Forum logs for 10 Nov 2018
| asciilifeform: | ohai Mocky | [09:07] |
| Mocky: | good morning asciilifeform | [09:07] |
| Mocky: | another 9 hours of sleep. now I feel like I'm back to life | [09:10] |
| Mocky: | took the bike out for a spin. had to bundle up, bit of cold shock to my system | [09:10] |
| * asciilifeform | finally finished rereading ffa, nao preparing ch12 + estimate of just-how-long-to-battlefield promised earlier | [09:10] |
| asciilifeform: | in other noose, yet-another http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-05-nov-2018#2493396 found : 108.170.1.134 | [09:32] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-05 22:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869615 << aaand anothr, 99.242.113.183 | [09:32] |
| asciilifeform: | this makes 7 known. | [09:32] |
| deedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/10/smg-comms-chapter-7-readwrite-serpent-keysets-tofrom-serpent-messages/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 7: Read/Write Serpent Keysets to/from Serpent Messages | [11:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!rate Mocky 4 ἀποκρισιάριος دولة قطر | [11:27] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/suPUk/?raw=true | [11:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!v CD62A36D1DC3CAB02144BC12622048BC7311B59FC823613AB0A3863CD38B6735 | [11:28] |
| deedbot: | mircea_popescu updated rating of Mocky from 3 to 4 << ἀποκρισιάριος دولة قطر | [11:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | pai nu ?! | [11:28] |
| * asciilifeform | lulzily, was actually able to make sense of this mega-orcogram | [11:30] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ' I admit I am still not 100% sure of the actual, exact representation of such a record containing itself parametrized records since my understanding is that Ada will allocated maximum space (i.e. space to fit potentially the largest structure) ' >> i dug into this when baked 'nqb'. what it does is exactly this, recursively ( for ~each~ subrecord, allocates the maximum possible size ditto any subrecords. ) the represen | [11:36] |
| asciilifeform: | tation is exactly as one expects, but if you want the size params to live inside the record and appear in the raw bitz, you gotta make'em members | [11:36] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: imho mircea_popescu's protocol is simple enuff , however, that it doesn't make a gigantic difference that you walk the records explicitly, in re complexity of proggy | [11:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform win. | [11:38] |
| asciilifeform: | the parametrized record thing i found to be helpful when eating/shitting gnarly heathen datastructures, in nqb in particular (the block/tx representations) but even there i had to do some explicit serialization | [11:40] |
| asciilifeform: | ( cuz ada is deliberately a 1-pass parser, it does not permit gnarly interdependency between record members that can't be resolved in 1 walk ) | [11:41] |
| asciilifeform: | this kinda thing can be frustrating, but imho it helps to remember that ada is ~deliberately~ 'not a haskell', it does not try to 'think for you', but rather leans to 'must be obvious to reader what proggy does' | [11:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ? | [11:43] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: btw the LSB/MSB/LMSB thing can be made slightly clearer / less-ctronic by actually making'em into 1-bit members of the record gnat will do The Right Thing re padding | [11:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | elegant takes a single l while at it. | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | (i agree, it makes no sense, it's a strong l. but english has no conception.) | [11:49] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: and while we're nitpicking, Serpent message types can be an enumeration (see barnes) | [11:52] |
| asciilifeform: | ( http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/05rm/html/RM-3-5-1.html ) | [11:53] |
| asciilifeform: | also how come you need procedure Cast_LE( LE: in out Raw_Types.Octets ) ? i thought the algo was 'if message invalid, flip endianism in whole thing and re-eval before discard' | [11:56] |
| asciilifeform: | that way needs 0 awareness of native endianism ( or remote ) | [11:56] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu what do you see when you grep for Shift_Right(Result ? | [11:58] |
| asciilifeform: | i think there's a html inbandism booby in there ( but possibly only in graphic browser ? ) | [11:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | $ curl http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/05rm/html/RM-3-5-1.html | grep "Shift_Right(Result" | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | 100 10178 100 10178 0 0 2621 0 0:00:03 0:00:03 --:--:-- 26925 | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, nothing. | [11:59] |
| asciilifeform: | nono | [11:59] |
| asciilifeform: | in diana_coman's article | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | Result := Shift_Right(Result, <img src='http://ossasepia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> xor | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman your guy has smileys kek. | [12:00] |
| asciilifeform: | lol | [12:00] |
| asciilifeform: | i had nfi this was in mp's-wp!11 | [12:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform you can define hooks for replacement. i suspect this might be a theme thing. mine replaces gpg code with fixed format... apparently her theme replaces :) | [12:01] |
| asciilifeform: | aa yea i recall, for signed comments | [12:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [12:02] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i backported this to my wp, incidentally , so far the only mpwp item i did this for ) | [12:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty fucking useful. | [12:02] |
| asciilifeform: | verily | [12:02] |
| mod6: | hola | [13:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Comó andas? | [13:35] |
| mod6: | Bien. | [13:36] |
| mod6: | y tu? | [13:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Tranquilo | [13:39] |
