Forum logs for 28 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

Adlai	#b-a poll: who has found machine learning worth learning, as a human who learns machines their work	[00:01]
Adlai	(for 19th century vernacular values of the transitive 'learn')	[00:02]
asciilifeform	balloon << again, gigantic radar (and wind sail) cross-section.	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	Adlai afaik nobody.	[00:06]
Chillum	again, already lots of weather balloons out there going in random directions	[00:06]
Chillum	just blend in	[00:06]
Chillum	they go to an altitude above aircraft, when they start dropping the self destruct to avoid the airspace	[00:07]
asciilifeform	for those who insist on balloons, at least study the state of the art: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/41791.html/fusen-bakudan-balloon-bomb	[00:07]
assbot	Chicago Boyz » Blog Archive » Fusen Bakudan balloon-bomb ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy3EqM )	[00:07]
Chillum	not state of the art. Lighter than air craft are getting very advanced	[00:08]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: sorry but you're not relevant here; you learn people their work, not machines	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	actually, my bird wouldn't be a baloon. it'd be a sheet of plastic, basically. this can have zero size if it wants to	[00:09]
Adlai	not that people aren't machines, but i think that you now know what i means	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	the question is whether you know what you mean.	[00:09]
*	Adlai knows what he wants, not what he needs	[00:09]
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asciilifeform	Chillum: if you're not familiar with the fusen bakudan - it was a very elegant & clever design which exploited facts about high-atmosphere air currents	[00:09]
asciilifeform	and cost almost nothing	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	is this the thing that dropped japanese glass beads ?	[00:10]
asciilifeform	dropped thermite and hexagen	[00:10]
asciilifeform	clockwork released, depending on time, sandbags or payload bomblets	[00:11]
decimation	http://www.wired.com/2014/06/google-balloons-year-later/ < balloon with useful payload	[00:11]
assbot	Google's Balloon Internet Experiment, One Year Later \| WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1ESgX )	[00:11]
asciilifeform	https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5009/5307743155_c1862e4a33_z.jpg	[00:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1I1EWNA )	[00:12]
nubbins`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqRugDQC02Q&feature=youtu.be	[00:15]
assbot	What is the point of the "tamper evident" sticker on the Mycellium entropy devices? - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1FBi8 )	[00:15]
nubbins`	my sides.	[00:15]
nubbins`	for those who don't watch: guy removes device from package w/o damaging tamper evident sticker	[00:16]
asciilifeform	l0l	[00:16]
asciilifeform	i would also add that the 'uncopyability' of hologram is greatly exaggerated.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	esp. if you have them made at somebody else's press	[00:17]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/8UWZy87.gifv	[00:17]
assbot	WHAAARRRBBLLLGLLLAARRBBBLE ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1FYt7 )	[00:17]
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Chillum	asciilifeform: and it did next to zero damage	[00:18]
Chillum	tamper evident sticker will only stop a casual attacker, not one with resources	[00:19]
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Chillum	ie a state actor	[00:19]
decimation	^ which is why the device must be inspectible/audit-able by user	[00:20]
Adlai	some of the devices shipped with teh sticker glued to the wrong side	[00:20]
nubbins`	ha	[00:20]
asciilifeform	Chillum: for a hypothetical smuggler, balloon only needs to land within range of cell tower and connect for a few seconds, send enciphered coords	[00:20]
Chillum	If you want to make sure the government has not tampered with a package, put some weed in there. If the weed is still there they probably did not look lol	[00:20]
Adlai	ie sticker covering the hinges of the plastic casing, rather than the clasp	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	you can trivially make tamper evident stickers that aren't fixable with infinite resoruces.	[00:20]
Chillum	ohhh I did not realize we were talking about smuggling devices	[00:20]
asciilifeform	(has obvious caveats, but may still be cost-effective)	[00:20]
decimation	or you could go out back and pick up some uranium ore and build your own rng	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	first step being, make them secret.	[00:20]
Adlai	https://imgur.com/bZ3t7VN	[00:20]
assbot	I do not understand the Mycelium Entropy packaging - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1GHKT )	[00:20]
Chillum	Semi-submersible latches onto side of cargo ship below the water lines, gets carried	[00:21]
Adlai	reddit comments are top lel: http://redd.it/30g79h	[00:21]
Chillum	I assume since we are on IRC this is hypothetical	[00:21]
assbot	I do not understand the Mycelium Entropy packaging : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1GTtu )	[00:21]
nubbins`	Adlai i guess those magnets aren't strong enough.	[00:21]
Adlai	magnets{	[00:21]
Adlai	?	[00:21]
nubbins`	little silver thing in the case there	[00:22]
nubbins`	anyway	[00:22]
asciilifeform	Chillum: we are thinking of what intelligent smugglers might do a decade from today	[00:22]
nubbins`	I would have secured them better by adding a sticker on the other side too (I got them the way you got them before shipping), but I had very few extra stickers. Should have been put on the front. I dont know what happened here. Maybe they were putting them on the sides without realizing how flexible the box is, and only realized when they almost ran out? Pretty sad that after such a huge amount of work adding and improving internal	[00:22]
nubbins`	hardware and software security, that there was such a simple oversight.	[00:22]
Chillum	asciilifeform: I think attaching to the underside of ships	[00:22]
nubbins`	"pretty sad that a fuckin sticker determines whether our device is a paperweight or not"	[00:22]
asciilifeform	make them secret << the only tamper-evident concept worth anything is the kind only evident to the intended recipient.	[00:22]
*	Adlai almost starts to feel respect for truecrypt devs, who at least admitted, behind their veil of anonimity, that they have nfc what they're doing	[00:22]
decimation	yes, it was the honorable route	[00:23]
Chillum	multiple colors of wax melted into a seal with photo delivered separately is still used by embassies in hostile mail systems	[00:23]
Chillum	very hard to reproduce the identical swirls	[00:23]
Chillum	in nuclear regulatory systems they seal with a metal button and then scratch it up with a pin and photograph the scratches	[00:24]
asciilifeform	Chillum: very hard to reproduce the identical swirls << l0l. you don't need to reproduce the seal. only the box.	[00:24]
Chillum	under the assumption that you could not produce identical scratches	[00:24]
Chillum	permeable paper, the wax absorbs into the paper which is a solid seamless envelope	[00:24]
asciilifeform	in the linked example, no one had to even build a second box - original opened and closed undamaged.	[00:24]
danielpbarron	!s bill of lading	[00:25]
assbot	0 results for 'bill of lading' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bill+of+lading	[00:25]
asciilifeform	Chillum: unless the seal encloses the entire package, all you need to do is recreate the box and reattach the seal.	[00:25]
asciilifeform	(after having cut the original crate open on the end opposite)	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	maybe you can't detach the seal.	[00:25]
Chillum	again, no box. Small paper envelope	[00:25]
Chillum	wax absored into the paper	[00:26]
Chillum	old school method that still works today. If you can defeat it then you should sell the method to our fav government	[00:26]
asciilifeform	envelope has other side, edges	[00:26]
Adlai	what about just using fucking pke	[00:26]
asciilifeform	it is not difficult to dissolve and bond paper.	[00:26]
Adlai	or is gpg too complex for lizards?	[00:26]
asciilifeform	Adlai: go send coke and plutonium over pgp	[00:27]
Adlai	who sends coke and plutonium in diplomatic mail+	[00:27]
asciilifeform	plenty of folks	[00:27]
asciilifeform	nukes, even	[00:27]
asciilifeform	are known for a fact to have traveled in diplopouch	[00:27]
Chillum	big pouch	[00:27]
Adlai	maybe the launch codes. but the nuke itself doesn't fit in an envelope	[00:28]
Adlai	launch codes can be serialized and 'compressed'	[00:28]
asciilifeform	Chillum, Adlai : 'pouch' is a misnomer	[00:28]
decimation	the business end of a nuke is not large at all	[00:28]
asciilifeform	diplomatic mail has carried items as large as entire tanks	[00:28]
danielpbarron	http://szabo.best.vwh.net/seals.html	[00:28]
assbot	The Playdough Protocols ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy72C5 )	[00:28]
Adlai	"Miss Bianca, after all, is a poet too, and in any case she is due to travel any day now by diplomatic pouch to Norway."	[00:29]
decimation	http://www.state.gov/m/ds/rls/c33371.htm	[00:29]
assbot	2009 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy77Wd )	[00:29]
danielpbarron	Rejoining the breached container lid, knot, or latch and replacing the broken seal with a new, identical seal would have been, short of stealing the original unique seal carving, impossible to hide from the inspector.	[00:29]
asciilifeform	incidentally	[00:29]
asciilifeform	by vienna convention (1815 iirc) diplo couriers are permitted to treat any attack upon their cargo or person as an act of war	[00:30]
Adlai	danielpbarron: you don't have to touch the seal if the packaging itself is easier to replicate	[00:30]
asciilifeform	and shoot to kill	[00:30]
asciilifeform	su diplo couriers would also hit the Big Red Button (TM) on the crate	[00:30]
Adlai	corners and edges are a bitch	[00:30]
asciilifeform	if threatened	[00:30]
asciilifeform	(set off the thermite)	[00:31]
asciilifeform	this includes customs inspectors (who are supposes to stay the fuck away)	[00:32]
decimation	note the couriers watching the pouch cargo personally	[00:32]
asciilifeform	note also the 'pouch' quite large enough for a passenger car	[00:32]
danielpbarron	I don't like humor in professional communication. Not in code comments, not in technical manuals, not in user interfaces. << from the reddit thing on the mushroom thing	[00:32]
Chillum	This is a really good talk page the effectiveness(or lack there of) of tamper evident devices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIQml3MBJoE	[00:33]
assbot	DEFCON 19: Introduction to Tamper Evident Devices (w speaker) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy7Fvd )	[00:33]
Chillum	short story, they are not very good	[00:33]
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Chillum	he shows how to remove and return the seals used on shipping containers	[00:33]
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danielpbarron	Adlai, not if the seal and container are made of the same clay	[00:35]
asciilifeform	mass produced seals, sold commercially, are approximately as useful as the lock on a typical home door	[00:35]
asciilifeform	'keep honest man honest'	[00:35]
Adlai	danielpbarron: ie, the entire container is a seal?	[00:36]
danielpbarron	Adlai, ya	[00:36]
Adlai	this is a valid approach	[00:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu et al : i would almost dare to suggest that the idiot seal was a deliberate smoke grenade to distract from the idiocy of the 'mycelium' produce itself	[00:37]
Adlai	or at least, s/is/seems/	[00:37]
danielpbarron	it's not economical / made more sense when voyages were so expensive	[00:37]
asciilifeform	http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt << pete's summary	[00:37]
assbot	Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	aka marketing item.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	i meant, not merely the seal, but the trivially bent box (as shown in film linked earlier)	[00:38]
danielpbarron	these days there isn't that much to verify that a shipment hasn't been tampered with; a shipping container is "sealed" with a metal peg coated in plastic and stamped with some numbers	[00:38]
Chillum	The problem with the mycelium key is the same printers that accept USB sticks also have internal memory	[00:38]
asciilifeform	classical gambit - fuck a goat, folks will forget that you also fuck babies and guinea pigs	[00:38]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/#footnote_1_54701 << s/3rd/4th/?	[00:38]
assbot	The conference, third edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy87tF )	[00:38]
Chillum	I like my solution better	[00:38]
Chillum	http://static.highinbc.com/20150313_194522.jpg	[00:38]
Chillum	tty thermal printer has no memory	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	Adlai right.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	Chillum: what is in the box ?	[00:39]
Chillum	a raspberry pi	[00:39]
Chillum	and a thermal receipt printer	[00:39]
Chillum	all controlled by 1 button	[00:39]
asciilifeform	i like thermal printers.	[00:39]
Adlai	not that it helps anyone	[00:39]
asciilifeform	happen to own one myself.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	they are good for printing onetimepads.	[00:39]
Chillum	It was a kit meant to print twitter feeds	[00:39]
asciilifeform	and system logs.	[00:40]
asciilifeform	(go delete that.)	[00:40]
Chillum	so I reimaged the sd with a base raspbian and wrote some python code to get addresses from vanitygen and print them	[00:40]
Chillum	no swap, use that runs vanitygen has read only access to drive and does everything in ram	[00:40]
Chillum	s/use/user/	[00:40]
Chillum	one time pads are cool	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	not a bad design.	[00:42]
Chillum	thanks. It was really fun making it	[00:42]
asciilifeform	only trouble spot is the rng	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	first time ppl that wander in here and a) aren't going to spaceghost the bitcoin ; b) aren't retarded.	[00:42]
asciilifeform	but other than that - sure	[00:42]
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mircea_popescu	this is like...rare.	[00:42]
Chillum	the hwrng on the pi is better than the prng most computers use	[00:42]
asciilifeform	aha rare.	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	Chillum we don't trust it because very suspicious corp / closed turd.	[00:43]
asciilifeform	Chillum: it is not know for a fact to be anything other than prng	[00:43]
Chillum	my understanding is it is avalanche based	[00:43]
asciilifeform	and manufacturer has one of the worst histories of stonewalling and fraudulently 'open' source of any.	[00:43]
asciilifeform	understanding'	[00:43]
asciilifeform	means that one understands	[00:43]
asciilifeform	no?	[00:44]
Chillum	I agree it is integrated into a black box	[00:44]
asciilifeform	could be avalanche. could also be marsaglia seeded with phase of the moon.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	for all we can tell.	[00:44]
Chillum	though most entropy from PRNGs come from hard drive timings, which run black box firmware	[00:44]
nubbins`	that'd be pretty random.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: the number 3 is very random by same token.	[00:45]
nubbins`	works once, anyway.	[00:45]
Chillum	I doubt there is a modern computer out there that does not have some black box software or firmware	[00:45]
asciilifeform	incidentally, i will use this occasion to point out that prng is not deadly because enemy can somehow get the exact bits again	[00:45]
asciilifeform	but because of the known relationship between bit N and N+k	[00:45]
Chillum	it is possible to infect a hard drive with malware. Not the data, the firmware	[00:45]
asciilifeform	this can be used to narrow key class.	[00:46]
asciilifeform	Chillum: this has been known to the public for months, to me for years, and to #b-a for at least a year and a half.	[00:46]
mircea_popescu	Chillum this was actuallyt discussed in logs	[00:46]
Chillum	If I could hook up a little device to the usb or serial that gave me numbers I would be more confident in then I would do that	[00:46]
Chillum	depending on the price	[00:47]
Chillum	with 128 bits to a bitcoin key you do have some keyspace to play with	[00:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00026172 = 11.0708 BTC [-]	[00:50]
decimation	asciilifeform: do you derp around with locks?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	decimation: did, at times	[00:52]
*	asciilifeform not mega-lockexpert	[00:52]
Chillum	I try to, but am not very good	[00:52]
*	asciilifeform read the mit guide and did the exercises like everybody else	[00:52]
decimation	asciilifeform: I'm toying with the idea of buying slightly better deadbolts	[00:53]
asciilifeform	if a house, with glass windows, etc. and not a vault - probably wasted money.	[00:54]
Chillum	only if it is your weakest point	[00:54]
decimation	aye, most breakins are 'kick-ins'	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	trivial to make windows bulletproof tho, these days.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	get that foil thing	[00:56]
asciilifeform	wai wat	[00:56]
asciilifeform	bulletproof foil? made of what?	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	plastic, strong glue	[00:56]
asciilifeform	and if foil in window, why not brick?	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	it'll hold a brick too.	[00:57]
asciilifeform	no, brick in the widow	[00:57]
asciilifeform	why even have a window if covering in opaque armour	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	it's actually transparent	[00:57]
decimation	yes, they make laminate for window reinforcement	[00:57]
asciilifeform	ah 'lexan' replacements	[00:57]
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asciilifeform	mega-expensive	[00:57]
decimation	http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films/	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	not THAT expensive	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	decimation i was gonna say, 3m lol	[00:58]
decimation	yeah 3m makes good shit	[00:58]
Adlai	aegis agorecki Apocalyptic artifexd Asa9t1 asciilifeform Asenath assbot Azelphur	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's not policarbonate replacement for glass in window. it's a very highly adhesive foil, which you stick on the window	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	gives it immense plasticity as it were	[00:59]
decimation	if it's a 'random burglar' it might be enough to convince him to go elsewhere	[00:59]
asciilifeform	aha like in car.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	right	[00:59]
decimation	yeah	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	http://solutions.3m.com/3MContentRetrievalAPI/BlobServlet?lmd=1290196235000&locale=en_WW&assetType=MMM_Image&assetId=1273657601352&blobAttribute=ImageFile << typical impact	[00:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ylndf8 )	[00:59]
asciilifeform	so he break & then cuts with knife ?	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	omfg horrid site design	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	if he's willing to, yes. shitty job tho.	[01:00]
decimation	possibly, but it would take quite a bit of doing	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	best way really is torch	[01:00]
decimation	not the snatch n' grab job	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	shit'll melt/smoke	[01:00]
asciilifeform	and wouldn't it be in a sense counterproductive? as in, burglars will often themselves glue film to windows before breaking them, to silence the sound	[01:00]
asciilifeform	(traditional in usa)	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	different glue.	[01:01]
decimation	all these kinds of security gizmos are quite useless if there's not ability to summon a human to inspect what is going on	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	decimation makes door lock the weak point again is all.	[01:01]
asciilifeform	decimation: american security paraphernalia usually presumes owner is home with shotgun	[01:01]
decimation	they are also quite useless against a well-bezzled actor	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	i wonder what % of said paraphenalia is sold to protect your goods, and what % "ticket to shooting your own guy!"	[01:02]
asciilifeform	'own goals' are not uncommon in usa	[01:02]
decimation	all I want is to 'run faster than you' away from the bear	[01:02]
decimation	if an army of bears wants to target me, not much can be done	[01:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50019 @ 0.00025534 = 12.7719 BTC [-]	[01:04]
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asciilifeform	http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films << the 'break-in attempt' film is a mega-l0l	[01:10]
assbot	3M Scotchshield Automotive Security Films - Clear and tinted Security films for cars, trucks - 3M Scotchshield ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylohzq )	[01:10]
decimation	lol like the mouse	[01:11]
asciilifeform	exactly the mouse	[01:11]
decimation	I suspect that this is 3m's target market	[01:12]
decimation	ghetto businesses	[01:12]
decimation	'keeping honest thugs honest'	[01:12]
asciilifeform	not around here. nobody cancelled the traditional pull-down cage	[01:12]
nubbins`	"things changed since, and both GNU and BSD recent versions of tar have support for storing extended attributes. They use incompatible formats"	[01:14]
nubbins`	^ current headache	[01:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00026703 = 8.4381 BTC [+]	[01:19]
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asciilifeform	'It had an airport, railway and dungeons. Most of Pingfang was burnt by the Japanese to destroy evidence but the incinerator where the remains of victims were burnt remains and is still in use as part of a factory.' -- pediwikil0l	[01:26]
jurov	Chillum, I added microphone to the rng mix for similar rpi application	[01:27]
Chillum	how does that work?	[01:27]
Chillum	sound has entropy but it also has a lot of pattern	[01:27]
jurov	http://www.vanheusden.com/aed/	[01:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ylqqv1 )	[01:28]
Chillum	watch out for humming fluorescent lights	[01:28]
Chillum	no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source	[01:28]
jurov	obv no	[01:29]
jurov	but it's something you can control, such as making suitable noise while the addy is generated	[01:29]
Chillum	sound cards also pick up radio signals	[01:30]
Chillum	the pi in particular has poor sheilding	[01:30]
Chillum	suitable noise?	[01:30]
Chillum	like a burp?	[01:30]
asciilifeform	pick up radio << interestingly my early-1990s 'gravis' stood head and shoulders above modern pc in this respect	[01:30]
Chillum	https://xkcd.com/1210/	[01:31]
jurov	crunching paper or cookies bag comes to mind	[01:31]
assbot	xkcd: I'm So Random ... ( http://bit.ly/1CutsCm )	[01:31]
jurov	or, as i have a window to busy street, i used that	[01:31]
Chillum	I think you over estimate your ability to create entropy with everday objects	[01:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14399 @ 0.00026703 = 3.845 BTC [+]	[01:31]
Chillum	the results will be hard to predict though	[01:31]
asciilifeform	Chillum: ever play http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html ?	[01:31]
