana_coman, I appreciate it. it's long over do for a v'ing. :] | [11:19] |
| asciilifeform: | ohai mod6 , diana_coman , mircea_popescu | [11:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo trilema is mostly on myisam. << ty | [12:11] |
| diana_coman: | mod6, re comment, it seems it got lost, I could not find it anywhere so not in queue nor anything | [15:06] |
| * diana_coman | waves to asciilifeform | [15:08] |
| asciilifeform: | ohai diana_coman | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | the table with FFA patches looks great I'll look into carving again some space to re-start on it | [15:08] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: lemme know if you run into anyffing to any degree confusing. | [15:09] |
| asciilifeform: | ( iirc you already ate the most difficult material ) | [15:09] |
| * diana_coman | will come and complain loudly if confused | [15:10] |
| asciilifeform: | so far conveyor is on schedule. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | but it might still take a while to get back to it | [15:10] |
| asciilifeform: | i in turn am working through diana_coman's oaep articles | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | eucrypt? | [15:11] |
| asciilifeform: | aha | [15:11] |
| asciilifeform: | ch. 10 in particular | [15:12] |
| asciilifeform: | it's 1 of the coupla items i dun have yet | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | meanwhile the oaep got sorted better as part of smg comms really (i.e. only ada calling c, no back and forth dance and that gets rid of a LOT of confusion) | [15:12] |
| asciilifeform: | fortunately i dun have ~that~ problem ( instead i have others, lol ) | [15:12] |
| asciilifeform: | i was hoping to avoid baking hashing into ffa/p , but loox like it isn't escapable if we're doing oaep | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | problems are never in short supply, certainly | [15:17] |
| asciilifeform: | the fixed structure elements in oaep bother asciilifeform . ( initially was gonna do destructurization differently : each bit of payload turned into 4 via rng xor, then fisher-yates shuffle, then the 'deshuffling' binarysort code is appended to message. you can prove that the output is 'all or nuffin' transform. ) | [15:17] |
| * asciilifeform | brb,teatime | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | my understanding was that nobody actually LIKES oaep all that much but it's (again! another one of those!) the thing we have (as opposed to the thing we might wish for) | [15:20] |
| * diana_coman | will go afk too | [15:21] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: correct | [15:46] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: it's the most economical, at the very least, algo that sorta does the job | [15:46] |
| asciilifeform: | ( that is, oaep ) | [15:47] |
| asciilifeform: | in s.mg's incarnation, carries 245 octets of payload per 512 rsablock, i.e. ~48% efficient | [15:48] |
| asciilifeform: | and hence prolly also is The Right Thing for other space-constrained applications, e.g. udptronic gossipd | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | but for general-purpose pgp replacement, conceivably could use something 'hungrier' but with 0 fixed structural bits. i'ma invite mircea_popescu et al to consider the subj. | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | ideal algo imho would carry at least 5 bit of entropy for erry bit of payload, and in such a way that all bits are 0/1 with exactly 0.5 prob. and such that flipping one bit of ciphertext flips at least 1/2 of the output bits. | [15:52] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i.e. when ciphertext passed through e.g. 'dieharder' it would be indistinguishable from FG ) | [15:53] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl,meat | [15:53] |
| mod6: | <+diana_coman> mod6, re comment, it seems it got lost, I could not find it anywhere so not in queue nor anything << not a problem at all. we've resolved it anyhow. thanks for looking. | [15:58] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2018/11/us-our-military-edge-has-eroded/ << Qntra - US: Our 'Military Edge' Has Eroded | [16:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | In local news, Prison Mall had a fire. Apparently happens on a roughly annual basis https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/incendio-en-shopping-punta-carretas-obligar-interrupcion-del-transito--20181114983 | [16:08] |
| deedbot: | http://bingology.net/2018/09/03/hello-world/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Hello world! | [17:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | ^ Restoring content, apologies for any noise | [17:03] |
| lobbes: | "el incendio anual" heh | [17:06] |
| trinque: | BingoBoingo: should I null-route your feed for a bit? | [17:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | trinque: Please do, will ping when shit is restored | [17:11] |
| trinque: | can't get to it immediately, in about an hour or two can | [17:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | trinque: ping me at your leisure to announce the silence | [19:10] |
| trinque: | BingoBoingo: done, let 'er rip | [19:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | ty | [19:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | <lobbes> "el incendio anual" heh << Mind that before becoming a mall in a more expensive neighborhood than the Datacenter's, a good chunk of the present legislature or their parents were locked up there for being commie scum | [20:37] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: didja end up having to glue yer blog back together from archived pages ?! | [21:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: Some parts, yes | [21:08] |
| asciilifeform: | damn | [21:08] |
| asciilifeform: | i did say 'let's errybody move to new rk disks asap' , neh | [21:08] |