| mod6: | :] | [13:40] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2018/11/malibu-burns/ << Qntra - Malibu Burns | [13:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | because it's totally "normal" for your fucking house to burn, dumb piggy, and it's "an event" which "happens", and there's no such thing as agency in zeklands and so on. | [14:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | in another decade, "find out which celebrity hasn't had running water this week" | [14:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sure it'll take that long. This is KKKalifornia | [14:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | nuts. | [14:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Could be two years and their new governor Gavin decides no water for anyone | [14:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | water is too white amirite. | [14:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | new pepsi black, has what plants crave. | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870620 -nitpick away! I actually DID consider that and I decided it's not really fitting because think of it: if I make it enumeration that *also* means you can actually go succ and prev which however isn't something that makes sense for message types it's not like they are an actual ordered thing | [14:28] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 16:52 asciilifeform: diana_coman: and while we're nitpicking, Serpent message types can be an enumeration (see barnes) | [14:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870634 -> lol, I'll fix | [14:29] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 17:00 mircea_popescu: diana_coman your guy has smileys kek. | [14:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | i honestly don't understand why ada doesn't have native support for structured data. | [14:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman would it be smart if i defined the count types narrowly ? ie, bitwise ? | [14:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | "no fucker, this isn't an "int", this is a 15 bit counter" | [14:32] |
| diana_coman: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870616 - I don't think the structure in itself is problematic I think it's simply the serialize-in-one-go that doesn't mix well with any flexibility at all | [14:33] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 16:43 mircea_popescu: diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ? | [14:33] |
| * mircea_popescu | is not at all adverse to permitting ada metasyntactic considerations leak into the protocol. there's no rule specwork gotta happen in meta-c. | [14:33] |
| diana_coman: | I'm not sure what would the bitwise thing buy exactly? | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | point in case, defining variable in "bitsize". why am i not simply saying "this is a counter from 1 to 19" or w/e ? | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | then the "it allocates whyole counter" becomes nonproblem. | [14:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, that IS what I said though, lol | [14:34] |
| diana_coman: | at implementation time that is how I define the counter for keyset for instance | [14:34] |
| diana_coman: | it isn't a "8-bit value" | [14:34] |
| diana_coman: | but 1 to 40 | [14:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman specifically, why doesn't http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-195.0-195.48 simply say "from 1 to 15" or w/e it is ? | [14:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | then a) ada should allocate this as a 4 bit value and b) ada allocating space for 15 records is entirely fine anyway. with a being a very minor point but b being a major point because we've reoriented ourselves to where features of the language are indistinct rather than inconvenient. this is very much the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505418 thing. | [14:37] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-07-19 14:07 mircea_popescu: the basic, and really only, rule of hermeneutics is : that then you've understood a text when, far from its shortcomings appearing inexplicable errors, they become the actual pillars upon which the damned thing is constructed, and what originally seemed to you sensible and structural takes its true place as accidental. | [14:37] |
| diana_coman: | you're asking me? lol look at implementation that it becomes exactly that: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/10/smg-comms-chapter-7-readwrite-serpent-keysets-tofrom-serpent-messages/#selection-71.1721-71.1777 | [14:37] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, the problem (if there is one) is not space in itself for sure | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing the solution as implemented is perfectly fine sure, not a one-line record'write or something like that but not a terrible thing either | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | for the other I really don't see how exactly to have at the same time flexible size (specifying n and then n* IS flexible size) AND record'write | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | basically the only way is that: put always max and just write somewhere how much of that is actually meaningful | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | in which case fine, it can perhaps even work like that for most messages except stuff that has max>message size and/or stuff that has meaningful data *after* this variable part | [14:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman the reason n is there is to tell you how much data is useful. what if you fixed n to max at depack size, and then delivered n=max records to application, and it is ITS job to discard the extras ? | [14:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | or does this just move the problem really ? | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | this is what I had in mind it helps but: diana_coman> in which case fine, it can perhaps even work like that for most messages except stuff that has max>message size and/or stuff that has meaningful data *after* this variable part | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | i.e. it should be the last thing in the message | [14:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | why ? | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | so that the "not meaningful" is essentially padding | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, maybe I don't get what you mean then | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | if you have n and then n*x and then something else | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | it's not going to fit "max", is it? | [14:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | otoh i don't really want all the structure at one side of message for crypto-shamanistic considerations. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | if you have however n and then max and then whatever then sure, yes | [14:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | the idea was to define n as a ada-style var, "from 1 to 19" | [14:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | not as a c-style var, "6 bits" | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | that in itself doesn't solve the issue | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | in implementation it gets defined as such although it still gets represented on 8 bits because thus specified logically speaking it shouldn't be on 8 bits to represent ...40 max so yes, it makes sense to say, pack | [14:55] |