assbot	Man vs. Machine. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CutBFV )	[01:31]
jurov	and you think since there will be some hum, any entropy is lost?	[01:32]
Chillum	the debiaser can't tell entropy from pattern	[01:32]
Chillum	it all gets mixed together	[01:32]
jurov	you can	[01:32]
jurov	and that's not what debiaser is doing	[01:32]
jurov	you can listen to the sample before using it, to check whether the noise is there	[01:33]
Chillum	got 50%	[01:34]
Chillum	noise itself is a repeating wave	[01:34]
Chillum	very ordered	[01:34]
Chillum	particularly noises made by objects	[01:34]
Chillum	sound I should say	[01:34]
Chillum	got 100% second try	[01:35]
Chillum	stupid computer	[01:35]
asciilifeform	Chillum: if you can predict wave from turbulent flow (e.g., water faucet) don't settle for small change. aeronautics and naval folks would like a word with you.	[01:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61770 @ 0.00026745 = 16.5204 BTC [+] {2}	[01:36]
Chillum	if you have complete control of your noise source then I suppose it would work	[01:36]
Chillum	but so many noise sources are very orders and all around us. 60hz is all around us	[01:37]
Chillum	s/orders/ordered/	[01:37]
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Chillum	Say I start creating variants on a 6hz tone and create keys with that tool. I may just make the same key as someone else who used it near a lamp	[01:38]
Chillum	60hz	[01:38]
Chillum	or at least reduce my keyspace	[01:38]
asciilifeform	!s xor lemma	[01:39]
assbot	1 results for 'xor lemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xor+lemma	[01:39]
jurov	yes, if you insist using lamp and nothin else as your audio	[01:39]
asciilifeform	collect for a while.	[01:39]
asciilifeform	why hurry.	[01:39]
cazalla	scoopbot fetch http://qntra.net/2015/03/mycelium-entropy-devices-possibly-tampered-with-during-transit/	[01:40]
assbot	Mycelium Entropy Devices Possibly Tampered With During Transit \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylrWgE )	[01:40]
asciilifeform	^ if it had cameratron (see earlier thread) we'd have more to laugh at than a torn box.	[01:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 12 @ 0.10041665 = 1.205 BTC [+] {4}	[01:51]
*	NomosOne has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[02:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00026653 = 13.9662 BTC [-] {2}	[02:04]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[02:09]
pete_dushenski	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2015#1074455 << a h/t recipient is you!	[02:10]
assbot	Logged on 27-03-2015 13:13:27; nubbins`: pete_dushenski http://i.imgur.com/z1q3Uc5.png heehee!	[02:10]
nubbins`	WE WANTED SOME FEELS	[02:10]
pete_dushenski	Chillum: solid first day in b-a!	[02:10]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: AND WE KNEW A GUY WHO PRINTED T-SHIRTS	[02:11]
pete_dushenski	hey, we also know a guy who prints t-shirts, don't we...	[02:11]
nubbins`	but what do we want to FUCK	[02:12]
nubbins`	NODELESSNESS	[02:12]
pete_dushenski	WOMENZ	[02:12]
Chillum	lol	[02:13]
pete_dushenski	SOCIALIST BUREAUCRACY	[02:13]
pete_dushenski	^i'd wear this t-shirt actually	[02:14]
pete_dushenski	back should read: WITH A SPIKEY CACTUS	[02:15]
Chillum	I have a shirt that says "I read your e-mails"	[02:17]
pete_dushenski	heh.	[02:17]
pete_dushenski	i have one that says "bitinstant"	[02:18]
pete_dushenski	maybe one day i'll add "signs papers" to the back ;)	[02:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60149 @ 0.00026652 = 16.0309 BTC [-]	[02:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7532 @ 0.00026652 = 2.0074 BTC [-]	[02:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21550 @ 0.00025547 = 5.5054 BTC [-]	[02:43]
pete_dushenski	"Women guaranteed at least 50% of jobs on Victorian government boards" << wd oz, get those numbers up!	[02:45]
pete_dushenski	because quotas based on stupidity will surely yield genius results	[02:46]
pete_dushenski	"we need 300,000 pairs of shoes"	[02:46]
pete_dushenski	and so what if they're all size 6 because there wasn't more leather	[02:46]
Chillum	hey everybody, we're all going to get laid!	[02:47]
pete_dushenski	at laaaast!	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	Monday 12 January 2015 will go down in confectionery history as a bad day. A hurtful day.	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	The day when it was revealed that Cadbury’s Creme Eggs have changed for ever.	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	No longer shall the egg shell be made from delicious Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. It will instead be made from disgusting, foul, vomit-inducing “standard cocoa mix chocolate”.	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	^ok this is lulzy	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	The spokesman said the new chocolate had been tested on “consumers” – industry shorthand for “idiots”, clearly – and had been “found to be the best one for Creme Egg”.	[02:49]
pete_dushenski	Already, this egg announcement is threatening the stability of the UK government. What havoc will this monster wreak next?	[02:50]
pete_dushenski	Are we really going to swallow this bad egg, America? For that is what Cadbury has wrought. A bad egg. And today will for ever be known as a bad day.	[02:50]
pete_dushenski	^mercy.	[02:50]
pete_dushenski	if a chocolate egg is unsettling the balance, by golly bitcoin barely needs to sneeze in the uk's general direction	[02:51]
Chillum	worst day in confectionary history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster	[02:52]
pete_dushenski	this article has to be a troll.	[02:52]
assbot	Boston Molasses Disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1G1fadC )	[02:52]
pete_dushenski	21 dead!	[02:52]
pete_dushenski	oof.	[02:52]
Chillum	but the egg thing is bad too	[02:52]
pete_dushenski	in what way do you mean ?	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source << howdja figure that one ?	[02:54]
Chillum	you can't create entropy with an algorithm	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	this is not the same.	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	you can debias with an algorithm.	[02:55]
Chillum	we were talking about sound as a source of data	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	sure. so what's wrong with a very banal von neuman ?	[02:55]
Chillum	you lost me there	[02:56]
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pete_dushenski	"The Cadbury Creme Egg was a rare thing in this modern age. Its subtle blend of delicious chocolate and sweet, creamy/cremey yolk was a throwback to the days when chocolatiers took pride in their work." << right. the thing of which 500 mn are made per year, 2/3 of which are consumed in the uk (no wonder they have rotten teeth), is "boutique"	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	there's this algorithm which consists of : flip biased coin twice. if flips agree, one thing. iof they disagree, another thing.	[02:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00025547 = 16.3629 BTC [-]	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski gotta reposition!	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	Chillum http://mathoverflow.net/questions/152107/proof-of-von-neumanns-debiasing-algorithm etc.	[02:58]
assbot	pr.probability - Proof of Von Neumann's debiasing algorithm - MathOverflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nnh6xA )	[02:58]
Chillum	but if the source is a lamp humming 60hz how does the algo filter the pattern from the entropy without diluting the entropy?	[02:58]
Chillum	I know that algo, it removes bunching. It does not remove more complex patterns	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't "dilute" anything. if you have 1 bit of entropy per byte, it puts out one byte every eightish bytes.	[02:59]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: sounds like 'repositioning' the creme egg in the uk is akin to 'repositioning' baby george's nose from his face to his ass.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	it removes bias, basically.	[02:59]
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Chillum	bias is only one type of pattern though	[03:00]
Chillum	there is also periodicity	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	in the case of your lamp, it basically extracts phase transition errors	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	expect ~1/2 bit per phase change	[03:00]
Chillum	my point was that debiasing will not remove periodic patterns	[03:00]
Chillum	that are not next to each other	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	...	[03:00]
Chillum	perhaps I am not getting it	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	well im certainly unsure what it is you're saying.	[03:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.0002547 = 9.8314 BTC [-] {2}	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	i mean, a biased source is a biased source. do you mean it's not actually biased, but the bits are correlated ?	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	something like "always output 0 if the previous 7th output was 1" or whatever ?	[03:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93050 @ 0.00025464 = 23.6943 BTC [-]	[03:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102156 @ 0.00025566 = 26.1172 BTC [+] {2}	[03:10]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2015#1075431 << canada idem. cra can be plenty annoying.	[03:12]
assbot	Logged on 27-03-2015 23:32:15; asciilifeform: who the fuck explains their income ? in the states, if they think they have a case they freeze your assets. << aha. sit on the stake until explained, yes.	[03:12]
pete_dushenski	"The CRA has broad powers to investigate suspected tax cheats. In the process of conducting a civil audit to assess how much tax a person really owes, the tax agency can call up bank records, freeze accounts, compel the release of business, payroll and other records, and root through land registries and other government data." << sop	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	it can do whatever the fuck it feels like, with its own data.	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	it can't ask me "hey where you got your money from". unless im a politician and submitted some sort of "this is what my fortune is" statement.	[03:13]
pete_dushenski	it can't ask "what was this line from this person from on your bank statement" ?	[03:13]
pete_dushenski	i was under the impression that every line had to be explained.	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	that's income.	[03:14]
pete_dushenski	a yes, twas my focus	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	it's not a question of "where it's from", but "why have you not reported it". which ideally you have reported.	[03:15]
pete_dushenski	you're saying they can't ask "from whence ferrari?"	[03:15]
pete_dushenski	agreed	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	"how come you have something" != "how come you told us earlier this income is extempt when it clearly isn't"	[03:16]
pete_dushenski	also agreed	[03:17]
pete_dushenski	so income has to be explained, possessions not.	[03:18]
pete_dushenski	got it	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	you come riding at the border in a flying submarine	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	"do you have title for it ?" "here it is"	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	"how come you got it ?" "fuck you."	[03:19]
pete_dushenski	"your mom gave it to me for my birthday"	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	"but our records don't show us selliung you one"	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	"that might be because you suck."	[03:20]
trinque	"looks like a cocaine running air submarine to me"	[03:20]
pete_dushenski	"keep better records, derp"	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	trinque kinda why sane people don't travel into rogue states without an army.	[03:22]
trinque	mhm	[03:22]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: trilema.com gives me this: http://imgur.com/0KA8yFc	[03:23]
trinque	in my lifetime the perception that rule of law is either real or honest seems to have been fading	[03:23]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1NnjULf )	[03:23]
pete_dushenski	but www.trilema.com works just fine.	[03:23]
trinque	dunno that there ever was a time where rule of law did matter here; I'm neither old enough nor educated enough to say	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski hm i see it ?	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	you must have some weird dns issue ? what's the perceived ip ?	[03:24]
trinque	working here	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck hijacks blog dns's ? and also... www just goes to plain domain.	[03:25]
trinque	mircea_popescu: it's the https	[03:27]
pete_dushenski	i see 23.235.235.243	[03:27]
pete_dushenski	^using random look up tool	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	that's right. but yeah, no https svp	[03:28]
pete_dushenski	aha	[03:29]
pete_dushenski	weird that the browser defaulted to https	[03:29]
pete_dushenski	because i definitely never specified it	[03:29]
trinque	pete_dushenski: got the "ssl everywhere" extension?	[03:29]
pete_dushenski	just flashblock, noscript, adblock	[03:30]
*	trinque shrugs	[03:30]
trinque	ass gremlins	[03:30]
pete_dushenski	unless one of those bakes in ssl everyfuckingwhere	[03:30]
pete_dushenski	ya, let's chalk it up to ass grems and call it a day	[03:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31882 @ 0.0002682 = 8.5508 BTC [+] {2}	[03:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54818 @ 0.00027047 = 14.8266 BTC [+]	[03:39]
pete_dushenski	http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/12/what-a-masculinity-conference-taught-me-about-the-state-of-men	[03:55]
assbot	What a masculinity conference taught me about the state of men \| Life and style \| The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGm4om )	[03:55]
pete_dushenski	is there nothing unworthy of having a conference about ?	[03:56]
pete_dushenski	mebbe "bitcoind pogo afficionados" is near the threshold for obscurity	[03:57]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	masculinity conferences ahahaha.	[04:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34158 @ 0.00026676 = 9.112 BTC [-]	[04:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00026699 = 3.2439 BTC [+] {2}	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Underwear_rule << ahahaha. fucking retards.	[04:21]
assbot	Wikipedia:Underwear rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGoiUS )	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	they're not NAKED. they're in their jimbo blessed underwear.	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	such a sad epitome of mediocrity, that thing.	[04:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00027047 = 21.8945 BTC [+]	[04:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29081 @ 0.00026344 = 7.6611 BTC [-] {2}	[04:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65500 @ 0.00026717 = 17.4996 BTC [+]	[05:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72160 @ 0.00026418 = 19.0632 BTC [-] {2}	[05:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63810 @ 0.00025852 = 16.4962 BTC [-]	[05:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81600 @ 0.00025852 = 21.0952 BTC [-]	[05:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122800 @ 0.00025852 = 31.7463 BTC [-] {2}	[06:16]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[12:45]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[12:45]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[12:45]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[12:45]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUlaDdNk5g << me discovering pogues	[12:46]
assbot	Tommy's Blue Valentine - Pogues' Cait O'Riordan on lead vocals - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/19sMnBQ )	[12:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16899 @ 0.00027449 = 4.6386 BTC [+]	[12:51]
Chillum	nubbins`: they use pepper spray around here	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	-NickServ- m_p!~matter_pa@49.207.189.76 failed to login to mircea_popescu. There has been 1 failed login attempt since your last successful login. << check it out ?!	[12:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00026917 = 4.051 BTC [-] {2}	[13:01]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[13:02]
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mod6	huh	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2015_March_20#Cogobuy << wikilulz of the day. guy makes article about bn dollar chinese company, is told "This is an encyclopedia .... Not a website advertisement service, There are a million and one ways to advertise your company and this place certainly isn't one of them"	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	apparently wikipedia is keenly aware it exists primarily as an advertising source. just... not for the fucking chinese aaaite ?	[13:04]
*	nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:04]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076676 << see teh logs	[13:04]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:56:34; Chillum: In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out	[13:05]
Chillum	how can we not be aware?	[13:05]
pete_dushenski	!s ssl	[13:05]
assbot	240 results for 'ssl' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ssl	[13:05]
pete_dushenski	ssl provides much security theatre and little apparent security	[13:05]
Chillum	okay	[13:06]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski seems to be the consensus.	[13:06]
Chillum	I still think my clients would prefer their api keys encrypted	[13:06]
pete_dushenski	ah yes, "what the customer has come to expect"	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	Chillum i suspek you have to do a bunch of log reading to acclimate to the groupthink.	[13:07]
Chillum	I never was very good at group think	[13:07]
Chillum	my own damn opinions keep getting in the way	[13:07]
pete_dushenski	it's a strong brew here ;)	[13:08]
asciilifeform	'When he was returned to Springfield four years later, after slashing his wrists and writing “American Gulag” in blood on his bedsheets, the doctor wrote, “Considerations that [Powers] has some form of psychosis, thought disorder or mental illness are unfounded.”' << mega-l0l	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	yes, that's the problem there : in order to have your own oppinions you need to study the groupthink.	[13:08]
asciilifeform	( http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/inside-americas-toughest-federal-prison.html?from=promo&_r=0 )	[13:08]
assbot	Log In ... ( http://bit.ly/1D09pMR )	[13:08]
Chillum	not sure that I do	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, you're just passing (to yourself, at least) groupthink as oppinions.	[13:08]
Chillum	most ssl vulnerabilities come from poor cert checking	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	"most stds come from whores"	[13:08]
Chillum	exactly, not a reason to stop fucking	[13:09]
asciilifeform	Chillum: why do you not consider the existence of the master keys a vulnerability ?	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	ssl != fucking in this simile	[13:09]
Chillum	it is for perfect forward secrecy isn't it?	[13:10]
Chillum	how is using plaintext instead of SSL better?	[13:11]
Chillum	security is about layers	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	a turdstack is not a better pancake "because layers".	[13:11]
asciilifeform	Chillum: you may live on a planet where plaintext is the only alternative to ssl, but here on the third rock from sol there are other cryptosystems	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	in most practical scenarios, the only enemy any user will ever encounter is the usg.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	security solutions that avoid this point are exercises in disinfo.	[13:12]
Chillum	In most practical scenarios the enemy is a person trying to steal bitcoins	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	not a person, but the government of the united states	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	to date, the most successful bitcoin thief	[13:12]
asciilifeform	^	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	(if we credit its usms fake auction sums)	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	now, this entire "yeah the usg is your main enemy but whatever, you don't really want to protect your fucking tweets from them anyway" worked to propose turdstack = pancake.	[13:14]
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Chillum	I have worked in computer security for 15 years. While many implementations of SSL host checking are flawed and the hierarchial trust model is a joke the underlying encryption is solid until some learns to find prime factors of large numbers easily.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	with the advent of bitcoins, things have changed. a stolen bitcoin is a stolen bitcoin no matter how the theft was perpetuated, or under what color of law.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	Chillum: i am the one who cut the ssl idiocy from therealbitcoin's bitcoind. and i did it for reasons which had nothing to do with memory footprint (we did not have an embedded device project yet)	[13:14]
Chillum	I saw the diff	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	Chillum but they do in fact ALL accept verisign master keys.	[13:15]
asciilifeform	Chillum: if you worked in security, did you sleep through 'heartbleed' ?	[13:15]
Chillum	I think it should come with a big "NO SSL" warning next to the download so people are not caught unaware	[13:15]
mats	lol	[13:15]
Chillum	I am aware of heartbleed, an implementation failure	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	wait.what ?!	[13:15]
Chillum	plaintext also has a history of failure	[13:15]
asciilifeform	Chillum: we have a 'read the fucking source before you build and run it' warning, does that count ?	[13:15]
*	OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[13:15]
Chillum	I am glad I did	[13:15]
Chillum	read the patches before running it	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	"an implementation failure" ? the time we took out usg's most valuable asset and publicly shot it in the head was "an implementation failure" "?	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	what was tikrit then ?	[13:16]
mats	have you read the openssl code Chillum?	[13:16]
funkenstein_	chillum its not the encryption thats broken its the authentication	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform btw, is the "valued crypto" bit starting to fuzz over there ?	[13:16]
asciilifeform	Chillum: did you also sleep through, e.g., 'stuxnet' having a perfectly legal ssl cert ?	[13:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: valued ?	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform didn't you use to bemoan the fact that "no valued crypto stuff is ever leaked" ?	[13:17]
Chillum	so because ssl has had problems it is better to use plain text?	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	maybe it just doesn't look like what you expect is iall.	[13:18]
Chillum	security is layers, that is how the industry works	[13:18]
