Forum logs for 08 Aug 2019
mircea_popescu: | dun dun dun. | [15:43] |
lobbesbot: | mircea_popescu: Sent 2 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, and 14 minutes ago: <mp_en_viaje> remember you wanted to !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 | [15:43] |
mircea_popescu: | damn. i'm not gonna do that now wth. | [15:44] |
asciilifeform: | ohai mircea_popescu | [15:44] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: if you voice the thing , it'll echo | [15:44] |
mircea_popescu: | one sec let me figure out how the fuck you handle the autovoice lists | [15:44] |
mircea_popescu: | poor guy. | [15:46] |
asciilifeform: | !qhelp | [15:50] |
snsabot: | asciilifeform: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [15:50] |
asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926179 | [15:50] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 15:43:31 mircea_popescu: dun dun dun. | [15:50] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu ^ worx | [15:50] |
mircea_popescu: | i don't fucking get it though. how the fuck do lobbesbot and scriba have voice ? | [15:50] |
mircea_popescu: | they're not autovoiced, did deedbot give it to them ? | [15:51] |
asciilifeform: | gotta ask'em | [15:51] |
mircea_popescu: | can you grep your log see plox ? | [15:51] |
BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: deedbot gave 'em voice | [15:51] |
asciilifeform: | * lobbesbot (~limnoria@104.244.76.215) has joined #trilema | [15:51] |
asciilifeform: | * deedbot gives voice to lobbesbot | [15:51] |
mircea_popescu: | soooo.... lobbes knows how to do this rsa thing huh | [15:52] |
asciilifeform: | so, hm, loox like he has gpgism ? or, did trinque have speshulcase table | [15:52] |
mircea_popescu: | props lobbes. | [15:52] |
asciilifeform: | lessee what he says | [15:52] |
mircea_popescu: | aite, im not gonna add auctionbot and lobbesbot to +V list then, because they're like... the only bots that don't suck ? | [15:52] |
mircea_popescu: | blessed be the innocent, they don't even know what happened lolz. | [15:53] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: more interestingly, asciilifeform found that he has py-de-gpgation thing already lying around from when wrote snsa-shop telecontroller. so actually can bolt it on. would rather genesis current ver 1st tho. | [15:54] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, sure. | [15:54] |
asciilifeform: | !q src | [15:54] |
snsabot: | asciilifeform: my source code can be seen at: http://not.yet | [15:54] |
asciilifeform: | ^ will point to vpatch... | [15:54] |
mircea_popescu: | nice! | [15:55] |
mircea_popescu: | alrighty, looks like http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/ is now undone. welcome back everyone! | [15:55] |
* asciilifeform | pleased to be back on the air ! | [15:55] |
mircea_popescu: | is there more stuff i need to do while op'd actually ? | [15:56] |
PeterL: | good to see things back up and running! | [15:56] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: maybe add the logger www to banner ? if you feel like | [15:56] |
asciilifeform: | PeterL: there's still coupla missing knobs in www logotron (quoted strings for search pagination for same backlinkage) | [15:57] |
mircea_popescu: | hey BingoBoingo now that i can drop it in, do you recall the lafond article in question ? i remember fucking reading it, but i can't find it again / | [15:57] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, actually, ima edit the join message. | [15:57] |
asciilifeform: | worx | [15:57] |
mircea_popescu: | -ChanServ- [#trilema] To speak in #trilema you must be voiced. If you have a RSA key registered with deedbot, send !!up to it in a private message, decrypt the challenge string and return it with !!v else politely ask one of the voiced people to voice you. << meanwhile became total bs. | [15:57] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: lemme know if you want the clock fiddled, i think it's gmt right nao | [15:58] |
mircea_popescu: | i dun care tbh. i move too much anyway | [15:58] |
asciilifeform: | aite then! | [15:59] |
BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: https://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4309 | [15:59] |
asciilifeform: | re mircea_popescu's postmortem -- perhaps phf still in bed half-dead, but wtf was errybody else's excuse. | [16:00] |
mircea_popescu: | /msg ChanServ SET #trilema ENTRYMSG To speak here you must be voiced by one of the lords. Talk to asciilifeform , BingoBoingo , diana_coman , hanbot , trinque | [16:00] |
mircea_popescu: | ^ anyone else actively maintaining a castle i forgot in the list ? | [16:01] |
mircea_popescu: | or anyone want off it ? | [16:01] |
asciilifeform: | would say mod6 but dunno if 'active' | [16:01] |