| diana_coman: | but the issue was re what follows | [14:55] |
| diana_coman: | if it is described as a variable length i.e. n* ... then it's variable, what can I do | [14:55] |
| diana_coman: | the only other option is to say it's always nmax*... | [14:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. and you can make it always nmax | [15:05] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: it's perfectly permissible to define, e.g., subtype foo 1 .. 40 of a 2**5 modular type that lives in 5bits and catch the out-of-range eggog when reading it | [15:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | because whatever is there extra is padding. so instead of returning 6 correct records and discarding 2 records' worth of padding, you return 8 records, and let the application asking for records figure out that "6" means it needn't process 7 and 8 | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | yes, that's what I had in mind and I think it does solve the problem because it effectively fixes the size, yes | [15:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | only question is if this gains anything or just pushes some garbage downstream | [15:12] |
| asciilifeform: | btw diana_coman , i repeatedly refer to 'nqb' but it not yet got genesis'd, i did however gnathtml-ize it for reference : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nqb/index.htm fwiw | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, myeah, whether there IS a problem really or not quite | [15:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | tbh this is a fundamental issue here anyway. data serialization, we haven't invented, it isn't going away. gotta set down a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764004 thing for "how we expect you to serialize". | [15:18] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-04 17:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, absent this logical rule, we'll do what, add "wordwrap(magicnumber" in the unloved v style manual ? | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | to be used generally, eg when we replace php lol. | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | prolly should've been less of an asshole, linked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865314 instead. but anyway. | [15:19] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!) | [15:19] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: fwiw i've found that the ada standard serialization, with the streams, does in fact work as specified. however i have not used in battlefield, remains to be properly exercised. | [15:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | moreover, THIS is what a language.io stdlib should even fucking be in the first place. | [15:21] |
| asciilifeform: | http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nqb/varints__adb.htm is example. ( actually worx ) | [15:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | "do it like this because smarter people than you sat down once and figured it ALL out, and go read logs if you have issues" | [15:21] |
| asciilifeform: | ( for ref -- 'nqb' in last test ate the 1st 500k blox, correctly recomputed their tx hashes then subjected it to random bit-flippage, correctly barfed in each test ) | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870659 - as far as I can tell it's actually a WordPress "feature" where it converts text smileys to graphic images (the 8) is "cool") I disabled it now from Settings->Writing, if anyone else runs into this shit | [15:34] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 19:29 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870634 -> lol, I'll fix | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | Mocky_ incidentally, now that you've rested, spending a few weeks publishing fleshouts / completing things / etc will be invaluable. | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | get that memory in bit format before it volatiles away. | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ << did we ever discuss this ? :D | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870622 is linked to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850462 but I fail to see/recall some agreement that "we now first try as it is, then if it fails, try flipped" | [15:51] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 16:56 asciilifeform: also how come you need procedure Cast_LE( LE: in out Raw_Types.Octets ) ? i thought the algo was 'if message invalid, flip endianism in whole thing and re-eval before discard' | [15:51] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-09-14 17:09 mircea_popescu: iirc we even had a discussion re standardizing a byte order though from the fact that i don't recall the results i take it i got shown broken cats. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose better link is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850415 | [15:53] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-09-14 16:27 asciilifeform: to round out thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850330 << in my orig udp attempt, i dispensed with the traditional 'gotta be in network byte order (tm)' doctrine, in favour of 'if packet doesn't pass muster, THEN flip the endianism and try again 1ce' | [15:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman screw that, what "tries" | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | I also don't get why to do that really, hence current code that doesn't do it, no (what it does is to simply check if local machine is big endian in which case it flips octets of anything on more than 1 octet) | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose the idea there was to *not* specify byte order at all | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | hence try because you ..don't know in which byte order it is | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | so perhaps I get the *why* but I don't buy it for a communication protocol, just why to "not know" | [15:59] |
| asciilifeform: | iirc it was mircea_popescu who orig suggested the algo to me | [16:06] |
| * asciilifeform | digs in l0gz.. | [16:06] |
| asciilifeform: | so far found http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850460 thrd | [16:07] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-09-14 17:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850418 << yes, none of that. | [16:07] |
| asciilifeform: | formula was, there are 2 possible states, 'as it came' and 'flipped', and at most 1 of these can ever pass checksum | [16:08] |
| asciilifeform: | so you find which one does, and beyond that there is no reason to ever think about endianism | [16:08] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i.e. 2 boxes with opposite endianisms, can speak , via this algo, without any other endian-specific logics ) | [16:08] |
