The stockexchange shareholders on welfare

I'm publishing this mostly because the ridiculous pretense of the participants is so over the top it seems worth preserving for future disbelieving generations. Preteens playing at the real world doesn't even begin to describe it, this stuff really belongs behind the bleachers.

Gaze upon this and forever remember : Internet dweebs aren't foreveralone by accident.

[16:21:32] ColdHardMetal I'm calling this meeting to order at 9:22 PM GMT, October 5th, 2012.
[16:21:38] nefario for some stupid reason I thought this was happening at midnight
[16:21:39] ColdHardMetal Minutes will be taken by IRC log on my computer.
[16:21:40] da2ce796 kk
[16:21:50] ColdHardMetal Agenda isn't much since I didn't really know what to put until we know the current situation.
[16:21:56] ColdHardMetal Agenda can be found here:
[16:21:57] nefario ok then
[16:22:03] ColdHardMetal link to agenda
[16:22:09] ColdHardMetal Lets try to keep this civil.
[16:22:14] ColdHardMetal If everyone could please type present for the log that would be great.
[16:22:18] shareholder2 present
[16:22:19] chrisrico present
[16:22:19] theymos present
[16:22:21] nefario present
[16:22:22] shareholder1 present
[16:22:23] shareholder3 present
[16:22:26] shareholder4 present
[16:22:33] da2ce796 present
[16:22:40] ColdHardMetal thank you sirs.
[16:22:45] ColdHardMetal Nef you're up.
[16:22:51] ColdHardMetal make it good.
[16:22:59] nefario present, GLBSE is down
[16:23:01] nefario the future
[16:23:06] nefario GLBSE is staying down
[16:23:11] nefario closing it's doors
[16:23:24] nefario and returning bitcoin to our users
[16:23:52] nefario and providing where possible issers and asset holders the ability to continue their relationships without us
[16:24:08] nefario clear enough?
[16:24:14] shareholder2 no
[16:24:21] shareholder2 the why's?
[16:24:22] shareholder1 if its like goats codes its unnacceptable.
[16:24:23] theymos I can't imagine any case where that would be the best option. Sell GLBSE, at least.
[16:24:31] shareholder4 is that all?
[16:24:46] nefario firstly, I can't really talk about the details
[16:24:50] shareholder3 explain in detail why you came to this conlclusion, nef
[16:24:59] nefario that would certainly not be in my best interests
[16:25:04] shareholder2 you'll have to if you want us to support it
[16:25:15] nefario no
[16:25:17] nefario I wont
[16:25:22] shareholder2 i believe we have the ability to keep things private
[16:25:38] nefario I don't think so
[16:25:42] shareholder2 since we as shareholders are directly affected as well if there is legal trouble
[16:25:44] nefario but I'll say a few things
[16:25:51] nefario what MY problem actually is
[16:25:54] nefario 1)
[16:25:58] shareholder3 so what do you mean with "providing where possible issers and asset holders the ability to continue their relationships without us"
[16:26:00] nefario AML
[16:26:01] nefario 2)
[16:26:03] nefario tax
[16:26:05] nefario 3)
[16:26:07] nefario regulations
[16:26:09] nefario in that order
[16:26:16] shareholder2 and you suddenly found out about that yesterday?
[16:26:19] chrisrico is this not all stuff that you knew would be problems going into this venture?
[16:26:31] nefario no
[16:26:45] nefario when GLBSE was started everything was a grey area
[16:26:46] nefario and
[16:26:48] nefario since that time
[16:26:53] nefario the goalposts have moved
[16:27:02] chrisrico when did that happen, and what moved them?
[16:27:03] nefario what was a toy stock exchange using a toy currency
[16:27:17] nefario became something that has attracted the attention of a lot of
[16:27:20] nefario groups
[16:27:29] nefario now
[16:27:30] shareholder4 to be fair you were all "black market" then
[16:27:36] nefario yes
[16:27:37] nefario and it was fun
[16:27:40] nefario lots of fun
[16:27:45] nefario but it wasn't serious
[16:27:48] chrisrico with our money...
[16:27:55] theymos BitcoinGlobal is not based the UK. If you're in the UK and laws prevent you from performing your duties as CEO, you'll need to resign...
[16:27:55] nefario the amounts involved were negligable
[16:28:02] nefario or however you spell the word
[16:28:11] shareholder2 exactly what theymos says
[16:28:17] nefario theymos, why dont you resign
[16:28:36] shareholder2 i believe he wanted to
[16:28:37] shareholder1 hes not the ceo
[16:28:37] nefario you're full of shit
[16:28:52] chrisrico nefario, do you believe that you are acting in all of our best interests by shutting down GLBSE? or merely your own?
[16:28:55] ColdHardMetal civil gents
[16:29:17] theymos I've done my duties as treasuruer. I wish I would have gotten out of GLBSE before this mess, but you ruined the share price...
[16:29:31] nefario chrisrico: depends on what you think GLBSE's best interest is
[16:29:38] nefario what is the goal of GLBSE?
[16:29:44] theymos Make money for shareholders.
[16:29:48] shareholder2 serve its shareholders
[16:29:48] shareholder4 nefario: so you're basically saying this is going bad for me so we all shut down and stfu?
[16:29:52] nefario ja
[16:29:54] nefario now
[16:30:06] nefario does that include going to jail for doing so or being involved
[16:30:19] shareholder1 you should let us operate it under a different name and jurisdiction
[16:30:23] chrisrico if you don't want to be involved, that's fine, you can step down
[16:30:34] theymos No one has ever forced you to do anything.
[16:30:37] nefario ok
[16:30:39] nefario so
[16:30:44] nefario let me tell you what is going to happen
[16:31:00] nefario GLBSE.com is now down
[16:31:16] nefario and will stay that way
[16:31:29] nefario users will be able to get all their BTC back
[16:31:39] nefario when they submit proof of ID
[16:31:44] shareholder1 oh god
[16:31:45] nefario same with issuers
[16:31:46] theymos lol
[16:31:51] shareholder2 hahahaha
[16:32:03] shareholder4 omg
[16:32:08] nefario and
[16:32:36] chrisrico are you planning on executing this plan with or without our approval?
[16:32:52] nefario I don't need your approval for this, I don't have much choice
[16:32:56] theymos I don't think so. I still have 1400 BTC of treasury funds, including part of user deposits. You will be unable to pay all users.
[16:33:08] shareholder1 ^^
[16:33:11] nefario ColdHardMetal, you need to send me all the verification info that you're holding on issuers you've verified
[16:33:19] shareholder1 no he doesnt
[16:33:24] shareholder2 no cooperation without information
[16:33:26] ColdHardMetal I'd really rather it didn't g like that theymos
[16:33:31] shareholder1 you are now dangerous
[16:33:38] nefario me?
[16:34:03] chrisrico nefario: why can't you just turn over all access to us and step away from the project?
[16:34:22] shareholder4 ok, so you're scared and you want out really quick
[16:34:28] nefario me?
[16:34:32] nefario out quick?
[16:34:35] nefario there is no out
[16:34:38] nefario there is over
[16:34:58] shareholder2 i don't know who said it's over, you still haven't told us anything
[16:35:02] shareholder4 well you know there are other people involved
[16:35:20] nefario I am limited in what I can tell you
[16:35:26] chrisrico by UK law?
[16:35:34] nefario I'm not a lawyer
[16:35:35] ColdHardMetal Have you actually been contacted by regulators?
[16:35:52] chrisrico then why do you say you are limited in what you can tell this? are you currently in legal trouble?
[16:35:57] nefario but the one who is representing me has said that I shouldn't say much
[16:36:08] chrisrico representing you against...?
[16:36:10] shareholder1 you are operating in bad faith
[16:36:13] ColdHardMetal representing you to who?
