Forum logs for 24 Mar 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01992 BTC [-] [00:05]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.635 = 6.35 BTC [-] [00:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.5094 = 2.0376 BTC [+] [00:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.78 BTC [+] [00:14]
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smickles unbalanced_away: some of the PT ops allow what is called 'in-kind exchange' [00:22]
smickles you'd basically need to strike deals with each individual [00:22]
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benkay stablized somewhat around 63? am I reading this correctly? [00:26]
ThickAsThieves ;;asks 70 [00:26]
gribble There are currently 11411.366 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 776280.483766 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0026 seconds [00:26]
ThickAsThieves ;;bids 60 [00:26]
gribble There are currently 6959.0102 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 426621.296056 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.7264 seconds [00:26]
smickles benkay: I've heard that saying 'stable' or similar causes it to crumble [00:29]
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ThickAsThieves BFL shipping next week or what? [00:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.635 = 2.54 BTC [-] [00:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00069238 = 12.0474 BTC [-] [00:40]
[\] heh [00:40]
[\] shipping in october, derp [00:40]
[\] how dare oyu question?! [00:40]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P590T] 14 @ 0.07 = 0.98 BTC [00:41]
ThickAsThieves your name drives me crazy! [00:41]
ThickAsThieves \ [00:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.64999999 = 2.6 BTC [+] [00:42]
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[\]_b oops [00:42]
ThickAsThieves hehe [00:42]
* [\]_b is now known as [\] [00:43]
unbalanced Thanks ThickAsThieves, smickles - I didn't think I was ready for the full MPEX but maybe at some point I'll get serious with this. [00:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.64999999 = 2.6 BTC [+] [00:44]
unbalanced Once I stop consistently doing the wrong thing at the wrong time I can begin to scale up. [00:44]
ThickAsThieves coinbr.com is an option [00:44]
ThickAsThieves if you dont wanna pay the mpex fee [00:44]
ThickAsThieves etc [00:45]
unbalanced So it's a passthrough not a "fund" [00:45]
ThickAsThieves https://coinbr.com/ref?c=Q9gPSuUvYS (referral link) [00:45]
unbalanced Nothing against the funds... I'd just like to use all available options and buy at the best price each time. [00:46]
* [\] is now known as forceofevil [00:46]
unbalanced Thanks for the link, I think I saw one from someone else the other day too but didn't get a chance to follow it that day. [00:46]
ThickAsThieves so youd want coinbr/mpex, btct.co, bitfunder.com, havelockinvestments.com [00:46]
forceofevil there ThickAsThieves, I've been renamed. [00:46]
ThickAsThieves also litecoinglobal.com if you wanna dabble in ltc thru sdice, etc [00:47]
unbalanced I'm gonna need more bitcoins. [00:47]
ThickAsThieves thanks! [00:47]
ThickAsThieves those slashes made reading a chore the other day [00:47]
ThickAsThieves for me at least [00:47]
* unbalanced is now known as unbalanced_away [00:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.52999999 = 4.24 BTC [+] [00:49]
mircea_popescu who said the magic word [00:49]
ThickAsThieves tiberius [00:49]
benkay !r unbalanced_away [00:52]
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ThickAsThieves see, i'm not crazy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=156833.msg1665126#msg1665126 [00:53]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves> i'm playing a drinking game, every time tiberius quotes a % with authority <<< lol [00:53]
ThickAsThieves :) [00:54]
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jurov hi mircea_popescu, another magic world: deposits [00:56]
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mircea_popescu i think they be done [00:56]
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mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/strategic-superiority-the-saga-continues/#comment-92457 [00:59]
mircea_popescu ppl nuking my bad physics [00:59]
assbot [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.2 = 0.8 BTC [+] [01:01]
mircea_popescu "There is a realistic possibility to me, that S.MPOE is in fact not owned by many actual individuals, rather than by few with multiple forum and bitcoin accounts. So please, consider my offer and be forewarned. I am just a messenger." [01:02]
mircea_popescu in a sense i suppose as a new guy it's just as good an assumption as any other. [01:02]
mircea_popescu in principle gavin could be satoshi too [01:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7169 @ 0.00069415 = 4.9764 BTC [+] [01:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4782 @ 0.00069569 = 3.3268 BTC [+] [01:02]
ThickAsThieves or you [01:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.525 = 1.575 BTC [-] [01:03]
mircea_popescu yeah, or me. [01:03]
jurov lol would you be capable to restrain yourself into satoshi's writing style? [01:04]
jurov i don't think that possible [01:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21047 @ 0.00069238 = 14.5725 BTC [-] [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00068153 = 0.886 BTC [-] [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068152 = 3.4076 BTC [-] [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6203 @ 0.00068141 = 4.2268 BTC [-] [01:05]
mircea_popescu what people don't do for moneyz [01:05]
mircea_popescu i see the silver debate is going well... [01:06]
smickles mircea_popescu: no pm yet on that offer to help rpietila short s.mpoe [01:08]
smickles go figure [01:08]
ThickAsThieves what do you guys think about an IPO consulting service [01:08]
smickles i think there's money in that [01:08]
mircea_popescu smickles surprisingly. [01:08]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves i imagine it will become quite a revenue stream as things develop [01:08]
ThickAsThieves i have some ideas in the works [01:09]
ThickAsThieves my strength is a bit more on the marketing side [01:09]
ThickAsThieves but [01:09]
mircea_popescu few people understand how to play strategically. putting out the cost to register today and expending the effort to trade/think it through will make you the investment banker of tomorrow. [01:09]
ThickAsThieves i could enlist more help too [01:09]
mircea_popescu and i bet you in 2015 there will be idiots joining in a la that estonian dood, all indignant that the powers that be in bitcoin don't give two shits for his second rate irl accomplishments [01:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2 BTC [+] [01:10]
mircea_popescu because they prefer to promote people who put the time and effort in when it mattered, and already have years' experience recorded. [01:10]
mircea_popescu and lo and behold how fake and unfair it all is and how it won't survive. [01:10]
ThickAsThieves part of me wonders if i wouldnt just be facilitating scammers [01:10]
mircea_popescu except it'll survive just fine, and own their ass into a fine paste until they submit. [01:10]
mircea_popescu well, don't. [01:11]
ThickAsThieves but it has to start somewhere [01:11]
mircea_popescu nah/ [01:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [+] [01:11]
ThickAsThieves the accountability [01:11]
ThickAsThieves and professionalization [01:11]
mircea_popescu yiou never have to facilitate scammers. [01:11]
ThickAsThieves i doubt even 75% of the assets are missing spelling/grammar errors in the prosp [01:11]
ThickAsThieves (% from tiberius dont sue me!) [01:12]
ThickAsThieves i'd have to cover my ass too [01:12]
ThickAsThieves if i give bad advice [01:12]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.829 BTC [+] [01:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.834 = 5.004 BTC [+] [01:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.834 = 6.672 BTC [+] [01:14]
jurov well, actually i'm thinking about an IPO (not coinbr) and who could be consultant [01:16]
ThickAsThieves in your case, you have this whole room [01:17]
ThickAsThieves surely most of us would help [01:17]
mircea_popescu yeah, i'll be your consultant lol [01:17]
jurov but that service needs to plug bitcoins in anyway [01:17]
jurov and i seriously doubt it will be mpex worthy anyway, more like ltc-global [01:18]
ThickAsThieves mp you'd be a good consultant if you needed the money [01:18]
ThickAsThieves but i'm pretty sure you dont [01:18]
ThickAsThieves there so much room for improvement at this point [01:18]
mircea_popescu i was just offering it as a backstop [01:19]
mircea_popescu not tryin' to take anyone's bread away. [01:20]
jurov both creditor and consultant of last resort :) [01:22]
mircea_popescu lol. [01:22]
mircea_popescu universal backstop [01:22]
mircea_popescu now go away and build shit. [01:22]
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assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.158 = 0.474 BTC [-] [01:32]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.5095 = 25.475 BTC [-] [01:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 26 @ 0.5094 = 13.2444 BTC [-] [01:35]
mjr_ nice guys [01:35]
mjr_ by far the best bitcoin channel [01:35]
mjr_ loooking forward to seeing the next diff [01:36]
mjr_ i think petahashes by late summer is very possible [01:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1287 @ 0.00068141 = 0.877 BTC [-] [01:37]
ThickAsThieves here you go! http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.IDIFF.JUN [01:38]
ThickAsThieves ;;estimate [01:39]
gribble Next difficulty estimate | 6640584.46211 based on data since last change | 7590073.16023 based on data for last three days [01:39]
mircea_popescu possible. [01:39]
ThickAsThieves needs to increase at least, what, 25% each difficulty ti make X.IDIFF.JUn profitable? [01:41]
mircea_popescu !ticker m x.idiff.jun [01:42]
assbot [MPEX:X.IDIFF.JUN] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.08995 / 0.22998333 / 0.3 (3 shares, 0.69 BTC) [01:42]
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mircea_popescu $depth x.idiff.jun [01:42]
mpexbot mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: ['149 @ 0.08995'] [01:42]
mpexbot mircea_popescu: Asks: ['60 @ 0.24995', '8 @ 0.45', '30 @ 0.775'] [01:42]
mircea_popescu has to triple practically. [01:43]
ThickAsThieves 6 or 7 diff changes til then [01:43]
jurov but it will expire long before then [01:44]
jurov so i'm not sure if i buy at 0.24995 it will be significantly profitable at all [01:46]
ThickAsThieves pretty risky [01:46]
jurov and mp refuses to reveal the backing, don't remember why [01:47]
ThickAsThieves ? [01:48]
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jurov i mean, if the difficulty oversteps the collateral, idiff expires automatically [01:49]
jurov but you don't know the collateral, you can only guess [01:49]
EPiSKiNG- ;;seen cusipzzz [01:49]
gribble I have not seen cusipzzz. [01:49]
jurov so i introduced https://bitfunder.com/asset/CoinBr.iDiff-E that has known max cover beforehand [01:50]
jurov and it seems quite successful, 381 shares sold so far (arounf 0.1 each) [01:51]
ThickAsThieves oh i assumed it worked like yours [01:51]
ThickAsThieves havent bought mpex's yet [01:51]
ThickAsThieves the description says a date of exp [01:51]
ThickAsThieves liek yours does [01:51]
jurov aside from the cover difference, mine expire much sooner [01:52]
jurov in 2 months [01:52]
ThickAsThieves right, i like that better [01:53]
ThickAsThieves having it available monthly is cleaner [01:53]
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jurov also it has interesting psychological effect, when i raised iDiff-O backing to 0.3BTC max, someone asked whether it's prediction [01:54]
jurov maybe it was you ThickAsThieves, no? [01:54]
ThickAsThieves nah [01:55]
ThickAsThieves i just look to see if i think i might have a chance at 10% or so [01:55]
jurov ofc it isn't a prediction. the price i sell them is a prediction+healthy margin [01:55]
jurov but it helps sales anyway i guess :) [01:56]
ThickAsThieves exposes you more too, but at least its only monthly [01:56]
ThickAsThieves much more manageable [01:56]
jurov yes [01:56]
mircea_popescu should be manageable with a little care. [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00067591 = 9.1248 BTC [-] [01:58]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.62 = 2.48 BTC [-] [02:03]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.53 BTC [+] [02:17]
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thestringpuller ;;ticker [02:22]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 63.38154, Best ask: 63.79372, Bid-ask spread: 0.41218, Last trade: 63.00000, 24 hour volume: 150392.80612442, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.50250, 24 hour vwap: 62.64420 [02:22]
thestringpuller !ticker m ^OIX [02:23]
assbot [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 51.26732239 / 68.67982696 / 69.97754937 (21630 shares, 6,022.77 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC) [02:23]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: "I've always wanted to try my hand at investing, but I don't have much "spare" money, and am currently not working at all. BTCs are offering me an opportunity to not only invest starting small, but learn so much about international monetary policy, trading, markets & so forth. The BTC community here on Reddit is amazing (minus the inevitable trolls of course), and probably the most helpful and sincere group of people I've come a [02:26]
mircea_popescu win. [02:26]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [+] [02:29]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2 BTC [+] [02:31]
benkay whoever that is isn't an accredited investor [02:32]
benkay they're going to get RUINED [02:32]
benkay someone make some laws to protect them from themselves [02:32]
thestringpuller THAT'S WHAT WE NEED MORE REGULATION [02:33]
mircea_popescu let the guy enjoy his money eh [02:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.53 = 2.65 BTC [+] [02:33]
benkay MOAR REGS [02:33]
thestringpuller This guy is a genius. Lets invest 5000 BTC in benkay right now. [02:33]
benkay ? [02:33]
benkay i don't take dumb money. [02:33]
thestringpuller I will call up congress right now. [02:33]
benkay do you bring something to investor/dev rel'n beyond cash? [02:34]
thestringpuller "We need you to regulate Bitcoin for us. A system that is not backed by any government to protect themselves from themselves" [02:34]
thestringpuller I work for a payment processor. [02:34]
thestringpuller Central Banks are a scam. [02:34]
benkay homes I was makin teh funnies. [02:34]
thestringpuller Me too. Don't tell my employer I said that. :P [02:34]
thestringpuller jkjk [02:34]
benkay i really feel for you real processors [02:35]
benkay pci [02:35]
benkay kyc [02:35]
thestringpuller LOLOLOLOL [02:35]
benkay aml [02:35]
jurov that's why satoshidice has ad on reddit [02:35]
benkay the pretend money space is so much more relaxed [02:35]
thestringpuller It's not so much pretend money anymore. [02:35]
mircea_popescu ya just fml here. [02:36]
benkay and by relaxed i mean that instead of worrying about governments one worries about everyone [02:36]
ThickAsThieves did erik ever get any response from rkoi? [02:36]
jurov "Win Bitcoins while stress testing the network" ftw [02:36]
thestringpuller !ticker m S.DICE [02:36]
assbot [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0044444 / 0.0044444 / 0.0044444 (100 shares, 0.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00320003 / 0.00441309 / 0.005598 (312412 shares, 1,378.70 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00545082 / 0.00638999 (1286541 shares, 7,012.71 BTC) [02:36]
thestringpuller wow, when did that happen? [02:36]
ThickAsThieves abstractly speaking i've considered in the past that as a species we should spend some effort figuring out ways to make society more adaptable to paradigm shifts [02:37]
benkay +1 [02:37]
benkay gotta get some flex in the regulatory apparatuses [02:38]
benkay and philosophically speaking, ossification of power systems is a monotonic thing [02:38]
ThickAsThieves good example being how the internet gutted business, or globalization, etc [02:38]
mircea_popescu "win hickeys while stresstesting my cock" [02:39]
ThickAsThieves changes that are bigger than just one state or country [02:39]
mircea_popescu sounds totally legit this. why didn't i think of it [02:39]
benkay "stress testing my cock" [02:39]
