Forum logs for 24 Aug 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00063678 = 18.2119 BTC [-] {4} [00:05]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not sure what his story is << herr handle is a u.s. army officer, now working at a not-too-hard-to-guess-which world-famous bureaucracy. [00:15]
asciilifeform (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323&cpage=1#comment-7376 << that bureau.) [00:16]
mircea_popescu bonano crime fambly ? [00:16]
asciilifeform nsano crime family [00:17]
mircea_popescu lol. in every remaining competent bureaucrat there's an intelligent person captive, struggling to get free. [00:18]
mircea_popescu at least, that's what his piece brings to mind. [00:18]
mircea_popescu an' with that, i'll be off to meet people and things. later dear chan! [00:18]
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* asciilifeform off to cook severe coffee, for conversion into mathematics [00:19]
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assbot Guevara246 +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0 [00:34]
TomServo !up guevara246 [00:37]
* assbot gives voice to guevara246 [00:37]
guevara246 Hey, I have a question regarding P2SH and timelocked transactions: in a use case where a client is purchasing a good or service using a 2 of 3 multisig scheme, can a timelocked transaction be broadcast to the network and invalidated by a second transaction, signed by the same agents, sending outputs to a different address? [00:41]
guevara246 the rationale being applied to chargeback and fraud [00:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00063859 = 6.9926 BTC [+] {2} [01:22]
asciilifeform http://imgur.com/ck9mDub [01:24]
assbot The Return of Windowcat - Imgur [01:24]
fluffypony YAY! [01:27]
fluffypony Satoshi's buddy [01:27]
fluffypony I mean [01:28]
fluffypony usagi's buddy [01:28]
fluffypony SuchWow [01:28]
fluffypony I mean such typo [01:28]
fluffypony complete typo, sorry SuchWow [01:28]
TomServo Now you had better !up him, in case he should care to comment. [01:28]
asciilifeform untameable but highly useful animal. [01:29]
TomServo asciilifeform: Is that the cat that killed the defective bird? [01:30]
asciilifeform TomServo: the very same. [01:30]
TomServo Useful indeed. [01:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9421 @ 0.00063578 = 5.9897 BTC [-] [01:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0006346 = 4.3787 BTC [-] [01:48]
thestringpuller ;;later tell guevara246 this is a problem I was working on. even with a single sig a timelocked transaction can be double spent if it another valid transaction is broadcasted and accepted before the timelock expires the original transaction becomes expired [01:57]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:57]
thestringpuller becomes invalidated* [01:57]
thestringpuller it's weird how this issue hasn't been addressed more in use cases since there is no way to really set up a trust fund of sorts with time-delayed transactions without the risk of the beneficiary double spending [01:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.0006354 = 3.9077 BTC [+] [02:15]
TomServo $depth mpoe [02:16]
empyex TomServo: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=6 Or use a valid MPSIC! [02:16]
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kakobrekla >Providing you with financials only provides grist for your complaint mill, and gives you more to moan about. So that's not a priority. [02:46]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:48]
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nubbins` i always thought the word "factoid" was a direct analogue of the phrase "useless trivia" [03:31]
nubbins` today, i find out i've been using this word incorrectly since childhood [03:31]
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ThickAsThieves me too, that is interesting [03:43]
ThickAsThieves factoid is a factoid [03:44]
mircea_popescu !up BlueMeanie4 [03:44]
ThickAsThieves pretty cool [03:44]
-assbot- You voiced BlueMeanie4 for 30 minutes. [03:44]
* assbot gives voice to BlueMeanie4 [03:44]
mircea_popescu the rationale being applied to chargeback and fraud < yes. [03:44]
mircea_popescu Now you had better !up him, in case he should care to comment. <<, your dry humour has been recorded :D [03:46]
mircea_popescu it's weird how this issue hasn't been addressed << they're called power rangers for a reason you know. [03:47]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla who's that ? [03:47]
mircea_popescu nubbins` no, it's a direct anlogue of useless trivia. [03:48]
nubbins` the definition of factoid was in fact a factoid for me this whole time [03:48]
mircea_popescu trivial or false information that exists more for being repeated than for being important [03:48]
nubbins` i was very nonplussed upon realizing this [03:48]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` so what do you (erroneously) think it means now ? [03:49]
ThickAsThieves lies [03:49]
ThickAsThieves damn lies [03:49]
mircea_popescu From: Ana Samaniego Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 4:24 PM Subject: Hello I NEED YOUR PARTNERSHIP OF $49.5 MILLION USD. E-MAIL: jmorrow147@rogers.com [03:49]
asciilifeform hanbot: lol. windowcat, in all likelihood, began by watching birds. or the play of her kitten, microwindowcat. but she's been known to look in the window. [03:49]
mircea_popescu chick wants to has my babies ? [03:49]
ThickAsThieves i heard you wanted to have children [03:50]
mircea_popescu yes, but for lunch. [03:50]
asciilifeform !b 2 [03:50]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X4SYJR.txt ) [03:50]
ThickAsThieves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumplings_(film) [03:51]
assbot Dumplings (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [03:51]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: analogous to "human" vs "humanoid" [03:51]
ThickAsThieves good little trilogy [03:51]
ThickAsThieves 3 [03:51]
ThickAsThieves ...Extremes [03:51]
mircea_popescu nubbins` that's nonsense. next you're going to believe a tabloid is a littler table. [03:51]
nubbins` HEH. [03:51]
nubbins` humanoid doesn't mean littler table! [03:51]
nubbins` i, uh. wait [03:52]
asciilifeform no. it's a little tabl. [03:52]
nubbins` humanoid doesn't mean littler human! [03:52]
mircea_popescu a humanoid is some sort of human-resembling thing. a factoid holds more prejudice : it's a nonfactual fact-looking thing. [03:52]
ThickAsThieves like a human [03:52]
ThickAsThieves not a human [03:52]
asciilifeform or, 'spheroid' vs sphere. [03:52]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves like a virgin. [03:52]
asciilifeform http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Spheroid.html << for folks with memory loss [03:52]
assbot Spheroid -- from Wolfram MathWorld [03:52]
nubbins` like someone who doesn't own btc [03:52]
mircea_popescu this should totally be a thing. "honey, i'm a virginoid." [03:52]
ThickAsThieves i can feel my heart beat [03:52]
nubbins` elijah wood is a virginoid [03:53]
ThickAsThieves my first gf was a virginoid [03:53]
mircea_popescu "what's that ? " "like a virgin that's really obsessed with the notion people are trying to fuck her. paranoid virgin." [03:53]
ThickAsThieves she thought she was a virgin cuz she only had anal [03:53]
mircea_popescu so what's a fucktoid ? [03:53]
ThickAsThieves handjob [03:53]
mircea_popescu or maybe it should be spelled fucktoy'd. [03:53]
ThickAsThieves this is actually what the bitcoin community does to everything [03:54]
ThickAsThieves make it -oid [03:54]
asciilifeform 'the irish maidens have not lost their virtue; they merely misplaced it by an inch.' [03:54]
mircea_popescu altcoinoid ? [03:54]
mircea_popescu "no ty, i have my own altoids" [03:54]
ThickAsThieves blockchainoid [03:55]
mircea_popescu nubbins` see what you've doneoid ? i hope you're happyoid nao. [03:55]
ThickAsThieves biggestfirstbestoid [03:55]
mircea_popescu ID! [03:55]
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* asciilifeform -oid << has long recognized the existence of 'womanoids', who bear the same relationship to 'woman' as spheroid to sphere. [03:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.0006346 = 14.215 BTC [-] [03:55]
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mircea_popescu 'the irish maidens have not lost their virtue; they merely misplaced it by an inch.' << does this mean they imagine purity is about keeping their asshole undeflowered, or does it mean their hymen is now wrapped around their uterine head ? [03:56]