[16:36:50] nefario ask another question
[16:36:55] *** shareholder3_ joined the channel
[16:37:06] shareholder3_ present again
[16:37:14] shareholder3_ got kicked out
[16:37:15] chrisrico you know this is bullshit, right?
[16:37:24] nefario is it?
[16:37:29] *** shareholder3 Quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:37:43] shareholder4 I understand your situation and respect your privacy, but you can't decide for everyone else here
[16:37:49] chrisrico yes, that you are acting against us and the bylaws for your own benefit
[16:38:08] nefario so the bylaws
[16:38:35] chrisrico in what manner does your plan protect you that stepping away from this project completely would not?
[16:38:36] shareholder2 yes, this is BS
[16:38:49] shareholder2 your shareholders deserve the full picture
[16:39:11] nefario theymos:I believe that BitcoinGlobal is legally a non-entity and each individual is liable only for his own actions. No one signed the bylaws or any partnership contract.
[16:39:22] nefario thats an interesting
[16:39:24] shareholder1 if you are no longer associated with anything and glbse is a different name and jurisdiction there is nothing you can do.
[16:39:32] nefario perspective for a "shareholder" to have
[16:39:56] chrisrico nefario: in what manner does your plan protect you that stepping away from this project completely would not?
[16:40:24] nefario because what has happened has already happened and stepping away would not change that
[16:40:27] shareholder1 I imagine handing over all user data to the feds would help
[16:40:35] chrisrico but you cannot tell us what has happened?
[16:40:38] theymos nefario: _legally_ a non-entity. Bylaws are enforced by the community. You won't be able to work in the Bitcoin community ever again if you break the bylaws.
[16:40:49] shareholder1 ^^
[16:40:58] da2ce796 shareholder2, theymos, et'all nefario will say as much as he feals conftable in saying... we cannot force him to say anything more
[16:41:10] shareholder4 nefario: didnt your lawyer say the bylaws are actually legally binding?
[16:41:19] shareholder4 like two weeks ago?
[16:41:41] da2ce796 theymos: you don't hold GLBSE's funds, but rarther people who use GLBSE's funds.
[16:42:10] nefario shareholder4: legally binding in as much as they don't contravine the law, you can't use the bylaws as an excuse to make me do something illegal
[16:42:26] shareholder2 nefario: you have been acting quite erratic and leaving us in the dark ever since the conference
[16:42:31] chrisrico are you saying that doing anything but shutting down GLBSE against our wishes would be illegal for you?
[16:42:50] chrisrico have you received a court order to shut down GLBSE?
[16:43:01] shareholder2 it would cost us a lot of money, i believe we deserve to know what exactly happened
[16:43:01] shareholder1 nefario why should you habndle the shutdown and not theymos and CHM
[16:43:35] shareholder2 you can always retreit from GLBSE and every association to it
[16:43:36] nefario well theymos could do it, but he'd need to send his proof of ID to me
[16:43:50] nefario shareholder2: did you not read what I said
[16:43:57] nefario what has happened has already happened
[16:44:02] nefario as long as GLBSE exists
[16:44:05] chrisrico yet you withhold that information from us
[16:44:10] shareholder3_ Nefario, you need to help us a little bit with more background. I dont see why you can just say what has happened in the background over the past 1-2 weeks
[16:44:11] shareholder2 no. what has happned?
[16:44:11] nefario the history is still there
[16:44:14] chrisrico and expect us to go along with you
[16:44:46] shareholder3_ I dont see why you can't just say what has happened in the background over the past 1-2 weeks
[16:44:46] nefario I'm worried about 1)AML, 2)Tax 3) Regulations in that order
[16:44:55] shareholder1 are they gonna blame you if at some point a new stock exchange opens that has nothing to do with glbse
[16:45:01] nefario GLBSE has been running for 1 and 1/2 years
[16:45:04] shareholder2 just "worried"? or has the FSA knocked at your doorstep?
[16:45:07] chrisrico shareholder3_: HIS lawyer has advised him not to give us any information
[16:45:11] nefario and we've not done AML
[16:45:13] chrisrico nefario: can we speak with your lawyer?
[16:45:14] shareholder2 because you are "worried" you shut everything down suddenly?
[16:45:21] shareholder2 and you haven't thought of that before?
[16:45:27] shareholder4 so, if you step down you won't be worreid anymore
[16:45:32] da2ce796 I for one can understand where nefario is coming from, when you think the hell-hounds of the state have got a snith of your blood, then you will do almost anytihng to cover you ass.
[16:45:43] shareholder1 ^^^
[16:45:46] da2ce796 overall the blam shouldn't be no nefario, but the UK laws.
[16:45:53] nefario look
[16:45:55] shareholder4 da2ce796: yes
[16:45:56] nefario the fact is
[16:46:00] nefario GLBSE as it currently is
[16:46:03] nefario is illegal
[16:46:07] shareholder2 we never agreed to run it from the UK
[16:46:15] nefario EVERYWHERE
[16:46:27] nefario I LIVE IN THE UK
[16:46:31] shareholder2 so mpex is illegal as well?
[16:46:33] nefario or if not there then somewhere else
[16:46:41] nefario hell yes
[16:46:43] shareholder4 nefario: yes, but who gives you the authority to shut it down?
[16:47:00] shareholder2 ok. good you discovered that and reduced our shares to 0 value
[16:47:03] da2ce796 shareholder4: who gives the state the authorty to make it illigal?
[16:47:19] chrisrico shareholder4: basically, because he can, it's in his best interest, and his lawyer advised him to
[16:47:25] shareholder4 da2ce796: that's not the point
[16:47:25] chrisrico and/or he was ordered to do so by a court
[16:47:27] shareholder1 ^^^
[16:47:34] shareholder2 if it's a court, i would understand
[16:47:39] nefario let me answer shareholder4
[16:47:45] nefario chill for a second guys
[16:47:50] shareholder1 hes being lent on to gather as much user data as possible
[16:48:01] nefario shareholder1: no thats not it
[16:48:04] shareholder2 if it's just he is "worried" because of talking to a lawyer, i do not understand shutting down everything and requesting IDs
[16:48:08] nefario shut up for a minute
[16:48:11] nefario and let me talk
[16:48:15] nefario shareholder4
[16:48:19] nefario I started and ran GLBSE
[16:48:29] nefario bought all the servers and stuff etc. using my card
[16:48:34] nefario I'm the face of GLBSE
[16:48:55] nefario this also means that I get fucked for GLBSE's mistakes
[16:49:16] nefario so to answer shareholder4's question
[16:49:37] shareholder1 wtf did you not use bitcoin ?
[16:49:45] theymos You used shareholder money to start GLBSE and paid yourself ~250 BTC per month plus 24% of dividends. GLBSE belongs to the shareholders much more than it belongs to you.
[16:50:03] nefario I WAS THE LARGEST INVESTOR OF GLBSE
[16:50:06] shareholder2 so let's change the face if our face suddenly got worried after 1 1/2 years and decided to close it down on a whim and request IDs
[16:50:15] shareholder2 nope
[16:50:20] shareholder2 we were larger than you together
[16:50:32] nefario shareholder2: re-read what I said
[16:50:38] chrisrico you were the largest single investor, yes, but that doesn't mean much of anything
[16:50:43] shareholder2 just saying you do not own it
[16:50:50] nefario I didn't say I owned it
[16:51:05] shareholder2 ok. then retreat and let us handle things as we see fit
[16:51:12] nefario not possible
[16:51:16] shareholder2 why?
[16:51:18] shareholder4 but you're willing to end something you dont own
[16:51:22] shareholder2 that's the core
[16:51:26] nefario because I'm already on the hook for what has happened
[16:51:27] shareholder2 why is that not possible?