mircea_popescu: | i wouldn't send anyone to learn from mod6 as things stand. | [16:01] |
asciilifeform: | fwiw i left him out of the init roster. if he comes back to life will consider to add | [16:01] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu lemme know at any pt if you want chans in there (i think i got all the currently alive people) | [16:01] |
mircea_popescu: | chans huh ? | [16:02] |
mircea_popescu: | oh, added to logger ? #eulora plox | [16:02] |
PeterL: | maybe point to the castles? (Bingoboingo at #pizarro, etc) but that might make the message too long? | [16:02] |
asciilifeform: | iirc there was >1 eulora ? (eulora-debug) or sumthing | [16:02] |
mircea_popescu: | i dunno, i only read this and #eulora lolz | [16:02] |
asciilifeform: | then i think we're current | [16:02] |
mircea_popescu: | PeterL, let the lord make that call i think. | [16:02] |
PeterL: | yeah, I guess if somebody messages you then you can just say "talk to me in #whatever" | [16:03] |
mircea_popescu: | yes. or not. | [16:03] |
asciilifeform: | nao in re mechanicals -- bot is written from 0 using bare sockets. www end and bot eat a common config, there are nomoar 'magic' constants in the proggy. so it will be pretty simple to set up mirrors after genesis, if anyone is up to it | [16:05] |
asciilifeform: | also all of this wasn't particularly hard, lobbes gave up imho too quickly. | [16:05] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926179 << ok well, this seems to be back then. #trilema is again in session, hear ye hear ye, all pleas will be heard and all claims will be settled. speak your mind, we're back in business. | [16:05] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 15:43:31 mircea_popescu: dun dun dun. | [16:05] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, pretty cool. | [16:07] |
asciilifeform: | pre-gen. sneakpeak of botism. | [16:08] |
asciilifeform: | which reminds me, another phfism i gotta clone, that paste-stasher | [16:08] |
mircea_popescu: | yes, that's quite useful. | [16:08] |
asciilifeform: | i cannot resist to ask, where the everliving fuck was trinque during all of this. | [16:10] |
asciilifeform: | ( if let's say i needed to move a coin, would have moved ? or also out to lunch ) | [16:10] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, also, the gfx part plox. | [16:11] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, one way to find out. | [16:11] |
mircea_popescu: | afaik he never was more than a day or so moving coin. | [16:11] |
mircea_popescu: | which was the original spec. | [16:11] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: after genesis will be pretty easy to stand up local copy. so in fact if you like can set the colours in person and vpatch, i will read, sign, upload to dulap.. | [16:12] |
mircea_popescu: | i guess there's no way i can wiggle out of this, is there | [16:12] |
mircea_popescu: | i guess we find out if i can vpatch while traveling. | [16:12] |
asciilifeform: | well can also do like we did FG site and mircea_popescu write 'hey make the grey deeper' and then asciilifeform goes an' turns knob. but, will take longer i expect. | [16:13] |
mircea_popescu: | do you realise every time i do a keyop it's ~half hour of slavegirl time going blind on asciisoup ? | [16:13] |
asciilifeform: | sorta how i pictured it, yes | [16:13] |
mircea_popescu: | i mean yes i got multiples, and the flesh is willing... but my spirit's weak, i confess i kinda like them. | [16:14] |
asciilifeform: | this is potentially solvable , if not 'by next week', see also | [16:15] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-07-29 10:21:41 asciilifeform: dun have to be much bigger than fg per se, really. | [16:15] |
mircea_popescu: | yea or i could've jus ttaken ocr guns along. but somehow i was naive, the romanticism of the idea appealed at the onset. | [16:16] |
mircea_popescu: | ohai diana_coman | [16:17] |
* asciilifeform | blows dust off crate of chinese ocr modules he was evaluating in '17 for such use | [16:17] |
asciilifeform: | wb diana_coman | [16:17] |
mircea_popescu: | i have working ocrtron, just, didn't pack it. already diana ross over here, 200+lbs of shit. | [16:17] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: these were pcb-mounted things, for potential inclusion in larger device. | [16:18] |
asciilifeform: | about 30gram ea. | [16:18] |
mircea_popescu: | every time girls start unloading bags airline checkin woman's eyes widen | [16:18] |
diana_coman: | yeee, feels good to be back! | [16:18] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, oh oh. mine are the actual guns. i dunno, not THAT heavy, more bulky i guess. and rigid and so on. i should get newer, but then can you trust newer hardware ? | [16:19] |