BlueMeanie4 it's like a 'mini fact' [03:56]
ThickAsThieves it's not [03:56]
nubbins` it's not! [03:56]
ThickAsThieves thats the point here [03:56]
* nubbins` gestures emphatically at screen [03:56]
BlueMeanie4 something neither provable nor disprovable, but simply annoying enough to be worthy of printing [03:56]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 don't feed the trolloids. [03:56]
nubbins` factlet [03:56]
BlueMeanie4 ya [03:56]
BlueMeanie4 factoids are to fact what pizza rolls are to pizza [03:57]
mircea_popescu pizzoid. [03:57]
BlueMeanie4 they are not quite facts, but similar and have related qualities and are a diminished form of such [03:57]
nubbins` hechito [03:57]
mircea_popescu i wonder if there's a fetish where the guy wants to eat out girls that have priorly masturbated with pizza rolls [03:57]
mircea_popescu for the delicious cheezy flavour. [03:57]
nubbins` pizza rolls! [03:58]
mircea_popescu The Asteroid Monsteroid! [03:58]
mircea_popescu Coming soon! At a cinema near you! [03:58]
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nubbins` hemorrhoid [03:59]
* nubbins` blinks, considers [03:59]
mircea_popescu yea, it's a diminished hemohorror. [03:59]
nubbins` hemohorror, for when hemorrhaging scares you [04:00]
nubbins` (most of the time) [04:00]
mircea_popescu meanwhile at the trilema ranch of feminist pain, http://trilema.com/2014/how-i-was-wrong-cuckolding-or-a-story-about-sigmas/#comment-106375 [04:00]
assbot How I was wrong : Cuckolding, or a story about sigmas pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [04:00]
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BlueMeanie4 so what exactly is going on in crypto these days? [04:01]
BlueMeanie4 seems everything is lame as hell [04:01]
mircea_popescu that. [04:01]
asciilifeform why no one asks 'what is going on in metallurgy?' [04:02]
asciilifeform and does this mean 'everything lame as hell' ? [04:02]
nubbins` moriarty, dat unsolicited pm [04:02]
BlueMeanie4 i dont know im just not excited about anything i see [04:02]
asciilifeform must something 'go on' at all times? [04:02]
BlueMeanie4 not really no [04:03]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you too ? [04:03]
BlueMeanie4 just thought id poll this IRC [04:03]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust moriarty [04:03]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user moriarty: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=moriarty | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moriarty | Rated since: never [04:03]
asciilifeform i think we all got sp4mz0r3d [04:03]
nubbins` yeah, ##econometroid or something [04:03]
mircea_popescu idiots. well, ignore exists for a reason i guess. [04:03]
moriarty!*@* added to ignore list. [04:04]
nubbins` BlueMeanie4: the rich get richer, the rubes get ruber [04:04]
nubbins` same old [04:04]
BlueMeanie4 there must be some options [04:05]
asciilifeform im just not excited about anything i see << constant state of excitement is a medical condition, doctors say 'priapism' and it is curable. be glad you aren't 'excited' at all times. [04:05]
nubbins` always [04:05]
mircea_popescu lol why so mean. [04:06]
nubbins` there are never no options [04:06]
mircea_popescu HE's supposed to be the meanie here. [04:06]
nubbins` oh shit [04:06]
asciilifeform lol [04:06]
nubbins` TOMORROW is opposite day [04:06]
BlueMeanie4 im actually not that mean [04:06]
nubbins` sorry guise D: [04:06]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you ain't black enough yo. if you were you'd have not got no options. [04:06]
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mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 why not ? are you like a loser or something ? [04:06]
asciilifeform some people only get options 'abort, retry, fail' [04:07]
BlueMeanie4 the mean shall inherit the earth [04:07]
mircea_popescu i think that was "the average" not "the mean" [04:07]
nubbins` ooh, 2x snare 1x crash [04:07]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 anyway, nothing is happening in crypto since altcoin killed everything. [04:08]
thestringpuller hanbot: was that a goodfella's reference? [04:08]
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mircea_popescu http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/seal-steals-fish-fisherman-boat-1382810646V.gif <<< ahahaha epic. [04:09]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4: so how do buy options/futures? << probably your best bet atm is otc. get in the wot, identify a trustworthy cp, sign a contract. [04:10]
BlueMeanie4 we can build a real p2p financial instruments tool [04:11]
mircea_popescu we can't, because a) you're not in the wot so no we, and b) we already have. [04:11]
BlueMeanie4 ok i guess it would be fair to give your platform a real vetting [04:12]
* mircea_popescu digs up wherever he said that something can either be decentralized or systematic, not both. [04:12]
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BlueMeanie4 i think IRC might be limited in key ways for this purpose [04:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/in-which-we-discuss-datskovskiys-discussion-of-mpex << here i think [04:13]
assbot In which we discuss Datskovskiy’s discussion of MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [04:13]
BlueMeanie4 also you need to have securitization features [04:13]
mircea_popescu !up jborkl [04:13]
-assbot- You voiced jborkl for 30 minutes. [04:13]
* assbot gives voice to jborkl [04:14]
BlueMeanie4 is assbot a person or a robot? [04:14]
mircea_popescu ;;google gpg contracts [04:14]
gribble GPG Contracts – Adler Vermillion, LLP: ; GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; GPG Contracts - Satoshi Nakamoto Institute: [04:14]
jborkl http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ebay-owned-mobile-currency-company-thinking-about-accepting-bitcoin-180952457/#AzpTZcCVBOjH4vQz.16 [04:14]
assbot History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian [04:14]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 ever read that one ? [04:14]
jborkl Deep ++ [04:14]
jborkl Derp [04:14]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually i was thinking of http://trilema.com/2012/gpg-contracts/#comment-102651 [04:15]
mircea_popescu !up BlueMeanie4 [04:15]
assbot GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [04:15]
-assbot- You voiced BlueMeanie4 for 30 minutes. [04:15]
* assbot gives voice to BlueMeanie4 [04:15]
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BlueMeanie4 and the first contracts were probably marriage contracts [04:18]
mircea_popescu not probably, they actually were. [04:18]
thestringpuller now i can get fat [04:19]
BlueMeanie4 ha [04:19]
BlueMeanie4 its a good essay [04:21]
mircea_popescu so there you go. the wot is your tool. [04:21]
BlueMeanie4 im gonna crack it open on monday [04:23]
BlueMeanie4 hopefully you guys will be around here then [04:23]
mircea_popescu been around for years, what's another weekend. [04:23]
mircea_popescu everything else went to shit, satoshi, mtgox, all the previous things that "were" bitcoin. we're still here. [04:23]
BlueMeanie4 ya i knew a bit about you [04:24]
BlueMeanie4 even mentioned you on some listervs [04:24]
BlueMeanie4 WOT that is [04:24]
nubbins` BlueMeanie4 what kinda options/futures you looking to buy [04:27]
BlueMeanie4 well want to know how the controls work [04:28]
BlueMeanie4 this is part of the problem, MARKETING is the big challenge for these sorts of instruments [04:28]
mircea_popescu nubbins` it's actually one of the best ways to get in the wot, fully paid future delivery contracts with someone already in. should be safe enough if dealing with a heavyweight for both parties. [04:28]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 no it's not. they aren't for the mass market. [04:28]
mircea_popescu whenever the random idiot gets involved across the board, the economy goes to shit. [04:28]
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BlueMeanie4 actually our economic crisis was blamed on a sort of security [04:29]
mircea_popescu someone wants to cast a vote in the wonderous world of finance, he'd better demonstrate either intelligence or the ability to retain counsel. [04:29]
BlueMeanie4 and there are MASSIVE outstanding instruments that most believe will collapse [04:29]