[16:51:34] nefario to date
[16:51:39] chrisrico nefario: will closing GLBSE down take you off the hook?
[16:52:04] chrisrico if so, this sounds like some sort of plea bargain?
[16:52:19] nefario we don't have plea bargains in the UK
[16:52:23] shareholder2 i simply want to know: are you only "worried" and decided to do it on your own, or are you actively being forced by the FSA?
[16:52:29] shareholder1 oops someone leaked to gp\lbse codebase and registered a server using bitcoin lol
[16:52:46] theymos Yeah. We'd have to advise users that Nefario might be collecting IDs for the government.
[16:52:53] shareholder1 yep
[16:52:58] nefario theymos: you wont
[16:53:02] theymos I will.
[16:53:04] nefario I'll anounce it
[16:53:15] shareholder2 nefario: please answer my question
[16:53:33] nefario re-phrase your question
[16:54:00] shareholder2 did you just consult with your lawyer and he advised you to do this, or is there an active order by the government agencies?
[16:54:47] nefario I can't answer that question
[16:54:57] shareholder2 then it's all kind of useless
[16:54:58] chrisrico so then there's an active order by a government agency
[16:55:01] nefario regarding the GLBSE code base
[16:55:06] shareholder2 yeah, ok
[16:55:20] nefario I don't think there is any problem selling it onward
[16:55:26] shareholder1 genjix is good aat leaking stuff lol
[16:55:37] shareholder1 :P
[16:55:39] nefario doesn't have to be leaked
[16:55:42] theymos I move that Nefario be removed as CEO and ordered to return control of GLBSE's assets to shareholders. (He probably won't do it, but then he'll be clearly in violation of the bylaws and we'll be off the hook according to the community.)
[16:55:44] nefario can be straight up sold
[16:55:54] shareholder1 seconded
[16:55:55] chrisrico I second the motion
[16:55:59] shareholder2 theymos: i second
[16:56:08] nefario I vote against this
[16:56:14] ColdHardMetal motion made and seconded. all those in favor?
[16:56:18] theymos Aye.
[16:56:18] chrisrico aye
[16:56:21] shareholder2 yes
[16:56:22] shareholder1 aye
[16:56:24] da2ce796 -
[16:56:27] shareholder4 aye
[16:56:42] nefario I vote against
[16:56:57] shareholder3_ aye, as long as this leads to a solution that avoids that I get into any sort of legal trouble (yes, thats selfish, but that is my p.o.v)
[16:57:19] nefario shareholder3_: if you don't want any trouble, let me close GLBSE
[16:57:26] shareholder1 shareholder3 we dont have any immunity
[16:57:40] shareholder2 so it's been 1 1/2 years
[16:57:42] chrisrico you could sell your shares and exit yourself,t hough
[16:57:45] shareholder2 suddenly we have to close it
[16:57:48] nefario immunity!?
[16:57:53] chrisrico but not if Nefario goes through with his plan and requires identification
[16:57:56] da2ce796 shareholder1: do not suppose things.
[16:58:00] nefario guys if GLBSE is closed
[16:58:03] shareholder2 oh, and request AML, of course
[16:58:08] shareholder3_ I find out now that apparently this is illegal. if it is illegal, I stop immedialtely and give my shares back
[16:58:09] nefario then there won't be any problems
[16:58:16] da2ce796 ^^
[16:58:30] nefario I don't have any choice on the AML
[16:58:34] chrisrico *according to nefario, it's illegal
[16:58:49] da2ce796 it is better that we run with our tail between our legs, than all end up sharing a cell.
[16:58:59] shareholder3_ then I am for closing GLBSE guys. there is no way that a handful of people can stem all these government agqancies
[16:59:18] shareholder2 da2ce796: we don't even know if there is an investigation or order
[16:59:19] theymos ColdHardMetal: Note that I am proxying for bitdragon.
[16:59:25] shareholder2 since he doesn't want to tell us anything
[16:59:40] da2ce796 shareholder2: put the peices together mate.
[16:59:49] ColdHardMetal do you have a signed message to that effect theymos?
[16:59:54] shareholder1 we dont have all the information
[16:59:56] shareholder2 da2ce796: he could be abusing our trust
[16:59:59] nefario shareholder2: I can't tell you if there is an order if there IS one
[17:00:09] theymos ColdHardMetal: He said it in that email discussion.
[17:00:13] shareholder1 ^^^
[17:00:29] shareholder3_ why dont we close it then. there is no gain trying to keep it: reputation is damaged, no legal way worldwide to keep it going, why not focusing on other bitcoin ventures that are legal
[17:00:33] shareholder1 I remember bitdragon saying it
[17:00:52] shareholder2 GLBSE reputation isn't damaged
[17:00:55] shareholder2 nefario reputation is
[17:01:00] shareholder1 yep
[17:01:00] ColdHardMetal me to, but bylaws state that proxy has to be dine via signed message stating that.
[17:01:11] nefario also guys
[17:01:11] da2ce796 I propose that we support nefario as much as we can; in shutting down GLBSE.
[17:01:18] shareholder3_ agree
[17:01:27] shareholder2 i have a suggestion
[17:01:27] nefario we can continue trying to get this up legit as an entirely new entity
[17:01:32] shareholder2 that can mutually benefit us
[17:01:36] nefario not connected to GLBSE
[17:01:48] shareholder2 da2ce796 and shareholder3_ can retreat and give us their shares, proportionally
[17:01:52] shareholder3_ I am all for making this legit
[17:01:53] shareholder2 if they want to get out
[17:02:00] shareholder2 at all costs i mean
[17:02:03] theymos ColdHardMetal: Did he sign that message to you about me selling his shares? He mentioned proxying in that email too.
[17:02:09] shareholder2 the rest can move GLBSE forward
[17:02:09] shareholder4 nefario: after the PR shitstorm this is going to cause?
[17:02:10] nefario shoot
[17:02:38] da2ce796 lol... not publisity like bad publiticy
[17:02:44] shareholder2 it should be easy enough to reallocate shares if somebody wants out because of legal fear
[17:02:46] theymos shareholder3_: I will buy your shares for 5 BTC.
[17:02:46] ColdHardMetal theymos: no he didn't
[17:02:54] theymos ColdHardMetal: Oh, too bad.
[17:02:59] shareholder2 I bid 6 :P
[17:03:00] nefario eh
[17:03:05] nefario guys
[17:03:14] shareholder1 lol
[17:03:16] nefario you giving your shares to these will seriously fuck me over
[17:03:18] shareholder4 sois actively trying to destroy our investment part of your legal strategy, or can we try and find an agreement?
[17:03:21] shareholder2 nefario: ?
[17:03:28] shareholder2 what shareholder4 says
[17:03:34] nefario not destroying
[17:03:38] shareholder2 i think my proposal is pretty good
[17:03:42] shareholder2 the ones who want out get out
[17:03:46] shareholder2 the ones who want to move on move on
[17:03:49] nefario shareholder2: what do you mean "move forward" then?
[17:04:05] shareholder2 continue GLBSE with a newly appointed head
[17:04:18] nefario for fuck sake
[17:04:20] shareholder1 I dont want nefario to go to jail either
[17:04:27] ColdHardMetal yeah
[17:04:28] shareholder2 neither do i
[17:04:29] shareholder3_ me neither
[17:04:30] da2ce796 shareholder2: we need to close up shop completely, then after the dust has setteld start something 100% legal from the ground up.
[17:04:45] shareholder2 100% legal? how many millions do you think is that going to cost?
[17:04:45] shareholder3_ agree
[17:04:48] nefario da2ce7 totally
[17:04:56] shareholder2 that's a fairy tale
[17:04:57] ColdHardMetal I think da2ce7 is right. GLBSE is dead, as much as it pains me to say it.