benkay does not sound fun. [02:39]
mircea_popescu hm [02:39]
benkay i hear stress test, I think [02:40]
benkay http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2010/03/index-660x439.jpg [02:40]
thestringpuller ;;asks 70 [02:40]
gribble There are currently 11864.004 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 806882.964797 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0029 seconds [02:40]
thestringpuller ;;bids 60 [02:40]
gribble There are currently 7816.305 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 479145.312198 USD in total. | Data vintage: 2.9141 seconds [02:40]
thestringpuller ;;asks 67 [02:40]
gribble There are currently 3204.9602 bitcoins offered at or under 67.0 USD, worth 210775.267292 USD in total. | Data vintage: 14.9539 seconds [02:40]
benkay and do not want ;) [02:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+] [02:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+] [02:41]
thestringpuller !ticker h HIM [02:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.99999987 / 1.99999996 / 2.00000000 (3 shares, 5.99999987 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.9774827 / 2.00000000 (133 shares, 263.00519931 BTC), 30D: 1.40000000 / 2.32302446 / 18.00000000 (554 shares, 1286.95555166 BTC) [02:41]
mircea_popescu benkay i dunno what vaginas you've been to... [02:41]
benkay stress test != flight test [02:42]
benkay or production test [02:42]
benkay stress test can burn up the drives on a poorly set up cluster [02:42]
benkay you know, overload load balancer [02:42]
benkay if even extant [02:42]
thestringpuller ;;seen smickles [02:43]
gribble smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: i think there's money in that [02:43]
benkay i'm always down for behavioral tests [02:43]
benkay UI tests [02:43]
benkay "look and feel and fit" [02:43]
benkay heh. [02:43]
mircea_popescu lol [02:44]
benkay i'm eager to know what kind of stress tests you want performed on your dick [02:44]
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mircea_popescu mostly crush pressure. [02:44]
KRS1 heh [02:45]
mircea_popescu also shear. [02:45]
mjr_ shear lol [02:45]
mjr_ i'd rather use my dick to stress test a vagina [02:45]
benkay http://www.dtu.dk/upload/cesdyn/common%20figures/course-11702/concretebeam-2.gif [02:45]
KRS1 i'd go for the vibration test [02:45]
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KRS1 hey mircea u have any more gore [02:46]
mircea_popescu umm [02:46]
mircea_popescu i tell you sir we here at house of mircea have no gore [02:46]
mircea_popescu no gore at all. [02:46]
KRS1 damn [02:46]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.53 = 7.95 BTC [+] [02:47]
benkay http://goo.gl/pAKZ5 [02:47]
benkay deep gore [02:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 140 @ 0.53 = 74.2 BTC [+] [02:48]
benkay jubilant gore [02:48]
benkay goo.gl/uT3ak [02:48]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.848 = 8.48 BTC [+] [02:48]
KRS1 A man's anus is e licked like ice cream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On3etueeGIg [02:48]
Namworld I've added Havelock Investments to my spreadsheet tools [02:48]
Namworld for self-updating portfolio [02:49]
mjr_ nice Namworld [02:49]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+] [02:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+] [02:54]
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assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 2 @ 0.00983 = 0.0197 BTC [-] [03:02]
ThickAsThieves is that spreadsheet available in editable format? [03:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00366 = 0.0732 BTC [-] [03:02]
thestringpuller https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AiL-WhkVfu89dGZSOWVSOWwwak9UVi1NM2lxdnU5U0E&output=html [03:02]
thestringpuller yea ^ [03:02]
jurov ;;bc,stats [03:02]
gribble Current Blocks: 227700 | Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 | Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 | Next Difficulty In: 107 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 hours, 46 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6643433.27569 | Estimated Percent Change: 37.04449 [03:03]
ThickAsThieves :P [03:04]
thestringpuller WHOA [03:04]
ThickAsThieves whoa what? [03:04]
thestringpuller difficulty estimate [03:04]
ThickAsThieves ah [03:04]
ThickAsThieves been heading there for a few days [03:05]
thestringpuller if it keeps like that diff futures may be profit worthy [03:05]
mjr_ yep [03:05]
mjr_ if these helveticoin guys turn out to be legit... [03:05]
mjr_ could be crazy high [03:05]
thestringpuller ;;ticker [03:07]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 63.60681, Best ask: 63.60682, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 63.60681, 24 hour volume: 150365.18509571, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.16398, 24 hour vwap: 62.60693 [03:07]
ThickAsThieves ;;asks 70 [03:08]
gribble There are currently 12199.101 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 829607.232292 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0026 seconds [03:08]
Namworld man, getting the amount of each shares, average price and balance on each stock exchange feels neat [03:10]
mjr_ Namworld: can i get the link again? [03:11]
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Namworld there's no link [03:12]
Namworld I need to republish the updated script [03:12]
mjr_ ah ok [03:14]
mjr_ looking forward to trying it out [03:14]
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Namworld lotta functions in there. Many different APIs [03:19]
Namworld and each api has different urls for different kinds of data [03:19]
mjr_ it integrates with coinbr? [03:20]
jurov i guess not [03:20]
jurov coinbr has no api yet [03:21]
mjr_ ah i see [03:21]
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kakobrekla !r unbalanced [03:23]
Namworld https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0 [03:25]
Namworld Here it is, v0.3 [03:25]
Namworld yeah, coinbr/Bitfunder don't have API yet so I haven't included that [03:25]
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jurov iirc, you had something for options too? [03:27]
Namworld yeah [03:27]
mjr_ very cool... [03:27]
Namworld https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdGxfRk5SS0hxT1lsVmdLdU1QY0RveGc#gid=6 [03:27]
Namworld For options [03:27]
jurov cool! i tried and partially succeeded to import mpex option prices into gdoc, but felt like terrible hack [03:28]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [10:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/ [10:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013 [10:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.53 = 3.71 BTC [+] [10:19]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.711 BTC [+] [10:24]
Namworld VTX doing so well I can hardly believe it. [10:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.74899 = 1.498 BTC [+] [10:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.74899 BTC [+] [10:34]
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Bowjob yawn [10:46]
Bowjob ;;ticker [10:46]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.10000, Best ask: 67.10001, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 67.10000, 24 hour volume: 116721.98905975, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 62.24099 [10:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00066958 = 0.8705 BTC [+] [11:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00066957 = 1.2722 BTC [-] [11:11]
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Bowjob ;;ticker [11:18]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.22003, Best ask: 67.75000, Bid-ask spread: 0.52997, Last trade: 67.22002, 24 hour volume: 93650.08079424, 24 hour low: 55.00000, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.22593 [11:18]
Bowjob http://i.imgur.com/Zfbq2lL.jpg [11:23]
mircea_popescu haha sweet [11:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.749 BTC [+] [11:26]
Bowjob Wow [11:30]
Bowjob VTX [11:30]
Namworld aye, so? [11:30]
Bowjob it was 0.39 when it launched [11:31]
mircea_popescu this is becoming a pattern. new ipo, goes to 2x, fades then [11:31]
Bowjob i made the wrong call about vtx, didnt think they were worth 3 mil. [11:31]
Namworld Actually, assets on Havelock seem to hover around or under 10% per year [11:32]
mircea_popescu !ticker havelock vtc [11:32]
mircea_popescu grrr [11:32]
assbot Are you sure you have no tobacco? [11:32]
mircea_popescu !ticker havelock vtx [11:32]
assbot [HAVELOCK:VTX] 1D: 0.57099998 / 0.62809414 / 0.74900000 (283 shares, 177.75064253 BTC), 7D: 0.38280000 / 0.40438482 / 0.74900000 (10630 shares, 4298.61068602 BTC), 30D: 0.38280000 / 0.40438482 / 0.74900000 (10630 shares, 4298.61068602 BTC) [11:32]
Namworld and cavirtex charges 0.5-3% depending on volume. [11:32]
mircea_popescu if you look at averages, the upleg is very weak still [11:32]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157377 [11:34]
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Bowjob oh wow [11:36]
Namworld and has at least 7000 BTC traded weekly. Let's say an average of 2% in fees taken and that's 140 BTC, divided by 100k shares for 0.0014 weekly per share. x52 weeks = 0.0728 BTC yearly [11:36]
Namworld At 10% yearly, VTX would be worth 0.72 BTC per share [11:36]
Namworld So I'm not really impressed. [11:36]
Bowjob 10% a year in dividends is really good for a stock.. plus, the price appreciation [11:37]
Bowjob and growth [11:37]
Bowjob assuming coinlab doesnt squish them [11:37]
Namworld coinlab fails... hard [11:37]
Namworld just like MtGox, unsurprisingly. [11:38]
Namworld Cavirtex is very good for the canadian market. [11:38]
Bowjob So that malaysian guy wants to use BTC to pass customs [11:40]
Bowjob well, we dont know if hes malasian [11:40]
Bowjob but 4M [11:40]
mircea_popescu yeah, if they play right with the capital they got in ipo [11:40]
mircea_popescu they could become a force in the na market. [11:40]
mircea_popescu that will be valuavble mid term. [11:40]
Namworld I wonder if they'd expend to the US [11:41]
Namworld But the service is top notch and good options for deposit/withdrawals. [11:41]
Namworld You have to provide identification papers tho to benefit from all they offer. [11:42]
mircea_popescu the only catch here is for their service to STAY top notch. [11:43]
mircea_popescu here's my idea : they have say 10k bank transfer limit. [11:43]
mircea_popescu random number. [11:43]
mircea_popescu as long as their trade grows from 1k to 5k to 8k it all seems top notch and scaling well. [11:43]
mircea_popescu once they go to 15k its suddenly MtGox hell. [11:43]
Namworld eh [11:44]
Namworld Still, if it goes slow because of trading volume, I would complain of service quality but not dividends. [11:44]
Namworld Ah, sad I didn't have more funds for that IPO [11:46]
mircea_popescu thing is, the share in a company doing X is worth Y [11:46]
mircea_popescu if company starts doing W instead.... no Y. maybe 0.5 Y, maybe 0.1 Y maybe 0 Y [11:46]
mircea_popescu i wouldn't buy mtgox shares atm, i'd sell them short to all hell. [11:47]
Namworld Yeah [11:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.747 BTC [-] [11:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067969 = 0.8836 BTC [+] [11:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.0006797 = 1.4953 BTC [+] [11:50]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.26803985 = 268.0399 BTC [-] [11:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.74554357 = 1.4911 BTC [-] [11:54]
mircea_popescu aha! covering eh ? [11:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.731 = 2.193 BTC [-] [11:55]
Namworld Looks like getting those calls was a good idea. [11:55]
Namworld it was a purchase... [11:56]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 10 @ 0.1607531 = 1.6075 BTC [-] [11:56]
Namworld Looks like that's not covering [11:56]
mircea_popescu i thought it was a short on those open earlier [11:56]
mircea_popescu like a couple days ago [11:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 500 @ 0.00201401 = 1.007 BTC [+] [11:57]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27075717 = 270.7572 BTC [+] [12:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27085926 = 270.8593 BTC [+] [12:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27083304 = 270.833 BTC [-] [12:22]
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assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.000719 BTC [+] [12:30]
error4733 !last h vtx [12:30]
assbot Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.731 BTC [-] [12:30]
error4733 !last m s.dice [12:31]
assbot Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00406127 BTC [-] [12:31]
error4733 ;;ticker [12:31]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.03000, Best ask: 68.38000, Bid-ask spread: 0.35000, Last trade: 68.02002, 24 hour volume: 75739.57028674, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.96990 [12:31]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27093498 = 270.935 BTC [+] [12:32]
error4733 "24 hour volume: 75739.57028674" x 68 = 5M$ seems legit [12:33]
mircea_popescu lol wut ? [12:33]
Namworld Totally is, why wouldn't it? [12:34]
error4733 i read this wrong ? 75K BTC trade in the last 24h ? [12:34]
Namworld yeah [12:35]
error4733 GOOD :) [12:35]
Namworld for the second part [12:35]
error4733 not 68$ ? [12:35]
mircea_popescu redditor wants to know "How do keep your wallet on your computer synced with your wallet on your mobile?" [12:35]
Namworld no, "75K BTC trade in the last 24h ?" [12:35]
Namworld yeah to that [12:35]
mircea_popescu it's great that more people are into bitcoin [12:35]
mircea_popescu it's unfortunate they're from reddit. [12:35]
Bowjob redditors are insanely generous [12:36]
Namworld I sense coins flowing my way... [12:36]
Bowjob this one dude gave like 350 BTC free [12:36]
Namworld Odd [12:36]
mircea_popescu "That's not very useful is it? [12:36]
mircea_popescu Say I have most of my money at home in my computer. I am on the road without access to it and I need to spend some bitcoins. [12:36]
mircea_popescu Ooops I am out of luck. All my money is at home and I have no way to get at it." [12:36]
mircea_popescu totally. [12:37]
Bowjob oh and i accidentally wore shirt backwards, according to some asian culture [12:37]
Bowjob its a sign of insanely good luck [12:37]
Bowjob gee. i wonder what that is [12:37]
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mircea_popescu maybw you get shat on by a bird [12:38]
Bowjob already happened [12:38]
Bowjob id prefer a more obvious sign of luck [12:39]
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mircea_popescu maybe you get shat on by a girl. [12:40]
Chaang-Noi lol what is this now? [12:40]
Chaang-Noi i see if i go away for a weekend when i come back all is normal:) [12:41]
mircea_popescu we were discussing finance. [12:41]
Chaang-Noi i have no doubt in my mind that you really where [12:41]
Chaang-Noi anyone get any deals in that flash crash to 52.31? [12:42]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27117008 = 271.1701 BTC [+] [12:42]
Bowjob we got an enterainment deal.. those bears deserved it [12:42]
Chaang-Noi bear trap :) [12:42]
Bowjob it was too risky selling at the top [12:43]
Bowjob yeah [12:43]
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kakobrekla ;;ticker [12:45]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.03002, Best ask: 68.37999, Bid-ask spread: 0.34997, Last trade: 68.03002, 24 hour volume: 73431.39868107, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.99730 [12:45]
kakobrekla not too bad [12:45]
Bowjob proudhon called it a downtrend.. so the opposite happened [12:46]
Bowjob we owe him [12:46]
Bowjob he should get an award for consistently failing his calls [12:46]
Chaang-Noi well when i saw 52 i was wondering if 32 would get hit [12:47]
Chaang-Noi 68 on a sunday, damn... i wonder about next week! [12:47]
mircea_popescu 61.95 was absolute 24h vwap bottom [12:48]
Bowjob http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/bitcoin [12:49]
Chaang-Noi wow [12:49]
damientrog holy shit [12:49]
Chaang-Noi that is bullish [12:49]
Bowjob that flash crash.. i speculate its just a few big sellers, then noobs jumped in [12:50]
Bowjob learned an expensive lesson. and bought back at a higher price [12:50]
damientrog what kind of dump volume would cause such a flash crash? [12:51]
Bowjob 10-20k [12:51]
kakobrekla hows ltc doing Chaang-Noi [12:52]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27114431 = 271.1443 BTC [-] [12:52]
damientrog well at least I profited :) [12:52]
Chaang-Noi kako its over .008 [12:52]