mircea_popescu you don't say. [04:29]
BlueMeanie4 well part of the problem here is how to catalog the *offerings* for these instrumetns so I can easily invest or market them [04:30]
BlueMeanie4 example I want to make a bond for my business [04:30]
BlueMeanie4 but no one knows what my business does [04:30]
BlueMeanie4 but there are investors out there who might want to invest in my CLASS of credit [04:30]
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BlueMeanie4 this is how mortgage financing works [04:31]
BlueMeanie4 the bankers no longer know who you are [04:31]
BlueMeanie4 but they know what class of credit you are in [04:31]
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BlueMeanie4 so this approach greatly increases liquidity [04:32]
jborkl Mircea, if I need credit for the next 3 days will my WOT suffice? [04:32]
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BlueMeanie4 well you WOT is one-dimensional. say you were to describe what the credit is FOR, ie. you want to finance a software project. then your market opens up, there are investors out there who invest in such things. [04:34]
BlueMeanie4 also collateralized contracts are very useful [04:35]
mircea_popescu jborkl depends how much. [04:36]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 i don't think you understand hw it works. [04:36]
mircea_popescu ;;google how the wot works [04:36]
gribble Why WOT works | WOT (Web of Trust): ; How WOT ratings work | Help Center | WOT (Web of Trust): ; Frequently Asked Questions | World of Tanks: [04:36]
mircea_popescu shame on you google. [04:36]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ [04:37]
assbot What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [04:37]
mircea_popescu ;;google what the wot is for [04:37]
gribble What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un ...: ; World of Tanks official forum: ; WoT 9.x Guide for Better FPS/Graphic Optimization 3.0 - Support ...: [04:37]
mircea_popescu sorry google, i take it back. my bad. [04:37]
jborkl World of tanks heh [04:37]
BlueMeanie4 im familiar with it [04:37]
mircea_popescu so then what exactly do you mean by "one dimensional" [04:37]
mircea_popescu it's infinitely dimensional. [04:37]
BlueMeanie4 the point is that different classes of credit are valuable to different classes of people [04:37]
mircea_popescu exactly. [04:37]
BlueMeanie4 well WOT measures value by the person, not the type of credit this person is marketing [04:38]
mircea_popescu ... [04:38]
mircea_popescu that made no sense. try again ? [04:38]
BlueMeanie4 heres an example [04:38]
BlueMeanie4 i make two mortgages [04:38]
BlueMeanie4 one for palo alto and one for ferguson [04:38]
BlueMeanie4 made by the same person [04:39]
BlueMeanie4 are they both worth the same? [04:39]
mircea_popescu ... [04:39]
mircea_popescu "i order a dildo and a box of cookies in the same shop. are they worth the same ?" [04:39]
mircea_popescu that's the wrong question. is it equally likely the store will deliver my order is the right question. [04:39]
BlueMeanie4 thats a fairly specious and somewhat annoying response [04:39]
mircea_popescu and yes, i would say that they are equally likely to be delivered. [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 point is [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 yes i would buy one mortgage risk and not the other [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 these are facts of financial markets [04:40]
mircea_popescu but for no reasons to do with the actual risk. [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 try to get car insurance in detroit [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 and see what happens [04:40]
mircea_popescu strictly for reasons to do with what you're buying. [04:40]
mircea_popescu it's nonsense to claim they're the same things but with different risks,. [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 right i want to knwo what im buying [04:40]
mircea_popescu they're actually different things. [04:40]
BlueMeanie4 WOT only looks at the person issueing and while this isn't useless, it is possible to make much better systems [04:41]
mircea_popescu ok, so what you're buying is between you and your cp. [04:41]
BlueMeanie4 true [04:41]
mircea_popescu no, wot only looks at how likely it is for your cp to lie to you. [04:41]
BlueMeanie4 but its EASIER to market it if i can catalogue by risk class [04:41]
mircea_popescu but the reason you can't is because that's a fucktarded system made by lazy apes that doesn't work [04:41]
mircea_popescu which is why you're here, and which is why i'm not on ws. [04:41]
BlueMeanie4 youve got the basic contract mechanism, now you need securitizatino tools [04:41]
mircea_popescu because your system sucks. [04:41]
mircea_popescu the wot is the securization tool. [04:42]
BlueMeanie4 no you dont understand meaning of 'securitization' [04:42]
BlueMeanie4 it doesnt mean making securities per se [04:42]
BlueMeanie4 it means turning risk into a monetized resource [04:42]
mircea_popescu i do. the problem is that you'd like for shorthand that's accepted in an old, meanwhile abandoned system to work unioversally. [04:42]
mircea_popescu it doesn't work universally. [04:42]
mircea_popescu you'll have to learn new shorthand. [04:42]
mircea_popescu same principles, of course, but changes the engineer's life entirely. [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 i can write a contract lets say a futures contract right? [04:43]
mircea_popescu sure. [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 pretty simple [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 i give you 10 beans on christmas day 2015 [04:43]
mircea_popescu okay. [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 but can i resell that risk? [04:43]
mircea_popescu sure. [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 how [04:43]
mircea_popescu by... reselling it. making a new contract. [04:43]
BlueMeanie4 no thats not exactly the same [04:43]
mircea_popescu hell, the ether future contract specifically said it will allow assignment even. [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 because the VALUE of that RISK doesnt float on the market [04:44]
mircea_popescu no, it's not exactly the same. hence the comment above about shorthands, [04:44]
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* heat is now known as b00lcrap [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 in modern markets [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 i can make that futures contract [04:44]
mircea_popescu your modern markets failed. [04:44]
mircea_popescu which is why we're here. [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 and the default collateral i can put on the market [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 and it can change hands [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 its very powerufl [04:44]
* assbot removes voice from jborkl [04:44]
BlueMeanie4 generates massive amounts of wealht [04:44]
mircea_popescu hey, you wanna stick to doing it that way by all means. [04:44]
mircea_popescu go ahead. it ain't happening here, and it won't survive the decade. [04:45]
BlueMeanie4 while thats a valid point, i dont think they failed BECAUSE of securitization altough these new methods did destablize [04:45]
BlueMeanie4 they are not inherently destructive [04:45]
* assbot removes voice from BlueMeanie4 [04:45]
mircea_popescu the argument as presented is purely semantical. [04:45]
* assbot gives voice to b00lcrap [04:45]
b00lcrap hi [04:46]
mircea_popescu they didn't fail because of securitization directly, but nevertheless they will fail unavoidably for reasons rooted in why that particular kind of securitization works that particular way. [04:46]
mircea_popescu ello b00lcrap [04:46]
b00lcrap hey good day sir [04:46]
b00lcrap im asciilifeforms co worker [04:46]
b00lcrap i dont think we have officially met. [04:46]
mircea_popescu how goes at stan's co-work ? [04:47]
b00lcrap well they tell me its a sinking shit [04:47]
mircea_popescu !up BlueMeanie4 [04:47]
-assbot- You voiced BlueMeanie4 for 30 minutes. [04:47]
* assbot gives voice to BlueMeanie4 [04:47]
b00lcrap but we have all just been upgrade to first class. [04:47]
nubbins` i like that phrase [04:47]
b00lcrap oh [04:47]
nubbins` it's much better when your shit floats [04:47]
b00lcrap sinking ship [04:47]
b00lcrap lol [04:47]
nubbins` no, the first one was better :D [04:47]