[17:04:58] nefario shareholder2: no idea
[17:05:03] shareholder2 all will flock to MPEX and it will win
[17:05:10] shareholder1 yep
[17:05:13] da2ce796 ha.
[17:05:14] nefario AHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaa
[17:05:17] shareholder2 because its operator isn't "worried" enough
[17:05:19] shareholder3_ at least we should try this option. I am sure that thsi effort would get support and probably new funding in the BTC community and beyond
[17:05:21] nefario fine
[17:05:38] nefario Wait until they come knocking on his door
[17:05:47] da2ce796 we can spin it as 'we are closing' and do the neatest, cleanest, best run shut-down ever.
[17:05:52] shareholder3_ midterm this will win against MPEX and others as they will get shut down soon too
[17:05:56] nefario for money laundering and funding terrorism
[17:06:02] da2ce796 nothing breads confidence like a well-run shutdown.
[17:06:05] nefario that will be fun
[17:06:12] shareholder3_ agree
[17:06:13] shareholder1 I already reported MPEX for child porn
[17:06:21] nefario yeah well
[17:06:25] nefario TERRORISM
[17:06:33] nefario but seriously though
[17:06:39] theymos It can't be clean if IDs are required. The community will riot.
[17:06:39] shareholder2 ok, so who is on my side, ie continue GLBSE?
[17:06:43] theymos I am.
[17:06:46] nefario I couldn't possibly care less about mpex right now
[17:06:57] ColdHardMetal the community will riot.
[17:06:59] shareholder3_ no to continue. just wont work
[17:07:00] da2ce796 shareholder1: forget about mpex.
[17:07:05] shareholder2 the community is already rioting
[17:07:20] shareholder2 i don't want to know what will happen if nefario really does the AML shit
[17:07:22] da2ce796 shareholder2: let them... all they do is scream
[17:07:26] shareholder3_ only those are rioting who are scammers and already gangsters in my p.o.v
[17:07:31] theymos Nefario: This is a breach of the ToS. You may be sued for this.
[17:07:37] nefario shareholder2: I'm doing it whether you want or not
[17:07:39] da2ce796 1. we should get glbse back-up with a 'messgae to the community'
[17:07:43] nefario I don't have any choice in the matter
[17:07:48] ColdHardMetal only if he passes that info on to a third party.
[17:07:52] nefario theymos: can't sue me for following the law
[17:08:04] nefario also
[17:08:15] nefario anyone heard from Goat lately?
[17:08:21] nefario the guy has disapeared
[17:08:27] shareholder2 what was the goat shit about?
[17:08:28] shareholder1 hes around
[17:08:33] ColdHardMetal focus.
[17:08:42] da2ce796 look at the picture everyone.
[17:08:45] shareholder2 why did you suddenly delist his stuff?
[17:08:50] shareholder2 and his stuff only
[17:08:52] da2ce796 connect the dots. :P
[17:09:01] nefario thank you da2ce7
[17:09:15] shareholder3_ did he call the FSA or SEC?
[17:09:19] nefario I can't say anymore about goat except he is a liability
[17:09:24] nefario and now
[17:09:31] nefario he is not OUR liability anymore
[17:09:36] shareholder2 the only picture i see is that he suddenly got "worried" and decided to close up everything, against the will of some of our shareholders
[17:09:52] shareholder2 the people who want to continue should be given the option to do so, while the rest can leave
[17:09:53] ColdHardMetal if we're going to do this we need a better system than the codes you gave goat.
[17:10:05] shareholder1 ^^^^ that is my main issue
[17:10:08] nefario no
[17:10:12] nefario not like goat
[17:10:25] shareholder2 of course not
[17:10:28] shareholder2 this time it's with ID
[17:10:28] da2ce796 we need to pack-up this baby like pros.
[17:10:36] nefario goat had to be taken off GLBSE ASAP, codes was the quickest thing I could come up with
[17:10:40] theymos Shutting down GLBSE is in violation of the bylaws: "BitcoinGlobal, whose initial stated purpose is the development and maintenance of the Global Bitcoin Stock Exchange trading platform"
[17:10:42] da2ce796 the neatest shutdown of a bitcoin company ever.
[17:10:45] shareholder1 this is gonna ruin a lot of people because as an asset issuer I cant afford to shut down
[17:10:57] shareholder2 theymos: i think there is no question left he is violating our agreements
[17:11:11] nefario shareholder1: you can continue without GLBSE
[17:11:11] shareholder3_ agree to da2ce796
[17:11:19] nefario I'm working on some basic management code
[17:11:26] nefario for issuers
[17:11:32] nefario it's going to be pretty basic
[17:11:37] shareholder3_ those who want to run an illegal stock exchange could do it separately if they want
[17:11:41] nefario but make running their show possible
[17:12:08] shareholder3_ (1) shutting down GLBSE in a neat and clean way (2) register is and make it legal under a new framework
[17:12:15] shareholder1 You need to let people still run their own shit
[17:12:24] nefario yeah
[17:12:28] shareholder2 stop kidding yourself
[17:12:32] shareholder2 (2) will never happen
[17:12:41] shareholder3_ MtGox also made it
[17:12:45] shareholder2 it's impossible, and if it is, it will require millions/billions
[17:12:48] nefario shareholder2: I think it's possible
[17:12:58] nefario shareholder2: not true
[17:13:00] shareholder3_ let nafario explain why its possible
[17:13:01] nefario tens of thousands
[17:13:03] nefario yes
[17:13:06] theymos shareholder3_: Shutting down GLBSE guarantees that your shares will be worth 0, and doesn't increase your legal risk. What's done is done, legal or not.
[17:13:08] nefario millions no
[17:13:10] shareholder2 ok, please do
[17:13:10] da2ce796 shareholder2: but we don't want option A(now) go to jail on terroism charges.
[17:13:14] shareholder3_ I dont know enough about it to get 100% confidence
[17:13:14] shareholder1 yes you can runa pink sheets market using registered brokers
[17:13:28] theymos shareholder3_: Doesn't decrease your risk, I mean.
[17:13:38] shareholder2 i propose again
[17:13:39] nefario I have no problem if we shut down to have the same share/stock ratio for any new legal entity
[17:13:45] nefario as we currently have
[17:13:49] nefario and
[17:13:52] nefario we all become legit
[17:14:02] shareholder1 I have young kids and dont want to go to guantonomo bay in an orange jumpsuit lol
[17:14:06] shareholder2 nice fairy tale nefario
[17:14:16] da2ce796 shareholder2: theymos: I'm behind nefario on this one... sorry. I live to fight annother day.
[17:14:19] nefario shareholder1: if we're going legit you won'
[17:14:20] nefario t
[17:14:26] shareholder2 da2ce796: i'll take your shares
[17:14:34] theymos da2ce796: How does this decrease your risk?
[17:14:37] chrisrico da2ce796: why can't you just leave us with GLBSE, rather than backing Nefario in his actions against the shareholders?
[17:14:51] nefario because GLBSE is closing down
[17:14:55] nefario like it or lump it
[17:14:56] da2ce796 chrisrico: becasue I trust the character of nefario
[17:15:01] nefario and
[17:15:10] nefario we can take it legit
[17:15:14] nefario or give up on it entirely
[17:15:17] shareholder2 da2ce796: do you trust his business sense?
[17:15:19] shareholder1 how is nefario going to run a legit bitcoin business when he has a fucking scammer tag :P
[17:15:24] nefario but we CANNOT continue as we currently are
[17:15:26] chrisrico why would anyone ever trust you again, nefario?
[17:15:32] da2ce796 shareholder2: really not the point now.
[17:15:42] shareholder2 that it is possible to "go legit" with the income and expenses we have?