Bowjob i dont understand NVC [12:53]
Bowjob why is it so high? [12:53]
Chaang-Noi NVC is a ppcoin clone [12:53]
Bowjob yeah but why the value?? [12:53]
Chaang-Noi becasue it was premined and they got the difficulty way high [12:53]
Chaang-Noi pump and dump [12:53]
Bowjob and btc-e tolerates this? [12:54]
Chaang-Noi when you premine the shit out of a coin like that its not hard to keep it up [12:54]
Chaang-Noi btc-e is the people doing it [12:54]
Chaang-Noi they got paid like 300000 nvc before it evengot listed [12:54]
kakobrekla btce people are retards [12:54]
kakobrekla bitstamp people are retards [12:54]
kakobrekla mtgox [12:54]
kakobrekla on wait [12:54]
kakobrekla im just gonna stop. [12:54]
kakobrekla on=oh [12:55]
kakobrekla aparently in 2011 and 2012 all the idiots thoguht they are cool for a bitcoin biz [12:55]
kakobrekla and now you have the results [12:55]
Chaang-Noi "Just checked the queue, there are 5500 accounts pending verification at this very moment." at gox that is damn bullish [12:56]
error4733 4300 last time i checked.. [12:58]
kakobrekla ;;goxlag [12:59]
gribble 0.092316 seconds [12:59]
kakobrekla ;;goxverificationlag [12:59]
gribble Error: "goxverificationlag" is not a valid command. [12:59]
kakobrekla eh [12:59]
error4733 6500 next week ? @80$ ? [12:59]
error4733 ;;goxlag [12:59]
gribble 0 seconds [12:59]
Bowjob ". Since we have a limited number of available chips for the first batch, I will not, in good conscience, be taking a large swath of them." [12:59]
kakobrekla well a bunch of money is still puring in [12:59]
Bowjob according to josh [12:59]
gribble 4847647.152065606 [12:59]
kakobrekla its the sellers market [12:59]
gribble Next difficulty estimate | 6678297.40921 based on data since last change | 7641687.50681 based on data for last three days [13:00]
damientrog bfl must be the heist of the century [13:00]
Bowjob So apparently if bfl gets their shit together, they will keep some mining rigs for themselves? [13:00]
Chaang-Noi im sure they ordered first... [13:01]
error4733 i'll do the same if i was running a ascis factory [13:01]
error4733 not you ? [13:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.2703313 = 270.3313 BTC [-] [13:02]
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error4733 i hope this Ddos attak on SwC is from a oncurrent [13:04]
error4733 [13:04]
error4733 *concurrent [13:05]
error4733 [13:05]
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error4733 SatoshiPoker ! Erik if you're there, please make that real [13:06]
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assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 30 @ 0.000674 = 0.0202 BTC [-] [13:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 17 @ 0.00066 = 0.0112 BTC [-] [13:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 60 @ 0.000657 = 0.0394 BTC [-] [13:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 25 @ 0.00065 = 0.0163 BTC [-] [13:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 10 @ 0.00061 = 0.0061 BTC [-] [13:11]
kakobrekla gox > 2. Order lag is simply linked to large/unusual activity. We are working on a new trade engine that will reduce lag for large activity (this is our current main priority alongside keeping things secure and ensuring our legal compliance). Note that even if the engine is lagging, orders are guaranteed to be executed in the same order they were placed. [13:13]
jurov ;;bc,stats [13:15]
gribble Current Blocks: 227801 | Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 | Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 | Next Difficulty In: 6 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 38 minutes and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6692199.0965 | Estimated Percent Change: 38.05046 [13:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4180 @ 0.0006698 = 2.7998 BTC [-] [13:21]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.843995 = 1.688 BTC [-] [13:22]
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assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 245 @ 0.0006 = 0.147 BTC [-] [13:25]
assbot [BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 9 @ 0.007 = 0.063 BTC [-] [13:33]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [13:39]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.71234, Best ask: 67.97000, Bid-ask spread: 0.25766, Last trade: 67.71234, 24 hour volume: 67103.69556708, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.99679 [13:40]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27074638 = 270.7464 BTC [+] [13:42]
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assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.131 BTC [-] [13:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.1306 = 1.306 BTC [-] [13:44]
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assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.13 = 0.65 BTC [-] [13:44]
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Bowjob http://tf2shop.net/ [13:47]
Bowjob ah the old market. [13:47]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.843995 = 1.688 BTC [-] [13:51]
kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.msg1666843#msg1666843 [13:55]
kakobrekla reminds me of nefario [13:56]
kakobrekla even the avatar [13:56]
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assbot [BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.0099 BTC [+] [14:05]
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dub that tie is awful [14:06]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.843995 BTC [-] [14:06]
kakobrekla and my answer https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.msg1667228#msg1667228 [14:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.74895 = 2.9958 BTC [+] [14:11]
Uglux maybe he invites you in his TV show now :> [14:12]
Bowjob ;;diff [14:15]
gribble 6695826.282596251 [14:15]
Bowjob Bam [14:15]
kakobrekla he has a tv show ?? [14:15]
kakobrekla urlpls [14:15]
Uglux https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155098.msg1660563#msg1660563 [14:16]
Bowjob avalon still breaks even in 5 days [14:16]
Bowjob honestly, ill get my shit... the diff might be like 10m [14:16]
kakobrekla lol that guy [14:17]
kakobrekla "i can make pancakes - so i must be able to use bitcoin" [14:17]
Uglux http://vimeo.com/11018684 [14:22]
kakobrekla oo ty [14:22]
kakobrekla mental masturbation awaits [14:22]
Uglux lol [14:22]
Bowjob we'll see single digits soon [14:23]
Bowjob 1 mBTC = $1 parity event [14:23]
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Uglux so proudhon was right all the time [14:24]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 3 @ 0.021 = 0.063 BTC [-] [14:26]
Bowjob ;;ticker [14:27]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.22000, Best ask: 67.22001, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 67.22000, 24 hour volume: 64537.66062626, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 65.00382 [14:27]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 45 @ 0.0006 = 0.027 BTC [-] [14:38]
mircea_popescu lmao [14:39]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla that's like inverse intern syndrome [14:40]
mircea_popescu instead of thinking he's suffering from every entry in the nosology book, like normal interns [14:40]
mircea_popescu bitcoin noobs think I am. [14:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00066987 = 0.8708 BTC [+] [14:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 820 @ 0.00066986 = 0.5493 BTC [-] [14:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150 @ 0.00066957 = 0.1004 BTC [-] [14:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1630 @ 0.00066656 = 1.0865 BTC [-] [14:48]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.843994 = 7.5959 BTC [-] [14:52]
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Chaang-Noi !ticker s.dice [15:03]
assbot Good morning, may you serve the Lord, and may His holy dominion guide you through your dismal life. [15:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8370 @ 0.00066656 = 5.5791 BTC [-] [15:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7280 @ 0.00066655 = 4.8525 BTC [-] [15:17]
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assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2 @ 0.0006 = 0.0012 BTC [-] [15:34]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: When will MPOE bot be upgraded to v2 [15:38]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: When will there be a shareholders meeting? [15:38]
mircea_popescu uh [15:39]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: Also y u no hold press confrences? [15:39]
thestringpuller I DEMAND ANSWERS! [15:39]
thestringpuller lol [15:39]
mircea_popescu what's this then lol [15:39]
thestringpuller !ticker m S.DICE [15:40]
assbot [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00406127 / 0.00410987 / 0.0044444 (2418 shares, 9.94 BTC), 7D: 0.00320003 / 0.00435464 / 0.005598 (288838 shares, 1,257.79 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00544752 / 0.00638999 (1286528 shares, 7,008.39 BTC) [15:40]
thestringpuller !ticker m ^OIX [15:40]
assbot [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 51.26732239 / 68.48072218 / 69.69362193 (24630 shares, 6,346.18 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC) [15:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21992 @ 0.00066655 = 14.6588 BTC [-] [15:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3919 @ 0.00066079 = 2.5896 BTC [-] [15:44]
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thestringpuller Must be dividends paying week for the price to drop that low. [15:45]
mircea_popescu haha it is [15:46]
mircea_popescu friday. [15:46]
Chaang-Noi will there be dividends for dive this month? [15:46]
Chaang-Noi sice [15:46]
Chaang-Noi wow... s. dice [15:46]
thestringpuller no one will know until friday [15:47]
thestringpuller How MPOE bot faired [15:47]
Chaang-Noi are they neg now? [15:47]
thestringpuller I hope the bondholders have hedged their bet [15:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00066079 = 2.2341 BTC [-] [15:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10969 @ 0.00065768 = 7.2141 BTC [-] [15:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 225 @ 0.00439999 = 0.99 BTC [+] [15:54]
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mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157360.msg1667375#msg1667375 [16:06]
mircea_popescu lol poor tux. [16:06]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.825 BTC [-] [16:07]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.822 = 4.11 BTC [-] [16:07]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-] [16:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.52999999 BTC [-] [16:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00066236 = 1.7884 BTC [+] [16:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.53 = 2.12 BTC [+] [16:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2148 @ 0.004 = 8.592 BTC [-] [16:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 10000 @ 0.004 = 40 BTC [-] [16:37]
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assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 6 @ 0.009899 = 0.0594 BTC [+] [17:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0041 BTC [-] [17:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 15 @ 0.00403 = 0.0605 BTC [-] [17:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 18 @ 0.00402 = 0.0724 BTC [-] [17:09]
* dullmoment (~dullmomen@pool-108-45-80-79.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:10]
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assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 7 @ 0.00402 = 0.0281 BTC [-] [17:25]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 149 @ 0.00402 = 0.599 BTC [-] [17:25]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 215 @ 0.000585 = 0.1258 BTC [-] [17:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.821 BTC [+] [17:31]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 20034 @ 0.0006 = 12.0204 BTC [+] [17:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.821 = 4.105 BTC [+] [17:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-] [17:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-] [17:32]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.52 = 4.68 BTC [-] [17:39]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.74879999 = 2.9952 BTC [-] [17:44]
ThickAsThieves ;;tslb [17:44]
gribble Time since last block: 1 minute and 14 seconds [17:44]
ThickAsThieves ;;bc,stats [17:44]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+] [17:45]
gribble Current Blocks: 227833 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1990 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 4 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7798057.04105 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.46146 [17:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00067516 = 0.0675 BTC [+] [17:48]
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ThickAsThieves ;;ticker [17:54]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 69.22001, Best ask: 69.89880, Bid-ask spread: 0.67879, Last trade: 69.15100, 24 hour volume: 53590.65591553, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.02820 [17:54]
ThickAsThieves nice [17:54]
ThickAsThieves ;;asks 75 [17:54]
gribble There are currently 13727.664 bitcoins offered at or under 75.0 USD, worth 1004783.82347 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0025 seconds [17:54]
ThickAsThieves ;;bids 65 [17:55]
gribble There are currently 5320.6814 bitcoins demanded at or over 65.0 USD, worth 356090.217043 USD in total. | Data vintage: 21.7412 seconds [17:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7487 BTC [-] [18:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+] [18:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.53 = 1.06 BTC [+] [18:07]
Diablo-D3 what the fuck [18:08]
Diablo-D3 ANOTHER dividend [18:08]
Diablo-D3 go asicminer go! [18:09]
ThickAsThieves probly the bonus one to fulfill their obligations [18:10]
ThickAsThieves that friedcat mentioned [18:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.53 BTC [+] [18:11]
Diablo-D3 ahh [18:11]
ThickAsThieves then on Wed all shares will split divs [18:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7487 BTC [-] [18:12]
ThickAsThieves it's funny sometimes Havelock shows - when it should be +, somehting to do with how matching orders don't get filled immediately there I bet [18:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+] [18:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 731 @ 0.00065768 = 0.4808 BTC [-] [18:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00065653 = 3.6766 BTC [-] [18:17]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.53 = 4.77 BTC [+] [18:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5891 @ 0.00065652 = 3.8676 BTC [-] [18:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5809 @ 0.00067509 = 3.9216 BTC [+] [18:36]
* Smooblush has quit (Quit: See you later.) [18:39]
* benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8926 @ 0.00065583 = 5.8539 BTC [-] [18:47]
TomServo ;;goxlag [18:54]
gribble 88.704998 seconds [18:54]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1097 BTC [+] [19:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.0043999 = 2.2 BTC [+] [19:05]
* Smooblush (~Smooblush@p57907265.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:06]
benkay ;;goxlag [19:06]
gribble 0 seconds [19:06]
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ThickAsThieves ;;bc,stats [19:09]
gribble Current Blocks: 227842 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1981 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8074724.41934 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.5934 [19:09]
ThickAsThieves ;;ticker [19:09]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.50001, Best ask: 68.51000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00999, Last trade: 68.51000, 24 hour volume: 52567.32160321, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.13060 [19:09]
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smickles mircea_popescu: How's your NPD going today? [19:17]
smickles Have you been staying away from mirrors like the doc said to? [19:17]
smickles $depth dice [19:18]
mpexbot smickles: S.DICE Bids: ['2000 @ 0.004004', '352 @ 0.004', '1512 @ 0.0038512', '1000 @ 0.00385001', '1000 @ 0.00380002'] [19:18]
mpexbot smickles: Asks: ['4259 @ 0.00439999', '194974 @ 0.0044', '500 @ 0.00444437', '900 @ 0.0044444', '204 @ 0.00444442'] [19:18]
jurov nah, mirrors. he should rather forbid the girls to call him "master" [19:19]