mats	lol	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	Chillum "i like turd pancakes, it's my groupthink"	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	srsly...	[13:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 0day isn't a cryptodirectorat affair	[13:18]
Chillum	SSL will stop all but the most advanced of attackers	[13:18]
mats	use other crypto	[13:18]
Chillum	okay sure, turd pancakes	[13:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 0days live in the 0day directorat.	[13:18]
Chillum	love em,	[13:18]
Chillum	nom nom nom	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	"ssl will stop all but the actual attacks you will encounter"	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you wrote the meta-nsa micromanagement three ring binder too ?	[13:19]
Chillum	actual encounters = some script kiddie running ettercap to intercept your traffic	[13:19]
funkenstein_	Chillum, go listen to moxie marlinspike's talks on the topic	[13:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no but did read the table of directorates circa 2003 (see log ~6mo ago)	[13:19]
Chillum	not all attackers are people in dark server rooms with ciggerette smoking g men behind them	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ incidentally, about 5x better than sending someone to go listen to something is transcribing the something so they can read it.	[13:19]
funkenstein_	good point	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	Chillum just all the ones you should practically care about.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	get your security to where usg fails, you'll do fine.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	^	[13:20]
funkenstein_	nokia was caught capturing all ssl traffic through their networks at one point	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	get it to any other standard, you'll do as bad as all the schmucks on windows	[13:20]
Chillum	It is clear I have stumbled into a religious debate. I have no more interest in changing your mind about SSL than I do with you changing my mind. I will run SSL on my bitcoind API if you don't mind.	[13:20]
funkenstein_	sslsniff is a tool you can use to capture ssl data	[13:21]
funkenstein_	if you are a script kiddie	[13:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84000 @ 0.00027191 = 22.8404 BTC [+]	[13:21]
asciilifeform	Chillum: you can run feathercoin on tops-10 for all we care	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	Chillum definitely can run whatever the heck you please.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	but a debate doesn't become religious by declaratory relief from having to think about it.	[13:21]
Chillum	I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by saying SSL is not a turd, if this is a controversial statement I will keep it to myself	[13:21]
funkenstein_	but when and why would bitcoind use ssl?	[13:21]
asciilifeform	Chillum: but if you are interested in actually learning something, try to understand how we reached this particular conclusion	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	offending people is required to participate here i thought.	[13:22]
funkenstein_	all of bitcoin communications are plaintext and public right?	[13:22]
Chillum	asciilifeform: nobody is disputing that SSL has issues, but plaintext is not a better alternative	[13:22]
asciilifeform	let's take it in pieces. plaintext of what ?	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	Chillum have you seen the numerous cases where we pass back and forth "plaintext" over pastebin here ?	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	it starts generally with five dashes.	[13:23]
Chillum	I am going to get some fresh air	[13:23]
funkenstein_	all TXs, block DL requests, block solution reports, node announcements etc.	[13:23]
funkenstein_	are plaintext	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	well.. "plaintext"	[13:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00027449 = 10.7875 BTC [+]	[13:24]
Chillum	API	[13:24]
*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:24]
Chillum	along with it api keys	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	i don't think that's a supported usecase as of yet ? mebbe i'm behind here.	[13:25]
asciilifeform	api of what ?	[13:25]
asciilifeform	bitcoind ?	[13:25]
ben_vulpes	0.5.3.1?	[13:25]
ben_vulpes	has use cases?	[13:25]
asciilifeform	Chillum: were you speaking of a 'hotwallet' ?	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes troll.	[13:25]
ben_vulpes	[14:55] In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out << dude this is a something like 4 month long project going on here	[13:26]
Chillum	yes I am building a full node on a raspberry pi 2 to be used as a hot wallet	[13:26]
ben_vulpes	there is more context in this channel than dreamt of in all of reddit, Chillum	[13:26]
ben_vulpes	maybe instead of "herp derp i pinions bros" you might start by asking "why did you rip TLS out with such anger and speed?"	[13:27]
Chillum	if you were not using a wallet then I agree SSL is pointless	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes he's not from reddit, he's from wikipedia. pls to not insult teh muggles with misidentification.	[13:27]
asciilifeform	Chillum: if you are presently living in a one-bit universe where the only two choices for hotwallet control are ssl and plaintext - first you have to consider moving out of that universe and into a neighbouring one, where there are other choices	[13:27]
Chillum	I could ssh tunnel	[13:28]
ben_vulpes	Chillum: programmatic BTC remittance?	[13:28]
funkenstein_	i thought ssl was for websites	[13:28]
Chillum	but ssh uses... ssl	[13:28]
asciilifeform	Chillum: even this - improvement. because you control the keys.	[13:28]
chetty	ssl is for fools	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ ssl is for any application where security theatre is +ev and security itself doesn't matter.	[13:28]
funkenstein_	sslol	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	blogs, guestbooks, whatevs.	[13:28]
Chillum	you can control the keys in ssl. You don't have to use existing authority chains you can make your own	[13:28]
Chillum	in fact trusting verisign or something to authenticate keys is the root of most problems	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	Chillum and also make your own implementation, to not depend on "implementation errors" ?	[13:29]
funkenstein_	for example if i am trying to publish a transaction to the world with my wallet, why would i encrypt it before sending?	[13:29]
asciilifeform	Chillum: try to deploy a self-signed thing commercially and be buried in whines from idiots whose browsers flash red.	[13:29]
pete_dushenski	http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/#comment-13873 << lol mr. mycelium comes back for 'correction'	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	in which case... why are you even using it ?	[13:29]
assbot	Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0hill )	[13:29]
Chillum	all tools have potential for implementation errors	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	Chillum the problem is we know ssl to be intentionally misimplemented. as you say, on layers.	[13:29]
Chillum	funkenstein_: you don't. Buy when you contact the API and provide your API keys you want that encyrpted	[13:29]
funkenstein_	what wallet has api keys?	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski is that actually the guy ? who even made mycellium ?	[13:30]
Chillum	the cert system is for sure	[13:30]
Chillum	funkenstein_: bitcoin JPSON-RPC	[13:30]
Chillum	JSON	[13:30]
*	diana_coman has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[13:30]
funkenstein_	ah ok now we are getting somewhere	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	oh rassah, i remember this.	[13:30]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: ayup.	[13:30]
Chillum	also when using the API we will be passing private keys	[13:30]
Chillum	very sensitive information	[13:30]
funkenstein_	sounds like a bad idea	[13:31]
funkenstein_	why would you do that?	[13:31]
Chillum	how would you import a key into a wallet if not with the API?	[13:31]
funkenstein_	importprivkey	[13:31]
Chillum	it is an automated system so no mouse clicks	[13:31]
Chillum	that is an API command	[13:31]
funkenstein_	it is not remote	[13:31]
Chillum	sockets vs tcp, should be secure both ways	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	Chillum generally, the idea being that running a wallet client and a bitcoin node on the same system (let alone in the same program) is beyond idiotic.	[13:32]
funkenstein_	ok if you run a bitcoind on a remote machine.. ssh into it	[13:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11766 @ 0.00027449 = 3.2296 BTC [+]	[13:32]
funkenstein_	then you are using ssl	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	that idiocy was easily excusable in 2009. meanwhile, we just don't do that.	[13:32]
*	OneNomos (~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	and whatever customers may "have come to expect", bitcoin is too valuable to cater to that in breach of security and safety. so, options that are by their nature insecure shouldn't be provided at all.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	whoever wants them can put them in, like you say above.	[13:33]
ben_vulpes	Chillum: what precisely are you building?	[13:34]
danielpbarron	fodder for a future qntra article	[13:34]
Chillum	just a bitcoind node with a wallet and a firewall and an API	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	all on one computer ?	[13:35]
Chillum	if the built in API is really that insecure I suppose I can write an access layer	[13:35]
ben_vulpes	dude	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	single machine paradigm is flawed for this application.	[13:35]
Chillum	what exactly does more than one computer get me?	[13:35]
ben_vulpes	the thing calling into your wallet is also an attack point	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	separation of red and black.	[13:35]
mod6	plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima	[13:36]
mod6	*trilema	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	in other news,	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	Hi,	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	Hope you are doing well. I am a client services manager here at AdMedia. I was wondering if there might be a possible partnership opportunity between our two companies. We have previously and recently ran campaigns for trilema.com via third party networks. We wanted to discuss the opportunity of working directly	[13:36]
*	mircea_popescu is pretty fucking impressed with admedia atm.	[13:36]
Chillum	So if I understand correctly SSL was removed because if I need SSL I am doing it wrong?	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[13:36]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: because they can spell and write their own e-mails ?	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski and read their own dbs and advanced shit like that!	[13:37]
Chillum	May I suggest that you describe your best practices so that people running this SSL free code will know how to not do it wrong?	[13:37]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: holy cramoly!	[13:37]
Chillum	I would love to read an essay describing the sort of infractructure you find safe	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	Chillum http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076921 ?	[13:37]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 16:31:34; mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	not that i've (and others) not said the same thingee.	[13:37]
Chillum	I am interested in other ideas, it is just a bit hard to understand what your best practices are	[13:37]
Chillum	I will read _some_ of the logs later	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[13:38]
asciilifeform	Chillum: http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide << good starting point	[13:38]
assbot	How to airgap. A practical guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/19ajNp3 )	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	not like there's any rush. and generally, the stuff you're used to worrying about holds no sway here. so.. .jus relax an' enjoy.	[13:38]
ben_vulpes	also	[13:38]
ben_vulpes	0.5.3.1 is not for use in 'anger'.	[13:38]
Chillum	avoiding the need for encryption on the API through sound security practices is one thing. Recommending something without encryption without describing those practices is a recipe for disaster.	[13:38]
ben_vulpes	if you want to run it, and can read the provided documentation, do so.	[13:39]
ben_vulpes	if you haven't, stop in here and expose your ignorance for all.	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	Chillum yeah. like, you know, how the bitcoin wallets were plaintext for... i dunno, 3years or so.	[13:39]
asciilifeform	Chillum: at present there is no chance of a 'civilian' stumbling upon 0.5.3.1 and putting it to use	[13:39]
ben_vulpes	Chillum: some day i'd like this thing to not even have a json/rpc api.	[13:39]
Chillum	It was recommended to me by two people here before I read the patches	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this may or may not be true, upon contemplation.	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	mod6 ben_vulpes you think some warnings should be brewed maybe ?	[13:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: would be hilarious if someone found, built, then cried	[13:40]
Chillum	air-gap is not an option for me, it needs to be automated	[13:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: but i don't expect to see this	[13:40]
ben_vulpes	me neither.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he said it just happened ?	[13:40]
asciilifeform	nah he read the patches and upchucked	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	he did.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	someone else ?	[13:40]
Chillum	though it will use a cold-wallet reserve system to minimize exposure	[13:40]
ben_vulpes	perhaps throw an error on boot if someone tries to use the tls flags.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	Chillum : better plan, sign your txn off the hot box, import them there through private connection.	[13:41]
Chillum	again, needs to be automated	[13:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00027545 = 5.4264 BTC [+]	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes dunno how best implemented, but he raises a good point we're prone to neglect : as exposure increases, which it necessarily will,	[13:41]
Chillum	oh	[13:41]
Chillum	i see	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	the number of random people trying random things will exponential	[13:41]
Chillum	was going to use firewall enforced vpn	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	that may actually work.	[13:42]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: feel free to lift the ascii jolly roger from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html for the warning banner...	[13:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/19akQFF )	[13:42]
asciilifeform	if you like	[13:42]
ben_vulpes	chill	[13:42]
Chillum	you guys should make a white paper	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	firewalls are finnicy to setup, but once correctly setup on a linux box they're reliable.	[13:42]
ben_vulpes	Chillum: and if the web host talking to the API gets compromised?	[13:43]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[13:43]
asciilifeform	Chillum: we do human skin parchments instead of white papers here.	[13:43]
ben_vulpes	you guys should make a white paper << myeah. someday, i'm sure.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes it'd be one way nah ? from his wallet to the node. not the other way.	[13:43]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu as seen in my latest submit: "Follow these instructions at your own peril, and upon risk of divestment, dismemberment, or death."	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` too cutsy to be effectual imo, but hey.	[13:44]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: well something has to poke the wallet in an automated fashion	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[13:44]
nubbins`	all of those things are possible and if you press alf he'll admit that he expects all three	[13:44]
ben_vulpes	because he's building a robo-remitter?!	[13:44]
Chillum	ben_vulpes: That is always a risk with a hot wallet, but if the system needs to be automated then what is the alternative?	[13:45]
Chillum	If the solution being offered is an air-gap then that only works in certain scenarios	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	Chillum not to pry into your soul here, but mind describing the cause of the need for automation ?	[13:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00027548 = 14.8208 BTC [+] {2}	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	an airgap is merely a golden standard BECAUSE it disallows automation. there's ipso definitio no automated airgap.	[13:46]
Chillum	Security is easy if you have to manually approve each and every transaction	[13:46]
ben_vulpes	Chillum:	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	not so easy and quite expensive, which is why alternatives are always tempting. but go on ?	[13:47]
ben_vulpes	what are you building.	[13:47]
Chillum	most companies want tools that work without their intervention	[13:47]
asciilifeform	(note to n00bs - this is a good place to point out that the 'air' in an airgap is more than physical concept: i.e. a machine controlled via radio in real time is not 'airgapped')	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	most people want trees that shit prune juice too.	[13:47]
ben_vulpes	pre-fermented at that	[13:47]
Chillum	consider the use case of a service that rents say minecraft servers by the hour. The user need to be able to establish a balance and later withdraw their balance when they are done in a reasonable amount of time	[13:48]
*	asciilifeform believes that 'meatgap' would be a more descriptive term for the concept	[13:48]
nubbins`	heh	[13:48]
Chillum	the owner relies on it being low maintenance in order for it to be profitable	[13:48]
ben_vulpes	Chillum: 2 points:	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?	[13:48]
Chillum	which is very common in internet based companies	[13:48]
ben_vulpes	1) what are you building	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes he basically wants trilema credits for whatever.	[13:48]
ben_vulpes	2) if it's that low margin, why bother in the first place?	[13:48]
Chillum	mircea_popescu: I bet.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	Chillum i've been trying to shoehorn random people into doing it since... omgerd 2013.	[13:49]
Chillum	you do realize that some of the most successful internet companies are low margin right?	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell pinkposixpxe hai!	[13:49]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:49]
Chillum	well the issue with bitcoin hosting is lack of accountability. The guy who is renting the servers to the bitcoin anon will get the abuse complaints when they spam	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	nah, all wot based.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	you only work with !rated ppls.	[13:50]
Chillum	which is why software as a service is a better option	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	neah.	[13:50]
Chillum	well mircea I can write a wrapper for AWS that accepts bitcoins from people on a whitelist	[13:50]
Chillum	it will be a lot of work to do it securely though	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	most everyone here can spin an aws in ten minutes.	[13:51]
Chillum	but if there is demand and a willingness to pay a reasonable markup	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	the idea is to get bare metal.	[13:51]
asciilifeform	Chillum: can't speak for others but i in particular am interested specifically in migrating -from- aws	[13:51]
asciilifeform	aws is the 'mcdonalds' of hosting.	[13:51]
Chillum	I could offer raspberry pis, but you would need to VPN your own internet connection to them, I don't want bitcoin/irc dudes using my home internet lulz	[13:51]
ben_vulpes	http://waifu.xyz/slurp/g/2661568_black_science.webm	[13:51]
assbot	waifu.xyz - g ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0pCBq )	[13:51]
Chillum	I got 5 Pi 2s and 10 more on the way	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	lmao.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	did i post the crates of pogos anywhere or not yet ?	[13:52]
asciilifeform	Chillum: pretty much everyone reading this has fiber to the grounds and a crate of small computers, just as happenstance	[13:52]
ben_vulpes	no pics, no mircea_popescu	[13:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: your crate or mine	[13:52]
asciilifeform	mine - was here	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	ok, he posted his, good enuff.	[13:52]
Chillum	having a crate of computers is great. Having them all work on the same problem at the same time is awesome	[13:53]
asciilifeform	but if mircea_popescu has a railroad car it'll be great for morale & lulz	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	Chillum they're for fixing the bitcoin nodes hole.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dun really has that many, no.	[13:53]
Chillum	well you would want network diversity for that	[13:53]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you recall, nubbins` did discovere where to get if you felt like it.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[13:53]
Chillum	release a screensaver that does it lol, worked for SETI	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	Chillum this is not half a bad idea, actually.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	a 30G++++ screen saver ?	[13:54]
asciilifeform	and reintroduction of winblows? ugh.	[13:54]
Chillum	but it has to look cool, do something like: http://www.bitlisten.com/	[13:54]
assbot	BitListen - Bitcoin Transaction Visualizer ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0qztE )	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform run it through cygwin :D	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	Chillum i was thinking, get the naked ladies to do specials.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	l0l lusers will install cygwin runtime? aha, sure.	[13:55]
nubbins`	heeeeeh	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	windows people. will install anything.	[13:55]
Chillum	most resource expensive screensaver EVER	[13:55]
*	asciilifeform once had a full-blown build of xorg and other userland under cygwin, when worked in usg and forced to use winblows box	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	Chillum so what, let intel do 10nm!	[13:55]
Chillum	Instead of renting servers send cheap computers to volunteers for free. Will be cheaper in the long run	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if you recall, his argument 10 minutes ago stated correctly that "people will install anything at any time for any reason	[13:56]
Chillum	just make sure you remove the bootloader so they can't reflash it	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	but usually for no reason at all."	[13:56]
Chillum	otherwise people will volunteer for free hardware	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	Chillum you gotta understand how the wot works.	[13:56]
Chillum	it works great, but only to a certain scale	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	and you know this because...	[13:57]