[17:15:44] nefario chrisrico: why wouldn't they
[17:15:50] nefario everyone is getting their bitcoin back
[17:15:55] shareholder3_ I think nefario can get back trust
[17:15:56] ColdHardMetal brb
[17:15:57] chrisrico including shareholders?
[17:15:58] shareholder1 no they arent
[17:16:17] shareholder3_ especially if it becomes clear that he was told that the current version of GLBSE was illegal
[17:16:19] chrisrico and they will only get theri BTC back IF THEY GIVE YOU THEIR IDENTITY INFORMATION
[17:16:27] shareholder2 nefario violated our trust, violated goat's rights (however annoying he was) and abandoned GLBSE users
[17:16:29] nefario chrisrico: what do you want me to do? If I had over GLBSE to someone else I still get fucked
[17:16:36] nefario I can't just walk away
[17:16:49] nefario I didn't sign up to run something that is breaking the law
[17:16:50] chrisrico let me ask you a hypothetical question
[17:16:54] chrisrico bullshit you didn't!
[17:16:55] nefario GLBSE and bitcoin was in a grey area
[17:17:00] shareholder1 lol
[17:17:07] nefario that area is nolonger grey
[17:17:09] shareholder2 from one day to the other
[17:17:09] chrisrico you thought an unregulated securities market was a "gray area"?
[17:17:10] shareholder2 it is RED
[17:17:11] da2ce796 ok... well I'm for shutting down GLBSE neat and tidy.
[17:17:16] shareholder1 you only got legal advice now???
[17:17:22] nefario yeah
[17:17:28] nefario not free you know
[17:17:28] da2ce796 crossing all the legal dots and t's.
[17:17:30] nefario and
[17:17:31] chrisrico da2ce796: by neat and tidy, you mean requiring AML information from all asset holders and issuers?
[17:17:34] shareholder2 shareholder1: yes. he's been acting weirdly ever since talking to a lawyer
[17:17:41] da2ce796 chrisrico: yes.
[17:17:42] nefario this isn't something an average lawyer knows anything about
[17:17:57] chrisrico nefario: if you were removed as ceo, would you return the funds you control back to shareholders/
[17:17:59] nefario chrisrico: yes
[17:18:01] shareholder2 chrisrico: sounds very neat and tidy indeed
[17:18:24] shareholder3_ ifnowadays you also have to provide ID docs to the exchanges
[17:18:25] nefario chrisrico: if I was removed I would shut down GLBSE and return all funds to users, providing they give their AML info
[17:18:33] shareholder2 ColdHardMetal: did the motion pass?
[17:18:33] nefario but I'll do that anyway
[17:18:42] nefario shareholder2: cold is gone for a minute
[17:18:43] chrisrico so you would steal company funds, then?
[17:18:44] shareholder3_ so yes, not everyone likes it, but the ones that are no criminals WILL provide their ID
[17:18:53] nefario chrisrico: how do I steal company funds?
[17:19:03] chrisrico if you are removed as ceo, those would no longer be for you to control
[17:19:10] nefario HAHAHA
[17:19:11] shareholder1 ^^^
[17:19:15] nefario I'm still liable
[17:19:18] ColdHardMetal back
[17:19:25] nefario for that and EVERYTHING that has happened on GLBSE thus far
[17:19:31] chrisrico and?
[17:19:40] chrisrico that's not our fault
[17:19:54] shareholder3_ guys, this si all hypothetical. we have to understand that nefario is forced to act like that. I would argue everyone of us would behave exactly in the same way as him
[17:19:58] shareholder2 GLBSE is ruled by nefario's lawyer now
[17:20:00] shareholder2 not shareholders
[17:20:06] shareholder2 you have to understand
[17:20:20] shareholder3_ thats it ^^^
[17:20:24] shareholder2 shareholder3_: i don't know whether he is being forced
[17:20:24] shareholder4 lol, like a real company
[17:20:29] shareholder2 it doesn't sound like he is
[17:20:41] shareholder2 sounds more like he suddenly got cold feet thinking about it and wants to close up shop
[17:20:50] ColdHardMetal shareholder2: it's at 45% of shares present, and I haven't voted yet.
[17:20:55] shareholder1 did the motion pass ?
[17:21:01] shareholder2 ColdHardMetal: ok, so you couldmake it pass
[17:21:01] shareholder1 ok
[17:21:09] shareholder2 interesting situation
[17:21:16] ColdHardMetal for you maybe lol
[17:21:31] nefario you know what is interesting
[17:21:44] nefario my landlady is watching american pie 2 now as I'm here
[17:21:47] nefario and I'm shaking
[17:21:54] nefario she thinks I'm cold
[17:22:25] shareholder3_ i belive nafario is a good person
[17:22:37] shareholder3_ he has leaned forward and takne much more risk that all us of together
[17:22:53] shareholder3_ and we need to stop thinking only in a shareholder4ry way
[17:23:07] shareholder2 i'm thinking in a responsibility way
[17:23:12] shareholder3_ yes, I would have loved to make millions with this investment, but lets find another one
[17:23:22] shareholder2 fucking over GLBSE customers and clients is abandoning it
[17:23:25] shareholder2 and demanding AML
[17:23:26] nefario closing down GLBSE, and ending it as an entity as it currently stands in a clean fashion, and then creating a legal entity removes pretty much all the risk for us
[17:23:34] shareholder1 requiring AML from people is a breach of trust
[17:23:43] shareholder2 tell me how you will make that legal entity
[17:23:45] nefario shareholder1: I don't have a choice
[17:23:49] shareholder2 any concrete plans?
[17:23:58] nefario create a company, submit to the FSA
[17:24:02] da2ce796 shareholder1: that is the law, and the law dosn't care about 'trust'
[17:24:06] shareholder3_ shareholder2, I agree that this is not ideal for customers - in contrast, it pretty sad for them. BUT: they should have done their research themselves that this was a grey area if not more
[17:24:10] shareholder2 we talked about legitimizing GLBSE last meeting
[17:24:11] nefario meeting lawyer on wed. for the details
[17:24:18] shareholder1 glbse is now a honeypot
[17:24:22] shareholder2 some shareholders have expressed they don't want to be part of it and wanted to sell
[17:24:29] shareholder2 you made it impossible for them
[17:24:30] da2ce796 shareholder1: glbse is shutdown.
[17:24:32] shareholder2 (i was one of them)
[17:24:57] shareholder2 those shareholders imo now have the right to take their shares and make the best out of it
[17:25:19] shareholder4 can you even register with the FSA after running GLBSE?
[17:25:19] nefario shareholder2: whether it was me or someone else, GLBSE would have been shutdown anyway if it was run in it's current fashion?
[17:25:34] shareholder2 nefario: GLBSE is nothing but a server and a domain
[17:25:39] shareholder2 and you
[17:25:40] shareholder3_ I have the feeling that it would be best for all shareholders to preserve the maximum value of their shares to follow nefarios proposal
[17:25:41] nefario shareholder4 sure I can
[17:25:42] shareholder2 all can be swapped
[17:25:46] shareholder1 how do we know this data wont be used against people in a subpoena ?
[17:25:50] da2ce796 shareholder2: you can say what you want. but I don't care about GLBSE's by-laws anyomre... so I'm with nefario in shutting this thing down.
[17:26:05] shareholder2 if you don't care about the bylaws, then forfeit your shares
[17:26:27] shareholder3_ shareholder2: GLBSE is more: it nefario who put all his swaet 24h per day in it. who of us can put som much time and energy behind it?
[17:26:31] shareholder1 shareholder2 the motion hasnt passed yet :P
[17:26:32] shareholder2 but i see we won't come to an agreement here anyway
[17:26:52] shareholder2 shareholder3_: to be honest, nefario has done more bad than good lately
[17:26:58] nefario shareholder1: if the law (I don't know what is required, a court order or whatever) comes and asks for those details, and they have all the paperwork they need then I will provide, and that will be made clear to EVERYONE who submits their AML info
[17:26:59] theymos ColdHardMetal: Since nefario refuses to follow the bylaws, can we strip him of his shares?