smickles c'mon, that's just a healthy sexlive [19:20]
smickles *life [19:20]
jurov you do have healthy sex life, too? [19:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.53 = 1.06 BTC [+] [19:21]
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smickles yeah, but in another way. My wife's pregnant, so she's ready and willing most all the time [19:22]
jurov pregnant again? sry if i misunderstand your family situation [19:23]
jurov congrats in any case ;) [19:23]
* Smooblush has quit (Quit: See you later.) [19:23]
smickles heh, the process takes a while. She's due mid may [19:23]
smickles thanks :) [19:23]
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jurov ic... she has no clock buffers, so you have to wait :) [19:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067508 = 3.3754 BTC [+] [19:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8148 @ 0.00067509 = 5.5006 BTC [+] [19:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067969 = 0.8836 BTC [+] [19:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 819 @ 0.0006797 = 0.5567 BTC [+] [19:33]
jurov S.MPOE, WAT UR DOIN [19:34]
jurov lol prolly i miss bowjob [19:34]
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kakobrekla ;;bc,stats [19:46]
gribble Current Blocks: 227847 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1976 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 32 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7802484.10798 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.52758 [19:46]
kakobrekla blocks are raining [19:46]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:48]
[\] secure the network they said [19:49]
[\] asicminer div just got included in a block [19:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05191801 = 0.1558 BTC [19:55]
* Anduckkk is now known as Anduck [19:56]
smickles ;;calc 73/(1-.05191801) [19:56]
gribble 76.997560095 [19:57]
smickles ;;ticker [19:57]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 70.00000, Best ask: 70.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.70000, Last trade: 70.70000, 24 hour volume: 50443.42134716, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.36583 [19:57]
* Smooblush has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [19:57]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 0.75 = 5.25 BTC [-] [20:01]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05265701 = 0.158 BTC [+] [20:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.8 = 4.8 BTC [+] [20:01]
* benkay has quit (Quit: benkay) [20:03]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 44 @ 0.8 = 35.2 BTC [+] [20:03]
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[\] DeaDTerra, time to wake up and process ;) [20:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05265701 = 0.158 BTC [+] [20:07]
* Smooblush (~Smooblush@p57907265.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.516 BTC [-] [20:09]
smickles $depth dice [20:09]
mpexbot smickles: S.DICE Bids: ['2000 @ 0.004004', '352 @ 0.004', '1512 @ 0.0038512', '1000 @ 0.00385001', '1000 @ 0.00380002'] [20:09]
mpexbot smickles: Asks: ['4259 @ 0.00439999', '194974 @ 0.0044', '500 @ 0.00444437', '900 @ 0.0044444', '204 @ 0.00444442'] [20:09]
smickles quite a bit higher on havelock [20:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05090501 = 0.1018 BTC [-] [20:13]
mjr_ has anyone seen rogue trader? [20:13]
smickles rogue trader? [20:13]
smickles "A rogue trader is an authorized employee making unauthorized trades on behalf of their employer." [20:14]
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mjr_ the movie with ewan mcgregor [20:16]
mjr_ its an amazing trading movie [20:17]
KRS1 market price on mt gox makes no sense to me..everything i know about markets tells me it should have been going down by now. i'm not an expert by anymeans however. [20:18]
mjr_ what tells you it should be going down by now? [20:18]
KRS1 maybe not go down..plateu? [20:18]
mjr_ we are down from the high... [20:18]
KRS1 barely [20:18]
mjr_ decreased weekend volume means less liquidity [20:18]
mjr_ higher spreads and more volatility [20:19]
mjr_ we also had a big jump in difficulty [20:19]
mjr_ that SHOULD tamp down on the supply flowing in [20:19]
KRS1 which might raise it higer? [20:19]
mjr_ think the miners were doing a block every 6-7 minutes [20:19]
mjr_ that should go back to around 10 [20:20]
mjr_ yes, lower supply from mining pools [20:20]
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mjr_ i'm just thinking out loud [20:20]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05469641 = 0.1094 BTC [+] [20:20]
mjr_ i haven't really sold at all...but i have a price target that i want to hit by 2014 [20:20]
KRS1 thanks ill take from that and try to grasp it [20:21]
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mjr_ in an efficient market, with a lot of liquidity, you would see the jump in difficulty priced in [20:21]
mjr_ this aint a market like that [20:21]
smickles KRS1: take a look at the charts on http://blockchained.com/ for the affect of diff changes on price [20:22]
mjr_ signals are all weird... [20:22]
KRS1 ok [20:22]
wao mjr_: downloading rogue trader [20:22]
mjr_ because of inefficiencies [20:22]
mjr_ for example [20:22]
KRS1 which point to high volitility but overall health [20:22]
mjr_ 5500 accounts waiting to open ongox [20:22]
mjr_ they aint going there to sell i bet [20:22]
mjr_ coinbase seems to be quite fucked in fulfilling demand [20:23]
mjr_ none of these mean that it HAS to go up...any guy who wants to buy himself a nice car could drop the price signifigantly [20:24]
KRS1 this is a great link thanks smickles [20:24]
mjr_ speaking of which, anyone seen the 6 wheel mercedes g-wagon? [20:24]
smickles np [20:24]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05283951 = 0.1057 BTC [-] [20:25]
mjr_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z39jXZfCpf0 [20:25]
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mjr_ only a few military grade trucks could outperform you...and they wouldn't look as cool :) [20:27]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05197551 = 0.104 BTC [-] [20:31]
smickles jeez, that thing tears the fuck out of the land [20:32]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7448 BTC [-] [20:34]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7448 BTC [-] [20:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+] [20:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+] [20:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+] [20:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 57 @ 0.8 = 45.6 BTC [+] [20:35]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05197551 = 0.104 BTC [-] [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05419401 = 0.1084 BTC [+] [20:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.7448 = 9.6824 BTC [-] [20:44]
smickles http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ax8zi/say_what_you_want_but_technicals_work/ << funny [20:45]
smickles see my refutation using actual studies to back it up [20:46]
mjr_ smickles: yeah, it is a beast of a truck [20:47]
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mjr_ and yeah, you can retrofit any theory to back up your chart patterns...at the beginning of a "head and shoulders" very few can successfully call the head and shoulders...you see it after it has happened [20:48]
mjr_ i mean that guy not you by the way [20:48]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05419401 BTC [+] [20:49]
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smickles mjr_: where you around back when someone claimed to have spotted a head and shoulders int the btc/usd price a while ago? it became a small meme when someone else colored it like batman [20:49]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 48 @ 0.00384 = 0.1843 BTC [+] [20:50]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 31 @ 0.00384 = 0.119 BTC [+] [20:50]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00385 = 0.385 BTC [+] [20:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 500 @ 0.00383 = 1.915 BTC [-] [20:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.8395 = 2.5185 BTC [+] [20:51]
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mjr_ haven't seen many head and shoulders but cup and handle has been going around a lot [20:52]
mjr_ bear traps [20:52]
mjr_ etc [20:52]
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mjr_ simple point is that just cuz it did that .5 seconds ago, means jack shit to what it does in the next .5 seconds...especially when you have such a small sample size [20:53]
mjr_ how does a chart possibly tell me someone is going to unload a half a mill cuz they decided to buy a house [20:53]
mjr_ only a handful of really big traders [20:53]
mjr_ and they can move the price dollars up or down [20:53]
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mjr_ but not only is there volatility...its also volatility of volume and size [20:54]
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* kakobrekla removes channel operator status from kakobrekla [20:54]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05418651 BTC [-] [20:55]
ThickAsThieves tiberius back in action? [20:55]
ThickAsThieves ;;ticker [20:56]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 70.59701, Best ask: 70.98000, Bid-ask spread: 0.38299, Last trade: 70.98000, 24 hour volume: 46477.06384271, 24 hour low: 60.37000, 24 hour high: 71.43825, 24 hour vwap: 66.26052 [20:56]
ThickAsThieves llestimate [20:56]
ThickAsThieves ;;estimate [20:56]
gribble Next difficulty estimate | 7882079.03307 based on data since last change | 7826894.02138 based on data for last three days [20:56]
smickles https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56025.msg666745#msg666745 << this is one of them mjr_ [20:57]
smickles scary batman double top [20:57]
smickles at 4.5 [20:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05401701 BTC [-] [21:01]
mjr_ lol [21:01]
mjr_ smickles: thanks [21:01]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.516 BTC [-] [21:02]
mjr_ ThickAsThieves: those estimates won't mean anything till we get a bigger sample size [21:02]
mjr_ smickles: here is something funny to watch though [21:02]
ThickAsThieves just checkin [21:03]
thestringpuller can someone buy me a steam game [21:04]
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mjr_ http://youtu.be/xWpOKWjFHNY?t=1m5s [21:06]
mjr_ easy way to make a shit ton of money if you caught that bottom... [21:06]
mjr_ especially if you were leveraged 5 to 1 on bitfinex [21:06]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05401701 BTC [-] [21:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067563 = 0.8783 BTC [-] [21:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00067564 = 2.8377 BTC [+] [21:07]
thestringpuller anyone? [21:07]
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ThickAsThieves i can sell you a code for Bioshock Infinity & Crysis 3 [21:08]
ThickAsThieves (late response to smickles) [21:08]
smickles heh, mjr_ fun stuff [21:08]
thestringpuller ;;seen smickles [21:09]
gribble smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 seconds ago: heh, mjr_ fun stuff [21:09]
mjr_ this won't last [21:09]
mjr_ but damn it is fun to watch [21:09]
mjr_ bunch of people working on bringing more efficiency to the market [21:09]
thestringpuller ThickAsThieves: could you gift me Kerbel Space Program [21:09]
mjr_ we'll be telling young kids in years about when it used to jump ten points [21:09]
mjr_ from 55 to 65... [21:09]
mjr_ they'll be like "it used to be 65???" [21:09]
smickles mjr_: also, i caught that. and it reminded me of the video of the guy who recorded the crash from 30 to 0 which was eventually rolled back due to it being caused by a hack [21:10]
smickles and i think bugpowder said he missed the bottom by .20 usd [21:10]
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ThickAsThieves but how long was his fiat sitting there waiting for that lost opportunity [21:11]
ThickAsThieves maybe since btc was at $50? [21:12]
smickles ThickAsThieves: mine? or BP's? [21:12]
ThickAsThieves BP [21:12]
smickles dunno, I'd bet not long tho [21:12]
tiberiusiv cavirtex shares have almost doubled [21:13]
ThickAsThieves just addressing that things have to dip pretty damn low to be worth the risk of sitting on fiat [21:13]
smickles BP is a smart chap [21:13]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05061551 BTC [-] [21:13]
ThickAsThieves yep VTX is on fire [21:14]
tiberiusiv well his IPO had a fair valuation imo $3mil market cap for entire company [21:15]
tiberiusiv guy wasnt being greedy [21:15]
ThickAsThieves maybe not, but still plenty risk there [21:15]
tiberiusiv how? [21:15]
smickles ;;seen thestringpuller [21:16]
gribble thestringpuller was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 42 seconds ago: ThickAsThieves: could you gift me Kerbel Space Program [21:16]
tiberiusiv unlike most other btc firms hes a fully incorporated company [21:16]
ThickAsThieves i'll skip to you telling me how there's not as much risk as one might think [21:16]
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tiberiusiv thickasthieves: cavirtex has better transparency then anything out there so far imo, his statements have to be audited by multiple 3rd parties [21:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.83945 = 1.6789 BTC [-] [21:18]
ThickAsThieves doesnt mean theyll turn a profit [21:18]
tiberiusiv they already do [21:18]
tiberiusiv and a major one at that [21:18]
ThickAsThieves they have 0 profit to date [21:18]
tiberiusiv look at his trade volume [21:18]
tiberiusiv and fee % [21:18]
tiberiusiv how do they have 0 profit when hes collecting 2-3% off of $150k a day? [21:19]
mjr_ um... [21:19]
mjr_ expenses? [21:19]
mjr_ i don't know their profit [21:19]
tiberiusiv running a server? [21:19]
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mjr_ but that is how you would turn that revenue not into profit [21:19]
mjr_ those 3rd party audits aren't free you know [21:20]
mjr_ i have no clue about cavirtex [21:20]
tiberiusiv ca virtex traded $800k in the last week [21:20]
mjr_ i own no shares [21:20]
mjr_ and haven't looked into them [21:20]
tiberiusiv collecting at least 2% of that for themselves [21:20]
mjr_ no clue [21:20]
mjr_ but i'm sure they will do well [21:20]
mjr_ i am just not interested in gaining on appreciation [21:20]
tiberiusiv nobody else cashes out as fast as they do so far in north america [21:20]
mjr_ revenue streams only ATM [21:20]
tiberiusiv mjr_ dividends you mean [21:21]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [+] [21:21]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [-] [21:21]
mjr_ yep [21:21]
mjr_ the prob for my model [21:21]
mjr_ is that if i believe in the company [21:21]
tiberiusiv mjr_ they will pay dividends out. [21:21]
mjr_ i don't want to sell [21:21]
ThickAsThieves "To date all revenues have been used for business and website development, legal fees, computer hardware and marketing. All available capital is being used to grow the company and complete the business plan items." [21:21]
mjr_ no...they have absolutely no promise of dividends [21:21]
tiberiusiv thickasthieves: yes because volumes have increased only in the last 3months [21:21]
ThickAsThieves "In the case where VirtEx is bought out by another company or VirtEx pays a dividend to its shareholders, Bitcoin shareholders will get paid in Bitcoin at the Canadian dollar equivalent rate using the best market prices at the time" [21:21]
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mjr_ satoshi dice "we will pay 100% of profit as dividends" [21:21]
tiberiusiv yes because its an illegal gambling site. [21:22]
mjr_ in the case that aliens land on earth... [21:22]
tiberiusiv of course it will have the highest payouts [21:22]
mjr_ first off [21:22]
ThickAsThieves is it illegal? [21:22]
mjr_ maybe illegal in america [21:22]
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mjr_ that aint the whole world [21:22]
mjr_ second of all [21:22]
tiberiusiv satoshi dice has a 30% dividend yield for a reason [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00067564 = 4.1214 BTC [+] [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068174 = 3.4087 BTC [+] [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3198 @ 0.00068175 = 2.1802 BTC [+] [21:22]
tiberiusiv it implies major risk of an event occuring [21:22]
mjr_ that is only if bitcoins are regulated in gambling, which no one has said they are so far [21:22]
mjr_ in ireland? [21:22]
tiberiusiv mjr: the market is saying satoshi dice is risky [21:23]