mircea_popescu: | diana_coman, do we run a logger on minigame servers btw ? or no webserver keks | [16:19] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, is there any mutualization in the end, or not yet ? imo one massive win would be for loggers to put out ~signed~ dumps so they can mutually sync | [16:20] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: not easy to picture how might fuck up ocr pistol, but i suppose not impossible | [16:20] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: i have a half-written 'raw csv' shitter knob, won't make it into genesis but prolly will be among 1st patches afte | [16:21] |
asciilifeform: | r | [16:21] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, items from the 80s, reliable, because back then um process. items from 2010s, who the fuck knows what ic is in there and what it does / | [16:21] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: i had nfi 'qr' even existed in '80s | [16:21] |
asciilifeform: | who made this ? | [16:21] |
asciilifeform: | or is it plain barcode eater ? | [16:22] |
mircea_popescu: | yup. | [16:22] |
mircea_popescu: | apparently can't find online. japanese thing, white plastic, squarish | [16:23] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: re synced-loggers -- i sat for whole day thinking about this, but in the end came to same conclusion as mircea_popescu , i.e. that it is moar complicated than appears, fleanode will liberally reorder lines | [16:23] |
diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: we don't run a logger the site is on shared hosting with pizarro | [16:23] |
mircea_popescu: | diana_coman, i meant, do you think we should | [16:24] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: something like bitcoin's merkle-style order-indep. hashing would potentially work . but still relies on clock sync, otherwise no 2 boxes have same notion of interval to be hashed | [16:24] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, yeah, though "more reaearch needed", seems direct stepping stone to gossipd after all. | [16:24] |
asciilifeform: | would have to, as i understand, dispense with notion of time, and go by '# lines' | [16:24] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: indeed | [16:25] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu, diana_coman : at the very least, would ~very~ much like there to be at least a 2nd logger, somewhere other than piz, for redundancy | [16:26] |
mircea_popescu: | is the nsa one on piz ? | [16:26] |
asciilifeform: | ( phf's still worx, but i have nfi whether will for how long ) | [16:26] |
mircea_popescu: | doh, of course it is. | [16:26] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: it lives on dulap | [16:27] |
diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: hm the chan is meant to be official rather than community (like eulorum) so I suppose at some point we should, shouldn't we | [16:27] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: and incidentally frontend is based on ye olde phuctor's | [16:27] |
mircea_popescu: | diana_coman, conceivably. besides, he has a point, not bad to have another one. | [16:27] |
mircea_popescu: | though in fact not that great if all on pizarro either | [16:28] |
diana_coman: | well, I surely plan to run another bot myself, yes | [16:28] |
mircea_popescu: | where ? | [16:28] |
asciilifeform: | btw here's a headache : seems like fleanode dun support hashed pw. at all. | [16:29] |
asciilifeform: | it's either sslism or plaintext 'errybody in same cage sees' | [16:29] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, ssl keks | [16:29] |
asciilifeform: | current bot -- the latter | [16:29] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, honestly i wouldn't worry about this, let's see who steals it. | [16:29] |
asciilifeform: | theoretically can sit it down behind znc, and run sslism to fleanode, but i fuckinhate sslism | [16:29] |
diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: no idea yet and on one hand there's merit to "other than pizarro" but onth ugh where "other" | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu: | as crazy joe davola once said, "i like to encourage intruders" | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu: | diana_coman, aha. | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu: | we consider this. | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, incidentally, you ever saw eg http://trilema.com/2012/activitatea-utilizatorilor-pe-fain/ ? | [16:30] |
asciilifeform: | for instance right nao anyone leasing a box on piz, can hear the pw | [16:30] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: not seen, iirc | [16:31] |
diana_coman: | tbh I also don't quite grok what's the status re irc as there was the plan to move and so on | [16:31] |