mircea_popescu b00lcrap lol what do you do, asm ? [04:47]
b00lcrap yeah [04:47]
b00lcrap asm [04:47]
b00lcrap windows malware [04:47]
mircea_popescu well, get in the wot, im sure you won't sink here. [04:47]
b00lcrap some vuln dev [04:47]
BlueMeanie4 theres nothing wrong with securitization, it's just like debt based money- a school of morons believes it is evil by some undefined ethos [04:48]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 the ethos is quite well defined. [04:48]
mircea_popescu ;;google the problem of too much money [04:48]
gribble Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: ; Why Too Much Money Is Bad for a Startup | Inc.com: ; 'If I Think About My Money Problems Too Much, I'll Miss My Babies ...: (1 more message) [04:48]
mircea_popescu OMFG GOOGLE! [04:48]
BlueMeanie4 every working currency we have is debt backed [04:48]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/ << there you go. [04:48]
assbot The problem of too much money pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [04:48]
mircea_popescu no. bitcoin is not debt backed. every dysfunctional currency is debt backed. [04:48]
b00lcrap well that is reassuring. cuz i have many hungry mouths to feed [04:49]
mircea_popescu b00lcrap srsly ? how many is many ? [04:49]
BlueMeanie4 i guess you get to be right until bitcoin fails? [04:49]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 exactly. [04:49]
b00lcrap 3 [04:49]
b00lcrap + me [04:49]
b00lcrap maybe thats not that many [04:49]
mircea_popescu b00lcrap 3 bits... [04:49]
BlueMeanie4 debt is the basic thing that gives money substance [04:49]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 this is like saying vishnu is the basic thing giving the world movement. [04:50]
mircea_popescu sure, if you're pre-colonialism indian. [04:50]
BlueMeanie4 no it isn't - quite the opposite using gold or other commodities for money were a feature of primitive societies- you seem to have it backward [04:50]
mircea_popescu hey, what can i tell you. [04:50]
mircea_popescu don't confuse historical accident with meaning. [04:51]
BlueMeanie4 it goes from [04:51]
BlueMeanie4 barter [04:51]
BlueMeanie4 to commodity notes [04:51]
BlueMeanie4 to debt notes [04:51]
mircea_popescu that's how it goes in the book your learned on. this is called didacticism : the sad habit of people to recreate history in terms of their preferred systematic approach. [04:51]
mircea_popescu otherwise, debt notes are older than coins, have been in use in china since forever. [04:52]
BlueMeanie4 this sophistry doesnt work on me. its pretty simple really. if i hold a note that says YOU OWE ME TWENTY EGGS [04:52]
BlueMeanie4 this is worth something right? [04:52]
mircea_popescu depends who i am and what eggs are. [04:52]
BlueMeanie4 its worth at least 20 eggs in the future [04:52]
mircea_popescu plenty of people hold... pirate debt [04:52]
BlueMeanie4 or rather at most 20 eggs [04:52]
mircea_popescu which they bought because they think like you, in spite of me telling them not to. [04:52]
ThickAsThieves goxcoins [04:52]
BlueMeanie4 right so the margin between the actual eggs and my risk of actually getting them is what is the value of the note [04:53]
mircea_popescu now, you're more welcome to get burned a few times if you won't listen and feel entitled to call things sophistry. [04:53]
BlueMeanie4 and thats the value of currency [04:53]
mircea_popescu no. [04:53]
BlueMeanie4 USDs are valuable because people, generally, think that the US govt will repay [04:53]
nubbins` fun story, was over at my folks' house this evening and my dad pulled out some old chartered bank notes [04:53]
mircea_popescu you are making a mistake jpm warned against. allow me to quote the old gentleman. [04:53]
mircea_popescu Untermyer: "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?" [04:54]
mircea_popescu Morgan: "No sir. The first thing is character." [04:54]
mircea_popescu Untermyer: "Before money or property?" [04:54]
mircea_popescu Morgan: "Before money or property or anything else. Money cannot buy it...because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom." [04:54]
nubbins` came across a Bank of Montreal $20 bill [04:54]
BlueMeanie4 ThickAsTheives- actually those kind of collection notes have a market [04:54]
mircea_popescu so no, it's not a thing equal to another thing, and they discount each other. [04:54]
mircea_popescu who i am and what eggs are comes before any numerical consideration of value. [04:54]
BlueMeanie4 a 20 egg note is not worth 20 eggs, yes, it's up to the debtor to MAKE them worth 20 eggs. see how this works? [04:54]
mircea_popescu i see how you think it works. [04:55]
mircea_popescu but it doth not work that way, mostly. [04:55]
BlueMeanie4 well i dont really bear the burden of proof, these are facts of financial markets as they exist [04:55]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. [04:55]
mircea_popescu how much are us gold backed debentures, worth cca 1931 ? [04:55]
mircea_popescu "this paper will pay 1000 oz of pure gold" [04:55]
BlueMeanie4 when did we issue those? [04:56]
nubbins` OH NO IT WON'T [04:56]
mircea_popescu yes well. [04:56]
BlueMeanie4 we had silver certs for a while [04:56]
BlueMeanie4 i have a few actually [04:56]
mircea_popescu so look : you can sit in a car, and derive from the experiene of sitting there some idea as to how the car works. [04:56]
mircea_popescu this is fine, but it's a little silly to push that argument of familiarity too far. [04:57]
mircea_popescu these "financial markets" aren't a single thing, and they only work as you describe them when they don't actually work. [04:57]
BlueMeanie4 i find it unfortunate that so many are bogged down with these voodoo economic ideas when they should be building better machinery to deliver real functions [04:58]
mircea_popescu well, to round the circle : i find it unfortunate that so many otherwise intelligent fellows are so fixated on their various habituations that they refuse to adapt and become useful for the future. [04:58]
BlueMeanie4 ok but i fail to see any operable ideas here [04:59]
BlueMeanie4 just suggestions that our current system is flawed in some way [04:59]
mircea_popescu but one point is important : the world you know has failed. this will require a pound of flesh out of everyone involved. whether it comes in the form of the intellectual humiliation where you say "we were wrong and the actual voodoo people at the table" and move on, or the actual physical humiliation that goes with being on the defeated side... [05:00]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 well you gotta read to see the operable ideas. [05:00]
BlueMeanie4 the basic laws of math and economics have not failed nor have they been altered [05:00]
mircea_popescu they have not. just, you never used any math and you never had much to say about economics. [05:01]
mircea_popescu and by you i mostly don't mean you personally. [05:01]
X-Rob mircea_popescu: Power issues. Will be off for possibly a couple more hours. Will pro-rata a discount at current estimated [05:02]
X-Rob ;;genrate 1700000 [05:02]
gribble The expected generation output, at 1700000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 23844670038.8, is 0.0358545988072 BTC per day and 0.00149394161697 BTC per hour. [05:02]
X-Rob say 0.002/btc/hour [05:02]
mircea_popescu X-Rob what happened anyway ? power station blew up ? [05:02]
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mircea_popescu lol hanbot so what's your score ? [05:05]
ThickAsThieves i was gonna say "true" [05:06]
BlueMeanie4 TAT- so before you say goxcoins [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 people market those kind of collection notes all the time [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 say you had a million dollars in outstanding collections [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 and I was a collectoins auditor [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 i buy them for 200k [05:08]
mircea_popescu :) [05:08]
ThickAsThieves in that case it is the flavor of the product [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 and manage to collect 400k [05:08]
BlueMeanie4 WIN [05:08]
mircea_popescu funny part being i said this exactly. [05:09]
X-Rob mircea_popescu: no, that 1700 is actually at my house [05:09]
BlueMeanie4 you system as far as i udnerstand it does not allwo for the transfer of obligations [05:09]