mjr_ no [21:23]
tiberiusiv hence why it has a 30% dividend yield. [21:23]
ThickAsThieves by the market, do you mean mtgox? [21:23]
ThickAsThieves ;) [21:23]
mjr_ they are simply passing through most of THEIR profits to most of their stakeholders [21:23]
tiberiusiv yes and everyone would BID THEM UP [21:23]
tiberiusiv wanting those profits [21:23]
mjr_ ie. the 87% of the company which they own [21:23]
tiberiusiv and the dividend yield would be in the single digits. [21:23]
tiberiusiv the reason its not is because satoshi dice has a huge event risk [21:23]
ThickAsThieves div is 0 this month [21:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1 @ 0.00068175 BTC [+] [21:24]
mjr_ eh [21:24]
tiberiusiv 1) voorhees is in the US [21:24]
mjr_ for now [21:24]
mjr_ and that is a very small window [21:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2 @ 0.00068175 = 0.0014 BTC [+] [21:24]
tiberiusiv 2) hes also a memeber of the "cash in" service bitinstant [21:24]
mjr_ of risk [21:24]
mjr_ actually he is at coinapult [21:24]
tiberiusiv its not a small window [21:24]
mjr_ but keep going [21:24]
tiberiusiv hes a member of bitinstant as well [21:24]
tiberiusiv mjr: i dont have to keep going, the market is indicating a 30% dividend for a reason, if it was safe the price of satoshi would be 2-3x what it is now. [21:24]
tiberiusiv because even a 10% annual dividend in BTC is alot [21:25]
tiberiusiv mjr_: second off it doesnt matter if satoshidice is in ireland, they have no gaming license to make them legal in ANY jurisdiction. [21:25]
mjr_ well [21:25]
mjr_ huh? [21:25]
mjr_ under what license are you allowed to buy milk? [21:26]
tiberiusiv the gambling friendly regions require a license. [21:26]
mjr_ unless there is legislation STOPPING you [21:26]
tiberiusiv the farmer is licensed to sell it to me [21:26]
mjr_ it is implicityly legal [21:26]
tiberiusiv wrong [21:26]
mjr_ and ireland doesn't have that [21:26]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 10 @ 0.05003501 = 0.5004 BTC [-] [21:26]
mjr_ which is why all the other gambling sites are there too [21:26]
tiberiusiv no they arent [21:26]
mjr_ ie. dollar online poker [21:26]
tiberiusiv they are on small islands fully licensed [21:26]
tiberiusiv like winpoker for example [21:26]
tiberiusiv gaming jurisdictions provide licenses to firms [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [+] [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [-] [21:27]
tiberiusiv http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Casino%20%28Eng%29%20for%20Web.pdf/Files/Casino%20%28Eng%29%20for%20Web.pdf [21:28]
tiberiusiv gaming is 100% regulated in ireland. requiring licenses [21:28]
tiberiusiv of which satoshidice has none [21:28]
ThickAsThieves would be nice to see some development or promotion for sdice again [21:28]
mjr_ well, that is happening [21:28]
mjr_ i trust [21:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.516 = 2.064 BTC [-] [21:29]
tiberiusiv thickasthieves: imo if their wasnt so much uncertainty with sdice its price would be 2-3x higher [21:29]
mjr_ i have a lot of faith in the long term prospects of that company [21:29]
tiberiusiv the bigger they get the larger the target on them [21:29]
mjr_ you don't get half of the volume by not being popular [21:29]
tiberiusiv especially when key executives are inside the US. [21:30]
tiberiusiv breaking numerous US laws in the process [21:30]
mjr_ which they won't be for even 4 weeks [21:30]
mjr_ i believe [21:30]
mjr_ not sure the exact time frame [21:30]
mjr_ but i think it is already well known [21:30]
tiberiusiv voorhees should have never been a memeber of the cash in service as well [21:30]
mjr_ that they will not be here very much longer [21:30]
tiberiusiv because as far as US authorities are concerned, he is selling casino chips [21:30]
mjr_ thats nice [21:31]
mjr_ they have done at this point...oh yeah nothing [21:31]
tiberiusiv becuase it was small. [21:31]
mjr_ ok... [21:31]
tiberiusiv nobody knew about it [21:31]
mjr_ and they won't be here [21:31]
mjr_ so... [21:31]
mjr_ no servers in us [21:31]
mjr_ no employees in us [21:31]
tiberiusiv it doesnt matter his name is everywhere and he is a US citizen [21:31]
mjr_ but the us will... [21:31]
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tiberiusiv and he has no gaming license in any jurisdiction even ireland [21:31]
mjr_ so you are now worried about ireland stepping in [21:32]
mjr_ i'll take my chances i suppose [21:32]
benkay the us can [21:32]
tiberiusiv if satoshi dice was double in price the dividend yield would be 15% [21:32]
mjr_ different risk profiles and we can leave it at that [21:32]
benkay freeze your fiat-denominated assets [21:32]
tiberiusiv which is still VERY high [21:32]
benkay take your property [21:32]
benkay and lock you in a room [21:32]
mjr_ um...there are no fiat denominated assets [21:32]
mjr_ all of s.dice is in btc [21:32]
benkay not necessarily true of the humans behind it [21:33]
mjr_ expenses paid in btc [21:33]
tiberiusiv operating an illegal casino is still a massive fine/punishment even in ireland. [21:33]
mjr_ hold on... [21:33]
tiberiusiv please read the laws before you spout BS [21:33]
benkay usg doesn't care about laws or your mythical currencies [21:33]
tiberiusiv ireland is a member of the EU [21:33]
benkay they just lock you up and make an example of you [21:33]
tiberiusiv its not the wildwest like carribean islands [21:33]
mjr_ again, that's nice [21:33]
tiberiusiv exactly [21:33]
mjr_ lock up the server? [21:33]
tiberiusiv you are cashing chips for a casino [21:33]
benkay nope, the humans who can log into the server. [21:33]
mjr_ remember...only the server is in ireland [21:34]
mjr_ there is nothing in the US to lock up [21:34]
tiberiusiv lock up the people operating it [21:34]
smickles < tiberiusiv> yes because its an illegal gambling site. <<< iirc, it's a legal irish gaming company [21:34]
benkay not even humans? [21:34]
mjr_ nope [21:34]
mjr_ just a server [21:34]
tiberiusiv mjr: the US government can seize the server in ireland. [21:34]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05144351 BTC [+] [21:34]
mjr_ hold on wait [21:34]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05144351 BTC [+] [21:34]
benkay and any stockholder they can track down they can arguably nail to the wall [21:34]
mjr_ we have jurisdiction to seize irish property now? [21:34]
tiberiusiv the same way they took megaupload [21:34]
benkay "jurisdiction" [21:34]
mjr_ yeah [21:34]
benkay lol [21:34]
tiberiusiv smickles: they are licensed in ireland? [21:34]
mjr_ kim dotcom is so screwed right now [21:34]
mjr_ i hate getting off scott free [21:34]
tiberiusiv mjr: European union has agreements with the US. [21:35]
mjr_ and having lots of money [21:35]
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mjr_ julian assange...free [21:35]
tiberiusiv mjr: the business was shutdown [21:35]
tiberiusiv thats what matters he still lost tens of millions [21:35]
mjr_ kim dotcom...free [21:35]
mjr_ pirate bay...freee [21:35]
mjr_ hmmm who's been locked up [21:35]
tiberiusiv mjr: his assets werent unfrozen, and he losts tens of millions [21:35]
mjr_ his assets are in bitcoins [21:35]
tiberiusiv being a prisoner in a embassy is being free? [21:35]
mjr_ iirc you can't freeze a bitcoin account [21:35]
tiberiusiv the point is satoshi dice stock can collapse to 0 in 1 day [21:35]
mjr_ i disagree [21:36]
tiberiusiv but you can shut the business down [21:36]
mjr_ i don't think you can [21:36]
tiberiusiv collapsing YOUR equity [21:36]
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mjr_ there are hosts all over the world [21:36]
mjr_ and its just a server [21:36]
tiberiusiv the market doesnt. [21:36]
tiberiusiv hence the high dividend yield [21:36]
tiberiusiv high dividend yield = uncertainty about future profits [21:36]
mjr_ ok, to clarify...i think that the risk that the tin foil hat wearers see is overblwon [21:36]
mjr_ hence making this stock extremely undervalued [21:37]
smickles tiberiusiv: ireland requires a license to play games? [21:37]
mjr_ now obviously, the drones are just one step away right tiberiusiv? [21:37]
smickles a game of monopoly must fucking suck to get started [21:37]
tiberiusiv smickles: all legal gaming jurisdictions require the provider to obtain gaming licenses [21:37]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: and what does it require to let me download music for free? who licenses that? [21:38]
tiberiusiv smickles: BTC can be defined as equivalent to casino chips. [21:38]
mjr_ the govt is not all powerful you know [21:38]
tiberiusiv it would take less then 30seconds to prove BTC are exchangable for fiat [21:38]
smickles tiberiusiv: you mean gambling, right? from what i've read, the lawyers over there see playing satoshi dice with bitcoin as a game, not gambling [21:38]
tiberiusiv mjr: well you are breaking the law anonymously [21:38]
tiberiusiv satoshidice is breaking many laws with its owners publicly exposed [21:38]
mjr_ i find it hilarious, that the same people who usually decry the inefficiences of govt then when convenient say that they can literally do anything they put their mind to [21:38]
tiberiusiv big difference. [21:38]
tiberiusiv smickesL: you dont understand terminology do you? gaming = gambling in what i am referencing... [21:39]
tiberiusiv mjr: if satoshidice future was more certain, the price would reflect it, it doesnt. [21:39]
mjr_ they can't run healthcare...but they could prob insert a chip into every american [21:39]
mjr_ i agree [21:39]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: i totally agree [21:39]
smickles tiberiusiv: yeah, but they see the difference between gambling and playing poker with zynga credits [21:39]
mjr_ the point of investing, iirc, is to try to play on inefficiences, if everyone knew what it was worth...it owuldn't make sense to buy it for more [21:40]
mjr_ and the price would be frozen [21:40]
tiberiusiv zynga credits arent easily convertible [21:40]
smickles and they see playing sd with bitcoin in the category of zynga poker with zynga credits [21:40]
tiberiusiv mjr: not true, when you buy on the secondary market someone is betting against you by selling to you. [21:40]
smickles last i knew, zynga didn't need to comply with gambling laws [21:40]
mjr_ yes, and the market proves us right or wrong [21:40]
tiberiusiv you only truely "invest" by buying on primary market ie an ipo to raise capital for a firm [21:41]
mjr_ which i did [21:41]
mjr_ i have bought on secondary and primary market [21:41]
mjr_ for sdice [21:41]
tiberiusiv smickes: bitcoin is not in the category of zynga credits. [21:41]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: per what irish ruling? [21:41]
tiberiusiv zynga credits cannot be cashed in and out for dollars [21:41]
smickles tiberiusiv: the ECB seemd to think it was [21:41]
tiberiusiv mjr: probably if satoshidice obtains a real gaming license the price will double or tripple [21:42]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: that is the point [21:42]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: similar to investing in med company hoping for drug approval [21:42]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: or new product lines which are as yet unknown [21:42]
tiberiusiv mjr_: ireland has GAMBLING licenses that you need. [21:42]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: i think we are on the same page...they are cheap now, but i expect them to become expensive [21:43]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: so i buy them now...instead of when they are expensive [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6188 @ 0.00066482 = 4.1139 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00065585 = 0.8526 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4712 @ 0.00065584 = 3.0903 BTC [-] [21:43]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: taking on risk [21:43]
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tiberiusiv i dont [21:43]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: in exchange for higher return [21:43]
smickles i think they launched in ireland because, if in the future what they are doing is legally considered gambling, they can get a license [21:43]
smickles currently, legally, from what their lawyers think, it's not gambling [21:44]
tiberiusiv as long as satoshidice managers are openly operating an illegal casino while having a cashin service in the United states, and a presence in the united states satoshidice is not cheap [21:44]
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tiberiusiv they should have stayed anonymous. [21:44]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: AWESOME! that means in less than four weeks their price should skyrocket [21:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00401 BTC [-] [21:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 61 @ 0.004 = 0.244 BTC [-] [21:44]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: since as i've said...their won't be anybody in the US [21:45]
tiberiusiv satoshidice would have been 2-3x imo if the managers stayed fully anonymous [21:45]
tiberiusiv it wont matter. [21:45]
mjr_ lol ok [21:45]
mjr_ i was going off your points [21:45]
tiberiusiv the operators are known to authorities at this point [21:46]
tiberiusiv especially since they openly bragged about the profits a few months ago too [21:46]
mjr_ as long as satoshidice managers are openly operating an illegal casino while having a cashin service in the United states, and a presence in the united states satoshidice is not cheap [21:46]
tiberiusiv mjr: the cashin service is not leaving. [21:46]
mjr_ and they will not be a part of that [21:46]
tiberiusiv 80%+ of satoshidice players are US residents [21:46]
mjr_ from what i understand they aren't now [21:46]
mjr_ and who cares about the players again? [21:46]
mjr_ they can't shut down people playing, we already established that [21:47]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05303651 BTC [+] [21:47]
tiberiusiv the point is voorhees is operating the "cashier" and the gaming table with his NAME on it. [21:47]
mjr_ it uses the blockchain [21:47]
mjr_ if they could bitcoin is done anyway [21:47]
mjr_ hmmm...check out bitinstant [21:47]
tiberiusiv bitinstant allows some american to walk into walmart and fund his sdice [21:47]
mjr_ ok [21:48]
tiberiusiv Erik Voorhees' Experience [21:48]
tiberiusiv Director of Marketing and Communications [21:48]
tiberiusiv BitInstant [21:48]
mjr_ so shut down walmart? [21:48]
mjr_ he does marketing [21:48]
tiberiusiv his name is on BOTH sdice and the cash in service. [21:48]
tiberiusiv it doesnt matter hes asking for trouble [21:48]
tiberiusiv especially in the united states [21:48]
mjr_ whatever [21:48]
mjr_ i'm tired of this [21:48]
mjr_ i'll bet on them [21:48]
mjr_ you bet against [21:48]
tiberiusiv and the market price of sdice reflects those concerns [21:49]
mjr_ i would even lend you my shares to short [21:49]
mjr_ so i could make more money off FUD [21:49]
tiberiusiv we will see in 6months [21:49]
mjr_ yes we will [21:49]
tiberiusiv and your comment about kim dotcom, sure hes free but his business is destroyed. [21:50]
mjr_ i would love the price to fall a bit more [21:50]
mjr_ yeah, mega is done for sure [21:50]
tiberiusiv so equity value is 0. [21:50]
mjr_ oh wait... [21:50]
mjr_ megaupload is done [21:50]
mjr_ mega just started [21:50]
ThickAsThieves what happened to Mega? [21:50]
mjr_ can't keep a good man down i guess [21:50]
tiberiusiv hell never repeat [21:50]
mjr_ especially in NZ or anywhere else in the world [21:50]
mjr_ if you say so [21:50]
mjr_ change your nick to doom_and_gloom_FUD [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.107 BTC [-] [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1052 BTC [-] [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1051 BTC [-] [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1051 BTC [-] [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.105 BTC [-] [21:51]
mjr_ if you remember what warren buffet said... [21:51]
tiberiusiv no im being realistic in a world dominated by government. [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.102 = 0.204 BTC [-] [21:51]
mjr_ what should i do when people are being fearful? [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 4 @ 0.101 = 0.404 BTC [-] [21:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 3 @ 0.100001 = 0.3 BTC [-] [21:51]
mjr_ lol maybe your world is...in my experience [21:51]
mjr_ there are cayman accounts...swiss accounts... [21:51]
mjr_ money laundering [21:51]
mjr_ drug trafficking [21:52]
mjr_ IP theft [21:52]