Chillum	well can the WoT give you 20,000 volunteers if you needed them?	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	democracy works great but only on a certain scale.	[13:57]
Chillum	agreed	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	the wot works perfectly well on any scale larger than where a democracy breaks down	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	if you need 20k volunteers you're doing it wrong.	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	this is sparta, not rome.	[13:57]
Chillum	okay fair enough. I dont' know what scale you are working on	[13:58]
Chillum	I think big	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	no, you don't. you just imagine you do.	[13:58]
Chillum	ah I will reflect on that	[13:58]
ben_vulpes	!b 3	[13:58]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2GD3RS4.txt )	[13:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48382 @ 0.00027576 = 13.3418 BTC [+]	[13:58]
Chillum	lol	[13:58]
nubbins`	Chillum, you're thicker-skinned than most	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	than most whats ?	[13:59]
nubbins`	others 8)	[13:59]
Chillum	I have been an admin on wikipedia for 8 years, the thin skinned ones die out	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` formulate plan : only invite potheads to b-a. nubbins` looks upon results : good good goood!	[14:00]
Chillum	we deal with flat earthers on a daily basis	[14:00]
nubbins`	lel. i can imagine.	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	srsly ?!	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	that thing still goes ?	[14:00]
Chillum	oh ya	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	dude how the fuck.	[14:00]
Chillum	creationists, flat earthers, anti-vacers, young earthers	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	i mean, sa kruger going "impossible" i can see. it was early.	[14:00]
Chillum	crazy people all day long	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	but by now ? how the fuck would you think it's flat. "because it looks flat from space" ?	[14:01]
nubbins`	the satellite launches are hoaxes	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	even fucking romania launched one!	[14:01]
Chillum	it involved sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"	[14:01]
nubbins`	those dots you see moving, unblinking, across the sky 20x a night are the lizards	[14:01]
Chillum	oh ya the lizards	[14:01]
Chillum	we hear from the people trying to reveal the truth about the lizards a lot	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	Chillum i understand how the stupidity defends itself - like any other. what encuriouses me is... how does it get born.	[14:01]
Chillum	and of course the jews did 911	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	!s lizard hitler	[14:02]
assbot	47 results for 'lizard hitler' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lizard+hitler	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	of course the jews did 911	[14:02]
nubbins`	hahahaha	[14:02]
Chillum	It was not born, ignorance predates knowledge	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	!ban Chillum jews did 911 denier	[14:02]
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Chillum	don't quote me out of context lol	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	(the funniest thing about this is that not having read the logs, he can't help but wonder about it lol)	[14:02]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu +1	[14:02]
nubbins`	"47 results for lizard hitler" my sides	[14:03]
*	OneNomos (~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:03]
ben_vulpes	#ba is tops on my google for lizard hitler	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` i mostly blame alf	[14:04]
ben_vulpes	who sez they don't use algos anymore, eh?	[14:04]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[14:04]
ben_vulpes	someday we'll be tops for any string starting with turd as well	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes they still use algorithmics for the outskirts. which is why the "long tail" revolution happened in seo.	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, it's a handcrafted list.	[14:04]
ben_vulpes	and we can blame alfie for that too	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	like the nyt review of books, but for websites.	[14:05]
ben_vulpes	yeah, let's bring back the directories!	[14:05]
ben_vulpes	oh man.	[14:05]
Chillum	a hand crafted index of the internet?	[14:05]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu it's not his fault that conspiracy theory concepts are good metaphors for the actual missed points	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	so stupid right ?	[14:05]
ben_vulpes	now i want a directory!	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` blame does not attach to fault, blame attaches to agency.	[14:05]
nubbins`	OH HO	[14:06]
*	funkenstein_ (~josed@host86-187-163-71.range86-187.btcentralplus.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:06]
nubbins`	chew on that	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	yw.	[14:06]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ ftr, since im here my brain has decided to multivocalize all j's as h's too, for good measure. and as you logged in it just proposed "hosed" as a possible interpretation of your user.	[14:07]
*	OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	so i guess now you're hosed.	[14:08]
funkenstein_	actually that is how that username was born :)	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	fuck me ?! srsly ?	[14:09]
funkenstein_	somebody was talking about a "hosed bus" when i needed to pick one	[14:09]
funkenstein_	sounds like you are becoming a real porteno	[14:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00027576 = 2.6473 BTC [+]	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes that's nothing, he's permeating harem speech. yest i was waffling over whether to go to icecream place, girl goes "well not like we gotta go and get the imensatron necessarily". ie, we could get a smaller tub. but no - imensaTRON!!1	[14:10]
ben_vulpes	by the way what is up with billinghurst	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	what about it ?	[14:10]
ben_vulpes	it's the only word where the l's are pronounced?	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which, anyone care to guess the name of the street my office's on ? its a food item.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha bishinghurst	[14:10]
ben_vulpes	> get in cab	[14:11]
funkenstein_	calle de lomo	[14:11]
ben_vulpes	> "bishinghurst"	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	dude. i been despising their local accent and doing the proper y = ll thing, but im totally going to say it as bishinghurst	[14:11]
ben_vulpes	> two minutes of confusion	[14:11]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: glhf	[14:11]
ben_vulpes	i'd like to see you do this to some poor cabbie	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	good long hard fucking ?	[14:12]
ben_vulpes	lol no are you trying to intuit from context again?!	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	cuntext but yes.	[14:12]
ben_vulpes	"good luck have fun"	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	mine's better and will overtake yours	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	by having more childrens.	[14:13]
ben_vulpes	somehow i doubt you're going to have more children than me	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	strawman. the EXPRESSION is. not me.	[14:14]
ben_vulpes	YOUR LINE DIES WITH YOU	[14:14]
mircea_popescu	dude your line's not even been to any masculinity conferences.	[14:14]
mircea_popescu	(and no, my office is on pringles st.)	[14:15]
ben_vulpes	i was actually musing on the absence of any leads-only tango practicas in town	[14:15]
danielpbarron	scam! you said it was a food.. :p	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes what's that ?	[14:15]
ben_vulpes	nominally, at one point in history, you weren't allowed to lead at a milonga until you'd been more or less given permission from the other leads in town.	[14:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49813 @ 0.00027608 = 13.7524 BTC [+] {2}	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	> If you saw it tonight at marias taco xpress	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	>Texas Bitcoin Conference	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	wtf srsly ?	[14:16]
ben_vulpes	first, you had to learn to lead by following at the leads practicas, then they'd teach you to lead, then eventually you'd get to go to the milongas.	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes their wot died under consumerismo-socialism & peron.	[14:16]
ben_vulpes	yes i know	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	"but i like to kvetch"	[14:17]
ben_vulpes	musing!	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076548 << tbh i suspect it's a sexual dysfunction.	[14:17]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 11:54:19; nubbins`: "that's such an /american/ thing, hey? 'mentoring'? movin' to a big city and getting yourself a mentor or five?"	[14:17]
ben_vulpes	anyways, point is that it's difficult to learn to lead from followers.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	you don't say!	[14:18]
ben_vulpes	tautological almost :P	[14:18]
ben_vulpes	and no leaders are interested in growing more leaders.	[14:19]
ben_vulpes	well, very few.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076568 << am i the only one who finds the fact that nubbins` had to put FOUR excuses to doing a blog in the blog fucking domain hysterical ?	[14:19]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 13:08:43; nubbins`: but just in case: http://madcaptomfoolery.ca	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	yo nubsy it's ok baby. a blog is not unlike a penis.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	no need to apologize.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	also it doesn't load.	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	"Sat across from a serious man. He’s sunken himself into the soft underbelly of a woman. A fox, true 1960 pussy. Her silver hair knotted in a fat bun, loose upon her neck. "	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	notbad.jpg	[14:22]
danielpbarron	https://archive.today/k6oGP	[14:22]
assbot	madcap tomfoolery \| we write, you read. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0AWO2 )	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076586 << also a criminal entreprise, but something tells me tough on his bosses enemies bharara isn't about to bust out the rico and send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars a head.	[14:24]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 13:41:23; nubbins`: like a web ring, but funner and in meatspace	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	now on the other hand if they happened to you know, do that unspeakable crime aaron schwartz kid's guilty of...	[14:24]
trinque	+Chillum \| I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed << the whole RPC thing will likely come out, not for speed but for blowtorching complexity	[14:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00027656 = 5.0749 BTC [+]	[14:25]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron danke. it loaded eventually.	[14:25]
Chillum	trinque: yes I came to understand that	[14:25]
trinque	ah just reading logs :)	[14:25]
Chillum	makes a lot of sense in a cold wallet system	[14:26]
Chillum	air-gapped that is	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell bingoboingo http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076591 << mebbe qntra worthy, if linked with discussion of "buenos aires embassy" ? dunno.	[14:26]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[14:26]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:08:34; nubbins`: http://cointelegraph.com/news/113811/bitcoin-embassy-amsterdam-founder-booted-from-organization-starts-second-embassy	[14:26]
nubbins`	angle of who the fuck declares themselves an ambassador of btc anyway	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	"clearly nobody actually associated".	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	long history of this schmuckerdom, who was that polyanna something chick that was doing the "Bitcoin chamber of commerce" ?	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	for some reason i have trouble with her name.	[14:27]
nubbins`	lel	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	anyway.	[14:27]
*	McNumpty has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076596 << i dun think we want one, but if you wish to be the b-a ambassador into the midwest... that and india possibly the only places that need an embassy from la serenissima. and candi's got the india.	[14:28]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:10:38; PeterL: When does #b-a start our own emabassies?	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076608 << now say it in carson voice.	[14:29]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:23:56; Chillum: I did not know that	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` you ever tried soldering a sata on see what happens ?	[14:30]
nubbins`	sadly no connector handy, but i'm definitely putting a pin in it for later.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	(odds are the pads are just there because mass produced item)	[14:31]
nubbins`	^	[14:31]
nubbins`	altho it looks like they're connected to traces.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	but there's a vague possibility whole shebang's there and disabled in software	[14:31]
nubbins`	there's no mounting holes on this pcb for the top usb port, either, so it's entirely possible the mobile and series4 have different pcbs	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076637 << happens to be the eventual goal of the foundation.	[14:33]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:43:57; Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client	[14:33]
nubbins`	yeah, they're different boards	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	consensus is the sort of thing in bitcoind is probably a lead cause of abortion, lead poisoning, fetal alcohol syndrome and the woes of the rings of saturn	[14:33]
nubbins`	so... shrug. maybe it's like the rtc -- there for the user to add	[14:33]
trinque	en_vulpes \| has use cases? << ehehehe one would hope eventually!	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	dude check it out, someone who remembers how bad bittorrent was originally.	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	ftr, for the new souls : torrents were originally dismissed on the strength of how bad the shit / code was originally, as "this'll never work"	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	felipelalli prolly ask fluffypony i think he's the only one here keeping an eye on monero.	[14:35]
Chillum	lol I remember how bad trading files with IRC and FTP was, then I how bad bittorrent was	[14:36]
nubbins`	oh, and guess who just un-bricked their pogo? http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dmveVt3N	[14:36]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0FX9n )	[14:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1D0FXpM )	[14:36]
Chillum	usenet for the win!	[14:36]
fluffypony	felipelalli: I can arrange an OTC buy if you need, else Poloniex / Bittrex	[14:36]
fluffypony	well done nubbins`	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	Chillum didja also know naggum ?	[14:36]
Chillum	I remember when people first started making mp3s	[14:36]
*	OneNomos (~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:36]
Chillum	did not know naggum	[14:36]
nubbins`	fluffypony ty :D	[14:36]
fluffypony	Chillum: I remember ripping CDs to MP3s at real time speed	[14:36]
Chillum	I remember when my apple IIgs was pretty neato	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` ain't fixing something great ? almost better than having made it in the first place!	[14:37]
Chillum	I rocked the vic20	[14:37]
fluffypony	through a fake microphone driver	[14:37]
nubbins`	wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer?	[14:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71650 @ 0.00027721 = 19.8621 BTC [+] {3}	[14:37]
Chillum	it has a cassette tape drive	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	i would, yes.	[14:37]
Chillum	you had to press play or record to load or save a file	[14:37]
nubbins`	:S	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	Chillum : be-beep beee-dfkljgkjdfhgkjhkgher	[14:37]
fluffypony	aaah good old Commodore 64 days	[14:38]
Chillum	yes	[14:38]
Chillum	you know the sound	[14:38]
fluffypony	time to save my game...presses record on the tape player	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	everyone here is very old.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	for we are all dragons.	[14:38]
Chillum	similar to but different than a 300 baud modem	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	yeah same principle.	[14:38]
funkenstein_	Chillum, what kind of chip you have in there, a Dorrito?	[14:38]
asciilifeform	but no - imensaTRON!!1 << l0l	[14:38]
Chillum	I used to pick up pager signals with my scanner and decode them through my sound card.	[14:38]
Chillum	lol	[14:38]
Chillum	was just listening to that funkenstein	[14:38]
*	asciilifeform did this to the folks he works with in meatspace, also to some extent	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	you're like a weed.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	a weed in lizard hitler's bunker.	[14:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26036 @ 0.00027868 = 7.2557 BTC [+]	[14:39]
*	asciilifeform speaking to pet is most of the way unintelligible to bystanders, for instance	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	this is how it should be.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	(twist : alf speaks iidish at home)	[14:40]
Chillum	I smoke weed for breakfast!	[14:40]
asciilifeform	send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars << weren't they chinese? or is this a different set of hucksters this time	[14:40]
Chillum	god bless the grass that grows between the cracks	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	seems a new set, haven't dug.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	I KNEW nubbins` is trying to stuff the weed ballot.	[14:41]
asciilifeform	tried soldering a sata on see what happens ? << it is quite likely missing some of the passives too	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	99%, but let him have fun. the 1% is there.	[14:41]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 << technically it wasn't really -bricked- unless you had to do the boot-via-xmodem thing	[14:42]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIv2d )	[14:42]
asciilifeform	(i.e. internal flash totally b0rked including uboot)	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076664 << Chillum currently we're using the pogos for ~19 dollar nodes.	[14:42]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:50:26; Chillum: I just need to make a $100 node	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	you should look into that.	[14:42]
nubbins`	yeah, i'm being loose w/ words	[14:42]
nubbins`	i actually just mistakenly wiped the bootcmd env variable	[14:43]
danielpbarron	19 USD + storage device	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	"o what's this ? fuck it, don't need it. uh... wait."	[14:43]
asciilifeform	wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer? << notice the unpopulated row of pins at bottom end of pcb? those are gpio's and you can attach random strange to them	[14:43]
Chillum	interesting	[14:43]
nubbins`	did indeed!	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	buy a pogo try it out, look into the past week's log it's full of people working on it, danielpbarron posted some excellent guides.	[14:44]
nubbins`	i'll be back in 6 months with this wired into a home automation system	[14:44]
asciilifeform	...good old Commodore 64 >>> http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/parallelsid/parasid.html	[14:44]
assbot	Parallel Port SID6581 Interface ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIGui )	[14:44]
nubbins`	lighting levels tied to network hashrate	[14:44]
danielpbarron	Chillum, http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/spec.html	[14:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIIm8 )	[14:44]
nubbins`	also http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/howto.txt	[14:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GSndrC )	[14:44]
nubbins`	and if you're really interested, http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/notes.html	[14:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NoILOH )	[14:44]
danielpbarron	the notes page is a really raw collection of links and commands	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron srsly why not a blog format ?	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	how are people to find one from the other ?	[14:45]
Chillum	danielpbarron: so where do I get one?	[14:45]
danielpbarron	the root directory	[14:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27317 @ 0.00027868 = 7.6127 BTC [+]	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron and as you keep writing ?	[14:45]
danielpbarron	Chillum, i've been getting them from amazon	[14:45]
danielpbarron	i keep adding to those files	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[14:45]
danielpbarron	bad?	[14:46]
*	Chillum goes to look on ebay	[14:46]
trinque	ben_vulpes \| now i want a directory! << here comes the #b-a gopher site	[14:46]
asciilifeform	make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron if you're specifically making an experiment about it (which means, you've modeled it, doing things deliberately to observe effects etc) i can see it.	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	otherwise... the consensus seems to be blog.	[14:46]
trinque	god damn those were good logs	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dunno anyone that doesn't have a "dead" old sata laying around.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	but sure, if you're buying a new disk, takes you to 100ish	[14:47]
danielpbarron	what does everyone else do for blogging?	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	wp, which sucks, or else ben_vulpes' homeroll thing, which sucks.	[14:47]
trinque	danielpbarron: there's neutering wordpress or using some static site generator	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	they suck for different reasons tho.	[14:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: old buggered mechanical satas aren't quite as nice, but certainly usable. the thing definitely sources sufficient amps for them	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	mhm.	[14:48]
asciilifeform	(vendor's 24W brick)	[14:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00028053 = 1.9497 BTC [+]	[14:48]
danielpbarron	my solid state sata is at 24 gigs, the 5400 rpm one is at 6.5 gigs	[14:49]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: no other differences ?	[14:49]
danielpbarron	it seems to freeze up more often	[14:49]
asciilifeform	i meant, in the machines	[14:49]
danielpbarron	oh, no	[14:49]
asciilifeform	aha	[14:49]
trinque	what's the latest compile 0.5.3.1 for pogo doc, if any?	[14:49]