| asciilifeform: | dunno why BingoBoingo felt compelled to tempt the fates | [21:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | On the plus size, I did learn that using MyISAM instead of Innodb actual RAM available on the Rockchip for not MySQL | [21:09] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6 pleez let me know when we can swap yours, iirc you're the last rk fella on old disk | [21:09] |
| asciilifeform: | also folx, pleeez make backups! i should not even have to remind. there is not such a thing known presently as an immortal disk. | [21:10] |
| asciilifeform: | !Q later tell ben_vulpes didja find the eggog ? you estimated 'wednesday', and the day is nearly at end.. | [21:13] |
| lobbesbot: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [21:13] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: if we ever build a rk-like board from the ground up, i'ma give it at least mirror raid. but presently afaik no such thing can be had. | [21:15] |
| asciilifeform: | i was almost gonna say 'we're the first to put arm64 in a dc rack' but then recalled that jurov, years ago, saw such a thing somewhere | [21:17] |
| asciilifeform: | jurov do you recall what it was they used ? ( or was it custom ) | [21:17] |
| asciilifeform: | btw for many yrs i've searched for the obvious simple gadget, a y-shaped thing that'd turn 2 or moar usb sticks into an iron raid. but still not found, dun seem like anybody ever made. | [21:19] |
| asciilifeform: | ( plenty of folx made 'soft' raid, but those imho are worse than useless ) | [21:19] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872279 << currently i know veeery little about mysql ( always used postgres, and at this point know embarrassingly much re the internals and tuning knobs ) -- but iirc mp's-wp requires specifically mysql, so prolly doomed to study it at some point | [21:26] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-15 02:09 BingoBoingo: On the plus size, I did learn that using MyISAM instead of Innodb actual RAM available on the Rockchip for not MySQL | [21:26] |
| asciilifeform: | he did pick it for a logical reason, but i cannot currently recall what it was ( prolly detailed in l0gz ) | [21:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: It's what wordpress expects. Otherthings can be forced into place at substantial cost. | [21:28] |
| asciilifeform: | phuctor ( and in particular, some of the 'heavier' / unusual pheatures, like search ) i baked specifically around postgres. | [21:29] |
| asciilifeform: | possibly 1 of these days i oughta publish my kludge for making ancient wp go on postgres but it isn't half as polished as mp's and i dunno that anyone would win from cribbing it | [21:31] |
| asciilifeform: | i view it rather like (i picture) mircea_popescu views his 'mpb' item | [21:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Changing the storage engine has resulted in a more than 10x reduction in RAM used | [21:34] |
| asciilifeform: | neato | [21:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | From eating more than half the Rockchip's 2gigs to ~130 megs | [21:35] |
| * BingoBoingo | also moved from lighttpd in the last incarnation to apache in this one | [21:36] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: fwiw postgres doesn't, 'out of the box', have the runaway ram problem. ( it had exact opposite -- i had to coax it into actually making constructive use of dulap III's very plentiful ram ) | [21:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | Consider Phuctor is a sorta bespoke thing. DB software architect can't antipate a Phuctor and how its filled. On the other hand most mysql installs power wordpress. | [21:39] |
| asciilifeform: | imho people should not default to runaway-ram | [21:39] |
| asciilifeform: | it's unseemly | [21:39] |
| asciilifeform: | erry proggy should at the very least take a param for max ram guzzle | [21:40] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and behave gracefully when limit hit ) | [21:40] |
| asciilifeform: | esp. a wwwtronic thing, where there is a readily-available graceful failure mode ( make connector wait a few sec for a free slot ) | [21:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | The failure mode under stress was an attractor to lighttpd, but... configuring it is a pain | [21:45] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: have you found approx how much ram it eats per request ? | [21:45] |
| asciilifeform: | ( seems , at least by my lights, uncharacteristically hungry... does it really take a coupla MB of working ram , per GET , to serve up a blog ? ) | [21:46] |
| asciilifeform: | also iirc diana_coman and hanbot both have mp's-wp on rk , and i dun recall either of'em ever reporting OOM | [21:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | I have not. My understanding of how it worked was it sat in a failry consistent RAM footprint as a running process and played goalie shoving the blog to php-fpm | [21:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | hanbot is on the shared machine | [21:48] |
| asciilifeform: | aaa | [21:48] |
| asciilifeform: | pretty sure that diana_coman is on rk tho | [21:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yeah, lobbes as well. | [21:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, figuring out chron is now high on the todo list | [21:52] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: cron ? | [21:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yeah, timed mysql dumps | [21:58] |
| asciilifeform: | aa | [21:58] |
| asciilifeform: | i dun expect it'll be esp painful in your case, yours wont be 30+GB | [21:59] |
| asciilifeform: | ( current mass of compressed phuctor snapshot ) | [21:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | Several orders of magnitudes less | [22:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | Thankfully Qntra has a backup button, but with mp-wp I gotta dogfood it, because it is what I will be asked about | [22:24] |
Category: Logs