X-Rob and I have a nice smokey looking circuit breaker [05:09]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 that'd be because you got some ideas you're trying to fit to observed reality [05:09]
mircea_popescu try the other approach. [05:09]
X-Rob So I'm digging a trench to bypass it [05:09]
mircea_popescu X-Rob and enjoiny every inch of the process i bet :D [05:10]
BlueMeanie4 no, im explaining real tangible facts of how finance markets work [05:10]
mircea_popescu same thing, really. [05:10]
mircea_popescu how financial markets used to work pre bitcoin is purely of academic interest [05:10]
ThickAsThieves one thing i know about finance markets, it's no one really gets to say how they work [05:10]
mircea_popescu kinda like we care about how the iroquis "state capitol" used to work. [05:10]
BlueMeanie4 A Brave New World [05:10]
BlueMeanie4 ? [05:12]
BlueMeanie4 are we about to go into tour de force of rousseuian noble savage theory [05:12]
mircea_popescu go right ahead. [05:13]
mircea_popescu nubbins` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT2JkKLjNSw [05:13]
assbot The Frogs - I'm Sad The Goat Just Died Today - YouTube [05:13]
BlueMeanie4 what do the Iroquois have to do with this [05:13]
mircea_popescu gonna sign them ? [05:13]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 pretend you're some exponent of the iroquis. everything you said works just as well. [05:14]
mircea_popescu "real tangible facts of how political systems work" indeed. [05:14]
BlueMeanie4 ok? [05:14]
mircea_popescu nobody here gives a shit, and unless you change your mind you'll be force-marrying some english speaking brute. [05:14]
mircea_popescu this isn't like... o hey, bitcoin is trying to persuade the old order. [05:15]
ThickAsThieves bluemean4 representin Team Marketoids v. mircea_popescu with Team Perfect Economoids. Fight! [05:15]
mircea_popescu this is like, bitcoin will fuck it up the ass with a steel girder and everyone has a short and vanishing opportunity to change sides. [05:15]
mircea_popescu quickly and well. ie, convincingly. [05:15]
BlueMeanie4 some of these bitcoin people are reminiscint of the french revolution. for a few weeks they thought they could completely redesign the whole universe. I believe they wanted to change the number of days in a week. [05:16]
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BlueMeanie4 this few weeks was written about with horror by most who lived through it [05:16]
mircea_popescu for sure. and that's nothing compared. [05:16]
mircea_popescu quite an apt comparison, actually. [05:17]
* assbot removes voice from BlueMeanie4 [05:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1866 @ 0.0006346 = 1.1842 BTC [-] [05:17]
mircea_popescu !up BlueMeanie4 [05:17]
-assbot- You voiced BlueMeanie4 for 30 minutes. [05:17]
* assbot gives voice to BlueMeanie4 [05:17]
mircea_popescu the funny part being, of course, that they actually DID redesign the whole universe, and everything you imagine was always fixed and the case was purely and shamelessly invented then. then history rewritten to support this inane theory. [05:19]
mircea_popescu we happen to be here to reverse all of it and more, but it's irrelevant which way it goes really. obviously the cock going in hurts about as much as it hurts going out, so to speak. [05:20]
BlueMeanie4 im assuming youre being facetious [05:20]
mircea_popescu in that assumption you'd be wrong. [05:20]
BlueMeanie4 well for as long as you lack the features i describe, these contracts will have a very limited market [05:21]
nubbins` mp sick tunes [05:21]
mircea_popescu maximizing the market is not a valid goal of economics any more than maximizing body weight is not a valid goal of medicine. [05:22]
mircea_popescu you're maybe thinking industrial veterinarian. [05:22]
mircea_popescu different story. [05:22]
mircea_popescu the point is for the market to be meaningful not large. [05:22]
BlueMeanie4 economics literally means 'efficiency' [05:22]
mircea_popescu in the sense laundromat literally means laundry robot. [05:23]
nubbins` home ec [05:23]
BlueMeanie4 from Greek oikonomia "household management, thrift," [05:23]
mircea_popescu the thrift is actually the historical point here. economy started its life as an attempt to waste less. [05:24]
BlueMeanie4 well if i want to say take out a put or o call [05:24]
BlueMeanie4 i want the best price [05:24]
BlueMeanie4 and how will i get the best price [05:24]
mircea_popescu your focus on the price to the detriment of the more important considerations is, again, what sunk the system you grew up with. [05:24]
nubbins` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9lzL14S9GU [05:25]
assbot Grandma's Sitting in the Corner With a Penis in Her Hand Going "No, No, No, No, No" - The Frogs - YouTube [05:25]
mircea_popescu that's how you ended up with "books" being the shittiest thing people will still take as a book, in a neat little package [05:25]
mircea_popescu and with otherwise-flavoured fanta sold as beer [05:25]
mircea_popescu and so on, [05:25]
BlueMeanie4 this seems to be a tactic you use to avoid addressing either your lack of information on a subject or you willingness to accept various facts [05:25]
mircea_popescu it's not a pretty place to live in. even if you do have the ever present, ever oversold hope you will somehow "create immense value" and run off to live in argentina. [05:25]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 what's "this" ? [05:26]
BlueMeanie4 you cant just wave away ideas by saying 'thats old world' [05:26]
mircea_popescu course i can. i can do anything i want. [05:26]
BlueMeanie4 well sure [05:26]
nubbins` "i want the best price" is why all the painted lines are worn off the road here two months after they gets sprayed on. [05:26]
BlueMeanie4 but you look like a cult leader [05:26]
BlueMeanie4 or at least aspiring to be one [05:26]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 if i cared what i looked like i'd actually be a cult leader. [05:26]
mircea_popescu as it is, i'm content to merely look like one. [05:26]
BlueMeanie4 ok. [05:27]
nubbins` "i want the best price" is why there are five wal-marts in my city of 100k people [05:27]
mircea_popescu auctoritas. it's a thing. [05:27]
BlueMeanie4 nubbins you dont want the best price? [05:27]
nubbins` "i want the best price" is the reason why tim horton's is the number one coffee chain in canada [05:27]
mircea_popescu it ruled an empire, and it was the way to rule an empire, before the very successful french revolution reorganised your mental space for you. [05:27]
nubbins` BlueMeanie4: of course not. [05:27]
BlueMeanie4 ha [05:27]
nubbins` i want the best /value/. [05:27]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 he sells expensive artwork and shit. not a very good angle there. [05:28]
BlueMeanie4 thats what the anti-walmartians argument boils down to. they lack the terms to describe what is bothering them, so instead they are stuck paying for overpriced stuff from 'local' people [05:28]
nubbins` "i want the best price" as you head to the dollar store to buy the fifth set of pliers [05:28]
nubbins` BlueMeanie4 the point flew about six feet above your head [05:28]
mircea_popescu o brother will you have fun here. [05:29]
mircea_popescu i just hope your nerves hold. [05:29]
BlueMeanie4 ok so you dont want marketable financial contracts [05:29]
BlueMeanie4 go tit [05:29]
mircea_popescu not at all. [05:29]
ThickAsThieves i want the "right" price [05:29]
mircea_popescu can you like, not make so many strawmen ?! [05:29]
nubbins` <+BlueMeanie4> thats what the anti-walmartians argument boils down to. they lack the terms to describe what is bothering them, so instead they are stuck paying for overpriced stuff from 'local' people <<< unadulterated gibberish, contains no information [05:29]
mircea_popescu it's fine for them to be marketable, provided they're financial contracts. [05:29]
nubbins` ThickAsThieves not bad [05:29]
mircea_popescu not the cheapo, dysfunctional ersatz the "financial markets" currently use. [05:30]
mircea_popescu every now and again a smarmy da walks into a smart judge's chambers with something about "a standard deal" and the judge tells him there's no such thing as "standard deals" [05:30]
BlueMeanie4 i think there was a degrade in quality for some of these [05:30]
mircea_popescu that's an important point for the da to digest, in his personal evolution from smarmy to useful. [05:30]
BlueMeanie4 i live in a area that was heavily financed by these MBA mortgages [05:30]