| Mocky: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870721 >> aye | [16:09] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 20:35 mircea_popescu: get that memory in bit format before it volatiles away. | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870722 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816466 | [16:10] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 20:37 mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ << did we ever discuss this ? :D | [16:10] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-05-22 03:57 asciilifeform: !!rate Mocky 1 'why ada' | [16:10] |
| asciilifeform: | ( excellent log walk, imho ) | [16:10] |
| * asciilifeform | recently had the pleasure of rereading Mocky's 'why ada'. turns it the walk to ada was longer/thornier than asciilifeform remembers it being | [16:19] |
| mod6: | An update on Pizarro's statement for October: BingoBoingo has a draft, of which I've poured through. We seem to have more BTC on hand then is adding up at the moment. So we're going to be auditing some previous statements to see where the problem might be. | [16:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 coming on the heels of the misspecced auction and so on, this looks terrifying. | [16:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | are you going for the mismanagement triple crown or what is it with you ? | [16:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's a grind | [16:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | the grind is going the wrong way. from "you realise these dudes haven't managed to publish a report on time yet" the expectation is "well, next month they will", not "and next month -- new math!" | [16:40] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6: he's right, y'know. and at this point i would not be averse to spending some coin and hiring an l1 accountant, if the necessary hero arises ( jurov ? hanbot ? ) | [16:52] |
| asciilifeform: | incidentally what's the status of ben_vulpes ? is he still spending all of his time building fence around old house, or what was it | [16:54] |
| asciilifeform: | !#seen ben_vulpes | [16:54] |
| a111: | 2018-11-04 <ben_vulpes> will be making new contacts in the next month to find a shared cab for racking the foundation machine i lugged across the continent | [16:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | at some point along the way mod6 has turned from "heart of reliability, solid fellow" to "everything this guy touches will explode in shocking ways and half the time silently". i wish to identify when this happened i wish to indentify how and why it happened. and i wish it fucking fixed, preferably right the fuck immediately what the fuck. | [16:54] |
| * asciilifeform | brb,meat | [16:55] |
| mod6: | <+mircea_popescu> mod6 coming on the heels of the misspecced auction and so on, this looks terrifying. << Yeah, I screwed up the auction. I apologize. We had hoped to get some oversight on the last months statement from pizarro but it didn't happen. It might not even be incorrect, and BingoBoingo's draft might not be even incorrect. | [16:58] |
| mod6: | I just have very little clue on this accounting stuff. And other things, it's apparent. | [16:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | oversight from whom ? | [16:58] |
| mod6: | ben_vulpes was going to look it over, but I don't think he had a chance. | [16:58] |
| mod6: | jurov didn't want to touch pizarro or its accounting. so that's out, I tried to hire him months ago. | [16:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [16:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | in the traditional structure of business, the manager is the manager and the board provides oversight. if the ~board~ itself needs oversight, well, generally it gets reshuffled. cuz that's what it is, the final overseer. | [16:59] |
| mod6: | mircea_popescu: I'm sorry you've lost faith in me, and if I could some how fix it, I would. The only thing I can figure that is wrong here is that I'm in way over my head. | [17:00] |
| hanbot: | fwiw mod6 still figures as "heart of reliability, solid fellow" in my book. he stepped up to some (afaik alien to him) challenges lately and while it may be rough going, i've never seen a drop in commitment from the guy. just sayin'. | [17:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | hanbot the idea of this here republic isn't "the cult of wearing blessed pants". that's mormonism. nor is it "the cult of all reading the new yorker". that's pantsuitism. the idea of this republic is, "we're going to GROW WITH IT". | [17:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | it started as a modest token on a "magic : the gathering" exchange, and it is moving to take over the world. it requires GROWTH. | [17:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | gotta learn new things, and be damn good at them. gotta go new places. gotta master new things. it's entirely what it is. all it is. | [17:01] |
| mod6: | I am trying to learn all of this stuff It has been difficult as some things come easy for me, but a lot of what is important in what I think you're frustrated with has not come easy. | [17:03] |
| hanbot: | mircea_popescu: surething. i'm saying i don't think growing pains == unreliability in any sense. | [17:03] |
| mod6: | The acution for instance, was just a careless oversight on my part. But the accounting stuff, this is something pretty far out of my wheelhouse. | [17:04] |
| mod6: | I'm trying to get both BingoBoingo and myself better at this -- but as it is, it's like the blind leading the blind. | [17:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 i'll tell you, it is fucking painful to have to argue n times over the "here's auction system fucking use it". alf in his worse days, years ago, presented similar challenges. makes me feel like i'm fucking pushing the grain into the chicken, why the fuck would i, let it fucking starve. | [17:04] |
| mod6: | (no offense to BingoBoingo who's doing as good of a job as can be expected with not much to go on) | [17:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's infuriating to see movements a la "oh, ima hijack this foundation thingee to crash your standards process", whether meant as that or not. | [17:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | and in general, i can't fathom as we stand right now whence your troubles come. | [17:05] |
| mod6: | what do you mean about the 'hijack the foundation standards process' ? | [17:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | in a most remote, theoretical principle it'd be something like "well, he's either a) lazy or else b) committed to not getting out of a confort zone he delineated silently and that's that or c) he's overwhelmed". now which of these is it ? | [17:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | i said hijach ~the foundation~ to crash ~my~ standards process. | [17:07] |