[17:27:06] ColdHardMetal actually, if shareholder3 votes no, as I beleive he's changed to, that puts the motion at 35% and my vote doesn't make it.
[17:27:34] shareholder1 theymos no
[17:27:48] ColdHardMetal nothin in the bylaws allows for that.
[17:27:51] ColdHardMetal imo.
[17:28:00] shareholder2 shareholder3_: theymos has already expressed he could take over most things in the short term
[17:28:09] nefario theymos, you are a nasty piece of work
[17:28:11] shareholder2 we can find a suitable person then
[17:28:29] nefario I won't be giving the server, domain, db or anything to anyone else
[17:28:39] nefario I am shutting down GLBSE
[17:28:42] shareholder2 fine, but this is on you
[17:28:54] nefario I have no problem selling the code
[17:29:13] nefario but it is best for all of us to put GLBSE to a nice quiet rest
[17:29:21] nefario and then start again the right way
[17:29:34] shareholder1 It kinda fucks me over because my asset relies on other assets to function
[17:29:39] shareholder2 theymos and I didn't want to start the "right way" and have expressed that much in the last meeting, nefario
[17:29:49] shareholder2 you kind of robbed us of our chances to get out of the way
[17:29:55] nefario no I didn't
[17:29:57] nefario the state dud
[17:29:58] nefario did
[17:30:04] shareholder1 ^^^
[17:30:20] shareholder2 had we had 1 more week, there would only be 100% consent here with your actions (most likely)
[17:30:36] nefario we didn't have one more week
[17:30:42] ColdHardMetal that would have been pretty rough on the new owners.
[17:30:45] shareholder2 ok
[17:30:48] da2ce796 shareholder2: I'm glad that we droped goat instantly.
[17:31:05] shareholder2 instantly? he's been a pain for a year or so
[17:31:05] ColdHardMetal ok.
[17:31:07] shareholder3_ not sure with me. frankly, i was pissed with nefarios communications and still am. but hearing the background now tells me there is no other option
[17:31:27] nefario I made a big mistake with goat
[17:31:27] ColdHardMetal there aren't enough votes to remove Nefario. even if there were he would proceed to shut down anyway.
[17:31:30] shareholder3_ and i want to support nefario as his vision is the right longterm sgtrategy to at least have a chance to make this BIG
[17:31:34] nefario that was talking about it on the forums
[17:31:40] nefario I shouldn't have said anything
[17:32:08] shareholder2 shareholder3_: as if he would give you a share in that
[17:32:20] shareholder2 he'll just start it anew without us
[17:32:34] nefario shareholder2: I will do it at the current shares we have now
[17:32:42] shareholder2 ok
[17:32:47] shareholder2 i can't do anything to stop you
[17:32:49] shareholder1 we are gonna ho,d you to that
[17:32:54] shareholder2 so i hope you do the right thing
[17:33:29] nefario sure
[17:33:37] shareholder2 you obviously have more info than we do. i don't know for sure if you just went paranoid or if the FSA has come knocking
[17:33:54] nefario read what I said
[17:33:57] nefario my worries
[17:34:03] nefario 1) AML
[17:34:06] nefario 2) Tax
[17:34:09] nefario 3) Regulations
[17:34:11] nefario in that order
[17:34:21] ColdHardMetal I think a clean shutdown is our only real option.
[17:34:30] shareholder3_ can we have a motion that nefario (if this thing continues as he proposes, provided we agree to that) needs to align all communication externally with some of us or delegates to someone who is better in communcations?
[17:34:35] shareholder1 Is the ID I submitted fpr my asset enough to pass AML ?
[17:34:51] nefario I don't know
[17:34:56] nefario I didn't do verification
[17:34:59] nefario that was cold
[17:35:02] ColdHardMetal how much more could they need?
[17:35:02] nefario cold?
[17:35:04] shareholder1 Because I no longer have adrivers license
[17:35:15] ColdHardMetal what do they need, do you even know?
[17:35:19] nefario lose it or have it revoked?
[17:35:25] shareholder1 Its suspended
[17:35:30] nefario oh thats fine
[17:35:31] nefario well
[17:35:33] nefario for AML
[17:35:35] nefario IMO
[17:35:35] nefario so
[17:36:07] nefario we need gov. issued photo ID, a pic of the user with their GLBSE ID, and proof of address
[17:36:12] nefario gox style proof of address
[17:36:13] nefario so
[17:36:16] nefario utility bill
[17:36:25] nefario maybe a tax reciept
[17:36:32] da2ce796 ok, lets pack this baby up.
[17:36:32] ColdHardMetal guess I can't get my .3 BTC then :(
[17:36:37] shareholder1 I have none of those and cant get them
[17:36:39] *** shareholder2 Quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:36:55] *** shareholder2 joined the channel
[17:36:56] *** shareholder2 Quit IRC (Changing host)
[17:36:56] *** shareholder2 joined the channel
[17:36:59] nefario shareholder1: you have a welfare slip
[17:37:12] nefario ?
[17:37:14] shareholder1 maybe
[17:37:37] shareholder2 nefario: so you are telling me you just went paranoid because you talked to a lawyer and decided to do that on a whim? :(
[17:37:45] nefario no
[17:37:47] shareholder2 that would suck
[17:37:52] shareholder2 ok
[17:38:01] nefario also
[17:38:11] nefario just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
[17:38:13] shareholder4 he's telling it;s something worse than FSA
[17:38:22] nefario I didn't say that
[17:38:23] nefario but
[17:38:26] shareholder2 what could be worse shareholder4?
[17:38:28] nefario I'm not denying it either
[17:38:37] shareholder4 1) AML
[17:38:47] shareholder2 the tax agency?
[17:38:53] ColdHardMetal sector 7g is after him!
[17:39:07] shareholder1 It just seems like they are creating a list to come after people who use bitcoin
[17:39:26] ColdHardMetal will you be passing this ID info on to anyone?
[17:39:40] shareholder2 good thing i had no BTC on GLBSE
[17:39:49] nefario ColdHardMetal: only if requested, by the right authorities with the right paperwork
[17:39:50] da2ce796 ColdHardMetal: AML details are avalibe on request.
[17:39:55] shareholder2 nefario: will shareholders need to AML too?
[17:40:01] nefario yes
[17:40:11] shareholder2 i mean for the money we have in cold
[17:40:16] shareholder2 the GLBSE's assets
[17:40:21] nefario ????
[17:40:21] shareholder2 however little it is
[17:40:32] nefario I don't get what you mean
[17:40:36] nefario start from the begining
[17:40:37] shareholder2 GLBSE has assets i presume. BTC that it owns
[17:40:45] ColdHardMetal shareholder2: you mean our leftover operatin gfunds, whatever that turns out to be.
[17:40:49] shareholder2 so bitcoinglobal will own some BTC that it needs to distribute to shareholders
[17:40:50] nefario yeah
[17:40:51] shareholder2 right
[17:40:56] shareholder3_ nefario, how will you make sure that the asset owners and issuers will be handled well and better than goat?
[17:40:59] shareholder2 better not be AML too -_-
[17:41:10] nefario going to have to be
[17:41:12] nefario everything is
[17:41:20] shareholder2 good thing theymos has the treasury then
[17:41:35] nefario I don't think it's a good thing
[17:41:38] shareholder2 AML my butt
[17:42:09] shareholder1 this is why I dont use mt gox
[17:42:10] nefario the idea that I've given 15K USD worth of something to an anonymous person "to hold" looks really fucking bad for me
[17:42:21] shareholder2 i'm glad you did
[17:42:36] shareholder2 at least now there is the chance i won't have to get naked
[17:42:38] nefario you and theymos are so eager to see me fucked? Why>?