mircea_popescu: | it's a data visualization, back then i ran a ro digg that's users / activity. | [16:31] |
mircea_popescu: | it might be nice, have something like that for loggers, you know. though i dun specifically know what. | [16:31] |
asciilifeform: | i recall the 'ro digg' aha | [16:31] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: phf's had the activity graph. i did not clone it | [16:31] |
asciilifeform: | cuz never found it esp. useful | [16:31] |
mircea_popescu: | diana_coman, the plan was to first federate, then move. we're not progressing re federation. | [16:32] |
asciilifeform: | but theoretically can be made | [16:32] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, i asked for it and then i didn't find it that useful either. i'm guessing i just don't understand what wuld be useful exactly. | [16:32] |
asciilifeform: | the beauty of 'publish the fucking src' is that in principle can then add knobs. | [16:32] |
mircea_popescu: | quite so. | [16:33] |
mircea_popescu: | ima have to train myself into comprehension that indeed, we've finally come to sanity, can now add knobsd. | [16:33] |
asciilifeform: | right nao i have 1 knob that phf did not, the activity ticker on top of page | [16:33] |
asciilifeform: | tells you when was last line spoken (clickable, will go to it) | [16:33] |
mircea_popescu: | yeah, pretty cool | [16:33] |
asciilifeform: | ( atm if <1min ago, says nuffin. prolly oughta put in a 'now' etc ) | [16:34] |
mircea_popescu: | i guess so yeah. | [16:34] |
mircea_popescu: | ahh, it's so nice to be back! | [16:34] |
asciilifeform: | ( rationale was, there are chans where folx speak erry coupla days or so, and handy to be able to jump back immediately w/out flipping pages ) | [16:35] |
mircea_popescu: | quite. | [16:35] |
diana_coman: | fwiw I noticed and very much liked that knob, asciilifeform ! | [16:35] |
asciilifeform: | yw diana_coman . it is not difficult to add knobs, whole thing is <1000ln. | [16:36] |
mircea_popescu: | !q help seen | [16:36] |
snsabot: | mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [16:36] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: 'seen' dunwork yet | [16:36] |
asciilifeform: | !qseen asciilifeform | [16:36] |
snsabot: | asciilifeform: this command is not yet implemented. | [16:36] |
mircea_popescu: | !q help uptime | [16:36] |
snsabot: | mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [16:36] |
asciilifeform: | !quptime | [16:36] |
snsabot: | asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 0m | [16:36] |
mircea_popescu: | !qhelp uptime | [16:36] |
snsabot: | mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [16:36] |
mircea_popescu: | !qhelp | [16:37] |
snsabot: | mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [16:37] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: think ought to 'per cmd' help eh. | [16:37] |
asciilifeform: | will go on list. | [16:37] |
mircea_popescu: | maybe. tnh i dunno. maybe we end up standardizing some kinda help format. | [16:37] |
asciilifeform: | really oughta, esp. when we get moar cmds | [16:37] |
diana_coman: | !qhelp uptime | [16:37] |
snsabot: | diana_coman: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime | [16:37] |
mircea_popescu: | nfi, and dun wanna dig into it right now | [16:37] |
asciilifeform: | btw ok to put spaces, | [16:37] |
asciilifeform: | !q uptime | [16:37] |
snsabot: | asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 1m | [16:37] |
mircea_popescu: | nice | [16:37] |
mircea_popescu: | !qs | [16:37] |
snsabot: | 0 results for "" in #trilema | [16:37] |
mircea_popescu: | !qs 1 | [16:37] |
snsabot: | 0 results for "1" in #trilema | [16:38] |
asciilifeform: | tooshort | [16:38] |
mircea_popescu: | !qs 12 | [16:38] |
snsabot: | 0 results for "12" in #trilema | [16:38] |
mircea_popescu: | !qs 123 | [16:38] |
snsabot: | 564 results for "123" in #trilema | [16:38] |
diana_coman: | !q s too short | [16:38] |
snsabot: | 84 results for "too short" in #trilema | [16:38] |
mircea_popescu: | !qs the | [16:38] |
snsabot: | 1000 results for "the" in #trilema | [16:38] |
mircea_popescu: | capped 1k ? | [16:38] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: ^ is good example, paginator not in there yet | [16:38] |
asciilifeform: | 1000 currently cap. | [16:38] |
mircea_popescu: | not unreasonable. like google back when it worked. | [16:38] |
asciilifeform: | i wrote the bot to use the www end's search function, so as to avoid having two duplicated searchtrons in there | [16:38] |
asciilifeform: | so when changing www search algo, same will apply to bot | [16:39] |
mircea_popescu: | lol ir curls it ? | [16:39] |
asciilifeform: | not literally but functionally yes | [16:39] |
mircea_popescu: | angry. | [16:39] |