tiberiusiv all of them report to US. [21:52]
mjr_ and they do nothing about them [21:52]
tiberiusiv yes they do [21:52]
mjr_ they can't stop a guy smoking a joint or downloading a song [21:52]
tiberiusiv nope but they can take down the source [21:52]
tiberiusiv which has precedent [21:52]
mjr_ yep [21:52]
mjr_ no more columbian coke in US for sure [21:52]
mjr_ they took it out at the source [21:52]
tiberiusiv theres a reason americans cant open foreign bank accounts [21:53]
tiberiusiv they did take out the source. [21:53]
mjr_ and that is a physical substance [21:53]
mjr_ yes we can [21:53]
smickles oh shit [21:53]
tiberiusiv the original cartel operators from 15 years ago are all dead [21:53]
mjr_ open foreign bank accounts [21:53]
tiberiusiv go try [21:53]
mjr_ and yet coke is still here [21:53]
mjr_ as is weed [21:53]
smickles how did i pull off opening a foreign bank account? [21:53]
smickles !!?? [21:53]
ThickAsThieves arrest him! [21:53]
mjr_ lol you are ridiculously trolling now [21:53]
tiberiusiv mjr: from another cartel opening up [21:53]
mjr_ exactly [21:53]
jurov we are betting that they can't take down all sources for everything. too expensive and ineffective [21:53]
mjr_ the source can't be shut down [21:53]
tiberiusiv mjr: the coke cartels from 15-20 years ago are all DEAD. [21:53]
jurov soviets tried that, filed and bankrupted in the end [21:54]
mjr_ and yet the market found a way to bring what was requested [21:54]
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tiberiusiv satoshi can be taken down, and a new one will take its place i agree [21:54]
tiberiusiv but shareholders of the first will be at 0. [21:54]
mjr_ i doubt that [21:54]
smickles tiberiusiv: why do you think americans can't open forign bank accounts? [21:54]
mjr_ but again, that is why i risk my capital [21:54]
mjr_ smickles: it's gotta be a troll [21:54]
tiberiusiv smickles: majority of banks in the world do not want the regulatory headache of dealing with US citizens. [21:54]
mjr_ everyone everywhere knows that we open bank accounts all across the world [21:54]
tiberiusiv smickles: please read the laws over the last few years [21:55]
tiberiusiv they changed alot [21:55]
jurov tiberiusiv: what prevents evoorhees selling satoshidice to someone anon in the worst case? [21:55]
smickles ThickAsThieves: you conclusion does not follow from your premises [21:55]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: so wait...since those banks CHOOSE not to deal with headaches...we are not legally able to open an account? [21:55]
smickles er [21:55]
smickles tiberiusiv: [21:55]
tiberiusiv jurov: nothing. [21:55]
smickles sry ThickAsThieves [21:55]
ThickAsThieves np [21:55]
ThickAsThieves you're still under arrest dont worry [21:55]
smickles tiberiusiv: i opend a french and a UK bank account just a month ago [21:56]
mjr_ it's obvious that the one whose fallacious assumptions is not ThickAsThieves [21:56]
smickles easy as pie [21:56]
tiberiusiv smickles: at major banks who comply with US reporting requirements. [21:56]
smickles tiberiusiv: so you admit your conclusion was just plain wrong then? [21:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.004 = 0.4 BTC [+] [21:56]
tiberiusiv jurov: my point was, the market is indicating a unnaturally high risk factor for sdice going forward. [21:56]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: it's easy, at the end of the day, to say why things won't work...it only costs you your time on this forum (probably largely offset by the enjoyment you get from trolling), but it's a lot harder to do things that do work [21:57]
smickles "americans can't open forign bank accounts" [21:57]
ThickAsThieves he forget to say a % [21:57]
tiberiusiv jurov: evidenced by the 30% yield [21:57]
mjr_ lol... [21:57]
ThickAsThieves drink! [21:57]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: that is not a great return [21:57]
mjr_ for this economy [21:57]
mjr_ i have dollars lent out at almost 300% [21:57]
tiberiusiv 30% yield on a deflationary asset isnt? [21:58]
jurov yea that is whole economy problem, not just satoshidice [21:58]
mjr_ bitcoin alone would yield more [21:58]
tiberiusiv your dollars did not gain 10x. [21:58]
tiberiusiv satoshi dice dividend has been over 300% in real terms. [21:58]
mjr_ um...if you got in at 17 they gained around 5-6X [21:58]
tiberiusiv yes exactly. [21:58]
tiberiusiv if you bought satoshi dice the value of your dividends is in real terms is over 300% [21:58]
tiberiusiv so how is a 30% yield of BITCOINs not high? [21:59]
jurov imho much bigger factor than fear of regulation is trust problem [21:59]
ThickAsThieves why am i not high [21:59]
mjr_ ok it is a good return, and i've been quite happy [21:59]
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mjr_ but i do not conflate the returns of bitcoins with the returns of sdice [21:59]
tiberiusiv mjr: the point is its HIGH for a reason, if it was such a A+ asset, much more people would be willing to pay a higher price for it [21:59]
mjr_ most of those super high returns i would have realized without bitcoins [21:59]
mjr_ dude: limited market information [22:00]
tiberiusiv thereby bringing down the dividend yield(of which you have no clue how it works) [22:00]
mjr_ yes i do [22:00]
mjr_ i know a lot better than you it would seem [22:00]
mjr_ are you saying that "bitcoin subsidizes satoshi dice?" [22:00]
tiberiusiv 30% return in a deflationary currency like bitcoin is massive [22:00]
mjr_ no [22:00]
mjr_ their return is 30% [22:00]
mjr_ if i hold bitcoins...i get the return on increase in value of bitcoin [22:00]
mjr_ so you cannot conflate the two [22:00]
tiberiusiv yes you can. [22:01]
tiberiusiv bitcoins are scarce. [22:01]
tiberiusiv 30% yield on a SCARCE asset [22:01]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: so do american stocks take into account the american dollar when the yreport dividends? [22:01]
tiberiusiv is massive [22:01]
mjr_ no [22:01]
tiberiusiv mjr: absolutely dollar matters [22:01]
mjr_ because when evaluating investment opportunities [22:01]
mjr_ you cannot say the entire economy behind this asset [22:01]
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mjr_ is specific to this asset [22:01]
tiberiusiv what are you talking about? [22:01]
mjr_ for exapmle [22:02]
mjr_ i could invest in mpoe [22:02]
tiberiusiv bitcoins are hard to get [22:02]
mjr_ and get dividends there [22:02]
mjr_ or mining bonds [22:02]
mjr_ so...i have optoins in my investment choice [22:02]
tiberiusiv someone paying me 30% a year in income on my capital [22:02]
jurov duuude we're going in circles. just put your bitcoins where your mouth is.. i can provide some s.dice to shorting, too [22:02]
tiberiusiv is massive [22:02]
mjr_ lol exactly [22:02]
jurov unless you fear jail cuz unlicensed securities trading [22:02]
mjr_ what backs this opinion other than hot air? [22:02]
mjr_ 0 skin in the game [22:02]
ThickAsThieves so tiberius, does this mean you think sdice is a sound investment? [22:02]
benkay who got dat skin [22:02]
mjr_ opinions are like assholes [22:02]
tiberiusiv mjr i hold sdice shares [22:02]
benkay where da skin at? [22:03]
tiberiusiv i dont fall in love with a stock like you do [22:03]
mjr_ that is so irrational [22:03]
mjr_ you should sell now [22:03]
tiberiusiv thick: its risky [22:03]
mjr_ i'm not in love with it [22:03]
tiberiusiv thicky: people that tend to be married to a stock usually get wiped out [22:03]
mjr_ its not by any stretch my best performer [22:03]
ThickAsThieves is it too risky? [22:03]
tiberiusiv thick: i wouldnt put large $ into it. [22:03]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: the point is that management is prob the deciding factor in bitcoin ventures [22:04]
ThickAsThieves so what DO you invest in? [22:04]
tiberiusiv thick: well the other btc business's like mpex are more viable then sdice IMO [22:04]
jurov tiberiusiv, really? if bitcoin isn't game currency [22:04]
mjr_ that is why you diversify [22:04]
jurov then mpex = unregulated securities trader [22:04]
ThickAsThieves so mpoe is safest you mean? [22:04]
tiberiusiv thick: if you go on the bitcoin talk forums there is already threads sprouting up of people whining over their gambling losses. [22:05]
ThickAsThieves how is that relevant [22:05]
jurov and that's equally as bas as unregulated gambling [22:05]
tiberiusiv thickasthieves: nothing stopping some angry upset satoshidice customer tipping off the feds too [22:05]
mjr_ ThickAsThieves: just another non sequitur [22:05]
ThickAsThieves lol [22:05]
ThickAsThieves tipping of the feds?! [22:05]
mjr_ LOL tipping them off? i thjought they had the swat team ready [22:05]
ThickAsThieves off [22:05]
mjr_ you men they don't know yet? [22:05]
tiberiusiv it happens more often then you think [22:05]
mjr_ buy buy buy [22:05]
ThickAsThieves sell! [22:06]
ThickAsThieves drink! [22:06]
mjr_ i was under the assumption this whole conversation that the feds were aware of satoshi dice [22:06]
tiberiusiv jurov: the probability of mpex being around in a few years time is much higher then satoshidice, hence the lower risk profile [22:06]
mjr_ thank god no one has ever thought to tell the fbi about them [22:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+] [22:06]
jurov tiberiusiv how so? [22:07]
tiberiusiv jurov if you need that explained to you i dont know what to say. [22:07]
mjr_ guys, such a stupid point [22:07]
jurov if btc is subject to regulation they are both equally illegal [22:07]
mjr_ the exchange they trade on...which is the most restrictive [22:07]
mjr_ thought they were a good investment [22:08]
mjr_ but if they fail miserably...the exchange would still be fine... [22:08]
ThickAsThieves this is all stupid [22:08]
ThickAsThieves the closest thing we have to regulation concern [22:08]
tiberiusiv mpex income is not based on sdice mjr [22:08]
ThickAsThieves is with fiat exchange points [22:08]
mjr_ ok...so if 33% of the stocks traded on nyse left tomorrow [22:08]
tiberiusiv mpex cash cow is the options trading [22:08]
mjr_ nyse would be just fine [22:08]
jurov no tiberiusiv's argument seems that usg inevitably cracks doen on sdice cuz illegal gambling [22:08]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: obviously [22:08]
tiberiusiv sdice can leave mpex with 0 impact [22:09]
jurov and i'm asking, if illegal gambling, why not illegal securities exchange, too? [22:09]
mjr_ i don't know about 0 [22:09]
tiberiusiv jurov: they will crack down becuase the owners are bragging about profits, residing in the US, and running both the cashier + gaming table. [22:09]
ThickAsThieves but i thought i was sposed to by mpoe, not sdice [22:09]
mjr_ but i think both mpex and sdice survive [22:09]
ThickAsThieves this is so confusing! [22:09]
jurov and mircea isn't bragging? [22:09]
jurov lol [22:09]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: most casinos run the gaming table and the cashier [22:09]
tiberiusiv and they have permission to operate. [22:10]
tiberiusiv sdice has none of that [22:10]
mjr_ and they don't operate here [22:10]
mjr_ so...non issue? [22:10]
ThickAsThieves you dont have permission to buy mpex [22:10]
tiberiusiv voorhees is a US resident operating a US based cashier service that allows US residents to gamble on an illegal site [22:10]
tiberiusiv what cant you comprehend? [22:10]
mjr_ operating is a strong word [22:10]
ThickAsThieves thats a jump [22:10]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: i work at a broker dealer...am i operating a broker dealer? [22:11]
tiberiusiv the market is always right. [22:11]
mjr_ or are the people who OWN the broker dealer operating it [22:11]
ThickAsThieves tiberius is always right [22:11]
mjr_ HUGE difference [22:11]
tiberiusiv and its definately indicating concerns [22:11]
mjr_ lol [22:11]
tiberiusiv anyways we will see [22:11]
mjr_ the point is this... tiberiusiv constantly casts doubt about things, but usually has logical flaws that are obvious...when confronted, he finds other doubts...also flawed [22:12]
ThickAsThieves its the troll shuffle [22:12]
mjr_ there is no one who OWNS bitinstant who also OWNS SDICE [22:12]
smickles < tiberiusiv> what cant you comprehend? << i think they feel you are misrepresenting what is happening [22:12]
tiberiusiv if i was wrong, sdice would be 2-3x higher and still offering a great return [22:12]
mjr_ that we know [22:12]
mjr_ oh no [22:12]
mjr_ i think your FUD and others ignorance will keep it trading low for quite a whiloe [22:12]
tiberiusiv notice how the dividend yields of the other bitcoin based business's are nowhere near sdice? [22:12]
mjr_ till good news sstarts coming out [22:12]
jurov tiberiusiv, can't it be just people cashing out of btc generally? all mpex assets went down recently [22:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [+] [22:13]
mjr_ yes...not to mention... [22:13]
mjr_ you have to realize that some people have not made money on SDICE [22:13]
tiberiusiv jurov: yes but mpex is valued higher then sdice with lower profits... [22:13]
mjr_ it has plunged from 75 to like 40 [22:13]
ThickAsThieves there so many places to buy sdice, all you need to do is arb yourself down to market value [22:13]
mjr_ and dividends in feb where not the best [22:13]
mjr_ march divs will prob be non-existent [22:13]
mjr_ so short term investors got out [22:14]
tiberiusiv in theory sdice should be the most valuable BTC company at the moment [22:14]
mjr_ those who appreciate the fact that anyone with that much market share and that great profit margin CAN"T be that cheap [22:14]
mjr_ and who see your FUD for what it is...know that this is a bargain [22:14]
kakobrekla tiberiusiv the value of the company is not measured in dividends [22:15]
mjr_ similar to buying bitcoins at $3 [22:15]
smickles tiberiusiv: you know voorhees isn't even the largest shareholder of SD, right? i think he owns significantly less than half [22:15]
mjr_ he also isn't an owner of bitinstant [22:15]
tiberiusiv smickles: great. hes a major player with his name everywhere.. [22:15]
mjr_ from what i've read [22:15]
tiberiusiv it means nothing mjr [22:15]
mjr_ lol: the "major player" herein referred to as the party of the first [22:15]
mjr_ lol [22:15]
tiberiusiv kakobrekla: dividend yield signals many things [22:15]
kakobrekla dividends means shit [22:16]
kakobrekla got it? [22:16]
tiberiusiv you purchase a stock for its future income. [22:16]
mjr_ yes [22:16]
mjr_ dividends are not the most important... [22:16]
mjr_ look at march...0 dividends [22:16]
ThickAsThieves obv more than one thing factors in [22:16]
kakobrekla tiberiusiv you have lots to learn [22:16]
tiberiusiv kako: no i dont [22:16]
mjr_ by your logic...with a 0% return on investment...it must be the best deal ever [22:17]
kakobrekla yeah you do :) [22:17]
ThickAsThieves tib just keeps pointing out the one thing no one is mentioniong at the moment [22:17]
ThickAsThieves and shifts the conv there [22:17]
tiberiusiv sdice is more profitable then mpex yet is a less valuable firm for a reason [22:17]
tiberiusiv thats called uncertainty [22:17]
smickles tiberiusiv: why is it illegal to play games with bitcoin? [22:17]
smickles why isn't it illegal to play games with wow gold or others like that? [22:18]
ThickAsThieves you cant just declare its uncertainty [22:18]
mjr_ think the point that they are making is that sdice is not converting the btc for cash [22:18]
tiberiusiv thickasthieves: a simple example, a US blue chip like johnson and johnson will tend to have a lower dividend yield then a lesser quality firm [22:19]
tiberiusiv why? because you are more certain to recieve the income from JNJ in the future [22:20]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: you are assuming financial reporting that is widespread, and liquidity that is many orders of magnitude higher than what we have [22:20]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: also...investor savvy [22:20]
tiberiusiv sdice is one of the most liquid btc assets is it not? [22:20]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: which is like saying it is less liquid than most pink sheet stocks? [22:20]
tiberiusiv i dont get what that has to do with anything [22:21]
mjr_ but yeah, nice comparison to a NYSE DOW JONES COMPANY [22:21]
smickles I really don't think what SD is doing is illegal, and I'd like to have a firm grasp of why some people do [22:21]
tiberiusiv theres no other BTC firms that are paying 10%+ a year... [22:21]
mjr_ asicminer? [22:21]
tiberiusiv whats it paying? [22:21]
mjr_ also...your returns are decided by what YOU payed [22:22]
mjr_ don't know [22:22]
mjr_ but pretty sure more than 10% [22:22]
mjr_ cavirtex already doubled for some [22:22]