trinque	meanwhile I'll get cross compiling tooling going	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	actual chain + index ~39.5 gb atm	[14:50]
asciilifeform	trinque: danielpbarron's	[14:50]
asciilifeform	trinque: by all means build cross-compiler for your system, but when i put the buildroot thing up it will carry its own	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	blkindex0016 almost full, which brings the following issue :	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	what happens once we're over 10k x 2gb = 20tb of blockchain ?	[14:50]
danielpbarron	i don't have a doc for 0.5.3.1 unless it counts to have one for the pre-release patching of 0.5.3	[14:50]
asciilifeform	(buildroot demands nothing but your platform's native gcc and takes it from there until the bitter end, the actual armv5 images)	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	y2k for btc!	[14:50]
trinque	asciilifeform: I've got enough arm turdboards lying around to justify it	[14:50]
*	pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[14:50]
Chillum	amazon canada sucks	[14:51]
asciilifeform	trinque: note that each such board is likely wanting its own gcc	[14:51]
danielpbarron	i need to reformat my laptop.. AGAIN	[14:51]
asciilifeform	arm is notoriously fragmented into incompatible turddoms	[14:51]
trinque	asciilifeform: ah ok, other than this I have pis	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	Chillum if you absolutely can't find one i'll ok you to get one from our warehouse at dpb	[14:51]
trinque	I'll just get both going, probably just some eselect thing in gentoo right?	[14:51]
asciilifeform	pi1 was armv6, pi2 - armv7	[14:52]
Chillum	I am going to read up on them first. Thanks	[14:52]
danielpbarron	it's unlikely i can ship it cheaper than amazon	[14:52]
danielpbarron	if he's just getting 1	[14:52]
trinque	got both	[14:52]
Chillum	I will either want 0 or 10+, I rarely get 1 of any small computer	[14:52]
Chillum	they work better in little tribes	[14:52]
danielpbarron	i think 18 fit nicely in a crate	[14:53]
Chillum	I have a lot of Pi 2s to setup right now. I will look into the pogos though	[14:54]
trinque	danielpbarron: mine arrived from amazon in 4 days with standard shipping, ymmv	[14:55]
nubbins`	Chillum goes to look on ebay <<< cheaper on amazon, almost certainly	[14:57]
nubbins`	<+asciilifeform> make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata <<< 64gb on the way, should get me through to the summer at least	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron yeah, which is why i said.	[14:58]
*	gernika (~awt@unaffiliated/gernika) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 20 * 6 * 24	[14:59]
gribble	2880	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	20 days of it at any rate.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	o wait i forgot, 20mb won't be used, it just needs to be there to not be used. right right.	[14:59]
Chillum	nubbins`: amazon canada sucks. $40, $30 on ebay	[14:59]
asciilifeform	https://octopart.com/search?q=marvell%20%2088F6192 << interestingly, it's either extinct or octo (a paul graham co.!) lies, lies.	[14:59]
assbot	marvell 88F6192 - Octopart	[14:59]
nubbins`	Chillum agreed. amazon usa, however...	[15:00]
danielpbarron	!up Bagels7	[15:00]
*	assbot gives voice to Bagels7	[15:00]
Chillum	I used to work for an Amazon company	[15:00]
Chillum	using massive arrays of cloud computers to reprice books as fast as possible compared to the market	[15:00]
*	asciilifeform was idly toying with determining what pogotron might actually cost to make in quantity	[15:00]
nubbins`	you can get used pogo (purple logo, w/ sata) for $15usd on amazon, used	[15:00]
Chillum	we would get two customer who wanted their price to be 1 cent below everyone else and we tried to explain that since they are not the only person doing it that they would drop to a penny	[15:01]
nubbins`	asciilifeform ++	[15:01]
Chillum	they insisted	[15:01]
asciilifeform	'marvell' per se doesn't turn up much either.	[15:01]
Chillum	then complained when it dropped to a penny	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i would suspect octo is just badly supplied.	[15:01]
asciilifeform	it normally has pretty accurate figures	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	the golden standard on ic sourcing is not some derpy valley website.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	does it ?	[15:01]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's a meta search	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	ianae	[15:02]
nubbins`	asciilifeform sort of the thing where you need a foot in the door before they'll even price it out for you	[15:02]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: this is my working hypothesis, marvell doesn't sell cut-tape	[15:02]
asciilifeform	(term of art)	[15:02]
asciilifeform	the other day i checked out what other system-on-chips might be cut-tapeable and have integrates sata, found nothing	[15:03]
asciilifeform	but that was just a hour's dig.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	Chillum excellent case study in why "customer getting what it tihinks it wants" is no business plan.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	another excellent case study, the ghetto butt lifts.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	i could go on.	[15:03]
punkman	asciilifeform: maybe an Allwinner chip?	[15:04]
nubbins`	yeah, banana cream pi	[15:04]
asciilifeform	punkman: too heavy	[15:04]
nubbins`	or w/e the fuck	[15:04]
asciilifeform	and i fucking hate bga	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i can see the case for this not being that commodified just yet. but imo unavoidable, with the trend towards it of which raspberry is just a reflection.	[15:04]
punkman	asciilifeform: what's heavy?	[15:04]
Chillum	mircea_popescu: they hire me as a developer, not a consultant	[15:04]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: as you can probably guess, i won't be making it just yet.	[15:04]
nubbins`	asciilifeform if you get in contact w/ marvell, you might suss out some contacts	[15:04]
punkman	there are kirkwoods without BGA?	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	Chillum your loss, pay sucks, job's not different.	[15:05]
Chillum	I could refuse on principal, someone else will make it	[15:05]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i am not interested in vendors who need a sexual relationship just to source parts for prototype.	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	principle.	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	principal is what you owe on a loan.	[15:05]
Chillum	I do alright	[15:05]
nubbins`	hey, your life	[15:05]
Chillum	I have created some truly stupid shit for people	[15:05]
nubbins`	it's not like i don't contact Franmar when i want to find out where to buy bean-e-doo	[15:05]
Chillum	you can't cure stupid	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	you can not make more tho.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform y u no sexual relationsheeps!	[15:06]
Chillum	freedom is the freedom to make mistakes. If people want to pay for something I will give it to them. I give free advice, it is rarely taken	[15:06]
Chillum	within reason of course	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	i can see that.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	but the freedom to make mistakes is a luxury not a freedom.	[15:07]
asciilifeform	http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/kirkwood << no mention of samplez	[15:07]
Chillum	frankly if I told my clients that they need to use an air-gap they would tell that it does not fit their business model. They would be right	[15:07]
assbot	Marvell - Embedded Processors - Kirkwood Series ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoLCqT )	[15:07]
asciilifeform	(that's usually how you get cut-tapes from vendors who don't sell'em)	[15:07]
Chillum	mircea_popescu: without the freedom to make mistakes you are forever under the tyranny of those who are "correct"	[15:07]
asciilifeform	Chillum: then you need new clients	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076683 << back-up is probably more adequate a description.	[15:07]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 14:58:02; PeterL: assbot is a gribble replacement	[15:07]
Chillum	we need random bad ideas	[15:07]
Chillum	sometimes they turn out to be good ideas	[15:08]
asciilifeform	Chillum: and if you can't get those, new line of work	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	and it's not in -otc for the reason any bot is not in any channel : admin didn't ask for it.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	(we asked for gribble here long ago, which is how it got to be here)	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	Chillum it's a horrible way to exploit kids, really.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	i'd much rather see honest sexual slavery than this bs "random bad ideas" exploitation.	[15:08]
Chillum	good to know that	[15:09]
danielpbarron	heh	[15:09]
asciilifeform	marvell registered in bermuda, l0l	[15:09]
asciilifeform	anyway -it doesn't have to be a marvell-	[15:10]
asciilifeform	just cost and feature parity.	[15:10]
asciilifeform	if someone has idle hands that can do a bit of digging - appreciated.	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i had been looking at this too.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	nothing good popped as of yet.	[15:11]
asciilifeform	perhaps by this time next year - i'll have a part number	[15:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i've been looking since before i mentioned pogo in b-a	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	i suspect on the score of electronics you actually beat my ppls.	[15:12]
asciilifeform	(it was pretty clear right off the bat that it's a loss-leader and ergo nonrenewableresource)	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	have been pondering if this pisses me off enough to do something about for a coupla months now.	[15:12]
asciilifeform	'this' being the certain doom of pogo as off-the-shelf machine? yes, it is necessary to do something. main boojum is the ram-poverty of most available hardware in that weight class.	[15:13]
asciilifeform	hence the near inevitability of having these baked like grown men	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076709 << then you explained it and she was all http://www.quickmeme.com/img/28/2811d1ad07d6a35d4acb0b245abaac396ffaa4c233cac0d55a7987ebfc8d425b.jpg	[15:14]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 15:08:04; nubbins`: ater some weeks: "...what's assbot?"	[15:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1D0TJbX )	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no, "this" being that my intel sucks!	[15:14]
asciilifeform	aha	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	ram poverty in more than one way.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	few have fast ram.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076714 << not a bad idea.	[15:15]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 15:10:24; thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)	[15:15]
nubbins`	http://www.marvell.com/sales/index.jsp?location=dc	[15:15]
asciilifeform	most of the ones i've purchased and cut open thus far have very similar 8 to 16-bit wide sdram (ddr2 typically) - almost always 'hynix' or samsung	[15:15]
assbot	Marvell - Company - Sales Offices ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0UkL0 )	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076730 << what's the protest over ?	[15:16]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 15:36:51; nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police	[15:16]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: no reason to marry marvell	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ever seen one with ddr3 ?	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	which is a better perk than whatever arm processor.	[15:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: nope and not sure that i would ask for ddr3	[15:17]
asciilifeform	!s rowhammer	[15:17]
assbot	5 results for 'rowhammer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rowhammer	[15:17]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu nyoozpaper says austerity	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	so basically "more welfare" ?	[15:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: did intel ever mention rowhammer ?	[15:17]
nubbins`	nubbins says latent anger from widespread protests couple years ago	[15:17]
asciilifeform	(your intel not the other intel)	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well yes. however!	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	it'd depend a lot on what you use it for.	[15:18]
asciilifeform	see, when i use memory, and put bits in, i expect to get them out later.	[15:18]
asciilifeform	unflipped.	[15:18]
asciilifeform	this is non-negotiable in my mind.	[15:18]
mircea_popescu	ok, let me model it.	[15:18]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu students were protesting funding cuts. in a couple of the photos, you can see police wearing stickers protesting... pension cuts.	[15:19]
asciilifeform	i don't even see 'rowhammer' as a security item, as such. just an indicator of 'this system is built on snot and bubblegum'	[15:19]
nubbins`	as they discharge tear gas canisters point-blank into faces :0	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	case 1 : you have slow memory, 64 gb of. you need 5 gb. case 2 : you have fast leaky memory, 32gb of. you still need 5gb, but use 15 for redundancy.	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	moreover, there are fixes for the particular effect, buy rowhammer proof sticks.	[15:19]
asciilifeform	ecc ?	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	for instance.	[15:20]
asciilifeform	need ecc ram controller then	[15:20]
asciilifeform	and i actually don't know of any system-on-chip that includes one	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	which was my point.	[15:20]
asciilifeform	this bodes ill for use of off-the-shelf si.	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	either that or time will resolve.	[15:21]
asciilifeform	cost pressure is squarely in opposite direction.	[15:21]
asciilifeform	so it may be a 'if not you then who' situation.	[15:21]
mats	im under the impression that ecc doesn't mitigate the attack	[15:21]
asciilifeform	mats: it is only an attack vector if you allow enemy means to hammer	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	mats these aren't really intended to be multiuser systems.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	ecc is more general "leaky memory" thing.	[15:22]
asciilifeform	by executing code on your machine, or by knowing something about mapping of external world i/o to your ram	[15:22]
asciilifeform	i consider it a 'this thing is made of bubblegum because fuck you, you're consumer meat' vector	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	no alf. it's because fuck you, you want to spend fiddy bux.	[15:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: where do i spend 500 and get ecc systemonchip?	[15:23]
asciilifeform	nowhere	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	that's the problem there : hole in the middle.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	exactly like with wines.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	and that's a hole that's there for thermodynamic reasons too. nobody made it.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: see, if we're gedankenexperimenting about a mass-produced equivalent of 'pogo', then unreliable hardware can be rationalized, 'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (TM) - what's one flipped bit. if we're gedankening about a 'wallet' - whole other ball game	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	i don't imagine the wallet can ever be anything but pc.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	z80	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	of the most common, ordinary or typical kind.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	i actually don't much like the rf-loudness of pc	[15:25]
Chillum	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHsT97suU <-- due to cosmic rays you should always expect the possibility of a bit flipping at random in your memory	[15:25]
asciilifeform	esp. the '90s collectibles you and i are fond of	[15:25]
assbot	DEF CON 19 - Artem Dinaburg - Bit-squatting: DNS Hijacking Without Exploitation - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0Xyy3 )	[15:25]
asciilifeform	!s bitsquatting	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	no other consideration can beat the advantages of commonality i dun think.	[15:25]
assbot	8 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitsquatting	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	Chillum that's why he's such an error correction fanboi.	[15:26]
Chillum	I wonder if that would work on an address	[15:26]
asciilifeform	anyway there is a reason i don't work on wallets	[15:26]
Chillum	what if the error happens in your cpu or hard drive cache?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	we don't talk about that (tm)	[15:26]
asciilifeform	'skin in the game' problem	[15:26]
Chillum	lol,	[15:26]
mats	there's a checksum at the end of an address no?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	there is yes.	[15:26]
Chillum	yes, in theory it could change after it is checked though	[15:27]
Chillum	but I think that would invalidate the contract	[15:27]
asciilifeform	and a proper auditable and tandem-cpu'd 'wallet' would cost more than anyone is willing to pay.	[15:27]
Chillum	so I _think_ it is not an issue.	[15:27]
asciilifeform	anything less, i don't have any interest in signing my name on.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	"and if i find a ten foot tall transparent (not translucent!!!) woman, i might stick my penis into her	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	anything else... buzoff!"	[15:27]
nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. <<< exactly like everything. you'll mollify some rubes with "prosumer" but that's really just $50 with more chrome	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	ikr?	[15:28]
mats	after some reinvestigation, SECDED ECC is not good enough to stop row hammering, because it can cause many bit flips. Halvar, et al found up to 25 flipped bits	[15:28]
Chillum	wine can cost more than $50???	[15:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: let's put it this way. if i built a wallet, and put my x btc in it, no one would say 'this fella really means business'	[15:28]
asciilifeform	the folks with xxxxx will not be convinced.	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	Chillum yes.	[15:28]
asciilifeform	as they shouldn't be.	[15:29]
Chillum	a bottle that big would be hard to carry	[15:29]
Chillum	I guess it would be a box at that size	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	yes yes, we get it, very funny mr facetious joke	[15:29]
Chillum	lol	[15:29]
asciilifeform	mats: if you treat 'rowhammering' as a statistical phenomenon, instead of allowing the enemy to induce arbitrary memory access patterns on the machine, it is considerably easier to deal with.	[15:29]
Chillum	how did you know my nick name?	[15:30]
asciilifeform	'plug the correct end of a funnel.' (TM) (al schwartz)	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	Chillum i paid $100 for a bottle of knowledge.	[15:30]
*	assbot removes voice from Bagels7	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. << this is me trying to alter eulora database. because you really want a mmorpg server that segfaults when game designers futz with game data.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	WHO WROTE ALL THIS SOFTWARE OFMGWTFBBQ	[15:31]
nubbins`	bbq? in argentina? get out 8)	[15:31]
asciilifeform	it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. << mircea_popescu probably did not intend this double meaning, but it is EXACTLY like wines at this point. because the 5mn computer you can get today is not actually any but a cosmetic 'golden toilet' improvement over the 50.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	no, i intended it.	[15:32]
asciilifeform	i think there are some fascinating surprises waiting for buyers of surplus 'boeing', 'lockheed', etc.	[15:32]
asciilifeform	there -was- a time when 5mn meant that you get tandem, cosmicray-proof, etc.	[15:32]
asciilifeform	in fact,	[15:32]
chetty	mircea_popescu, to be fair it doesnt kill a running server, just keeps it from starting :P	[15:32]
asciilifeform	!s tandem nonstop	[15:32]
assbot	0 results for 'tandem nonstop' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tandem+nonstop	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2010/masini-bune-si-masini-de-lux/ << me bashing the "better car is a luxury car" notion in 2010.	[15:32]
assbot	Masini bune si masini de lux pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D10afm )	[15:32]
asciilifeform	;;google tandem nonstop	[15:33]
gribble	Tandem Computers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; NonStop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; HP Integrity NonStop Servers - HP Servers \| HP® Official Site:	[15:33]
mircea_popescu	chetty tru that.	[15:33]
asciilifeform	^ defunct co.	[15:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82423 @ 0.00027532 = 22.6927 BTC [-]	[15:33]
nubbins`	well ya know. luxury branded as such is precisely marketed towards the aspirational	[15:33]
asciilifeform	http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52540/tandem	[15:33]
nubbins`	actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ	[15:33]
assbot	Tandem Definition from PC Magazine Encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1D10oTE )	[15:33]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: 'luxury' isn't quite the concept i had in mind, but 'if this cpu flips a bit, kingdoms fall'	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` the key of the article being, that if there's a genuinely "Better" anything, it will be in the mass market item, because the savings there are major. nobody is foregoing putting a GOOD something in an item that gets baked > 100mn units.	[15:34]
asciilifeform	nukexury	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, if there's some dubious / experimental stuff, it gets put into the luxury item	[15:34]
Chillum	store crucial info in a 5 way parity strip	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	because car makers, like any software designers, are more than willing to externalise their costs	[15:34]
nubbins`	if this cpu flips a bit, burial at space	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	exactly along the lines described in "you're the kid not good enough to sling dope"	[15:35]
Chillum	stripe that is	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	ie, let our rich customers pay for our automotive research.	[15:35]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: see how this is a somewhat different market from 'mercedes'	[15:35]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu a good example of this is when the nintendo wii came out, and researchers the world over started buying wiimotes for their labs	[15:35]
nubbins`	3-axis gyro and accelerometers for $40	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ << this is really just a more benign and socially acceptable restatement of alf's meta-nsa thesis.	[15:35]