asciilifeform: | (there's no shell callouts) | [16:39] |
asciilifeform: | the minus is that bot search dunwork if wwwtron is down. ( but why should be down, for more than coupla sec it takes to reset when new ver. phuctor's has not 1ce fallen by itself since last rewrite. ) | [16:40] |
mircea_popescu: | yeah, kinda curious how this weathers. | [16:40] |
asciilifeform: | bot is built to cycle through list of irc servers (in our case, fleanode) , if one throws, goes to next | [16:41] |
asciilifeform: | there is timeout on recv() so 'silent stall' also not wedges bot. at least in theory. | [16:41] |
asciilifeform: | initially i considered to have two-headed bot, with a slave who is kept around strictly if master falls. but this not implemented yet. | [16:41] |
asciilifeform: | and prolly not useful when we jump fleanode. | [16:41] |
asciilifeform: | ( idea was, master and slave required to sit on diff. fleanode shitpits at any given time ) | [16:42] |
asciilifeform: | !q s f:ifeform f:escu trb | [16:43] |
snsabot: | 1000 results for "f:ifeform f:escu trb" in #trilema | [16:43] |
mircea_popescu: | sounds pretty well designed tbh. | [16:43] |
asciilifeform: | as well-designed as script proggy gets when written in <wk lol | [16:44] |
* asciilifeform | not pro 'wwwist' in civilian life, so has possibly.. odd notions of how it is done | [16:46] |
asciilifeform: | item is sewn such that theoretically can digest any barf thrown by fleanode. but this will have to be verified experimentally. | [16:47] |
mircea_popescu: | so far i dun see a problem. | [16:47] |
asciilifeform: | main problem is that right nao there is exactly 1 reliable logotron, so when i add knobs, will have to be cycled (will try to do when no one is awake) | [16:48] |
asciilifeform: | imho the current item should be left alone until mirror stands up , at least unless someone finds how to choke it trivially | [16:48] |
PeterL: | It's been a while since I coded a bot, is it possible to send a PING when you hit timeout rather then going straight to reconnecting? | [16:50] |
asciilifeform: | for completeness, the www end, in case asciilifeform gets sepsis before gets to genesis. and example config (config is common to both proggies, give it on cmdline) | [16:51] |
asciilifeform: | all meaningfully adjustable knobs -- in config. | [16:52] |
asciilifeform: | PeterL: recv timeout doesn't disconnect. state machine goes to recv again. | [16:52] |
asciilifeform: | what does, is to prevent eternal hang on silent (ask the tcp committee why this is physically possible, not me) deaths | [16:53] |
asciilifeform: | PeterL: in order to actually attempt to 'fit in head' the barbaric protocol, i wrote bot on naked sockets, instead of using whatever-lib | [16:54] |
mircea_popescu: | how did it go ? | [16:54] |
mircea_popescu: | spyked, feedbot choked on having to send me too many rss lines lol. can it come back ? | [16:54] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: as you can tell from last coupla comments on your www, even there i missed initially a spot of retardation (fleanode lets you auth, but if you join ~immediately~ then won't be authed for purpose of +r chans. this is documented nowhere.) | [16:55] |
asciilifeform: | unlike earlier ben_vulpes irc proggy, mine does not 'wait' for fleanode-specific warmup message (deliberate, i wanted to be able to stand it up behind e.g. znc , if desired) | [16:56] |
asciilifeform: | so instead has configable delay there. | [16:56] |
diana_coman: | and I find out I didn't miss at all not using python for years onth no idea what else would be better for such a task since it can't be really clean anyway | [16:56] |
asciilifeform: | 'join_t = 20' atm. | [16:57] |
asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i use python as 'less carcinogenic' perl | [16:57] |
asciilifeform: | ever since 1st had to write a wwwistic proggy (phuctor front) | [16:57] |
asciilifeform: | but deliberately wrote this one so it can be with minimal effort rewritten in sumthingelse (i.e. did not use py 'irc libs' or whatevers) | [16:57] |
diana_coman: | asciilifeform: do you have any suggestion for what might "sumthingelse" reasonably be? because I can't see it | [16:58] |
asciilifeform: | the www end does use 'flask', py's equiv of hunchentoot etc | [16:58] |
asciilifeform: | (liek phuctor did) | [16:58] |
asciilifeform: | diana_coman: possibly CL, after spyked genesis's his cleaned up hunchen | [16:58] |
diana_coman: | and ftr I have no idea why did the other bots go for lisp anyway, did I miss somewhere the rationale for it? | [16:59] |
asciilifeform: | and ultimately in tmsr-l | [16:59] |
asciilifeform: | diana_coman: rationale is that each bot maker used the lang that was most fresh in head. | [16:59] |