mircea_popescu no, there wasn't "a degrade of quality". [05:30]
mircea_popescu just, some shit splurged out of the package. [05:31]
mircea_popescu the package OF SHIT, mind you. [05:31]
BlueMeanie4 its not securitization [05:31]
BlueMeanie4 heres basically what happened [05:31]
BlueMeanie4 they developed these things not very long ago, you might say 198-something maybe they began? [05:31]
mircea_popescu bonus points if you mention "gaussian copulas" being calculated in excel spreadsheets by monkeys. [05:31]
BlueMeanie4 prior to that futures and options were only for commodiites [05:31]
BlueMeanie4 so most didnt know what they were [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 but what they did see where amazing gains [05:32]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 and these gains were rationally derived mostly [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 but then [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 people got out of hand with it [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 its like bitcoin [05:32]
mircea_popescu ;;echo gives assbot a cookie. [05:32]
gribble gives assbot a cookie. [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 it worked, then the altcoin fuckfaces came in and pissed in the pool [05:32]
ThickAsThieves rationally derived gains [05:32]
mircea_popescu that's not really what happened, but anyway. [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 sure it is [05:32]
BlueMeanie4 take the MBAs [05:33]
nubbins` BlueMeanie4: i take raw materials, add value to them, sell them. great, now i've got $x. i can put $x in the hands of walmart and buy 1kg of coffee, or i can put $x in the hands of a business owned by someone who lives here and buy 0.75kg of coffee. sure, with the first option i've got 0.25kg extra coffee, but my city has $(x-y) fewer dollars, where y is an almost-negligible sum. [05:33]
BlueMeanie4 prior to the invention of such, mortgages were very hard to get [05:33]
nubbins` how's this hard to understand? :/ [05:33]
mircea_popescu what happened is that clinton decided niggers will become whites if they get free houses. they drew up legislation to implement this nonsense. [05:33]
mircea_popescu the banks noticed hey, free money! [05:33]
ThickAsThieves shouldnt morgages be hard to get? [05:33]
mircea_popescu two decades later, the whole thing's ruined, as it will never get out of an ever increasing black hole of moral hazard [05:33]
BlueMeanie4 TAT: technically no [05:33]
ThickAsThieves depends on your reputation [05:33]
BlueMeanie4 Mircea, thats not accurate [05:34]
BlueMeanie4 youre taking the gonzo highly critical anti-view [05:34]
mircea_popescu well we all got our stories as to "what really happened". i was merely illustrating the vastness of that area. [05:34]
BlueMeanie4 if i were a mortgage investors [05:35]
BlueMeanie4 i might choose to look at any criteria i want [05:35]
mircea_popescu but regardless of what really happened : there's no way forward. it died, and that's that. bury it and move on, you ain't fixing the corpse. [05:35]
BlueMeanie4 maybe i personally know that lets say romania is a great investment [05:35]
nubbins` sure, and hotels in paris give themselves star-ratings based on the size of the lobby [05:35]
BlueMeanie4 thus I buy undervalued credit risk [05:35]
BlueMeanie4 for romanian mortgages [05:35]
mircea_popescu how would you "personally know". is this stock picking on steroids ? [05:35]
nubbins` this is the day of the unsolicited pm [05:36]
BlueMeanie4 maybe you know someething about it [05:36]
BlueMeanie4 thats how investing works [05:36]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 like what ? like say, omg! like say you stop thinking in terms of "romania" wqhich doesn't exist anyway, and you oinly use because you gotta use something, [05:36]
mircea_popescu and instead traverse the fucking wot according to some criteria that make sense to you and invest accordingly, IN PEOPLE ? [05:36]
mircea_popescu whoa! [05:36]
BlueMeanie4 ok lets say you think chicago is a horrible investment [05:36]
BlueMeanie4 and the property is overvalued [05:36]
mircea_popescu jus' wont let go huh. [05:37]
BlueMeanie4 so you can short the underlying credit devices for the mortgages in chicago [05:37]
mircea_popescu wtf is "chicago" ? [05:37]
nubbins` i think it's some sort of bond [05:37]
BlueMeanie4 and then the price to take out a mortgage for people in chicago goes up [05:37]
nubbins` wait, not bond, band [05:37]
ThickAsThieves <+nubbins`> this is the day of the unsolicited pm /// usagi is back. coincidence? [05:37]
mircea_popescu man. suppose you're the sort of klutz that thinks "chicago is cool". i then knowing you think this sell you a house in "chicago" fgor a price twhich reflects your expectation, but in a location that satisfies my cost structure. [05:37]
mircea_popescu and then we quibble about whether "it was really in chicago" [05:37]
nubbins` ThickAsThieves actually now that you mention it, he was pm'ing me asking for voice earlier when i was afk [05:38]
mircea_popescu well no, it wasn't, because "chicago" as such dun exist. [05:38]
nubbins` no true chicagoan [05:38]
nubbins` !up TheInterocitor [05:38]
* assbot gives voice to TheInterocitor [05:38]
BlueMeanie4 no idea what youre talking about but the idea here is to give people more control and choice over where there money goes [05:39]
TheInterocitor ty [05:39]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i think he pm'd everyone after being devoiced after being all territorial for some god-forsaken reason. [05:39]
mircea_popescu so who're you TheInterocitor ? [05:40]
nubbins` terri... why? [05:40]
BlueMeanie4 if they want to juice up credit markets in chicago, they can [05:40]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 if they can they must. [05:40]
BlueMeanie4 currently the way the markets work are very elitist, [05:40]
ThickAsThieves usagi is just mad that his tongue is poisoned with nonsense [05:40]
BlueMeanie4 there are no choices really [05:40]
TheInterocitor mircea_popescu: formerly RooK we met a few weeks back [05:40]
mircea_popescu aha. [05:40]
TheInterocitor I read logs here religiously [05:40]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 yes, there are. really. [05:40]
BlueMeanie4 can you buy your friends mortgage? [05:41]
mircea_popescu sure. [05:41]
BlueMeanie4 really? [05:41]
BlueMeanie4 show me how [05:41]
mircea_popescu what's to keep me ? [05:41]
mircea_popescu i sign a gpg contract with him. case closed. [05:41]
BlueMeanie4 oh you can make a private deal [05:41]
BlueMeanie4 but capital requirements are large [05:41]
mircea_popescu all deals are private deals. [05:41]
BlueMeanie4 you need to have entire principal in hand [05:41]
nubbins` what other type of de... ah, too slow [05:41]
TheInterocitor As they should be [05:41]
mircea_popescu lol [05:41]
mircea_popescu BlueMeanie4 why should poor people have something to say about property and the dispositon thereof ? [05:42]
BlueMeanie4 actually what im advocating benefits poor people [05:42]
nubbins` surely you're not suggesting that one should have enough money to purchase the thing one is purchasing [05:42]
mircea_popescu let them say things about their business, making hamburgers or filling tyres or w/e it is. [05:42]
TheInterocitor Usually poor people that have no idea how to manage money ? [05:43]
BlueMeanie4 you dont seem to recognize the power in these sorts of liquid markets [05:43]
mircea_popescu you're right. i recognize there's no power there, just noise. [05:43]
BlueMeanie4 the first and primary benefit is much more capital available [05:43]
mircea_popescu bad capital. [05:43]
BlueMeanie4 how is capital 'bad'? [05:43]
ThickAsThieves a man can live on junk food [05:44]
mircea_popescu lemme tell you how. i build a number of businesses in btc that relied on not dealing with idiots. they're still here, and worth whatever hundred million. [05:44]
ThickAsThieves just not the same life [05:44]
mircea_popescu everyone else tried to build businesses out of allowing idiots in. they all failed [05:44]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves had first hand experience, among many others. [05:44]
mircea_popescu so... that way, bad capital. the money of idiots is not useful. [05:44]
ThickAsThieves good point, it was very much a junk food experience too [05:45]
nubbins` it's useful once you sever the connection between the idiot and the money [05:45]
TheInterocitor I trust ThickAsThieves, and Havelock ftw [05:45]