[17:42:44] shareholder3_ come on guys, lets not slit up , lets act like a team
[17:42:50] shareholder2 because you aren't letting us in
[17:43:08] nefario I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT
[17:43:08] shareholder2 i don't want to see you fucked
[17:43:14] shareholder4 shareholder3_: not that Nefario is acting like we're a team....
[17:43:27] nefario shareholder4: not like I've got much of a choice
[17:43:32] nefario well
[17:43:33] da2ce796 lets just trust nefario and gets going.
[17:43:33] nefario no
[17:43:36] nefario thats not true
[17:43:43] nefario I was given two choices
[17:43:55] shareholder1 with or without lube ?
[17:44:02] nefario one good, one bad
[17:44:16] nefario what shareholder1 said
[17:44:20] chrisrico can you tell us who gave you these choices?
[17:44:35] da2ce796 chrisrico: of course he cannot.
[17:44:38] shareholder1 I dont want them to seize my house under the crime commission :P
[17:45:14] nefario shareholder1: there will be no seizing of houses
[17:45:23] shareholder1 Not that i really own it lol
[17:45:23] nefario if you want
[17:45:28] nefario what we can do
[17:45:38] nefario is delay your ownership of the new company
[17:45:46] nefario until after it's set up and running
[17:45:50] nefario and you're confident
[17:46:09] nefario that it's ok to legit on it
[17:46:21] shareholder3_ are u talking to all of us , nefario?
[17:46:31] nefario it's up to you guys
[17:46:33] shareholder1 That would be better.
[17:46:40] nefario if you want to be a shareholder from the start of the company
[17:46:42] nefario then thats cool
[17:46:47] nefario if you want to wait until later
[17:46:56] nefario then we'll keep that option open
[17:47:12] shareholder3_ i am fine as long as i get constant evidence from you that you comply with all givermnemt and regulatory requirements
[17:47:15] ColdHardMetal how do you plan to finance this new company?
[17:47:23] shareholder1 ^^^^
[17:47:28] nefario good question
[17:47:37] ColdHardMetal can't go to the public.
[17:47:53] shareholder3_ crowdfunding?
[17:47:58] nefario meeting with lawyer on wed to cover these details
[17:48:07] da2ce796 k
[17:48:25] nefario I also don't know how much it's going to cost
[17:48:31] shareholder1 a lot
[17:48:36] nefario probably
[17:48:37] nefario but
[17:48:43] nefario probably less than we imagined
[17:49:02] ColdHardMetal alright. so gg GLBSE. Next step to wind this up???
[17:49:07] da2ce796 Lets neatly pack up GLBSE.
[17:49:24] nefario I put forward the motion that we bring GLBSE and bitcoin global to an end
[17:49:27] shareholder4 nefario: for the records, you arent going to hand over GLBSE even if a majority of shareholders is against shutting down right?
[17:49:27] shareholder3_ i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed
[17:49:48] nefario shareholder3_: good idea
[17:49:50] nefario another good idea
[17:49:51] nefario we need
[17:49:55] nefario a real PR person
[17:49:58] nefario who is not me
[17:50:01] nefario with another account
[17:50:02] shareholder1 yes
[17:50:15] shareholder4 i hear MPOE-PR is good
[17:50:20] shareholder1 bahaha
[17:50:21] da2ce796 lol
[17:50:22] ColdHardMetal the finest
[17:50:50] shareholder2 MPOE-PR will be very happy to communicate that GLBSE is winding down
[17:50:55] shareholder2 i'm sure
[17:51:04] ColdHardMetal It's not just PR nef. It's making rash decisions without prior thought that are the root of the problem.
[17:51:09] chrisrico so I've been away for a bit, what did I miss?
[17:51:10] shareholder1 yes they will but we can say they are illegal
[17:51:14] shareholder3_ i know a few people in the community that could help on PR. i could ask once we have asolid plan to come back
[17:51:36] shareholder2 if GLBSE is to restart with nefario as face it's probably doomed
[17:51:38] nefario ColdHardMetal: I didn't get to talk to you about what the lawyer recommended on Goat
[17:51:41] chrisrico it's nefario, shareholder3_, da2ce796 and who else that want to shut down GLBSE?
[17:52:01] shareholder1 I dont want to but we have no choice
[17:52:21] shareholder4 nefario: for the records, you arent going to hand over GLBSE even if a majority of shareholders is against shutting down right?
[17:52:23] ColdHardMetal I think I have to side with shut down. I just don;t see any other way out.
[17:52:23] shareholder3_ nefario, ColdhardMetal has a point. decisions need to be aligned first before moving forward (unless its sth against the law which seems to have triggered some of your rushed decisions lately)
[17:52:23] shareholder1 I dont want to use a seat belt either but I have no choice
[17:52:30] chrisrico shareholder1: you mean because nefario is going to move forward with or without us?
[17:52:47] shareholder1 chrisrico no because they state will
[17:53:11] shareholder2 shareholder3_: that's my problem with it, it only "seems"
[17:53:18] chrisrico shareholder1: we've seen no evidence of that
[17:53:20] shareholder2 we've seen lots of such rash decisions in the past
[17:53:35] shareholder2 most of the time they were undone quickly
[17:54:07] shareholder3_ nefario, what is your response to "decisions need to be aligned first before moving forward" in the future
[17:54:29] shareholder1 I sick of the fucking scams on glbse and if this makes it better Im all for it
[17:54:41] shareholder3_ ^^^
[17:54:44] chrisrico how is shutting GLBSE down going to solve that problem?
[17:55:03] shareholder3_ all people will have to register with IDs and everything first
[17:55:04] shareholder2 i'm sick of theft, we need to do away with property :D
[17:55:11] shareholder1 haha
[17:55:17] nefario shareholder3_: we're going to have a real company with a board
[17:55:25] shareholder3_ there is at least a much lower likelihood for scmas, apart from some new madoff kids
[17:55:27] nefario so that should help I guess
[17:55:38] shareholder2 you don't stand a chance against mpex
[17:55:41] shareholder3_ makes sense
[17:55:44] shareholder2 with its low overhead
[17:56:01] da2ce796 shareholder2 we will be competing in a completely differnt market to mpex
[17:56:04] shareholder2 IF it is even possible to do legally
[17:56:07] shareholder4 shareholder2: actually it'a dofferent target
[17:56:19] shareholder4 if it's not wishful thinking
[17:56:20] da2ce796 as in, mpex will stop being our compittion.
[17:56:26] shareholder1 mpex will be classified as money launderers and terrorists
[17:56:26] shareholder2 really? satoshidice and bitvps look pretty legit to me
[17:56:30] shareholder2 bitvps even hosts GLBSE
[17:56:31] ColdHardMetal this is irrlevant at this point.
[17:56:39] shareholder3_ agree with da2ce7, its a different, larger market the new GLBSE would operate in
[17:56:41] shareholder2 hosted, sorry
[17:56:51] ColdHardMetal what needs to happen next:
[17:56:57] chrisrico so your competition with be the NYSE
[17:57:02] shareholder1 yep
[17:57:04] shareholder3_ this is the big opportunity to create a new, efficient way to fund investments and strat ups
[17:57:07] ColdHardMetal Nefario needs to make a post explaining this to the community,
[17:57:09] chrisrico why would anyone use a dinky little bitcoin exchange, and how would it stay solvent?
[17:57:21] ColdHardMetal and then he needs to start collecting IDs.
[17:57:22] chrisrico when in order to list or invest on it you'd have to follow the same regulations as the billion dollar exchanges?