| mod6: | is this in reference to the keccak vtree? | [17:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes. | [17:07] |
| mod6: | I think this was just a misunderstanding, poor communication on my part. | [17:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | having your hands on the levers of power means that, "whether meant as such or not", what you do is what you do. | [17:08] |
| mod6: | I want to do this, and get a keccak vtree. I think I said as much at the time, just wanted to ensure that keccak was in working order before we moved to it. I thought that to be the most prudent thing to do. | [17:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | i get it, not meant as such. | [17:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | moving on : which of the three is it then ? | [17:09] |
| mod6: | Well, I think I have a lot on my plate, and we've discussed that. So I'd say 'c'. Overwhelmed. Too much to work on, and not enough time/hands to do it in. | [17:10] |
| mod6: | But maybe others disagree. I don't think it's 'a'. | [17:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | do me a favour and publish a week's timetable retrospective and the coming week's prospective on your blog ? | [17:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | gotta get into the nitty gritty of this, because i gotta tell you, i publish, on time and for years, 3x or more of the report count you have, and it's a few hours' worth if that. | [17:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | gotta find what exactly is fucking you over before it actually does fuck you over. | [17:11] |
| mod6: | Well, in regards to the statement, specifically, I only got the draft of the statement from BingoBoingo on the 7th. And been going through it since then. | [17:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | "what i have been doing, nov 4th - november 11th" "what i intend to be doing, nov 11th - nov 18th". | [17:13] |
| mod6: | Alright. I'll put together a blog post. | [17:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | ty. | [17:16] |
| deedbot: | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic Projected Release Timeline. | [18:51] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ mircea_popescu , diana_coman , other potential ffa eaters ^ | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform my problem with "trying" is that you're stuck trying your serpent keys on stuff. | [18:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | nice! | [18:52] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: serpent's constanttime tho | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | but slow. | [18:55] |
| asciilifeform: | is it ? | [18:55] |
| asciilifeform: | hm | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | in order to support diff endianism i gotta pay the cost of processing twice. | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dunno i like alt-endian systems enough to support them\ | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | besides -- let them build in converters. | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | cost on them. | [18:55] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: you only gotta 'process twice' for rubbish packets ( if legit fella has bigendian, he gets 'twiced' once and flag is set for his connection ) but yes | [18:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | (speaking of -- tmsr.net will be sane endian, not historical-endian, also) | [18:56] |
| asciilifeform: | this is legit, ' mircea_popescu's server is little-endian and if your client aint, flip ~yours~ ) | [18:56] |
| asciilifeform: | ' | [18:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | one of the few advantages of the client-server model. | [18:56] |
| asciilifeform: | ftr i still dun have a bigendian box to even try any of this with. | [18:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | nor diana nor can i be arsed to dig through mp's packed museum | [18:57] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i got one coming in a week or so, tho, for ffa exhaustive tests ) | [18:57] |
| asciilifeform: | !#s 46.4.97.119 | [19:03] |
| a111: | 0 results for "46.4.97.119", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=46.4.97.119 | [19:03] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ yet-another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870599 -ism | [19:03] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-10 14:32 asciilifeform: in other noose, yet-another http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-05-nov-2018#2493396 found : 108.170.1.134 | [19:03] |
| asciilifeform: | btw if nobody indicates giving a damn, i'ma leave off cataloging these, i can't think of any use for'em | [19:04] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: re 'bigendian box' -- i invested in one of them 'asic emulator' mega-fpga thingies, it so happens to come with 2 ppc cores on board, can double as bigendism test system. | [19:05] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: after ffa/p beta rollout, i'ma be at yer service for the next thing ( fg2? tmsr.mips ? radio ? or other, take yer pick ) | [19:10] |
| asciilifeform: | plenty of time to think. | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | you don't feel like moving to uruguay, trying to get a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844323 off the ground i take it ? | [19:13] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-08-24 18:39 mircea_popescu: a shop of used computer parts is a great complement for a dc op. | [19:13] |
| asciilifeform: | not just yet | [19:14] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and imho it's a somewhat dubious item, it isn't clear to me that anyone outside of us in BingoBoingostan actually ~uses computer~ ) | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | at that level of abstraction, leaking the empire's artefacts selectively into the frankistans is god's work. | [19:15] |
| asciilifeform: | there were quite tall piles of iron at the flea market, and nobody was buying ( i walked for ~4h and it appears to have moved not an inch ) | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes but oddly he can never seem to source anything locally. | [19:15] |
| asciilifeform: | besides, if i make my escape to BingoBoingostan, who will ferry the irons from ebayistan in suitcases. | [19:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | you lol. | [19:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | contrary to your "i have no marketable skills" claims, it turns out you were quite successful at nontrivial task. | [19:17] |
| asciilifeform: | erry dog knows 1 trick, heh | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | considering that the average-without-you was pretty sorry indeed. | [19:17] |