mjr_ mpoe might be around 10% a year...not sure [22:22]
Namworld I don't consider anything regarding moving Bitcoins illegal and won't until I'm told to. For now it's just some virtual tokens. [22:22]
mjr_ Namworld: Amen [22:22]
Namworld So SD is also not doing anything wrong [22:22]
tiberiusiv casino chips are tokens too [22:23]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: that you can cash out through the casino with [22:23]
tiberiusiv based on that premise people can run gaming tables in their basements using tokens [22:23]
tiberiusiv and have someone operate a cashier service in another town [22:23]
Namworld Casino chips have a fixed USD value and are sold/bought by the casino [22:23]
mjr_ hint hint...they do, it's called poker night [22:23]
Namworld They're a proxy for USD for easier use at the table [22:23]
tiberiusiv poker night is allowed as long as its not a regular occurance [22:23]
tiberiusiv and you arent allowed to take a rake [22:24]
mjr_ once weekly with your mates? [22:24]
ThickAsThieves also its a good example because casinos are exchanging fiat for chips anyway [22:24]
mjr_ actually card tables are legal [22:24]
tiberiusiv theres nothing wrong with that [22:24]
smickles casino chips are provided in an wholly different environment than Bitcoin [22:24]
ThickAsThieves whcih sdice does not do [22:24]
Namworld BTC is virtual token with no fixed value. Some people happen to want to buy it. They don't have a definite USD value however, they're just valueless tokens unbacked by any entity. [22:24]
mjr_ since poker is a game of skill in a lot of jurisdictions [22:24]
smickles it's a complete shit analogy: pokerchips and bitcoin [22:24]
tiberiusiv they arent valueless [22:24]
mjr_ see there is the non sequitur [22:24]
mjr_ the casino BACKS the value of the chip [22:25]
mjr_ sdice DOESN"T [22:25]
mjr_ the casino cannot say "those chips are worth 30 [22:25]
tiberiusiv they dont have to [22:25]
mjr_ % more today [22:25]
mjr_ fixed exchange set by and guaranteed by the issuer [22:25]
mjr_ another distinction [22:25]
Namworld They're not in the sense that people want to buy them so you can sell them. But there's no one backing Bitcoins. [22:25]
tiberiusiv btc can be freely exchanged for dollars, just becuase sdice isnt doing the exchanging doesnt mean anything [22:25]
mjr_ the casino ISSUES [22:25]
tiberiusiv mjr you are argueing semantics [22:26]
mjr_ a chip is issued by a casino [22:26]
mjr_ tiberiusiv: another flawed argument that causes you to jump to another shaky brance [22:26]
Namworld There's nothing in a Bitcoin and no backing. In that sense, they're valueless until sold. [22:26]
mjr_ branch [22:26]
tiberiusiv look at this example. your friend living 10 miles from you, sells chips which can be used at YOUR basement casino far away from him [22:26]
tiberiusiv you can say its just play money [22:26]
Namworld If no one takes it for money, they're worth nothing. No one backs it. [22:26]
smickles remember that site that allowed trading 'stock' in any website? [22:27]
smickles you could buy/sell shares in curry.com, or w/e [22:27]
Namworld They're not unlike game currencies. They're worth nothing, just used in a game. You don't pay tax on what you earn in a virtual game. [22:27]
mjr_ i'll leave it where kakobrekla was smart enough to...you don't really know what you are talking about [22:27]
smickles and people would pay actual money for those shares [22:27]
smickles that wasn't illegal [22:27]
tiberiusiv as i said, the market shares my opinion of higher then normal risk with sdice shares. [22:28]
smickles it wasn't illegal just because there was a real money market for the stock [22:28]
mjr_ this would be a great example of logical fallacies though if anyone saves the log [22:28]
tiberiusiv thats all that matters discussion over [22:28]
mjr_ straw man arguments [22:28]
mjr_ false dichotomires [22:28]
mjr_ dichotomies [22:28]
Namworld Well let him be with his beliefs. He can invest however he wants. [22:28]
tiberiusiv mjr: if the market did not share concerns about sdice the price would be 2-3x higher. [22:28]
smickles tiberiusiv: how do you prove that [22:29]
smickles ? [22:29]
smickles srsly? [22:29]
mjr_ the one fatal flaw is this [22:29]
tiberiusiv i told you from the high dividend yield [22:29]
mjr_ you say the market is always right [22:29]
mjr_ that cannot be [22:29]
mjr_ if it changes [22:29]
tiberiusiv its abnormaly high meaning FUTURE income is shaky at best [22:29]
tiberiusiv if sdice was a licensed company it would probably be much higher [22:29]
mjr_ the market is not perfectly efficient [22:29]
smickles yea, they could have a run of bad luck [22:29]
mjr_ it is not perfectly liquid [22:29]
smickles there income is not guaranteed [22:29]
smickles er, spelling [22:29]
tiberiusiv smickles: i know nothing is guaranteed [22:29]
mjr_ the point is, that people who EXPECT things to look different in the future [22:30]
tiberiusiv but its abormally high yield [22:30]
tiberiusiv especially for a proven moneymaker thats around for about 12months now [22:30]
mjr_ abnormally high is subjective [22:30]
smickles also there have been concerns about the higher usd/btc impacting their volume [22:30]
tiberiusiv confidence should be much higher [22:30]
mjr_ well dollar value of bets has been increasing if i remember correctly [22:30]
tiberiusiv yes exactly [22:30]
mjr_ although btc has gone down [22:30]
smickles i believe the uncertainty lies elsewhere [22:30]
smickles not in their legal status [22:31]
tiberiusiv if it did the yield would be 15% [22:31]
tiberiusiv not 25-30+ [22:31]
mjr_ lol, to hold the majority of people who use btc to the level of expertise of a mature market is simply foolish [22:31]
smickles and also, the market is fickel, ;you can't use that as evidence to their legality [22:31]
tiberiusiv so now you are blaming the market mjr [22:31]
mjr_ for fucks sake, it typically trades its lowest right before divs, and higher right after [22:31]
tiberiusiv market participants are simply stating an opinion with X price [22:31]
tiberiusiv mjr: all stocks do that [22:31]
mjr_ ok...with 5 market participants...how well can we do price discovery [22:32]
tiberiusiv its called ex-dividend [22:32]
mjr_ NO... [22:32]
tiberiusiv sdice has 5 market participants? [22:32]
mjr_ ex dividend means i trade HIGHEST right before dividend [22:32]
mjr_ right after [22:32]
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mjr_ after dividend, price is low [22:32]
mjr_ because of TVM [22:32]
mjr_ before it is higher, pricing in immediate payoff [22:32]
mjr_ sdice does the exact opposite [22:32]
tiberiusiv sdice does decent volumes doesnt it? [22:32]
tiberiusiv its on like 3 exchanges [22:32]
mjr_ sell off BEFORE dividend [22:33]
mjr_ big buys right after [22:33]
mjr_ look at its price over time [22:33]
tiberiusiv if i was voorhees id be on a plane along time ago [22:33]
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tiberiusiv thats all im saying [22:33]
mjr_ that is obvious evidence of immature market participants [22:33]
smickles so tiberiusiv care to say why it's illegal? [22:33]
mjr_ who don't understand TVM [22:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.74479996 BTC [-] [22:34]
mjr_ have you found a place that accepts btc for aluminium foil? [22:34]
smickles i mean, we were talking about that, then you tried to say that the market on S.DICE is evidence of SD's illegality [22:34]
smickles S.DICE is just what one shareholder of SD is doing with some of his shares [22:34]
mjr_ that is the point...if you think most people, and obviously most people in this convo are excluded from this point, who trade sdice do any sort of fundamental analysis or even have traded stocks before...i'd say that is optimistic [22:35]
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smickles tiberiusiv: also, evooorhees has been on a plane a long time ago [22:36]
mjr_ majority are learning finance for the first time [22:36]
smickles he went to china, morocco, paris [22:36]
smickles vegas [22:36]
mjr_ dubai [22:36]
smickles at these plases he sold shars of SD [22:36]
mjr_ and soon parts southern [22:36]
smickles he got backing from major gamblers and indirect money from one casino [22:37]
smickles he advertised [22:37]
smickles in print media, conventions etc [22:37]
mjr_ he's also obtained legal advice in this matter [22:37]
smickles all this outside the realm of S.DICE [22:37]
mjr_ ie. people who are payed to review stuff like what you spout [22:37]
smickles i don't think S.DICE represents the market value of SD at all [22:38]
smickles considering >90% of sales have been off of S.DICE [22:38]
smickles but all this is a side issue [22:38]
smickles why do you think it's illegal? [22:38]
mjr_ thank you smickles [22:38]
tiberiusiv smickles: i meant not being a US resident [22:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 2 = 6 BTC [+] [22:42]
smickles do you think it's illegal? [22:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0197 BTC [-] [22:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.009899 BTC [+] [22:44]
tiberiusiv smickles: i already explained my position. [22:44]
tiberiusiv quit going in circles [22:44]
smickles ok, so you don't have a good reason then [22:44]
smickles the reason I was asking was that I don't believe you gave good justification for your position [22:44]
tiberiusiv i already told you, voorhees is running an illegal gaming operation under US laws, while being a subject of the united states. [22:44]
tiberiusiv you play with fire you get burnt. [22:45]
mjr_ "Well, if activity is unusual 10 times a day then something is wrong with your unusually-mometer" re: mt. gox's response to lag... [22:45]
smickles so the owners of forign casino's cant be in america? [22:45]
kakobrekla gonna be a great publicity for SD [22:45]
smickles even assuming SD qualifies as a casion [22:45]
tiberiusiv smickles: they tend not to be [22:45]
tiberiusiv or are anonymous [22:46]
smickles tiberiusiv: that seems quite wrong [22:46]
tiberiusiv smickles: most major online gaming places are licensed in a particular jurisdiction [22:46]
Namworld In Canada, you're taxed on 50% of your gains. Not 100%. But you can get as much as 43% tax on that 50% if you're in the top income bracket. So as high as 21.5% on gains... hmm, interesting. [22:46]
tiberiusiv and incorporated in anonymous areas [22:46]
Namworld I guess it's not that bad... but not excellent [22:47]
tiberiusiv namworld: quebec have added capital gains on top of that? [22:47]
tiberiusiv quebec has its own revenue collection [22:47]
smickles tiberiusiv: so the people who own the casino's in morocco can't come to america w/o fear of being arrested? [22:47]
tiberiusiv smickles: sure they can come to US [22:48]
smickles w/o fear of being arrested? [22:48]
tiberiusiv why would they be they arent doing anything illegal [22:48]
smickles exactly [22:48]
tiberiusiv voorhees is and he is under US jurisdiction [22:49]
tiberiusiv not egypt [22:49]
Namworld So does other provinces. They have provincial tax/sales tax depending on provinces [22:49]
smickles SD doesn't operate in 'merica [22:49]
Namworld I'd have to check for Quebec [22:49]
tiberiusiv online gaming houses that cater to US customers, tend to stay away from the US.. [22:49]
tiberiusiv the personal [22:49]
tiberiusiv and that lesson was taught during black thursday or friday [22:50]
tiberiusiv when those poker sites got owned [22:50]
tiberiusiv the warning is loud and clear smickles. [22:50]
smickles if you alread said why you think SD is illegal, can you at least give me a timecode so i can grep it [22:50]
tiberiusiv i dont think its illegal, im simply stating the position of the US government [22:50]
tiberiusiv of which voorhees is a subject to since he is residing there [22:51]
tiberiusiv and most of his customers are from there [22:51]
mjr_ you referenced black friday [22:51]
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tiberiusiv it wouldnt take longer then 1 month for motivated US authorities to put a case against voorhees together [22:51]
mjr_ which is when BANKS couldn't transfer money to or from online gambling sights [22:51]
smickles why is SD illegal under us law then? [22:51]
tiberiusiv even if voorhees won the case [22:52]
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tiberiusiv the business would still be ruined [22:52]
mjr_ why? [22:52]
tiberiusiv during the years of the ongoing trial.. [22:52]
smickles i bet it'd be running the whole time the case went on [22:52]
mjr_ i won! first big win for bitcoin...oh no one wants the company? [22:52]
tiberiusiv maybe a different variant [22:52]
smickles no [22:52]
smickles SD proper [22:52]
tiberiusiv would be running, by more cautious people [22:52]
smickles no [22:52]
smickles SD proper [22:53]
mjr_ why do i keep getting sucked back in (FUD, obvious refutations, repeat) [22:53]
smickles SD would likely keep running at the same BTC addresses the whole time [22:53]
mjr_ that is the point...btc can't really be stopped from flowing to SDICE [22:53]
smickles even if voorhees were jailed the whole time [22:53]
mjr_ nor could they seize the btc [22:54]
mjr_ which is the only part of black friday that had any sting [22:54]
tiberiusiv point is the value of the shares would collapse [22:55]
tiberiusiv what happens later makes no difference [22:55]
mjr_ yep, panic can do that...then stronger hands buy [22:55]
tiberiusiv there would be losses [22:55]
mjr_ and the price rebounds [22:55]
mjr_ you only take a "loss" when you sell [22:55]
mjr_ except in cases of mark to market which is usually due to margin requirements [22:56]
smickles so if voorhees is jailed, and the service keeps running as if nothing happened, you think the price would drop for any significant lenght of time? [22:56]
tiberiusiv i think mpex shares took a dive from missing out on 2 major IPOs [22:56]
mjr_ but wait...assuming he is not in the US...you are saying the try to extradite? [22:56]
smickles that would be a real show of strength to my mind, SD keeps going even after the US GOV't tried to shut it down [22:56]
tiberiusiv that cavirtex and asicminer [22:56]
tiberiusiv so is havelock a stockexchange or funds? [22:57]
smickles hah, you still think S.DICE represents the value of SD shares? [22:57]
mjr_ did not realize that asic miner IPO'd recently [22:57]
tiberiusiv or whenever they listed [22:57]
mjr_ thought they started on GLBSE [22:57]
smickles S.DICE doesn't even have voting power [22:57]
smickles tiberiusiv: they arn't listed [22:57]
smickles read S.DICE's contract [22:58]
tiberiusiv smickles: when what is the asicminer? [22:58]
tiberiusiv then* [22:58]
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tiberiusiv smickles im talking about asicminer.. [22:58]
mjr_ thought asicminer was on btctc.co or however its spelled and bitfunder [22:58]
smickles all the assicminer shares out on 'the market' arn't actual shares of asicminer eithr [22:58]
smickles ThickAsThieves: you have severely misunderstood what all is hapening here [22:58]
smickles er tiberiusiv [22:59]
tiberiusiv so if sdice doesnt represent sd shares what do they represent? [22:59]
smickles it's a game [22:59]
tiberiusiv ok [22:59]
smickles read the contract [22:59]
smickles read the contract of all those asicminer things [22:59]
tiberiusiv i asked you what the shares represent [22:59]
smickles tokens in the game [22:59]
smickles which get you a share of game profits [22:59]
smickles which are bitcoins [22:59]
smickles asicminer proper is a private company [23:00]
tiberiusiv which are fully convertible into fiat currency [23:00]
smickles anything is convertible to fiat [23:00]
smickles wow gold and zynga credits included [23:00]
ThickAsThieves it is the party tht converts it that govs are looking at [23:00]
ThickAsThieves not sdice [23:00]
tiberiusiv no they arent [23:00]
smickles yes they are [23:01]
tiberiusiv they simply stated taht exchanges have to follow AML laws [23:01]
tiberiusiv which the major ones already did [23:01]
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smickles or, sry, confusion in who you were talking at [23:01]
tiberiusiv nobody stated online gambling is now legal if you use bitcoins. [23:01]
tiberiusiv show a case precedent [23:01]
ThickAsThieves so if WoW has a poker game inside using WoW gold, thats illegal too? [23:02]
smickles tiberiusiv: why is the use of wow gold legal even tho you can convert them to fiat and the issuer doesn't do that conversion [23:02]
tiberiusiv if they are running commercial gambling ventures then yes it would be thickasthieves [23:02]
tiberiusiv if its a casual gathering of friends its perfectly legal [23:02]