nubbins`	in a nice case too!	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[15:36]
asciilifeform	Chillum: reliable computing is somewhat more than parity calculations. ('voting' protocols, heterogeneous cpus calculating same problem, etc)	[15:36]
asciilifeform	anyone have tlp's rolex article handy ?	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	"heterogenous cpus calculating same problem" seems to me like you maybe had too much of the good stuff.	[15:36]
asciilifeform	(re: 'actual luxury has no ads')	[15:36]
Chillum	valid point, no amount of checking will solve a race condition	[15:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this was actually done	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	for what ?	[15:37]
asciilifeform	it is the only pill (other than 'fits in head') against boojums like intel's fpu bug	[15:37]
funkenstein_	does that describe bitcoin?	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	(i save the "but provably ?" for later)	[15:37]
asciilifeform	for what << for spacecraft, but don't have the needed citation handy	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ yes, with the bonus that forks.	[15:37]
Chillum	you can induce random failures in RAM for testing purposes with a hair dryer	[15:38]
Chillum	not good for the ram though	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	isn't this more 90s sort of stuff ?	[15:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the interesting thing is that if you confine the proof requirements to the consensus circuit, problem becomes actually manageable	[15:38]
nubbins`	big boys use a b&d heat gun	[15:38]
asciilifeform	because it isn't turing-complete	[15:38]
Chillum	best case scenario would be to fail safe, instead of fail silently	[15:38]
asciilifeform	Chillum: sometimes you want 'fail deadly'	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	"this is your new computer ms. robinson. and to repeat our warning : if you misspell it will whip you."	[15:39]
nubbins`	asciilifeform mircea_popescu why not just invent yourselves a friedcat and scoop up some investor fundz, sell a line of USB BITCOIN ERUPTORZ for 2btc each	[15:39]
nubbins`	;p	[15:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0l, the proverbial nazi method of teaching typing	[15:40]
Chillum	kickstarter	[15:40]
asciilifeform	electric (as in chair) typewriter	[15:40]
nubbins`	(speaking of externalizing costs)	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` wait wut ?	[15:40]
nubbins`	ha	[15:40]
Chillum	any project can benefit from OPM	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know, most people that survived a halon dump also heard the pov that "the machine just does that when it's displeased"	[15:40]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu asicminer made thousands of btc selling those useless keychain miners	[15:41]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: interesting observation is that the 'friedcat algorithm' only worked because miners can be let secretly to sit and mine, amplifying the proceeds of that scam	[15:41]
nubbins`	nod	[15:41]
nubbins`	this is true	[15:41]
nubbins`	first out of the gate, they probably still haven't counted all their money	[15:41]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: if they merely collected and sat on the money, there could have been no question of covering fab costs	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	well the reason they haven't is that wallet code is so damned bad.	[15:42]
asciilifeform	and especially not if they had used actual ab initio fab instead of 'hard copy fpga'	[15:42]
asciilifeform	(which is 1/10th to 1/5th the cost of the Real Deal)	[15:42]
asciilifeform	speaking of 'luxury' and orcish misunderstanding of the concept, iirc ru has the world's only aston martin showroom where -folks actually buy and drive off-	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	this because russians know enough to not have it any other way.	[15:44]
asciilifeform	to explain, such a machine in the rest of the world is built custom - seat with the skin of favourite deceased pet jaguar, etc.	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform from the other pov, because in the rest of the world this machine is part of bezzleworld.	[15:45]
Chillum	They want a custom built auto, but they want it already made and waiting for them	[15:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: normally it is presented as 'poor ru schmucks haven't learned how to be correctly rich yet'	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	better than the volga!	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and there is truth to that, yes. but not just.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, why'd anyone care.	[15:46]
Chillum	they like Rolexes too	[15:46]
asciilifeform	they think 'rich' means they walk in and spend 10**4 times the money and walk out with consumer box, but same overall dynamic	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	well...	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	i made hotel reservations for you lot, right ?	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	clerk is "all the guarantee we'll want is a cc"	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	"i don't use cc, and this will be paid in cash"	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	ima have to cart bricks of cash to the hotel nao. and i will.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	because, poor ex-billionaire mp doesn't know how to be a ex-billionaire correctly, like whatever frail us schmuck.	[15:47]
*	asciilifeform thought only in usa was cash spat on this way	[15:47]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[15:48]
chetty	argies use almost all cash, hotels are for touristas	[15:48]
asciilifeform	Sh	[15:48]
asciilifeform	Ah	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	it's a halfway world, right ? i hope you survive the indignity :)	[15:49]
asciilifeform	l0l	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	it's not 100% us!	[15:49]
*	asciilifeform is accustomed to the chemically-pure gut-dissolving 100 percent u.s	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	how did the timisoara one look from that pov ?	[15:49]
chetty	thats a point, you guys might get chem withdrawl	[15:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it looked like valhalla	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	o rly ? then this should be ok.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	literally across the plaza from the casa rosada.	[15:50]
*	nubbins` recalls staying in Crowne Plaza Bogota and cutting up a particularly dense turd with a sterling silver butter knife so it would flush	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	suites, too.	[15:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00027604 = 5.7554 BTC [+]	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	!b 2	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha what!	[15:50]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0H0C6AW.txt )	[15:50]
nubbins`	srs!!!	[15:50]
nubbins`	this was after 2 weeks in the jungles and slumming around small towns	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	dude, try eating some greens sometime.	[15:51]
nubbins`	mi estomago	[15:51]
nubbins`	notfun.jpg tried cutting in half, wasn't enough, had to slice it like a fuckin pepperoni	[15:51]
nubbins`	:(	[15:51]
trinque	hahahaha	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	this is possibly the weirdest thing i ever heard	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	did you put it on a plate ?	[15:52]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: there are actually locales in usa with pipes so narrow, that this is sop	[15:52]
nubbins`	ahahahah	[15:52]
asciilifeform	except that folks buy specially constructed toilets	[15:52]
asciilifeform	with something like a food processor built in to the pedestal	[15:52]
trinque	or you just pinch it every couple links	[15:52]
*	asciilifeform is not, unfortunately, making this up	[15:52]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu cut right in the bowl, natch	[15:52]
trinque	old buildings, well known not to drop the whole load at once	[15:52]
nubbins`	would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	who does this	[15:52]
nubbins`	and the peril scared us	[15:52]
nubbins`	afaik only me :/	[15:53]
Chillum	my toilet works	[15:53]
funkenstein_	lol nubbins	[15:53]
nubbins`	for now.	[15:53]
funkenstein_	speaking of bogota you see the pics of hail last week?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	i hate to break it to you nubbins` but this is really not normal.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	it may be how scatophilia begins.	[15:53]
nubbins`	DUDE I HAD NO OTHER CHOICE	[15:53]
nubbins`	I LET IT SIT FOR THREE HOURS TO SOFTEN	[15:53]
Chillum	that is what all scatophiles say	[15:53]
trinque	could've just left it and never looked back	[15:53]
trinque	tragedy of the commons	[15:53]
nubbins`	trinque <+nubbins`> would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump	[15:54]
nubbins`	my shame prevented me from asking for a new room	[15:54]
trinque	just a bigger tragedy then	[15:54]
Chillum	cutting it up when you have it is not that strange. Telling people about it though...	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	"hello concierge ? yes i need a new room please, this one is full of shit."	[15:54]
trinque	I worked in a hotel once; this would not be the worst thing to encounter	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	Chillum no the telling is normal.	[15:54]
trinque	at least the turd was in the can, not the bed	[15:54]
nubbins`	heh	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	amateur shit processing however...	[15:55]
nubbins`	anyways $100usd buys you a very large amount of nice hotel room in .co	[15:55]
asciilifeform	;;google macerator	[15:55]
gribble	Macerator - Industrial-Craft-Wiki: ; Macerator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Bathroom Anywhere Macerator Pump 120 Volt-38724.0 - Home Depot:	[15:55]
trinque	asciilifeform: final nub question; where's the list of these crossdev targets?	[15:55]
trinque	^ is a lie	[15:55]
asciilifeform	gcc 'configure' --help, iirc	[15:56]
trinque	ty	[15:56]
asciilifeform	http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bathroom-Anywhere-Macerator-Pump-120-Volt-38724-0/202217665 << l0l!! >> 'Ideal for basements, man-caves,...'	[15:57]
assbot	Bathroom Anywhere Macerator Pump 120 Volt-38724.0 - The Home Depot ... ( http://bit.ly/1D18U5b )	[15:57]
nubbins`	buildroot make is still bailing out while trying to compile -- no joke -- tar 1.28	[15:57]
nubbins`	this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare	[15:57]
nubbins`	and linux, bsd, osx implementations are all almost wholly incompatible	[15:58]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: please consider using a real computer, or if you must crapple - a vm	[15:58]
nubbins`	asciilifeform this was kinda the final straw	[15:58]
nubbins`	individual packages, i don't mind kludging	[15:58]
nubbins`	but i have no interest in dismantling buildroot from the top down	[15:59]
nubbins`	will steal wifey's machine this eve	[15:59]
asciilifeform	http://www.kandbnews.co.uk/bathrooms/just-out/saniflointroduceslim-linemaceratorpump#.VRb5NnW9_fs	[16:00]
assbot	Kitchen & Bathroom News \| Saniflo introduces slim-line macerator pump ... ( http://bit.ly/1D19QX7 )	[16:00]
asciilifeform	^ l0l re: pin-up in this ad	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare << it's reallty very very bad.	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	and for that matter, the parallels between usg-poettering "working on" linux and usgavin "working on" bitcoin are utterly striking.	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	here's this monstruous pile of serious problems in dire need of a solution, and here's the transgenderqueer crowd fixing pronouns and breaking the scant few things that almost work.	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	and no, i don't propose that there's an actual office somewhere directing this braindamage.	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	it's just that moot subcultures at the end of their rope spew singlemindedness as a natural fermentation product.	[16:03]
asciilifeform	not that there is no office where hearn et al are given winks, nudges, and stacks of benjies	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	i doubt poettering for isntance as much as saw a whiff of a whiff of that.	[16:04]
asciilifeform	(does poettering have a 'day job' ? and, if so, what is it?)	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	he has a boss in rh who has a boss who has an orlov who has an etc. six strings long, the flea circus.	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	it's being a bitch for dubious usg contractors.	[16:04]
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mircea_popescu	!up jdjfjfucuysbebej	[16:04]
-assbot-	You voiced jdjfjfucuysbebej for 30 minutes.	[16:04]
*	assbot gives voice to jdjfjfucuysbebej	[16:04]
jdjfjfucuysbebej	Hi	[16:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146808 @ 0.00027532 = 40.4192 BTC [-] {2}	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	ello.	[16:04]
jdjfjfucuysbebej	Why do you need to be upped?	[16:05]
asciilifeform	meowmix ?	[16:05]
danielpbarron	!up Bagels7	[16:05]
*	assbot gives voice to Bagels7	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	i don't need to be upped. you do.	[16:05]
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jdjfjfucuysbebej	Why	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	so this difference between us is enforced in a way you can't ignore.	[16:05]
jdjfjfucuysbebej	Yeah	[16:05]
danielpbarron	so "uppity"	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	lol	[16:06]
nubbins`	!down jdjfjfucuysbebej	[16:06]
*	assbot removes voice from jdjfjfucuysbebej	[16:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64150 @ 0.00027806 = 17.8375 BTC [+] {3}	[16:06]
nubbins`	dat androirc@	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	well at least he got his isp to give him a new ip.	[16:06]
nubbins`	yeah!	[16:06]
nubbins`	it's like 1.5x as much ip as last time	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	which - the cunts - made an ipv6. such service.	[16:07]
asciilifeform	seems like he's on a pNohe	[16:07]
asciilifeform	hence new ip	[16:07]
nubbins`	ah!	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	any good gf pov ?	[16:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00028032 = 13.3292 BTC [+] {2}	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	holy shit 28 ? MEAT TONIGHT!	[16:08]
trinque	for the other crossdev newbs, gcc -dumpmachine will (I think?) give what must be plonked into crossdev --target	[16:08]
mats	it rises	[16:09]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so random ssd question for you. aren't the reads destructive just as writes are ? how come not if not ?	[16:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: read measures charge. high-impedance circuit, so 'bubble' isn't moving	[16:10]
asciilifeform	hence no appreciable ion migration.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	but!	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	these cells are tiny.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck do they measure charge without altering it	[16:11]
asciilifeform	not -that- tiny.	[16:11]
Chillum	blocks are rewritten on a schedule in most firmware I think	[16:11]
Chillum	part of wear levelling	[16:11]
asciilifeform	Chillum: that wasn't the question	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	Chillum that was more of a "we want this hardware to last 25 months exactly" marketin thing i thought	[16:12]
Chillum	I guess I misunderstood	[16:12]
nubbins`	dat NTFS write scheme	[16:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77189 @ 0.00027266 = 21.0464 BTC [-] {4}	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how tiny ? afaik the controlling factor limitng memory atm is that they can't make it thinner than it is because single layer silicone and tunelling becoems a thing.	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	well if that's the case...	[16:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'read-disturb' is a thing, yes	[16:13]
asciilifeform	but, iirc, small.	[16:13]
asciilifeform	but not zero.	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	how much of a thing ? 100 reads ? 1mn reads ?	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	what's the per-read LD50 of memory i wish to know!	[16:13]
nubbins`	you want that in mg/kg?	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	lol	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	nah, count per capita.	[16:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47620 @ 0.00028053 = 13.3588 BTC [+]	[16:14]
nubbins`	nb	[16:15]
asciilifeform	afaik there is no published data.	[16:15]
asciilifeform	other than 'it exists' and 'commercial nand flash controllers compensate in proprietary ways' (l0l yes)	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	interesting huh.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	anyways.	[16:16]
asciilifeform	my understanding is that 'read-disturb' is largely temporary.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	why would it be temporary ?	[16:17]
nubbins`	bbl food!	[16:17]
asciilifeform	because results from residual charge from neighbouring signal to select the row/col. to read.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	rather than a 'reflashing' of a bit.	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	then this isn't really the effect i was talking about	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	but a sort of low level rowhammer	[16:17]
Chillum	'commercial nand flash controllers compensate in proprietary ways' = rewriting the block every X reads	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[16:18]
asciilifeform	-consecutive- reads	[16:18]
asciilifeform	thinkaboutit	[16:18]
asciilifeform	or you'd need a whole other array to count.	[16:18]
asciilifeform	turtles for the turtles to stand on.	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	i think they count by row	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	and reflash by row	[16:18]
Chillum	plus retiring nands and using unused ones after X accesses. One of the ways they hide decay	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	i know they write per row in any case.	[16:18]
asciilifeform	http://www.yaffs.net/documents/yaffs-nand-flash-failure-mitigation#Read_disturb	[16:19]
assbot	Yaffs NAND flash failure mitigation \| Yaffs ... ( http://bit.ly/1D1gEnv )	[16:19]
asciilifeform	^ small likbez	[16:19]
Chillum	not sure about the exact granularity	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	in any case about 1/4 of the total capacity of a ssd is not actually shown the os.	[16:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: in recent devices, even more.	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	there's ample room in there to count by row, and keep reserves etc.	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	right.	[16:20]
Chillum	nice link	[16:21]
asciilifeform	'hammers' were always somewhat interesting. who here remembers 'walking drum disks' ?	[16:21]
Chillum	from the wall?	[16:22]
asciilifeform	also a kind of 'software hammer' where unbalanced rotor effect was induced	[16:22]
asciilifeform	those things could easily walk through a cement wall	[16:22]
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mircea_popescu	anyone know a fast and painless way to make subtitles for a youtube ?	[16:28]
funkenstein_	i was asking a database guy about log structured databases like the blockchain	[16:31]
funkenstein_	he told me to read about ssd filesystems	[16:31]
funkenstein_	and no, sorry, i don't	[16:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50883 @ 0.00027476 = 13.9806 BTC [-]	[16:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00028053 = 9.51 BTC [+]	[16:59]
gribble	Closed Captioning Services - Home Page: ; Closed Captioning Service \| Subtitles: ; Captionlabs: Closed Caption Service, Closed Captioning Services:	[17:08]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00028065 = 1.7962 BTC [+] {2}	[17:09]
trinque	got muh cross compiler cross compilin'	[17:11]
*	trinque gets food, then will try to build the foundation's bitcoind	[17:11]
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trinque	how bout some sacrificial cats?	[17:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00028066 = 19.4497 BTC [+]	[17:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00028066 = 27.7573 BTC [+]	[17:22]
trinque	changing the arch in auto.sh didn't seem to work	[17:25]
trinque	saw it using system g++ anyway, failed to link the result	[17:25]
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trinque	found the relevant patches	[17:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24632 @ 0.00028066 = 6.9132 BTC [+]	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	jurov hm ?	[17:34]
mod6	trinque: what OS/arch ?	[17:35]
trinque	mod6: trying to cross compile for the pogo	[17:35]
mod6	oh, ok.	[17:35]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fansub << yes!	[17:43]
asciilifeform	http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/info/moia-masterskaia	[17:43]
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assbot	Моя мастерская with subtitles \| Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8LfPk )	[17:43]
asciilifeform	^ i used it to fansub a youtube	[17:43]
asciilifeform	deadly simple	[17:43]
asciilifeform	(won't overlay on youtube unless you're the one who posted the film, naturally)	[17:44]
asciilifeform	i searched far and wide for a fansub tool, ended up with that	[17:44]
asciilifeform	http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/en/915426 << correct link for sub	[17:45]
assbot	Моя мастерская with subtitles \| Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhAhJC )	[17:45]
asciilifeform	trinque: the absolute best way to do crossdev, imho, is 1) have a gentoo box and use 'crossdev' emerge tool which magically builds the toolchains correctly 2) wait for buildroot	[17:48]
trinque	asciilifeform: I have crossdev and built a simple main.c which ran on the pogo	[17:49]
asciilifeform	(or don't wait, if you download the stock version and build the 'sheevaplug' thing - it gives almost usable kernel)	[17:49]
asciilifeform	(re: that film: no, i am not personally acquainted with the fella who made the film.)	[17:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00028066 = 7.0867 BTC [+]	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	trinque: a hack that i've seen to work is building for arch in a docker container	[17:53]
ben_vulpes	ymmv	[17:53]
ben_vulpes	but that's how bizpartner compiles his flugenputer	[17:54]
trinque	ben_vulpes: really just waiting for someone to say "auto.sh doesn't do that yet" so I am aware of whether I'm wasting time fixing it :D	[17:54]
trinque	seems mad about the arch being passed to the openssl compile, which could either be me not having the right environment encantations or who knows	[17:54]
*	trinque doesn't mind continuing to hump the football	[17:55]
ben_vulpes	odd image	[17:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu et al.: instructive re: earlier thread today >> https://octopart.com/search?q=sata&filter%5Bfields%5D%5Bcategory_uids%5D%5B%5D=c8d405def9791313&start=0&filter%5Bfields%5D%5Bavg_avail%5D%5B%5D=%5B1%20TO%20*%5D	[17:55]