| asciilifeform: | now if them monkeys actually knew what to do with comps... | [19:17] |
| asciilifeform: | i'm thinking the terraformed-c101pa is potentially saleable tho. | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | alternatively, you could do a mocky, but @shenzen. | [19:20] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and even the serpent disk thing, even, if we ever get around to baking it ) | [19:20] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: presently i have a quite rare & advantageous ( 0 commute ) saecular throne i'd rather not yet vacate | [19:23] |
| asciilifeform: | but shenzhen is attractive, gotta learn moar hieroglyphs tho | [19:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | otherwise you're rather in the position of the fellow who's dedicated his life to studying catholic architecture but never visited spain. | [19:24] |
| asciilifeform: | indeed | [19:24] |
| asciilifeform: | or classicist who never turkeyed | [19:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | and so on | [19:24] |
| asciilifeform: | verily | [19:24] |
| asciilifeform: | i knew it is in the cards when we first spoke seriously of baking ic, tho, so picked up (cutting through considerable loathing for hieroglyph..) the subj, a while back. | [19:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | im not even so sure hieroglyphs per se are either arequirement or even useful. | [19:26] |
| asciilifeform: | now i'm curious. how wouldja propose to get by without'em ? ask for contracts etc in the king's engl ?! | [19:26] |
| asciilifeform: | i thought the basic winning theorem of orc-craft was to go in as a properly-literate, vs. 'idjit englisher' | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | all the useful anthropological information (such as http://mocky.org/Zombies-Gamers-and-Lost-Souls/ ) will not be found in the http://trilema.com/2018/actual-anthropology-yet-another-minor-function-of-the-functioning-harem/#selection-89.21-89.37 morons' spew. | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | the squigglies, like garnish, once you're in consolidation phase. | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform in their own eyes englisher is supremely literate. | [19:27] |
| asciilifeform: | there is a considerable, btw, number of ru folx working with cn . possibly also angle. | [19:28] |
| * asciilifeform | quite ill-versed, presently, in matters cn, this will have to be corrected | [19:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | prolly great angle, really. | [19:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | use ru to dig in. | [19:31] |
| mod6: | http://mod6.net/2018/November/10/timetable_first_half_nov.txt | [19:31] |
| asciilifeform: | from ru folx's reports 'from the ground' , would seem that it is less of a 'miamistan' than Mocky's arabs, typical folx, even moneyed, not deeply into english. but ru is diff matter. | [19:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | i could see why. | [19:31] |
| asciilifeform: | oh wow mod6's diary | [19:31] |
| mod6: | The times that I've put in there are a bit subject, my irc client runs on UTC time, and the logs the same, and we've had DLST here this week. I've tried to be as honest with the thing as I can be. | [19:32] |
| * asciilifeform | takes off hat | [19:32] |
| * mircea_popescu | was mostly looking for republican hours, rather than everything, but nothing wrong with item as is. | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6 i marvel that you are able to do anyffing! mine consists largely of 'eat','sleep','fuck','xx hours at console' | [19:33] |
| mod6: | As I said, I do not have much time. I do what I can. But I know it's not good enough. | [19:34] |
| asciilifeform: | tho i did have to clear jungle today, it was approaching impassable | [19:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> there were quite tall piles of iron at the flea market, and nobody was buying ( i walked for ~4h and it appears to have moved not an inch ) << asciilifeform has a hell of an eye, the local ebayazon suggests richer variety of golden junk in Argentina | [19:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | <mircea_popescu> yes but oddly he can never seem to source anything locally. << Slowly improving | [19:35] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: recall mircea_popescu's minitower in argentina ? | [19:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | And on this note at the end of the month girl will be visiting her Tía in Argentina. Anyone have shopping list items they want investigated? | [19:36] |
| asciilifeform: | recall what passes for a comp there | [19:36] |
| mod6: | BingoBoingo: I'm gonna look at your invoice numbers now. | [19:37] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: 8tb hdds preferably 'seagate' | [19:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: For example if you want a PPC machine to test big endian, all your choices in Uruguay are notebooks with old firehazard batteries. Argentina has "Mac Mini G4" | [19:37] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6: plz dun assume that i am ignoring your mails ! was tied up with straightening own '10 pounds of shit in 1 pound bag', will attend to them asap | [19:38] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: i'm presently unconvinced that crapple iron with the horsepower of a rk but the footprint of pc, belongs in the rack ( tho will listen to reason if anybody wants to argue the opposite, or for that matter contract to colo one ) | [19:39] |
| mod6: | asciilifeform: alright | [19:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | so to summarize : 1. one hour (!?) wrangling with auctionbot on the 4th (the result still wrong) 2. 2 hours handling three conflated processes (why do you keep notes as an intermediate step ?) on the 5th 3. 1 hour reading logs on the 6th 4. half hour reading logs on the 7th 5. 1.3 h mostly brainstorming on the 8th ? 6. half hour doing... i don't know what on the 9th 7. 4 (four ?!) hours doing i still don't know wh | [19:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | at 8. 2 hours preparing and publishing some data to give base to future rescue op. | [19:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | is this correct then ? | [19:40] |
| mod6: | Let me work through it here... | [19:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | because it'd seem to me your week consists by this logic of 12 to 13 hours of, making the timetable (15%), reading logs (13%), and it's not clear to me what (75%). | [19:41] |