tiberiusiv once you start operating a gambling house for the sole purpose of profit it becomes illegal [23:02]
tiberiusiv smickles: theres nothing illegal about bitcoins themselves nor exchanging them [23:03]
smickles look at what blizzard is doing, you play a game, there is a chance you get coins [23:03]
ThickAsThieves if Microsoft sells me a poker exe and accepts fiat for that purchase is that illegal too? [23:03]
ThickAsThieves ... [23:03]
tiberiusiv no they are earning $ from software [23:03]
smickles you can sell those coins for fiat [23:03]
tiberiusiv not from gambling proceeds. [23:03]
tiberiusiv smickles: you arent logging onto WoW to play poker or toss dice, or guess numbers. [23:04]
smickles how is SD not earning btc from their software? [23:04]
tiberiusiv they arent selling software [23:04]
smickles tiberiusiv: it's still up to chance if and how many coins you get in wow [23:04]
tiberiusiv they earn a % of total bet volume [23:04]
smickles also, blizzard makes money off of the gold directly in the real money markets [23:05]
tiberiusiv theres nothing wrong with that [23:05]
smickles (or is that diablo?) [23:05]
mjr_ point is, to really simplify...whoever converts bears resonsibility for tax and aml [23:05]
smickles so they take a cut of people using wow gold, it's ok [23:05]
tiberiusiv blizzard is not running a game of chance [23:05]
tiberiusiv where they promise people payout multiples [23:05]
mjr_ sdice...no conversion, no responsibility [23:05]
smickles sd takes a cut of people using bitcoin, it's not ok [23:05]
ThickAsThieves diablo i think [23:05]
mjr_ actually same exact standard that almost all btc gambling has been operating under [23:06]
mjr_ bitzino [23:06]
mjr_ etc [23:06]
tiberiusiv smickes: SD dice takes a cut from running a game of chance and promoting large payout multiples [23:06]
ThickAsThieves diablo legendary weapons are a game of chance right? [23:06]
ThickAsThieves cant you sell those? [23:06]
tiberiusiv you arent playing a game of chance to obtain wow items with promised payout multiples [23:06]
tiberiusiv wow is not gambling. [23:06]
tiberiusiv sd is [23:07]
ThickAsThieves wow does share the % likelihood [23:07]
ThickAsThieves of drops [23:07]
ThickAsThieves same for diablo [23:07]
tiberiusiv quit argueing ridiculous statements and read the laws. if sd dice was legal everyone would have ran "token" games in the US. [23:07]
ThickAsThieves you must be mistaking me for a mirror [23:07]
tiberiusiv long before BTC [23:07]
mjr_ evenso...there is no precedent for an offshore company doing business in another currency to be under the jurisdiction of an american justice system unless they hold and or convert from USD [23:07]
ThickAsThieves i bet there are tons of foreign digital currencies US cant touch [23:08]
ThickAsThieves just internal schemes in games, or company promotions [23:09]
ThickAsThieves anywho i cant believe the conv is still going [23:09]
ThickAsThieves i have shit to do [23:09]
ThickAsThieves gl guys [23:09]
mjr_ i know...so bored [23:09]
mjr_ notice how he no longer brings up bitinstant/sdice conspiracy [23:10]
smickles pay money to play a game of chance and if you win you get money back; that happens in blizzard games [23:13]
mjr_ yeah [23:13]
mjr_ i can't keep talking about this anymore [23:13]
mjr_ same thing over and over [23:13]
ThickAsThieves ;;bc,stats [23:14]
gribble Current Blocks: 227872 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1951 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7901792.01955 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.01071 [23:14]
smickles pay (what the us consideres) non-money to play a game of chance and get non-money back, it's illegal? [23:14]
mjr_ i'm very interested in what is going to happen with the credit markets in bitcoins economy [23:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.07 BTC [-] [23:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+] [23:15]
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ThickAsThieves ;;ticker [23:16]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 71.21001, Best ask: 71.30000, Bid-ask spread: 0.08999, Last trade: 71.21001, 24 hour volume: 42847.49345213, 24 hour low: 62.25139, 24 hour high: 72.49999, 24 hour vwap: 67.90892 [23:16]
smickles ya know, i don't think tiberiusiv is a troll. troll keep going when trolled, don't they? [23:19]
Namworld yeah [23:21]
smickles but seriously, did i miss something or did they basically say that SD was illegal because it's online gambling, and it's online gambling b/c it's online gambling [23:21]
Namworld He doesn't appear as a troll... [23:21]
smickles ? [23:21]
tiberiusiv why are you still repeating yourself smickles? the covnersation is over [23:23]
tiberiusiv whose trolling who [23:23]
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smickles tiberiusiv: just because you don't want to participate anymore, doesn't mean the conversation is over [23:24]
tiberiusiv so dont talk about me thanks. [23:24]
smickles you must be new to the internet [23:24]
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tiberiusiv wager me 100 BTC that sdice gets in trouble in under 24months [23:28]
smickles i don't mean to be rude, but i can talk about you and the ideas you presented [23:28]
smickles i wasn't at the keyboard the whole time, so i might have missed tiberiusiv's reasoning as to why SD is gambling or gambling in the order that it needs to be regulated [23:28]
smickles i want to know that [23:28]
smickles 100 btc is a significant portion of my btc, what are the terms? [23:28]
tiberiusiv sdice and pals get into trouble [23:28]
smickles and would you accept nanotube as escrow? [23:28]
tiberiusiv with US authorities [23:28]
tiberiusiv no im not going to give some stranger 100btc for 2 years to hold [23:28]
smickles "get into trouble with US authorities" is a bit too vague [23:28]
tiberiusiv lol. [23:28]
smickles who would you accept as an escrow? [23:28]
smickles tiberiusiv: they could get into trouble for pot or somehting [23:28]
smickles your statement was vague [23:28]
tiberiusiv my statement is not vague, they get in trouble for what they are doing [23:28]
tiberiusiv not for pot [23:28]
tiberiusiv for gambling [23:28]
smickles not for running a gambling operation? [23:28]
tiberiusiv for anything that revolves around gambling [23:29]
smickles how ofter do you do this sort of thing? you seem new [23:29]
Namworld For running SD would be a clearer and simpler way to put it... [23:29]
tiberiusiv the illiegality of it [23:29]
tiberiusiv yes [23:29]
smickles ok, who would you accept as an escrow? [23:29]
tiberiusiv 100btc bet and no im not sending my coins to anyone for 2 years [23:29]
tiberiusiv youll have to do it on word. [23:30]
smickles are you kidding? why should i risk my coins on your word? [23:30]
jurov tiberiusiv then get 100btc worth of sdice and short it [23:30]
tiberiusiv you arent risking anything [23:30]
smickles or the other way around [23:30]
* rodgort (~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:30]
smickles there is always risk to things [23:30]
smickles probabilities [23:30]
tiberiusiv risk is you get 0. [23:30]
Bugpowder Why the f would you sequester coins for 2 years. [23:30]
tiberiusiv you never risk loss [23:30]
Bugpowder you can make SO MUCH from those coins [23:30]
Bugpowder for example, you could have bought calls last night [23:31]
tiberiusiv just make sure you have them when the time runs out [23:31]
Bugpowder like me :) [23:31]
smickles I'm not doing this without an escrow because i don't trust you [23:31]
smickles ;;gettrust tiberiusiv [23:31]
gribble Trust relationship from user smickles to user tiberiusiv: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://serajewelks.bitcoin-otc.com/trustgraph.php?source=smickles&dest=tiberiusiv [23:31]
tiberiusiv i dont get it, trust me to do what? [23:31]
smickles pay if you lose [23:31]
Namworld ye using my Options spreadsheet bugpowder? [23:31]
tiberiusiv right so you lose 0. [23:32]
tiberiusiv smickles your talking alot now [23:32]
Bugpowder Namworld: nope [23:32]
tiberiusiv are you accepting the bet or not? [23:32]
Bugpowder I just use my own brain [23:32]
smickles no because you won't accept any escrow in the world [23:32]
tiberiusiv ok. [23:32]
Namworld But my spreadsheet gives so much info... [23:32]
Bugpowder Too much info [23:32]
Bugpowder I generally just buy around the strike [23:32]
Bugpowder err [23:32]
nanotube tiberiusiv: here's the thing: if you plan to walk away if you lose, then the expected value of the bet to smickles is -50btc. (because he pays if he loses, but gets nothing if he wins) [23:33]
nanotube that's the point of the escrow, to make sure that one party is not planning to default in case of loss. [23:33]
tiberiusiv the chances of smickles not paying are higher then me [23:33]
smickles nanotube: thank you for being more articulate than me [23:33]
Bugpowder buy strikes around the currnet vwap [23:33]
tiberiusiv since 100btc is huge for him. [23:33]
* Uglux has quit (Quit: Leaving) [23:33]
smickles tiberiusiv: i would escrow too [23:33]
Namworld nanotube is the most trusted escrow arounds. He runs OTC and has escrowed far larger sums. [23:34]
nanotube smickles: at any rate, 2 years is a long time... so even with escrow i'd probably not bet on this. :) [23:34]
tiberiusiv yea im not giving someone 100btc for 2 years [23:34]
Namworld Usually people just let nanotube handle escrow for bets and such. [23:34]
tiberiusiv he said no so the topic is closed [23:34]
nanotube smickles: make it 1btc. in 2 years 1btc will equal 100btc today :D [23:34]
Namworld Eh [23:34]
nanotube tiberiusiv: i just advised smickles not to take the risk. if you both decide you want to, then i'm not going to stand in your way ;) [23:35]
smickles tiberiusiv: would you use an escrow for a different amount? [23:35]
tiberiusiv smickles: how about all of your BTC? none escrow [23:35]
mjr_ stupid bet [23:35]
mjr_ stupid offer really [23:36]
mjr_ you are not betting your bitcoins...you are betting your promise to pay bitcoins [23:36]
smickles tiberiusiv: I'm not doing the bet w/o a both party escrow. Are you willing to do any amount with an escrow? [23:36]
mjr_ which i would not estimate is worth nearly 100 btc [23:36]
tiberiusiv my holdings are probably some of the hihgest in this chat. [23:37]
mjr_ not questioning that [23:37]
tiberiusiv smickles: no 2 years is too long to have in someone i dont know escrow [23:37]
mjr_ no one in any financial market would make an anonymous non collateralized bet 2 years out on a nebulous outcome [23:37]
smickles tiberiusiv: i never said it had to be someone you don't know [23:37]
mjr_ you don't know nanotube? [23:37]
tiberiusiv no [23:38]
smickles the idea of an escrow is that we both trust the escrow [23:38]
mjr_ my point is...promise to pay is not the same as coins in the bank...no one would say that it is [23:38]
nanotube well, if there are no mutually trusted third parties, i guess this is a non-starter. [23:38]
Bugpowder ;;getrating nanotube [23:38]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask nanotube!~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube . User nanotube, rated since Mon Nov 8 10:14:09 2010. Cumulative rating 674, from 186 total ratings. Received ratings: 186 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 177 positive, 7 negative. Details: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=nanotube [23:38]
mjr_ lol, is that the highest rating in all of otc? [23:38]
Bugpowder ;;getrating tiberiusiv [23:38]
gribble This user has not yet been rated. WARNING: Currently not authenticated. [23:38]
Bugpowder ;;getrating smickles [23:39]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask smickles!~smickles@67.222.146.32 . User smickles, rated since Wed Jan 4 18:28:52 2012. Cumulative rating 90, from 51 total ratings. Received ratings: 50 positive, 1 negative. Sent ratings: 51 positive, 6 negative. Details: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=smickles [23:39]
smickles mjr_: i don't think nano is the highest rated [23:39]
tiberiusiv how do i get authenticated? [23:39]
Bugpowder usagi neg'ed you? [23:39]
tiberiusiv nanotube: you buy/sell btc? [23:39]
smickles Bugpowder: yeah, for saying he defaulted on that contract [23:39]
mjr_ you'd need to get registered with gribble [23:39]
smickles ;;guide [23:39]
gribble Error: "guide" is not a valid command. [23:39]
mjr_ then build up trust through transactions [23:40]
Bugpowder http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System [23:40]
Bugpowder nanotube founded the otc market, right? [23:40]
mjr_ its called the web of trust and its the closest thing to a credit rating system that exists [23:40]
mjr_ the idea of web of trust systems is not unique to bitcoin, nor started by it [23:40]
mjr_ anyway, without a more clear definition (stock trades below .00001 or something that is easily verifiable) it isn't a good bet [23:41]
mjr_ since we are talking about risks in investing in S.DICE [23:41]
mjr_ it'd be easier and smarter to do options on the stock expiring two years out [23:42]
smickles mircea_popescu: you might be interested in the logs of here starting at 21:26 utc [23:42]
mjr_ either tiberiusiv selling a call or smickles selling a put...or some more complex combination [23:43]
tiberiusiv mircea would agree with everything i said about sdice [23:43]
* Thinker (~Thinker~@cpe-24-59-184-164.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:43]
jurov DRINK! mircea would agree with everything i said about sdice [23:45]
Namworld What can I do to borrow some of that capital, smickles? [23:45]
Namworld Can I put some stock in escrow? [23:45]
* _M is now known as cadsII [23:45]
ThickAsThieves maybe this is an area for bitbet to embrace, [23:47]
ThickAsThieves escrowing personal bets [23:47]
Namworld clever idea... let bitbet take not open to the public bets. Would require some coding tho [23:49]
ThickAsThieves but still have an option to leave them visible to public [23:49]
ThickAsThieves yknow, for drama [23:49]
jurov http://bitbet.us/bet/138/satoshidice-will-be-taken-down-seized-by-the-us/ [23:50]
jurov teh market says "No".. at least not till june [23:50]
tiberiusiv 31% are no bets [23:51]
tiberiusiv err yes bets [23:51]
tiberiusiv thats very shaky confidence especially for june [23:51]
jurov http://bitbet.us/bet/113/bitbet-will-we-worth-more-than-satoshi-dice/ can be conveived as a proxy bet, too [23:52]
tiberiusiv well bitbet would have to climb twenty fold [23:53]
jurov but if s.dice gets really seized this year, it would happen [23:53]
tiberiusiv 35% chance of bbet [23:54]
tiberiusiv thats still quite high [23:54]
mjr_ seized? [23:55]
mjr_ this looks like a good bank [23:55]
tiberiusiv no surpassing sdice [23:55]
ThickAsThieves these bets are like spare change though [23:55]
tiberiusiv true [23:55]
jurov and it's normal on bitbet that if anything gets over 90%/10% there are "just in case" bets arriving that push the odds back to middle [23:55]
jurov so it isn't necessarily "shaky" indication [23:55]
tiberiusiv we have 2 venues that are pricing major uncertainty on sdice [23:56]
mjr_ do they have to take the servers physically? [23:56]
ThickAsThieves major? [23:56]
tiberiusiv 30% yes bets in 90days? 30%+ dividend yield on the stock... [23:56]
ThickAsThieves again this is spare change [23:56]
ThickAsThieves its like polling [23:57]
ThickAsThieves useless in low qty [23:57]
tiberiusiv yes i know bbet is illiquid, mpex is illquid and inefficient blah blah blah [23:57]
jurov tiberiusiv put some serious money on that former bet, you will get the liquidity [23:57]
jurov i guarantee you [23:57]
tiberiusiv my time frame was 24months not 3 [23:57]
ThickAsThieves actually i'd love it if you put 100btc against sdice on that bet [23:58]
tiberiusiv or 2 and 1 week lol [23:58]
jurov well, then make new one [23:58]
ThickAsThieves you might spook idiots [23:58]
tiberiusiv what % of sdice is held by management [23:58]
thestringpuller Jurov is a big meanie head [23:59]
ThickAsThieves not knowable [23:59]
* benkay has quit (Quit: benkay) [23:59]
mjr_ lol ~87% [23:59]
mjr_ or should we say privately held [23:59]
ThickAsThieves yeah [23:59]
tiberiusiv only 13% is floating? [23:59]
mjr_ as evoorhees is the only manager [23:59]
mjr_ yep [23:59]
mjr_ which is what smickles has been trying to tell you [23:59]
thestringpuller ;;ticker [23:59]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 71.90000, Best ask: 72.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 71.90000, 24 hour volume: 40862.73469029, 24 hour low: 62.26100, 24 hour high: 72.49999, 24 hour vwap: 68.23128 [23:59]
Category: Logs
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