asciilifeform: | currently there aint a 'tmsr lang' in which can readily write wwwisms. (i dun even have a tcp end for gnat atm) | [17:00] |
asciilifeform: | i actually started to write one, lol! when this particular episode began. but quickly realized that it'll carry on for month+ | [17:00] |
diana_coman: | ultimately sure currently I don't know I even sketched quickly an Ada thing - main trouble though is lack of proper db interface (and otherwise relying on GNAT.Sockets and therefore the whole strand of streams etc) | [17:00] |
asciilifeform: | would have to write pg end also ! | [17:00] |
asciilifeform: | for gnat. | [17:00] |
asciilifeform: | there aint one. | [17:00] |
asciilifeform: | before long we're looking at 10,000ln lol | [17:01] |
diana_coman: | aha | [17:01] |
asciilifeform: | so instead put on gas mask an' did it phuctor-style | [17:01] |
asciilifeform: | diana_coman: principal weakness of ada in re this problem set (at least the ada 'specified' by asciilifeform) is stringism handling | [17:02] |
diana_coman: | yes, my current understanding is exactly that - it's a stink anyway and unavoidably so might as well use python, at least it's quick and relatively clear | [17:02] |
asciilifeform: | you can't even concat 2 strings w/out 'secondary stack'ism | [17:02] |
asciilifeform: | there's a place, at least for so long as we're doing tcpisms, for langs with garbagecollector etc. | [17:02] |
diana_coman: | yep but if you use gnat.sockets you already eat that too anyway so lots of stink in already. | [17:03] |
asciilifeform: | diana_coman: 1 reason to use cl, is that ~50x faster, vs pythonisms. and can use actual machine threads. | [17:03] |
asciilifeform: | python dun support machine threads. | [17:03] |
diana_coman: | that makes sense | [17:04] |
asciilifeform: | ( it gives you a faux-thread abstraction so can call e.g. blocking read() , but it dun actually parallelize ) | [17:04] |
asciilifeform: | snsabot and its www end are imho usably snappy, but you can tell that they run in interpreter, visibly slower than phf's | [17:05] |
asciilifeform: | ( iirc he also did not use sqlism, but kept entire working set in ram ) | [17:05] |
asciilifeform: | mine uses postgres (9, 10, both work) | [17:05] |
asciilifeform: | search uses same indexing method as earlier in phuctor. | [17:06] |
* asciilifeform | brb:teatime. | [17:11] |
spyked: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926408 <-- on it. gotta run to sleep afterwards, but will be back in the morning and get up to date with l0gz. meanwhile, is it okay if I remove trilema comment PMs from the bot's message queue? otherwise it'll keep sending when I bring it back up, lol. | [17:20] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 16:54:53 mircea_popescu: spyked, feedbot choked on having to send me too many rss lines lol. can it come back ? | [17:20] |
feedbot: | http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/vpatch-support-for-files-in-vtree-root/ << bvt's backtrace -- Vpatch: support for files in vtree root | [17:25] |
spyked: | aaand feedbot's back in business. /me bbl | [17:26] |
mircea_popescu: | wb! | [17:49] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926414 << im not even sure how you reason btw | [17:50] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 16:57:14 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i use python as 'less carcinogenic' perl | [17:50] |
mircea_popescu: | i use... bash as least carcinogenic perl/python/php mysefl | [17:50] |
mircea_popescu: | i also don't know how i reason | [17:50] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926421 << iirc bv wanted to learn / practice it and everyone followed. | [17:51] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 16:59:01 diana_coman: and ftr I have no idea why did the other bots go for lisp anyway, did I miss somewhere the rationale for it? | [17:51] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926442 << seems pretty snappy to me, yeah. | [17:53] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 17:05:07 asciilifeform: snsabot and its www end are imho usably snappy, but you can tell that they run in interpreter, visibly slower than phf's | [17:53] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926447 << i guess i already saw them all so yes. but in general, kinda needs a permafix | [17:54] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 17:20:05 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926408 <-- on it. gotta run to sleep afterwards, but will be back in the morning and get up to date with l0gz. meanwhile, is it okay if I remove trilema comment PMs from the bot's message queue? otherwise it'll keep sending when I bring it back up, lol. | [17:54] |
mircea_popescu: | freenode wants 1s delay between msgs, and bot seems to try and do that but maybe add a 50ms buffer on top or somethign ? | [17:54] |
asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926458 << well, take the current log tail here on my box 'time curl ....' is 2.2s for mine vs 0.09s for phf's | [18:34] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 17:53:34 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926442 << seems pretty snappy to me, yeah. | [18:34] |
asciilifeform: | perceptible enuff diff that it annoys asciilifeform , who developed long ago habit of refreshing log pg on his various machines 'as if it were local thermostat log' | [18:35] |
asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 << in snsabot, it's 0.1s right nao (t_delay knob in config ) | [18:37] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 17:54:51 mircea_popescu: freenode wants 1s delay between msgs, and bot seems to try and do that but maybe add a 50ms buffer on top or somethign ? | [18:37] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 16:51:33 asciilifeform: for completeness, the www end, in case asciilifeform gets sepsis before gets to genesis. and example config (config is common to both proggies, give it on cmdline) | [18:37] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, i realise now i didn't even spec the bot correctly, it's supposed to multiline if multi links | [18:38] |
asciilifeform: | fucking tards, the fleanode people, if you wanna by synchronous, BE SYNCHRONOUS, say when ok to send next ln !!11 | [18:38] |
asciilifeform: | what's with this 'guess our magic rate limit' thing. | [18:38] |
mircea_popescu: | yeah well. | [18:38] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: can easily multiline | [18:38] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: want this in next rev ? | [18:38] |
mircea_popescu: | no im saying, current behaviour is corrdct but not per spec | [18:39] |
asciilifeform: | oh hmm | [18:39] |
asciilifeform: | ha i did already didnt i. | [18:39] |
mircea_popescu: | yes. | [18:39] |
mircea_popescu: | not what the spec ~actually~ satys, but i guess you went per tradition. | [18:39] |
asciilifeform: | ok lemme know if you want it converted to classical 1line. | [18:39] |
mircea_popescu: | nope. | [18:39] |
asciilifeform: | aite! | [18:39] |
mircea_popescu: | lesee here | [18:41] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926483 | [18:41] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 18:41:20 mircea_popescu: lesee here | [18:41] |
mircea_popescu: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926484 | [18:41] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 18:41:44 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926483 | [18:41] |
mircea_popescu: | yup, correct behaviour. | [18:42] |
asciilifeform: | iirc this worked in all prev. loggers also | [18:42] |
mircea_popescu: | yup. | [18:42] |
asciilifeform: | ( protocol, ftr, is such that speakers do not actually see their own output. logger has to log it explicitly ) | [18:42] |
mircea_popescu: | yeah, the one time that weird quirk came in handy | [18:43] |
asciilifeform: | btw cross-chan echoing also worx, e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-08#1000024 | [18:49] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 16:08:58 diana_coman: ftr and use of noobs, channel logs are at http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia | [18:49] |
asciilifeform: | but iirc this also existed prev. | [18:49] |
asciilifeform: | btw before it gets lost , this was imho good point. | [18:54] |
asciilifeform: | ^ interesting thread re 'fg in kernel or not?' that sat in shadow of 'grr no logs' episode | [18:54] |
mircea_popescu: | o.O | [18:57] |
mircea_popescu: | i guess we try this crosslog thing see. | [18:58] |
mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform, did the fg / kernel thing ever make sense to you ? | [18:58] |
mircea_popescu: | & bvt | [18:58] |
asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: i've been breaking my head against it since we built the thing in '16 | [18:58] |
asciilifeform: | i.e. whether to have kernelism knob for it | [18:59] |
asciilifeform: | in those days thought it was obvious nope | [18:59] |
asciilifeform: | 'make artificially easy for os and whatever ears on walls it came with, to know which box is rng' | [18:59] |
asciilifeform: | *why make | [19:00] |
mircea_popescu: | cuz all boxes must be rng | [19:01] |
asciilifeform: | imho mobo oughta have dedicated socket for rng. but we aint yet there. | [19:02] |
asciilifeform: | atm we're sorta in those dark age days of 'weitek' maffs coprocessor etc | [19:02] |
mircea_popescu: | just about | [19:05] |
feedbot: | http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-because-i-said-so-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - "Because I Said So". Adnotated. | [19:17] |