| mod6: | #1 was halfhour. i remember it being not 3 seconds because I had to look up the bot commands and try to get that correct, etc. despite the fact that I made it for the wrong amount. | [19:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | how you manage to cram a week's worth of logs in an hour and a half for instance is anyone's guess, god knows my girls don't manage -- it eats in excess of 10 hours weekly, and noobs such as the bimbo are well over the 25 hour mark week in week out. | [19:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's anyone's experience btw ? cca how long does it take to ~keep current~ with logs on a weekly basis ? | [19:42] |
| mod6: | Well, as for the logs, I read what I can on the train. | [19:42] |
| mod6: | So usually that leaves 30min-1hour per night, sometimes more depending on the size. Sometimes I fall down a well in the logs if i'm looking for something specific related to any number of things: pizarro, foundation, ada, ffa, who knows. | [19:43] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: i 'cheat' by having logs on dedicated panel in peripheral vision at all times when awake. but when waking up sometimes 20-30min catchup, ditto when venturing into meatspace and returning (for as much as whole day ) can be >hr | [19:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | happens to me also. | [19:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | both of these lol. | [19:43] |
| asciilifeform: | i also have a portable gsm heathen thing that displays logs (but i do not like to speak through it) | [19:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | <mircea_popescu> what's anyone's experience btw ? cca how long does it take to ~keep current~ with logs on a weekly basis ? << I do anywhere from 2 to nearly 4 hours a day on logs when rabbitholing is factored in | [19:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | god knows i sank hours into documentary wells for various edge discussions (bout half of which end up published, mostly because i'm fascist with "in other news" style segues but many do not, as it's "yup, was right" or such) | [19:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 it seems a necessary that you're overwhelmed, if your time budged to do TWO board jobs AND logs is about half what people use to do just the latter part. | [19:45] |
| mod6: | for #2: We keep the notes so we know what's going on with all the customer accounts, our ledgers, and general information about on-goings of the business. This is necessary so we don't have to log-spelunk everything. Logs don't work all the time, like right now, the logging for #pizarro is down. | [19:45] |
| mod6: | brb, being called awayh | [19:46] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 has 2 ( 3? 4? ) children, even. but soldiers on. | [19:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | i am not impugning the man. | [19:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | now about this missing payment... did i not pay something ? | [19:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!received-invoices | [19:48] |
| deedbot: | http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Riwj5/?raw=true | [19:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: You have an open invoice for the S.MG test machine | [19:48] |
| asciilifeform: | btw the inventory shows that disks are available for that machine, if mircea_popescu & co want it fully en-disked. | [19:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | The disks are indeed available | [19:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | a dang, sorry about that. | [19:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | i seriously ate hours of your combined time because forgot to send a v ? | [19:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: My inclination is to wait and ping when we send the next round of invoices, but the man is overwhelmed | [19:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 2 | [19:51] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Yu9L8/?raw=true | [19:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo seems entirely reasonable to me tbh. | [19:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | is this the "accounting issue" then ? or was there more to the mystery ? | [19:53] |
| mod6: | for #3 Again, yeah, I'm sure I did it, may have been an hour. More or less. Those two days (6th and 7th), I recall being pretty busy, but other than the usual stuff, I can't really what I got distracted by. | [19:55] |
| mod6: | *can't really recall what I got distracted by | [19:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | The accounting issue is mod6 has more Pizarro cash than the October draft statement calculated by applying the net change to the previous month's cash account says he should. | [19:55] |
| mod6: | Which also covers #4 | [19:55] |
| mod6: | # 5: Yes, that's pretty much accurate | [19:56] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl, cycling through the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-11#1870866 register | [19:56] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-11-11 00:33 asciilifeform: mod6 i marvel that you are able to do anyffing! mine consists largely of 'eat','sleep','fuck','xx hours at console' | [19:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 the two prongs of the problem seem to be, principally that you have a lot less time available for this than ~most everyone else, by a factor of 2 or more and secondarily that elementary tasks that should take an hour or thereabouts take you multiples, by a factor of 3 or 5 or who knows. | [19:57] |
| mod6: | #6 Yes, what I did is in the blog-post there. | [19:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | given this articulation, i agree with asciilifeform , it's a wonder you can keep functioning / managed as long as you have. | [19:57] |
| mod6: | #7 yes, is accurate. | [19:57] |
| mod6: | I'm fairly busy, yea. | [19:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | When I started helping mod6 transition out of the intermin management responsibility, I erred judging that keeping mod6 in charge of the cash account would distribute stress instead of amplifying it. My bad. | [19:58] |
| mod6: | Normally I do tend to work slow so I ensure that my work is accurate, despite recent fuck-ups, which I agree with MP, are not my normal thing. But yes, I'm way overloaded. And it's been hard to keep up with anything foundation related since Pizarro. Especially since Ben left. | [19:59] |
| mod6: | I'd have to say, I was just doing enough to get us by with the Foundation (library) stuff before Pizarro. Much less, even getting a Stanford and world-class embassy. | [20:00] |
| mod6: | I have the hunger to do much. But I fear that I've bitten off more than I can chew -- especially with things that are not in my wheelhouse that really take-away time, or slow down other progress. This being accounting things, or other management stuff. | [20:02] |
| mod6: | I remember when keeping up with the logs + trb + v really felt like a ton of stuff. But that stuff has been wholesale replaced + some even, by pizarro. | [20:03] |