assbot	sata - Octopart	[17:55]
asciilifeform	^ note the prices.	[17:55]
asciilifeform	summary: the cheapest commercially-advertised microcontroller with integrates sata costs more than 'pogo' even in qty. 10,000+.	[17:58]
asciilifeform	-the chip alone.-	[17:58]
asciilifeform	not even speaking of board, ram, ethernet magnetics & connector, ..., ....	[17:58]
asciilifeform	commercially, that is, in the public english-speaking world.	[17:58]
asciilifeform	i am very much hoping to be proven mistaken about this!	[17:59]
asciilifeform	(and no, didn't only check the meta-search engine 'octopart' but every single one of my favourite suppliers.)	[18:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00028071 = 6.4563 BTC [+] {2}	[18:03]
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nubbins`	asciilifeform re: octopart: lel, think we can run turdel on an Atmel Butterfly? :S	[18:10]
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nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> anyone know a fast and painless way to make subtitles for a youtube ? <<< http://captiongenerator.com/	[18:11]
assbot	Add Captions to Any Youtube Video - Caption Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhFMbo )	[18:11]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu also for top lel: http://captiongenerator.com/29786/woodcollector-hitler	[18:12]
assbot	woodcollector hitler - Caption Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhFNMq )	[18:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45350 @ 0.00028083 = 12.7356 BTC [+]	[18:12]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: where's the sata and Gb ethernet ?	[18:15]
nubbins`	dude it has a piezo speaker and a pin for your lapel, what more do you want?	[18:15]
nubbins`	anyway long+short we'll never get a deal like the pogos until, well, the next pogo-like thing comes along	[18:16]
nubbins`	i doubt pogo paid less than $18/unit.	[18:17]
nubbins`	(for those wondering how $18 can turn profit for amazon sellers -- the current sellers are likely the ones who scooped up pallet loads at $7ea in prior years)	[18:18]
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jurov	http://www.cnet.com/news/iron-sky-2-nazis-lizard-people-and-hitler-on-a-t-rex/ googled too lizard hitler and... we gotta use this pic sometime	[18:23]
assbot	'Iron Sky 2': Nazis, lizard people and Hitler on a T.rex - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1NprR4k )	[18:23]
jurov	what about a contest - best memepic made out of it?	[18:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00028083 = 16.3162 BTC [+]	[18:28]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform a danke	[18:34]
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nubbins`	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromecast#Hardware	[18:35]
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assbot	Chromecast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Npua7A )	[18:35]
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nubbins`	MFW an avr butterfly costs more than a SATA pogo	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nice.	[18:36]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform in fairness, there's 0 price sensitivity from 1 to 10k. pleads against octosite being too useful.	[18:37]
nubbins`	almost none of the items give price breaks beyond 100	[18:38]
nubbins`	some, not even then	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	yeah well...	[18:38]
d9b4bef9	danielpbarron davout deedbot- diametric dignork donpillou dooglus dub	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	!up d9b4bef9	[18:38]
-assbot-	You voiced d9b4bef9 for 30 minutes.	[18:38]
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nubbins`	hi d9b4bef9	[18:39]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25050 @ 0.0002787 = 6.9814 BTC [-] {2}	[18:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220370 @ 0.00027476 = 60.5489 BTC [-]	[18:50]
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jurov	https://medium.com/@octskyward/replace-by-fee-43edd9a1dd6d power rangers fight over messing up zeroconf	[18:52]
assbot	Replace by fee — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpxEa1 )	[18:53]
nubbins`	heh	[18:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00027191 = 7.0425 BTC [-]	[18:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00027191 = 2.5967 BTC [-]	[18:57]
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mircea_popescu	" Blowing up 0-confirm transactions is vandalism."	[19:00]
*	assbot gives voice to mod6	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation.	[19:00]
nubbins`	anything to be gained by enabling mmu support in buildroot? spidey sense says no	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	i can't see what it'd help	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	"It’s absolutely essential for buying stuff in shops. A currency that can’t be used to buy a newspaper on the street is not going to be seen as a real currency by the man on that street." << again and again with this nonsense. what the "man on the street" sees or doesn't see, accepts or hates, whatever the fuck is entirely unimportant.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	not that i think the replace by fee idea is worth implementing, but the reasons given are lulzy.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	for the record : a node can do this currently, if a node feels like doing this currently. whether we like it or not is immaterial, really. some miners tried it historically, but it's generally speaking dumb an' so it never caught on.	[19:04]
nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation. <<< hurtyfeelism	[19:04]
nubbins`	man on the street using special drawing rights to purchase a coffee	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	myeah. it's just... utterly confused.	[19:04]
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mircea_popescu	sort-of like seeing footballers trying to reason about medicine. that's what this entire "buncha derpy kids + some usg moles debating bitcoin" looks to me : like a bunch of nfl picks got parachuted in senegal, and are now trying to get themselves cured of tb	[19:05]
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mircea_popescu	"maybe if we hit it really hard with THIS rock!"	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	"dude you threw the rock like a girl"	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	"nu uh urmom!"	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	etc etc	[19:06]
nubbins`	oh wow, osx actually shipped with bsd-tar AND gnu-tar until 10.9	[19:06]
jurov	re: reliable computers vs. luxury cars...apples and oranges	[19:09]
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mircea_popescu	industrial products are industrial products. all of them. without exception. exactly the same thing.	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	and, for that matter, the very people in the more "advanced" economies are by now exactly industrial products.	[19:10]
jurov	i haven't heard about "luxury car" with doubled or triply-redundant engine and other stuff	[19:10]
jurov	to achieve 99.9999 whatever uptime	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	the exact way reliability is implemented depends more on the context neh ?	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	you ever heard of car that won't start ?	[19:11]
jurov	yes. and luxury ones, too	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	i haven't.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	(luxury i mean)	[19:11]
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jurov	better comparison would be a car that can go for years without service break	[19:12]
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jurov	or serviceable during movement	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	ok	[19:13]
jurov	hence, apples and oranges	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	lol @hearn : "So: money is not a mathematical construct. It’s a social construct. The fact that Bitcoin uses some fairly basic maths to coordinate social decisions over the internet doesn’t change that."	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	apparently the eater-of-worlds interepretation of bitcoin got some pretty high level people involved.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	yes derps, "money" as in usd is a social construct. money as in bitcoin is not a social construct.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	this is why we're here. cause the superset of your shit is the way to clean your shit out of this world.	[19:14]
nubbins`	money is not a mathematical construct?	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	eh, he has a skeleton of good points, on which he plants the usual bs.	[19:15]
*	nubbins` invites hearn to use money without numbers	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	kinda par for the course for assets rly.	[19:15]
nubbins`	what next, statistics is not a mathematical construct?	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	notably, he's on medium.	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` nothing's anything and if you have a business obama made that business	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	check your privilege.	[19:16]
nubbins`	D:	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	but anyway : usd is currently trying to use money without numbers.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	which ties in quite hysterically into the romanian expression "Fara numar"	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	which is very instructive, because it's gypsytalk for "a lot of money". which is the problem of being a gypsy : very good social, very poor maths, failure to thrive in the world.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	https://www.google.com/search?q=fara+numar&complete=0&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&sa=X < illustrations.	[19:19]
assbot	fara numar - Google zoeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpCMv4 )	[19:19]
TomServo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1077008 << I'm curious to flesh this out a bit.	[19:20]
assbot	Logged on 28-03-2015 16:44:11; mircea_popescu: Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	TomServo you couldn't have missed it in the logs ? we want a bitcoin hosting corp.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	what rg was supposed to run before going nuts.	[19:20]
TomServo	Say a guy had a nearly a racks worth a few generations old HP gear his workplace was going to get rid of.. and his own private stash of similiar era network gear.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	so start a dc.	[19:21]
TomServo	And could be inspired to seek out colo pricing.. would this be of interest as a starting point?	[19:21]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu lel http://i.imgur.com/NV71EV0.png	[19:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NpDf0b )	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	very	[19:22]
nubbins`	(for bonus lel, "related pictures" #2)	[19:22]
nubbins`	algorithm: "oh, here's a dude blowing a big hair-icicle. this works."	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` in romanian, it's a thing.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	(literally that means "unbounded talent", but in that context talent would strictly denote a whore's talent, and it is only used ironically. so it's an apt caption for a teenager derping with a faux cock)	[19:25]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: I'd imagine being usian based would be a problem, tho?	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	TomServo lock the cages, superglue the locks lol	[19:25]
nubbins`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz3lJX92ly0	[19:26]
assbot	Leonard Cohen - Dress Rehearsal Rag - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpE5tS )	[19:26]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: heh, I'm for it! I'm honestly trying consider it here... though I feel I might need a financial attorney to sort everything out given my locale.	[19:26]
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nubbins`	if i forgot english i'd learn it again for cohen	[19:26]
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mircea_popescu	TomServo colocation is a service, ship them to fucking malysia if you care.	[19:27]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: It's an option I suppose.. but I was thinking my hands of the hardware would be a big piece of what I'm selling.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	alrighty, that also.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	i'm just saying, the need is there. as long as you clearly advertise what exactly you do and then stick to it exactly... it'll have custom.	[19:28]
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TomServo	Well I'll ponder it some more and welcome any further feedback on the aging infrastructure being proposed and it's utility.	[19:30]
TomServo	its* :)	[19:30]
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mircea_popescu	the one serious problem for you, or anyone else trying to do business in the us (say, cisco) is that sooner or later your government will try and rape you with those "secret legal proceedings" bs.	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	at that point, you'll be in the lavamail seat. either you become complicit with the criminals, or else you'll be prosecuted by the criminals.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	(either side's claim as to the criminality of the other being unresolvable, since no rule of law, since "secret proceedings")	[19:33]
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TomServo	Right, so doing this in the US is simply untenable - no?	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	but i guess you could do something like the traditional "We have received no unmentionable paperwork from local band of criminals" monthly announcement	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	since you can't be legally compelled to actually lie.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	it'll be a tough walk tho.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	well, it's tenable if you're looking to pick a fight.	[19:36]
TomServo	This being the 'warrant canary'?	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	yea	[19:37]
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trinque	http://justsecurity.org/20850/government-slight-concession-twitters-warrant-canary-suit/	[19:39]
assbot	US Government Makes Slight Concession in Twitter’s Warrant-Canary Suit \| Just Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpGODx )	[19:39]
jurov	TomServo: I want to do hosting too, but wanted a partner	[19:40]
trinque	"the government concedes that companies who have never received any kind of national-security request from the government and who are not bound by other nondisclosure provisions vis-à-vis the government may lawfully publish warrant canaries publicizing that fact."	[19:40]
trinque	so, better start with one, it seems	[19:40]
trinque	other relevant info worth reading there	[19:41]
TomServo	jurov: Thoughts on the discussion so far?	[19:41]
jurov	physical hw location does not matter to me, can be the best korea or whatever	[19:42]
jurov	and if you did not have the offer, i can shop around here	[19:43]
jurov	or perhaps having both us and eu right from the start would be best	[19:43]
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mircea_popescu	ah yes, the famous rsync one http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt	[19:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xo959M )	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	but they use a shitty signature shceme and wtf, reference bitcoin block hashes already	[19:44]
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mircea_popescu	jurov eu understood as slovakia is particularly useful.	[19:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49437 @ 0.00027288 = 13.4904 BTC [+] {2}	[19:45]
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jurov	yes, it may end up in czech rep or so	[19:46]
trinque	asciilifeform: any opposition to me adding a parameter for a few predefined architectures in auto.sh?	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	the czechs should totally go back to kingdom	[19:47]
trinque	I've got it cross-compiling nicely from a gentoo host, currently munching through boost	[19:47]
mats	i wouldn't mind lending a hand if you're looking for help	[19:48]
trinque	ben_vulpes: "monkey humping a football" << couldn't be a more apt description of the process I used to get crossdev working with auto.sh	[19:48]
funkenstein_	i have used bitcoincloud.eu with no trouble yet	[19:48]
TomServo	jurov: what do you mean 'not have the offer'?	[19:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101500 @ 0.00027566 = 27.9795 BTC [+] {2}	[19:48]
jurov	you consider hosting because you got the gear offered, no?	[19:49]
TomServo	I'm interested in the prospect in general.. the hardware availablity just being a perk. I was curious if there was legitmate interest in this hardware specifically.	[19:50]
jurov	if it does not have features like iLO remote pwnkit, that is considered plus here	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	lol	[19:51]
TomServo	heh of course.. unfortunately.. these have it.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	b-a sourced host, this should be interesting.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	jurov "HP iLO - The preferred IT administrator in every ProLiant server" you fudster you.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	"HP iLO functions out-of-the-box without additional software installation regardless of the servers' state of operation giving you complete access to your server from any location via a web browser or the iLO Mobile App"	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	i hope it has ssl. you know, for the api.	[19:54]
jurov	overall, being able to learn on cheap older stuff is nice to have	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	TomServo incidentally, they being your machines, you can take a hammer at parts.	[19:54]
jurov	imo	[19:54]
TomServo	I agree.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	"what's the most important tool in the arsenal of the security consultant ?"	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	"a #3 chisel"	[19:55]
*	trinque wonders what the fuck python headers have to do with boost	[19:56]
jurov	do you have USE=python set?	[19:57]
jurov	it may be the default	[19:57]
trinque	jurov: just running the auto.sh	[19:57]
trinque	probably lots to be snipped out of the boost config	[19:57]
trinque	probably better to snip boost	[19:57]
jurov	this was discussed	[19:58]
trinque	I am well aware, just marveling at what I see in my terminal	[19:58]
jurov	and conclusion was, that any bigger c++ project needs it (or poor reimplementation of it)	[19:58]
jurov	kk	[19:58]
*	marteen (~martin@190.113.140.30) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:59]
*	assbot gives voice to marteen	[19:59]
jurov	so, TomServo?	[20:00]
TomServo	jurov: I'ma thinking.	[20:01]
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*	ascii_modem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[20:04]
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Adlai	aegis agorecki Apocalyptic artifexd Asa9t1 ascii_modem asciilifeform Asenath assbot Azelphur	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_modem	[20:06]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_modem for 30 minutes.	[20:06]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_modem	[20:06]
ascii_modem	nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense	[20:07]
ascii_modem	*is	[20:07]
ascii_modem	in machine shop, ugh, cold fingers	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	why would you want to do software mmu ?	[20:09]
ascii_modem	0 price sensitivity below 10k << false for all common parts. try it	[20:09]
ascii_modem	software mmu?!	[20:09]
ascii_modem	lol	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	what is it doing in linux then ?	[20:10]
*	mircea_popescu confused	[20:10]
ascii_modem	support -for- mmu	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	tripletake	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	oohhh.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	thanks god someone reads these logs o.O	[20:11]
ascii_modem	but yeah for uniquely impoverished archs there is mmuless linux	[20:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54376 @ 0.00027611 = 15.0138 BTC [+] {2}	[20:11]
*	odyjm (~tradeX@modemcable102.136-177-173.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	!up odyjm	[20:14]
-assbot-	You voiced odyjm for 30 minutes.	[20:14]
*	assbot gives voice to odyjm	[20:14]
ascii_modem	canary << mega-lol, apple killed their canary. who noticed, who remembers now ?	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	me.	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	i noticed.	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	everyone i work with knows.	[20:15]
ascii_modem	and me aha	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	what, you think i don't like apple because of its hairdo ?	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	weird hairdos come with good bjs	[20:16]
ben_vulpes	(sometimes)	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	http://41.media.tumblr.com/e11f97d0aed79e6d22c67e293d63ecc3/tumblr_mx97scN9DM1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg << country bumpkin reaches california. first day, burn the tits. next day, burn the butt.	[20:16]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xJz8Zh )	[20:16]
ben_vulpes	but this weird hairdo has the clap	[20:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51107 @ 0.00027137 = 13.8689 BTC [-] {3}	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	"don't like" != "weird" mr.	[20:17]
*	ascii_modem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:18]
TomServo	ascii_modem \| canary << was hoping this would be mentioned. So what is the value? zilch?	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	pre dropping or post ?	[20:19]
TomServo	the apple case specifically	[20:19]
ben_vulpes	the honor of a few at the top. maybe. if they get out and come here.	[20:20]
ben_vulpes	for a btc host, not a bad idea. low cost.	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile in a mexican jail, http://41.media.tumblr.com/aba956207a733186c3f6b54d0b45de34/tumblr_mjeeokHoua1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg	[20:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/19c4490 )	[20:21]
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jurov	http://fortune.com/2015/03/10/american-millennials-are-among-the-worlds-least-skilled/ hue	[20:28]
assbot	American Millennials are among the world's least skilled - Fortune ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJA8gc )	[20:28]
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*	asciilifeform set up enormous power saw, other things, back now	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	not surprising.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	but hey, at least they challenged patriarchy.	[20:35]
asciilifeform	mexican jail << possibly favourite of all the pics i've seen so far here	[20:35]
ben_vulpes	* asciilifeform set up enormous power saw << pics?	[20:35]