nubbins` if the idiot still has hooks in it, though.. [05:45]
mircea_popescu nubbins` yeah but that's called scamming. [05:45]
* nubbins` nods sagely [05:45]
nubbins` TheInterocitor you trust havelock? [05:45]
nubbins` why? [05:45]
ThickAsThieves age [05:45]
nubbins` ah. [05:45]
TheInterocitor Well havelock hasnt goxxed on me yet [05:45]
ThickAsThieves it's an SEO factor [05:45]
mircea_popescu i was thinking. "not scammed me yet" [05:45]
nubbins` TheInterocitor: sure they have. [05:46]
TheInterocitor ? [05:46]
nubbins` let's see: their website was an insecure piece of shit with massive security holes that literally allowed third parties to drain accounts -- UNTIL LAST SUMMER [05:46]
mircea_popescu but his didn't get drained. [05:46]
nubbins` they let funds delist whenever they please, converting "shares" into "we'll send you a slip of paper" [05:46]
TheInterocitor true [05:46]
mircea_popescu but it never happened to something he owned. [05:46]
TheInterocitor I was unaware of this [05:47]
ThickAsThieves the relist things the opertaors owners delist [05:47]
ThickAsThieves they* [05:47]
TheInterocitor not like I have a substantial amount there [05:47]
nubbins` they sign up the shittest funds in the universe and chew up all the listing fees to unspecified "expenses", ensuring the investorubes don't get any of it [05:47]
nubbins` etc etc [05:47]
ThickAsThieves basically you can fault havelock's quality, and there is where you can remove trust [05:47]
* assbot removes voice from BlueMeanie4 [05:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1450 @ 0.00063525 = 0.9211 BTC [+] [05:47]
mircea_popescu so im playing this tablet game. it has a slots implementation, giving some in game benefits. i turned 2k chips into 85150, and it will never end. [05:47]
mircea_popescu fucktards don't understand rngs. took me all of 30 seconds to figure it out, too. [05:48]
* mircea_popescu is pretty proud of himself atm. [05:48]
ThickAsThieves does it pay for realz? [05:48]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves well game coinz. [05:48]
ThickAsThieves word [05:48]
mircea_popescu ;;google dragon vs god [05:48]
TheInterocitor so I need to sell all my RENT shares I guess lol [05:48]
gribble Fairy Tail AMV - Dragon VS God Slayer - YouTube: ; [Fairy Tail AMV] Natsu vs Zancrow - Dragon vs God- Phenomenon ...: ; Fire Dragon vs. Flame God Ost - Extended - YouTube: [05:48]
nubbins` coming soon: S.THISTABLETGAME [05:48]
mircea_popescu there, if anyone wants to try and find the hole. [05:48]
ThickAsThieves and that was how the MPEx Tablet Game Guild Began [05:49]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i do shoot emails to the more promising publishers. [05:49]
ThickAsThieves damn you nub! [05:49]
ThickAsThieves you beta me [05:49]
mircea_popescu kinda the point of the entire exercise. [05:49]
nubbins` actually i alpha you [05:49]
nubbins` wait, no. [05:49]
ThickAsThieves same thing [05:49]
nubbins` i beta you. [05:49]
nubbins` yeah, i guess. [05:49]
mircea_popescu just go find a gramma you two. [05:50]
ThickAsThieves are there channels where people speak in code? [05:51]
TheInterocitor btw mircea_popescu I used one of your blog posts as a STFU in an argument the other day [05:51]
ThickAsThieves like Morse [05:51]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves yes. this one. [05:51]
mircea_popescu TheInterocitor did it work ? [05:51]
TheInterocitor http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies [05:51]
assbot The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as “cryptocurrencies” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [05:51]
TheInterocitor I think so [05:51]
mircea_popescu from what i hear from people trying such things, it rarely works in the sense of comprehension, but almost always works in the sense of making the op stfu. [05:52]
TheInterocitor It did, and I thank you tremendously [05:53]
mircea_popescu no bother. [05:53]
TheInterocitor There can be only one [05:53]
mircea_popescu in bitcoin ? you're kidding. there's been what, 6 or 7 jesuses ? at least 5 or so satoshis... [05:54]
mircea_popescu once you fix the coins to 21mn tops, everything else can exist in immoderate, endless supply [05:54]
TheInterocitor A fool and his money I suppose. Any money I make in alts just goes to btc. I have little interest in survival of them. [05:55]
ThickAsThieves what's the point in being ANTI-altcoins anyway [05:56]
ThickAsThieves i can see if you dont value them [05:56]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves ever seen a cat when something moves irregularly ? [05:56]
ThickAsThieves you saying humans have instinct?! [05:56]
mircea_popescu course they do. how do you think all the drunk conceptions happen. [05:57]
TheInterocitor xD [05:57]
ThickAsThieves my wife says everything is learned [05:57]
ThickAsThieves i say it's all the same shit [05:57]
ThickAsThieves whether i learned or my ancestor did, who cares [05:58]
mircea_popescu speaking oif such instinct. i dunno if you've ever had dogs, but they're beyond funny when virgin. because while the dog's instinct absolutely drives him to try and mount the bitch, the dog's brain itself doesn't comprehend wtf is happening [05:58]
mircea_popescu and so they usually look all confused. [05:58]
nubbins` "why am i fucking a pillow?" [05:58]
TheInterocitor Great analogy [05:58]
ThickAsThieves what would you define the instinct is of hating altcoins? fear of randomness? [05:59]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves exactly like the cat's reaction to "unapprovable movement" [05:59]
TheInterocitor No. They have nothing to offer that btc doesn't already do [06:00]
ThickAsThieves so you hate monopoly money too? [06:00]
* asciilifeform slept through b00lcrap's intro [06:00]
TheInterocitor moot [06:00]
asciilifeform yes he's in w0t [06:00]
asciilifeform give him w0rk [06:00]
mircea_popescu the cat is driven by an attempt to reduce the cognitive load. things that move impredictably draw its attention and require it to spend brainpower. better if they stop moving. [06:00]
mircea_popescu same exact thing here. monopoly money is not the same because it's not "in their space" [06:01]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust b00lcrap [06:01]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask b00lcrap!~heat@74-47-204-77.dsl1.chtw.wv.frontiernet.net. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user b00lcrap: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=b00lcrap | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=b00lcrap | Rated since: Thu Aug 21 15:29:25 2014 [06:01]
mircea_popescu ;;rate b00lcrap 1 CD 21 [06:01]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user b00lcrap has been recorded. [06:01]
ThickAsThieves ok but the cat is a predator, isnt its instinct to chase? [06:01]
mircea_popescu it's not a chasing predator. it lies in wait normally. [06:01]
ThickAsThieves my cats love chasing shit [06:02]
TheInterocitor Perception [06:02]
mircea_popescu maybe your cats are really doghorses. [06:02]
ThickAsThieves we keep the laser pointer in a drawer, [06:02]
ThickAsThieves they know the sound of it opening [06:02]
ThickAsThieves and come running [06:03]
mircea_popescu lmao [06:03]
ThickAsThieves i do this whistle pattern whenever i give them treats, if i do it long enough they get all riled up and start smacking others that get too close [06:03]
ThickAsThieves cats are so weird [06:04]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves i wonder if old married couples get that same way, guy hears the condom drawer screech and gets an errection. [06:04]
asciilifeform pagin herr pavlov. [06:04]
ThickAsThieves old married couple dont use comdoms [06:04]
ThickAsThieves :P [06:04]
mircea_popescu shit. [06:04]
mircea_popescu well maybe they're old married couples of sluts. [06:05]
mircea_popescu nah that doesn't work either [06:05]
ThickAsThieves lol [06:05]
mircea_popescu GOD DAMNIT [06:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: old married sluts << 'подводная лодка в степях украины погибла в неравном воздушном бою.' [06:05]
mircea_popescu lol [06:06]
mircea_popescu sounds tweetable. [06:06]
asciilifeform eminently. [06:06]
mircea_popescu подводная лодка в степях #украины погибла в неравном воздушном бою. [06:06]
asciilifeform or, for the inglischers, 'if ya don't believe this lie is true, ask the blind man, he saw it too' [06:07]
* BlueMeanie4 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [06:07]