| mod6: | The sad part is, I was good at the former stuff, not so good at the latter stuff. | [20:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | mod6: With respect to Pizarro, you probably ought to just focus on reconciling the cash account to account for the surplus. As you have time to spend on that task. | [20:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | But as overstuffed as your agenda is, that pressure can't help your error rate. | [20:13] |
| mod6: | Yeah, I'm gonna try to stick to the schedule I posted, and get some food now. When I get back, I'll work on the accounting surplus. | [20:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | Once the surplus is accounted for, make your next Pizarro priority a beach vacation before fall hits and the water gets cold. Arrive on a Friday or Saturday to get your odinsleep, we'll hit up the Feria Sunday and tour the rack Sunday or Monday. After you comfort yourself through seeing the hardware I'll put you on a bus to see all those cool beaches on the east coast I hear so much about but don't have the opportunity to check out | [20:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | myself. | [20:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | The familial relationship of Concubine is recognized under Uruguayo law. I am pretty sure the icy north recognizes Shariah law (as established in Rotterdam) by now, so if the local government frowns upon the relationship you develop with a Chileña you can tell them to respect your cultural differences. | [20:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe you bring some hardware down, but keep it low stress if you do. | [20:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | Also, ice cream. | [20:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | AND NOW WE HAVE UNEXPLAINED FIREWORKS STORM | [20:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not New Years quality, but Christmas quality | [20:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 the problem with "accounting things" is that they're a fundamental life skill i can scarcely imagine how you get through the days of your life without as much accounting as is here required. think that you're not asked to upload in head the many volumes of gaap arcana, but merely some very basic "this plus that is the other" sorta stuff, and the complaint sounds somewhat like gravedigger's disdain of readin', takes tim | [20:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | e away from diggin'. | [20:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | Definitely more than for any World Cup round | [20:55] |
| mod6: | mircea_popescu: fair enough. ben said something to me on the phone, "double entry accounting". I don't even know what that is. But, my guess is that I'm supposed to know. | [21:30] |
| mod6: | At one point, I could balance my checkbook. Now, I don't even do that, computer does it for me. | [21:31] |
| mod6: | So my accounting skillz, are basically epsilon. | [21:31] |
| mod6: | Got a lot to learn I guess. But this is totally something I've never even thought about before. | [21:32] |
| mod6: | I wanted to hire an accountant / CFO / whatever for the work, even back when ben was working on Pizarro -- so he could focus more on sales. But no takers. | [21:36] |
| mod6: | But, well, here we are. | [21:36] |
| mod6: | Anyway, i'm gonna be looking for that error. | [21:36] |
| lobbes: | mod6: the key idea behind double-entry accounting is that for every transaction you are involving at least two accounts. E.g. If you pay your water bill from your checking account you'd record a decrease (credit) to your checking account, and record an increase (debit) to your water bill expense account | [22:36] |
| lobbes: | benefit being that over time you have all of your various things accounted for in different piles. Can answer business questions like "how much did I pay for water between time t0 and t1?" really easily | [22:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: How does your schedule look over the next 3 months? | [22:37] |
| lobbes: | I'ma be doing the holiday travel thing for a week this month and a week next month. Other than that, just the usual $saltmine 9-5 and then squeezing in republican workload where able | [22:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: I ask because it is clear Republican outreach has dropped since cazalla retired and danielpbarron turned hard towards his other cult | [22:52] |
| trinque: | mod6: you don't need a CFO to count the amount of money you guys are moving | [23:01] |
| trinque: | you need to quit circumambulating and run some ads, contact folks you think might be good candidates for clients, literally anything | [23:02] |
| trinque: | and more fundamentally, consider that when you persist in doing things the wrong way (like, do you even have a spreadsheet for this thing) you're probably caught in an avoidance loop of the "I don't even want to be doing this" variety | [23:05] |
| lobbes: | gnucash ftw! | [23:05] |
| lobbes: | BingoBoingo: on the other hand, we have Mocky who just returned from some serious outreaching | [23:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: we do have that indeed | [23:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | trinque: We have a text file. | [23:08] |
| trinque: | is there some kind of christian purity involved in the tool choice? | [23:10] |
| trinque: | or does that conveniently suck time from productive activity | [23:10] |
| trinque: | I ftr don't see why BingoBoingo doesn't run the thing, as mircea_popescu has also amply wtf'd | [23:11] |
| * trinque | bbl | [23:11] |
| lobbes: | mod6: I also recommend getting a proper mp-wp up and running. As someone who also tried to stick with the 'manual html' route, I vastly underestimated the communicative power of a proper blogotron (the speed-up-to-post, the catagorizing, the deedbot announces, comments, pingbacks, etc etc) | [23:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | trinque: We have a legacy hairball to untangle. I encouraged mod6 to continue on with managing the cash account, decentralizing and in the process creating a bigger mess. | [23:14] |
| mod6: | Ok, so I'm gonna call it a night. What I do know at this point is the ``surplus'' that we're seeing in the statements goes back at least through the August report. However, I'm not even certain at this point if what I'm seeing is actually incorrect, as I said earlier. Or if I just don't understand what I'm looking at. There's a strong chance that I just don't understand it. | [23:16] |
| mod6: | Perhaps I can convince ben_vulpes to help take a look at it with us. | [23:17] |
| * mod6 | is out | [23:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | Whatever you do mod6 don't nightmare about the accounting when you sleep. Have sweet dreams of Cabo Polonia, the lobos marinos, and the brasileras | [23:17] |
Category: Logs