BingoBoingo: | !!rate thimbronion 1 new, wandered into #pizarro | [20:36] |
deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kiAKE/?raw=true | [20:36] |
BingoBoingo: | !!v 3792D532B83EBC298FFCDBB4461CE757F74FAAF6E80B9FD739A36A90215E8D6F | [20:37] |
deedbot: | BingoBoingo rated thimbronion 1 << new, wandered into #pizarro | [20:37] |
lobbes: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926199 << indeed gpgism, but it is not automatic. Plus you have to keep the bot's key on the iron running the thing. I can produce a vpatch once I get the znc-eater-shitter done (or asciilifeform beats me to it. whichever comes first) | [20:49] |
snsabot: | Logged on 2019-08-08 15:52:05 asciilifeform: so, hm, loox like he has gpgism ? or, did trinque have speshulcase table | [20:49] |
lobbes: | it would be a patch off of the command_router_python, however | [20:49] |
lobbes: | iirc spyked actually already has a vpatch for a gpgism that uses the "stored otp" method | [20:50] |
asciilifeform: | lobbes: what means 'not automatic' here ? | [20:51] |
asciilifeform: | as in, it gets auth turd from deedbot and you manually fed it to gpg ?? | [20:52] |
lobbes: | meaning you have to manually tell the bot to voice each time. no prolly not ideal | [20:52] |
lobbes: | i.e. I issue a command, and then the bot handles the rest | [20:52] |
asciilifeform: | aa so by hand you only flipped the safety off, makes sense | [20:52] |
lobbes: | http://www.thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html << here's spyked's item tho. trilemabot-voicer | [20:52] |
lobbes: | not sure the details of it though | [20:53] |
lobbes: | http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823 << Seeing as the order was given to strike scriba from the list, I have also removed it from the TMSR bot directory (which means the command prefix "!$" is available again): http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html | [21:16] |
lobbes: | Re: my php logotron, I still intend to grunt that out, vpatch it, and stand up loggers. In addition I have no plans to discontinue any of my existing infrastructure either (auctionbot will keep auctioning and when I die I have already vpatched it so someone else always pick up the torch). To be clear: Going forward, I will be voluntarily be stepping into knighthood so as to have a clearer focus and | [21:17] |
lobbes: | direction on all *new* TMSR work/studies I take on. | [21:17] |
feedbot: | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452 << Loper OS -- Logotron Genesis. | [22:10] |
asciilifeform: | ^ diana_coman et al ^ | [22:11] |
asciilifeform: | will update the bot's 'src' link when next reset. | [22:19] |
asciilifeform: | ( resets impose approx 1min of down time. ) | [22:19] |
lobbes: | pretty cool asciilifeform. ftr the speed at which you did this blows me away | [22:20] |
asciilifeform: | lobbes: i 'cheated' by recycling components from front-end of phuctor, admittedly. | [22:20] |
asciilifeform: | most of the head scratching went into bot. | [22:20] |
* lobbes | is grunting out the ZNC shitter as we speak. luckily has some .py code already that parsed a dir full of ZNC hopefully can get it out tonight | [22:21] |
asciilifeform: | also cheated by cribbing phf's www htmlizations/style/etc. | [22:21] |
lobbes: | notbad | [22:21] |
asciilifeform: | if i had to write the wwwistics from 0, would have sat for another week+. | [22:21] |
* asciilifeform | not by any stretch of imagination expert wwwist | [22:22] |
asciilifeform: | lobbes et al : lemme know if the bringup instructions in the genesis 'readme' actually make sense. | [22:23] |
asciilifeform: | it was written rather hastily. | [22:23] |
* asciilifeform | expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots | [22:24] |
asciilifeform: | sorta how it tends to go. | [22:25] |
asciilifeform: | lobbes: 1 good test for your znc eater, would be to eat some zncade that's already reflected in phf's dump, and see whether matches. | [22:28] |
asciilifeform: | tho as i understand no timestamp is likely to match, so would have to diff with 'meld' or some other 'smart' differ | [22:29] |
asciilifeform: | ( 'meld' is prolly the 1 graphical proggy asciilifeform uses with regularity. eventually will have to bake a tmsr incarnation... ) | [22:29] |
asciilifeform: | also thinking, may be interesting to try with cuntoo | [22:42] |
asciilifeform: | ( presently nfi whether the latter's 'portage' retains pythonisms ) | [22:43] |
BingoBoingo: | !!invoice thimbronion 0.0216 Shared Hosting Annual | [23:00] |
deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/n4moJ/?raw=true | [23:00] |
BingoBoingo: | !!v 948D0539D087503A5156DBA50C4F67D7E2568710A602977EF5AF841671410C04 | [23:00] |
Category: Logs