mircea_popescu no, for the inglischers is, "this is how normal debates work and everyone on reddit agrees." [06:08]
nubbins` cats are more stalking predators [06:08]
nubbins` chasing is for fun [06:08]
mircea_popescu nubbins` in some places the crag cat is a real danger to human life [06:09]
mircea_popescu can drop on your head break your neck [06:09]
* assbot removes voice from TheInterocitor [06:09]
nubbins` !up TheInterocitor [06:09]
* assbot gives voice to TheInterocitor [06:09]
TheInterocitor reddit blows [06:10]
nubbins` formal logic course in uni with an ancient chinese prof: "all cats have four legs. /some/ cats dig my music." [06:10]
nubbins` poor guy couldn't even finish his statement over the laughter ;( [06:10]
asciilifeform ... socrates is mortal. [06:10]
nubbins` dem syllogisms [06:11]
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mircea_popescu silly logismoids, amirite [06:12]
mircea_popescu acrually that's a kickass album name. [06:12]
mircea_popescu tom cleese and tom jones could do it. [06:12]
asciilifeform 'silo'o'jizm' [06:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's more like country. [06:12]
asciilifeform lol [06:12]
nubbins` a man who eats meat wants to get his teeth into something; a man who does not eat meat wants to get his teeth into something else [06:12]
ThickAsThieves ;;ticker [06:13]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.35, Best ask: 503.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.62000, Last trade: 504.09, 24 hour volume: 8548.90926155, 24 hour low: 487.0, 24 hour high: 510.86, 24 hour vwap: 500.029882506 [06:13]
asciilifeform what's a crag cat? google spews forth prehistoric monsters [06:13]
mircea_popescu this will be forever known as the war of the 500s, [06:13]
ThickAsThieves it will be lost [06:13]
mircea_popescu or by the other side as "that desperate, harrowing last ditch effort" [06:14]
ThickAsThieves 400 is coming [06:14]
asciilifeform volkssturm. [06:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform cougars and cougarish types of housecats [06:14]
asciilifeform aha [06:14]
ThickAsThieves then 600 [06:14]
ThickAsThieves :) [06:14]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves is there a bitbet ? [06:14]
ThickAsThieves i dunno, i got enough riding [06:14]
asciilifeform if i recall, zoologists write that cougar behaves precisely how an enlarged housecat would [06:14]
mircea_popescu well it's pretty well related. [06:15]
asciilifeform so anyone who dreams of being eaten by housecat, come to usa. [06:15]
mircea_popescu lions and such are panthera, different type [06:15]
nubbins` or canada! [06:15]
nubbins` altho we call em something else [06:15]
asciilifeform and, afaik, all known experiments at cross-breeding felis have succeeded [06:15]
asciilifeform so house-cougar may exist. [06:15]
nubbins` http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years [06:16]
assbot This Guy's Eaten Nothing but Raw Meat for Five Years | VICE Canada [06:16]
ThickAsThieves there's def something going on in the chinese markets [06:16]
ThickAsThieves a repating pattern [06:16]
ThickAsThieves they recently intoduced futures and margin and stuff i think [06:17]
ThickAsThieves maybe taking noobs for a ride [06:17]
ThickAsThieves i dunno [06:17]
ThickAsThieves some US and Euro traders are moving to chinese exchanges too, but to me something stinks [06:22]
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mircea_popescu http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years << he;s probably from around here. [06:30]
assbot This Guy's Eaten Nothing but Raw Meat for Five Years | VICE Canada [06:30]
mircea_popescu i tell you... the veal they got these people... [06:30]
nubbins` heh [06:30]
nubbins` did you get to the part where he eats rotting chunks of lamb yet? [06:30]
mircea_popescu http://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/img/mempool/the-problem-with-altcoins/cargo-cult.jpg << pretty great pic [06:31]
nubbins` turns out jesus was a pilot who flew into a time warp [06:32]
nubbins` man, vice is like reality tv. not great but you end up getting stuck [06:33]
nubbins` http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/i-spent-an-afternoon-with-montreal-squeegee-punks-843 [06:33]
assbot I Spent an Afternoon with Montreal Squeegee Punks | VICE Canada [06:33]
nubbins` I asked Dirty Mark where he got the name from: “I dunno, probably because I’ve fucked a lot of bitches without condoms and I may shit my pants from time to time.” [06:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00063525 = 7.4324 BTC [+] {2} [06:43]
asciilifeform re: cat & laser: experiment. turn on a laser pointer in a dark room; look at the edges of the spot. take picture of same with camera. notice difference. [06:43]
asciilifeform some of what you see 'fuzz' around the edges is actually diffraction patterns that form in your own eye. [06:44]
asciilifeform conceivably, cat (with a rather differently structured eye) sees rather different ones. [06:44]
ThickAsThieves i have one laser with changeable cutouts [06:47]
ThickAsThieves butterfly shape, etc [06:47]
asciilifeform also diffraction gratings. but the diffraction above happens in your own eye. [06:48]
nubbins` i wondered [06:52]
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nubbins` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA [07:09]
assbot Star Trek TNG Ambient Engine Noise (Idling for 24 hrs) - YouTube [07:09]
nubbins` only 16h left [07:09]
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nubbins` http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/white-house-orders-review-of-police-militarization-programs-1.2745153 [07:13]
assbot White House orders review of police 'militarization' programs - World - CBC News [07:13]
nubbins` A REVIEW WILL SOLVE THIS PROBLEM [07:13]
nubbins` "white house orders review of civilian 'militarization' programs" [07:14]
mircea_popescu wait wut ? [07:16]
mircea_popescu "only da police may militarize BITCH" [07:17]
mircea_popescu http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pkUFRs9vaXA/TDrOfTIDkqI/AAAAAAAAyjI/lZ1kUx6B9kk/s1600/4756763833_ffb7ccc7ba_b.jpg "does this make me look fat ?" [07:21]
nubbins` ah, the future [07:22]
* asciilifeform saw that in a trilema article, first thought 'plucked peacock' [07:22]
mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/u4v6XjB.gif [07:35]
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mircea_popescu !up dxrt [07:39]
-assbot- You voiced dxrt for 30 minutes. [07:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00063493 = 14.4129 BTC [-] [08:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4437 @ 0.00063544 = 2.8194 BTC [+] [09:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19335 @ 0.00063408 = 12.2599 BTC [-] {3} [09:13]
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mircea_popescu !up knotwork [09:21]
-assbot- You voiced knotwork for 30 minutes. [09:21]
* assbot gives voice to knotwork [09:21]
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X-Rob mircea_popescu: aaand we're back [09:38]
X-Rob that was unpleasant [09:38]
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X-Rob from 12:02:26 PM to 4:39pm [09:39]
X-Rob 5 hours. [09:39]
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RagnarDanneskjol X-Rob - what platform do you use for the pool? [09:46]
X-Rob RagnarDanneskjol: That's 6 avalon3 blades [09:47]
RagnarDanneskjol sorry, I thought you ran the pool as well - I meant pool software [09:47]
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* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [09:52]
BingoBoingo X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Power issues. Will be off for possibly a couple more hours. Will pro-rata a discount at current estimated << I thought I had power issues today [09:53]
mircea_popescu %p [09:55]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo so how long was it unmining today ? [09:57]
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BingoBoingo I have no idea yet. Just coming back online myself. [09:58]
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mircea_popescu aite lemme know. [09:59]
BingoBoingo And coinminer's page seems down [09:59]
BingoBoingo ~6 hours and 50 minutes ago was the last mined block for our pool [10:02]
mircea_popescu aite ima go dance in the rain. later. [10:07]
Category: Logs
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