asciilifeform	it's a 'hitachi'	[20:36]
asciilifeform	did not occur to me to take a photo	[20:36]
asciilifeform	everyone already has this saw.	[20:36]
ben_vulpes	chop?	[20:36]
asciilifeform	(recced by diametric)	[20:36]
jurov	my mom was using "husqvarna"	[20:36]
jurov	sewing machine.	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	When the results were analyzed by age group and nationality, ETS got a shock. It turns out, says a new report, that Millennials in the U.S. fall short when it comes to the skills employers want most: literacy (including the ability to follow simple instructions), practical math, and — hold on to your hat — a category called “problem-solving in technology-rich environments.”	[20:36]
asciilifeform	http://www.hitachipowertools.com/images/product/saws/miter_saws/C10FSH.jpg << that one	[20:36]
ben_vulpes	really?	[20:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xJAPpO )	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	"Not only do Gen Y Americans lag far behind their overseas peers by every measure, but they even score lower than other age groups of Americans."	[20:37]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: coulda sworm you said "enormous"...	[20:37]
asciilifeform	enormous compared to the tiny jeweler's saw i'm accustomed to	[20:37]
ben_vulpes	ah	[20:37]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes probably imagined meat processing plant chopper for whole pigs / corpses	[20:37]
funkenstein_	ETS got a shock <-- the funny bit	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	Altogether, the top U.S. Gen Yers, in the 90th percentile, “scored lower than their counterparts in 15 countries,” the report notes, “and only scored higher than their peers in Spain.”	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	pretty much exactly what one expected.	[20:38]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i was honestly wondering about its orientation and axes of articulation.	[20:38]
trinque	mircea_popescu: the simple instructions bit is as much mental illness as it is literacy	[20:38]
asciilifeform	^	[20:38]
trinque	and that is largely due to terrible upbringing and terrible diet through formative years	[20:38]
trinque	current generation and below is probably irreparably fucked	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	diet has possibly less to do with it than gayness.	[20:39]
trinque	dunno, does mountain dew cause gayness?	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	well... "gayness", the faux cultural homosexuality the us came up with to try and avoid facing the actual problem	[20:39]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway, human populations are not linear. the current twentysomething/late teens are completely discardable out of hand, like so much rag.	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	however, the next one will probably shine.	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	generations alternate.	[20:40]
ben_vulpes	actual problems to cut their teeth on.	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	in any case, it's for the nine year olds we're even building all this wot bitcoin etc stack	[20:40]
*	trinque nods	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	but when 2025 rolls around and late 30s/early 40s dumb fat fucks inquire as to why we're fucking teenagers	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	the answer will be a uniform, resounding "because you're fucking stupid"	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	"every chance you had, you blew it!"	[20:41]
trinque	I'm trying to find a figure on the number of USAians on psychiatric meds	[20:41]
trinque	...it's high, whatever it is	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	like a third ?	[20:41]
trinque	that or higher, I'd wager	[20:42]
asciilifeform	counting the ones in the drinking water or no ?	[20:42]
trinque	one thing I wait eagerly to see is when those run dry	[20:42]
trinque	asciilifeform: no, but of course all pollutants come to the party	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	What does that mean for U.S. employers hiring people born since 1980? Goodman notes that hiring managers shouldn’t overestimate the practical value of a four-year degree. True, U.S. Millennials with college credentials did score higher on the PIAAC than Americans with only a high school diploma (albeit less well than college grads in most other countries).	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	lmao! most expensive mit in the world. also only place in the world where mit grads can not use a battery to light a bulb.	[20:43]
asciilifeform	the exam that only measures what it wants to measure and not first and mostly willingness-to-do-exam is not yet born	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	trinque in general nature has well designed things : junkies in withdrawal are ineffectual.	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the notion one even gets a choice in that matter is pernicious.	[20:44]
asciilifeform	in what ?	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	kinda why you want to hang all kids that do under x.	[20:44]
asciilifeform	aha that	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	that way, the "willingness to do exam" is less divergent.	[20:44]
asciilifeform	yeah i've for many years wanted to see the 'iq exam' thing automated	[20:44]
asciilifeform	as in, there's a piraña pit trap door	[20:44]
asciilifeform	which opens.	[20:45]
*	assbot removes voice from odyjm	[20:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00028083 = 2.2466 BTC [+]	[20:45]
trinque	ahaha, asciilifeform is a bond villain	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	http://41.media.tumblr.com/900eef46da7c13a7fa7cc84362e4b4ce/tumblr_mjefgkz3Zj1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg << this too alf ?	[20:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xJBAiH )	[20:45]
asciilifeform	this less	[20:45]
asciilifeform	but similar.	[20:45]
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mircea_popescu	how about http://41.media.tumblr.com/361fb40b8fe63114ef35b350f3fb66f4/tumblr_mjefebG4dN1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg ?	[20:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xJBGql )	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	!up zen_	[20:46]
-assbot-	You voiced zen_ for 30 minutes.	[20:46]
*	assbot gives voice to zen_	[20:46]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:47]
asciilifeform	not sure why	[20:47]
asciilifeform	but yes.	[20:47]
trinque	lol	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	because girls playing in the bath ? lol.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	classical theme.	[20:47]
asciilifeform	not the bath, no	[20:47]
asciilifeform	they look like actual gurlz	[20:47]
asciilifeform	vs the bizarre kabuki thing that i never imprinted on	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	oh ic.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	best kept secret by patriarchy : men actulaly like women.	[20:48]
nubbins`	<+ascii_modem> nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense <<< omg this is why i shop here!	[20:48]
asciilifeform	22:13:05 up 1 day, 22:13, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	[20:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00027849 = 14.1194 BTC [-]	[21:13]
nubbins`	"By default this override file is named local.mk and located in the top directory of the Buildroot source tree, but a different location can be specified through the BR2_PACKAGE_OVERRIDE_FILE configuration option."	[21:19]
nubbins`	lies, no such file exists!	[21:19]
trinque	"...on 400th target..."	[21:21]
trinque	boost is the fire swamp	[21:21]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: could wait till i post this, you know	[21:21]
asciilifeform	i'm in the process of slicing out all of the actually relevant changes	[21:21]
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nubbins`	heh. i'm actually just trying to feed in my own tar right now	[21:28]
nubbins`	practice, if nothing else	[21:28]
trinque	"...failed updating 3 targets..." BOOOOOOST.	[21:28]
nubbins`	^ <+nubbins`> practice, if nothing else	[21:29]
*	OneNomos has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[21:29]
nubbins`	tbh a fair percentage of my programming knowledge comes from hunting down stupid compile errors	[21:30]
nubbins`	like on the order of 80%+	[21:30]
trinque	eh I know the drill	[21:30]
trinque	boost is absurdly complex tho	[21:30]
trinque	I used it long ago working on a parental controls thing at a shartup	[21:31]
nubbins`	in fairness, the work behind presenting you a bash prompt is absurdly complex 8)	[21:31]
nubbins`	a shartup :0	[21:31]
trinque	an ass hair, the same from a perspective	[21:31]
trinque	nubbins`: oh yeah, big time	[21:31]
trinque	ruby on rails, and wads o boost c++	[21:31]
nubbins`	phun joke for people who work in offices: wander over to helpdesk and say "man, i found this usb stick in the parking lot and now my computer's acting /crazy/"	[21:36]
trinque	heh!	[21:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95371 @ 0.00027418 = 26.1488 BTC [-] {4}	[21:38]
mod6	<+jurov> my mom was using "husqvarna" << they make my favorite chainsaws / best chainsaws imho	[21:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 324150 @ 0.00028134 = 91.1964 BTC [+] {4}	[21:49]
trinque	hm, boost wants bzip2 even though it's been instructed to not use that	[21:52]
trinque	that's about all the monkey-football time I have for today	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	your instructions have no power here.	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	in other news, pot makes one fat. proof inside : http://40.media.tumblr.com/45312d5667ec719da8582897f6e78cd4/tumblr_mj7tt10qNE1s78jo7o1_500.jpg	[22:06]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1I6yIw6 )	[22:06]
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nubbins`	i was fat before pot	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:11]
trinque	gotta eat before you smoke!	[22:13]
trinque	man that chick... I bet she smells bad; they always do	[22:14]
asciilifeform	who's they	[22:19]
*	Bagels7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[22:21]
cazalla	while i await danielpbarron's response, anyone want to suggest why the pogo flashes green after following his guide after a reboot?	[22:27]
asciilifeform	cazalla: iirc that's the default left by uboot	[22:28]
cazalla	oh i forgot to mention, can no longer ssh to it or anything	[22:28]
asciilifeform	cazalla: serial port?	[22:36]
ben_vulpes	http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/technology/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-case-decision.html?_r=0	[22:37]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpFvTg )	[22:37]
trinque	asciilifeform: "stoner chicks"	[22:37]
asciilifeform	trinque: why would that be	[22:37]
ben_vulpes	tl;dr: kleiner perkins wins, modern french revolutionaries proclaim great victory	[22:37]
ben_vulpes	"at least the cause has been moved forwards!"	[22:38]
ben_vulpes	i had a massive change of heart at lunch today	[22:38]
*	asciilifeform read that earlier today, but had a mindfuck and thought it was about perkin elmer	[22:38]
ben_vulpes	i am officially in favor of every welfare and spending plan in america	[22:38]
cazalla	asciilifeform, something i can pursue next weekend i guess	[22:38]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: 'heightening the contradictions' ?	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	the more distracted by sexual inequality, gender inequality, income inequality, and the more attention they're paying to the management of the epic bureaucracy so built, the less time and energy will be devoted to the impending conflicts.	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	more along the lines of draining the battery, asciilifeform.	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	universal healthcare? fuck yes!	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	congrats, you are now clinton.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	at the risk of mixing metaphors, the battery is powered by burning the (remaining) furniture.	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	im pretty sure the woman is thinking, and im pretty sure this is what.	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	universal jobs program?	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	go for it!	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	robot horses?	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	why not?	[22:40]
trinque	inverse of "starve the beast"	[22:40]
trinque	gorge til death!	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	jets that fly like shitty helicopters and cost a bezzilion?	[22:40]
trinque	I like it	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	DO IT	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	those remaining fat reserves? eat 'em.	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	dig in and enjoy while it lasts, piggies.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason that story of mine is set at a feast.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	appetite lacking, but anyway.	[22:41]
asciilifeform	can't speak for ben_vulpes, but no one came and asked me if the jets should be built	[22:41]
asciilifeform	so having a position on the matter feels odd	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	it constrains conversational attack surface	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	get with the social media age alfie.	[22:42]
asciilifeform	l0l mr o polls, 'should grumman get another $tril' ?	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	kickstart it.	[22:42]
trinque	I heard lockheed martin is going to build the enterprise with a fusion reactor	[22:42]
trinque	upvote	[22:42]
asciilifeform	suckstarter.	[22:42]
asciilifeform	(as in harley)	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	as in bad lay	[22:43]
asciilifeform	someone, iirc al schwartz, described his sister as 'could suckstart a harley'	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	men reach a certain age where the only way they're fucking anything is if that anything sucks them off first.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	hence a very cold reception to much younger men's ideas about "couldn't abstain"	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	nigga, say wut ? rape her ? youredoingitwrong.	[22:46]
asciilifeform	in othere news	[22:46]
asciilifeform	we have sata.	[22:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81003 @ 0.0002678 = 21.6926 BTC [-] {3}	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	good news.	[22:46]
asciilifeform	... aaand	[22:47]
asciilifeform	chucked all the extra crud	[22:47]
asciilifeform	from kernel	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	3.5 mb/	[22:47]
asciilifeform	not size that matters so much	[22:48]
asciilifeform	but brain footprint	[22:48]
asciilifeform	drive mounts.	[22:49]
asciilifeform	yes, that weird sandisk.	[22:49]
asciilifeform	sd and usb also work.	[22:49]
asciilifeform	boot time, from end of udev pause, is ~3 sec.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	nioce.	[22:56]
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asciilifeform	927d52a91421ad608ceaf011e56aa91d18f478f81707a8774bc0cbdb146621f5118b35c640b376cdcaef206be98b520802f1f749e387b1b4876d6a6a0d080bd1 turdel-now-with-sata.gz	[23:06]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel-now-with-sata.gz	[23:07]
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*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[23:11]
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decimation	asciilifeform: re: rf quiet pc < the original IBM AT came in a heavy metal case, fully shielded	[23:11]
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asciilifeform	shielded but for the keyboard, display..	[23:11]
asciilifeform	power	[23:11]
asciilifeform	'heavy metal case' is not the same as 'tempest shield' regardless of appearances	[23:12]
asciilifeform	though it beats plastic	[23:12]
decimation	asciilifeform: agreed	[23:18]
decimation	but to get actual tempest shield request spending golden toilet money	[23:18]
decimation	the best approximation one can get as a civilian is to purchase FCC "class B" devices	[23:19]
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decimation	golden toilet lcd displays > http://www.apitech.com/product-classes/sst-emcon-tempest-monitors	[23:28]
assbot	SST / EMCON TEMPEST Monitors \| API Technologies ... ( http://bit.ly/1yodbKb )	[23:28]
decimation	asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claims in the middle of this 2.5 hour podcast that his new 'hybrid DRAM/FLASH ssd drive' contains 11 6502 uC's	[23:40]
assbot	An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus \| The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoevNa )	[23:41]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, danielpbarron, punkman, nubbins`, et al:	[23:41]
asciilifeform	achtung, panzers!	[23:41]
asciilifeform	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html	[23:41]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1yoeybM )	[23:41]
asciilifeform	'Presenting... Build your own Pogotron.'	[23:41]
asciilifeform	tested the result, too	[23:42]
asciilifeform	should take about 20 min. on a typical box, to build the WHOLE ORCHESTRA	[23:42]
asciilifeform	incl. compilers.	[23:42]
asciilifeform	^^^^^^ thing i promised mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068981	[23:44]
assbot	Logged on 24-03-2015 22:31:11; mircea_popescu: well, how soon can we have it ?	[23:44]
asciilifeform	is here.	[23:44]
decimation	congrats asciilifeform	[23:44]
*	gernika has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	lalala	[23:44]
asciilifeform	gentlemen, start yer enginez	[23:44]
decimation	I need to download one from amazon	[23:44]
trinque	bravo	[23:44]
*	gernika (~awt@unaffiliated/gernika) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:44]
trinque	asciilifeform: am meeting up with ben_vulpes and other friends tonight, and I'll bring along the pogo	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	ah how splendid.	[23:45]
asciilifeform	the cookbook is brutally terse, if any of it isn't obvious plz ask while i'm awake	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron manual asap!	[23:45]
decimation	asciilifeform: was this run on your gentoo box?	[23:45]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:45]
asciilifeform	it ought to run on any reasonable unix though	[23:45]
asciilifeform	uses nothing local but gcc	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	anyone know like a nude housekeeper service in dc or something ?	[23:46]
trinque	asciilifeform: I tried the crossdev compile of bitcoind and got as far as boost hell regarding bzip2	[23:46]
decimation	ja but does it depend on particular gcc to bootstrap?	[23:46]
asciilifeform	trinque: note that bitcoind is not included in this yet	[23:46]
trinque	but have working cross compilation tooling otherwise, which farts executibles agreeable to the pogo	[23:46]
trinque	yep	[23:46]
asciilifeform	decimation: i only tried it on 4.8.x	[23:47]
asciilifeform	decimation: if you have something unusually archaic, may have problems	[23:47]
decimation	k.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	somebody at least build this plz.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	even if no pogo.	[23:47]
trinque	asciilifeform: ben_vulpes and I shall shortly	[23:47]
asciilifeform	you will get a kernel image (also contains rootfs)	[23:47]
decimation	I'll try on my rhel6 vm	[23:47]
trinque	"hack night"	[23:48]
asciilifeform	neato	[23:48]
asciilifeform	the Gb ethernet, 3Gb/s sata, sd card, usb - work	[23:48]
asciilifeform	have not yet tested led or button.	[23:49]
asciilifeform	i also eliminated all the standard crud that kernel wants to have by default - support for usb hid, mice, keyboards, framebuffers, and anything whatsoever whose purpose i did not know	[23:49]
asciilifeform	gone.	[23:49]
asciilifeform	if i missed something - shoot it, don't hesitate	[23:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33280 @ 0.00027739 = 9.2315 BTC [+]	[23:50]
asciilifeform	one little warning - 'buildroot' is dumb as a rock, you will have to 'make clean all' just about every time	[23:50]
asciilifeform	(every time you change anything)	[23:50]
asciilifeform	doesn't nuke the compiler though, iirc	[23:50]
asciilifeform	a rebuild is about 6 min. on my box.	[23:51]
*	paxtoncamaro91 (~paxtoncam@unaffiliated/paxtoncamaro91) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	Probably more. << i don't see wut more.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	for those who don't know - 'buildroot' does -not- use your local crossdev tooling, should you have any	[23:54]
asciilifeform	it builds own world.	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	trinque / ben_vulpes hack a uboot module while at it!	[23:54]
asciilifeform	ah and this thing builds uboot	[23:54]
asciilifeform	but i have not tested the one it makes	[23:54]
asciilifeform	i am using the one i made.	[23:54]
trinque	mircea_popescu: what should it do?	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	not necessarily one we'll use, just to get the hang of it	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	it should compile a pogo bitcoind	[23:55]
trinque	I installed uboot on my pogo already	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	nono.	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	bitcoind as ubut module	[23:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i thought about this	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform aha!	[23:55]
trinque	interesting, I'll have to look into precisely what that'd mean	[23:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it isn't a particularly great substitute for a unix, unfortunately	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	which is why i say trinque :)	[23:55]
trinque	lol	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform huge step forward from all the other people way in the back.	[23:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: missing any kind of i/o scheduler, or, more importantly, task slicer	[23:56]
asciilifeform	(scheduler)	[23:56]
asciilifeform	(bitcoind is threaded)	[23:56]
trinque	yeah we'll look at it	[23:56]
asciilifeform	or dos port would have been simple.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin is, but the pogo is single core neh ?	[23:56]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	so then not THAT big of a deal	[23:56]
asciilifeform	this is roughly close in sweat level to an msdos port	[23:57]
trinque	I'm about certain this is beyond the scope of this evening or one six pack of beer	[23:57]
trinque	:D	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform who knows what whiz kidz come up with.	[23:58]
trinque	uboot is basically grub for this thing, yeah?	[23:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110920 @ 0.00027739 = 30.7681 BTC [+]	[23:59]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html << congrats on the pogotron, ascii!	[23:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1yogaSI )	[23:59]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i certainly intend to sit bitcoin down on the metal. on possibly even this machine. but will probably use ada's spark bare metal for it.	[23:59]
asciilifeform	and not today.	[23:59]

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