[17:57:26] shareholder2 chrisrico: haha, pretty much
[17:57:39] nefario shareholder2: bitvps hosts GLBSE images
[17:57:41] chrisrico you're fucking delusional if you think it will work
[17:57:46] nefario and a few other files
[17:57:57] ColdHardMetal not much else the rest of us can do imo.
[17:58:00] nefario chrisrico: the solution
[17:58:02] shareholder2 it's more likely that the NYSE lets companies trade in bitcoin than a legit PROFITABLE bitcoin stock market
[17:58:03] nefario we don't just do bitcoin
[17:58:08] nefario we ALSO do bitcoin
[17:58:17] chrisrico lol
[17:58:36] shareholder1 yeah if you have aml you can do fiat
[17:58:48] shareholder2 i don't know how you guys can delude yourself into thinking it could ever work
[17:58:55] nefario we can try
[17:58:56] shareholder2 but it doesn't matter anyway
[17:59:03] shareholder3_ i think there are tow clear next steps (1) shut down glbse in its current form, there is even not another meaningful choice (2) create a new business plan for the new venture
[17:59:12] chrisrico so why don't you go off and try ON YOUR OWN, nefario, rather than taking our money hostage?
[17:59:28] nefario chrisrico: I'm not taking any money hostage
[17:59:34] nefario I've said I'll return all BTC
[17:59:43] nefario and provide as much support as possible for issuers
[17:59:43] shareholder1 you sorta are :P
[17:59:44] shareholder2 AML sounds like hostage to me
[17:59:44] shareholder3_ I agree with chris and others that its not a no brainer, but BTC provides great advantages to help smaller companies with funding, much better than a real IPO on the MYSE
[17:59:46] chrisrico ok, then I'll give you a address to which you can immediately return my invested bitcoin
[17:59:48] da2ce796 chrisrico: what moneys, are you talking about he peoples money who used to use glbse?
[17:59:59] shareholder2 shareholder3_: yes, they'll be doing that on mpex
[18:00:09] shareholder2 NYSE sucks because it's legal
[18:00:16] shareholder2 and has massive overhead
[18:00:23] shareholder1 I own shares in litecoinglobal so meh lol
[18:00:36] shareholder2 i actually thought about that
[18:00:38] ColdHardMetal real companies won;t use MPEX anymore than they woul duse us in our current form.
[18:00:39] shareholder1 I hope they open a bitcoin version
[18:00:46] shareholder2 i thought maybe nefario bought into mpex somehow
[18:00:50] nefario no
[18:00:57] shareholder2 becaus ethat's the only thing explaining that madness, lol
[18:01:03] shareholder3_ me neither MPEX is doomed big time soon
[18:01:04] nefario I can't even talk to the guy, not for lack of trying
[18:01:06] shareholder1 mpex cant accept usd :P
[18:01:11] chrisrico da2ce796: I was referring to the shareholder money, but also that of the users
[18:01:24] nefario I thought it was funny as soon as he saw that GLBSE was down, mpex price was up to 30BTC
[18:01:26] shareholder2 chrisrico: don't worry about shareholder money
[18:01:30] shareholder2 theymos is treasurer
[18:01:41] chrisrico my understanding is that theymos holds the users' money
[18:01:42] shareholder2 and there's a chance he will not give a fk about AML
[18:02:02] theymos I will not require AML. I don't have most user deposits, though.
[18:02:05] nefario then he needs to return that users money
[18:02:18] nefario theymos also doesn't have any users account info
[18:02:21] theymos Send me the user database and I will happily return the money.
[18:02:24] shareholder2 i understand him being reluctant
[18:02:27] nefario not a chance
[18:02:28] shareholder2 with so little info
[18:02:36] shareholder2 i would probably do the same
[18:02:43] chrisrico nefario: what is the disaster plan for government intervention you mentioned here? "Yes we've got frequent offsite backups, you've need to read our threads on our disaster plans, from government action to me being hit by a bus."
[18:02:52] chrisrico was it "shut down GLBSE and require IDs to withdraw your money"?
[18:02:56] shareholder2 chrisrico: that was all talk
[18:03:04] nefario not really
[18:03:04] shareholder2 once the lawyer got to him, he got scared
[18:03:09] shareholder1 was bullshit
[18:03:12] nefario if I'd been hit by a bus it would have worked
[18:03:28] nefario government is more of a force majour than a bus though
[18:03:57] chrisrico not really... it's just more drawn out, and they gave you an offer you couldn't refuse
[18:04:04] chrisrico buses don't give you that offer
[18:04:05] shareholder3_ ok. can we try to make some decisions?
[18:04:17] shareholder2 we don't get to make decisions shareholder3_
[18:04:20] shareholder1 it would probably be less problematic to work with the mafia
[18:04:21] shareholder2 his lawyer does
[18:04:30] shareholder4 this
[18:04:32] shareholder2 as i said, GLBSE is now ruled by his lawyer
[18:04:35] shareholder2 not shareholders
[18:04:39] chrisrico shareholder1: they are the mafia, just the biggest one in the area
[18:05:04] nefario shareholder2: we COULD go against what my lawyer says
[18:05:07] nefario the result would be
[18:05:10] shareholder4 suppose, just for a moment, that we vite no
[18:05:11] nefario GLBSE gets shut down
[18:05:16] nefario and I get imprisoned
[18:05:17] shareholder4 what happens next?
[18:05:28] shareholder2 why imprisonment for you?
[18:05:31] shareholder3_ well, whatever, we can still try to act like shareholders, trying to decided what is the best plan weighing all the risk and opps, and the risk is 100% that the current plan does not work anymore. hence, I dont see why someone would oppose shutting GLBSE down inan orderly manner now
[18:05:34] shareholder1 because bitcoin
[18:05:40] shareholder2 if you don't have anything to do with it from that point
[18:05:59] shareholder1 glbse is gonna get shut down either way
[18:06:18] chrisrico shareholder3_: "orderly manner" is not suddenly holding shareholder, issuer, and investor funds ransom based on nefario kowtowing to HIS government's demand for AML information
[18:06:36] shareholder2 i'll bet with you that mpex won't get shut down until the 2nd block reward halving in 2016/2017
[18:06:50] shareholder2 they might change server and domain
[18:06:54] shareholder2 but they'll do fine
[18:07:05] nefario until he gets arrested
[18:07:08] shareholder1 wish you cvould exchnage your glbse shares for mpex lol
[18:07:08] shareholder3_ but they will then just be the heaven of scammers and remain small
[18:07:22] shareholder2 shareholder3_: bitvps and satoshidice doesn't look like heaven of scammers to me
[18:07:36] shareholder1 mpex doesnt have scammers from what i can see
[18:07:43] shareholder3_ once the news about what we are talking about gets out, MPEX will be under huge pressure, if they want or not
[18:07:52] shareholder2 shareholder3_: why?
[18:08:03] shareholder1 satoshidice is now on an illegal exchange :P
[18:08:04] chrisrico because governments are magic, moral, law enforcing fairies
[18:08:08] shareholder2 everyone knew that bitcoin denominated stock markets aren't perfectly legal!
[18:08:13] shareholder2 everyone was ok with it
[18:08:18] shareholder2 suddenly nefario is no longer ok with it
[18:08:22] shareholder3_ because suddenly at least a significant portion of issues and traders will get "cold feet" and stop using it
[18:08:45] chrisrico that's pure speculation, but not everyone is as concerned with following bullshit laws as some
[18:08:46] shareholder4 shareholder3_: I wouldn't bet on that
[18:08:54] shareholder2 i doubt it shareholder3_
[18:08:55] nefario shareholder2: you need to re-read what has been said here.
[18:09:10] nefario chrisrico: not everyone here is anonymous
[18:09:15] shareholder1 shareholder2 if he has an order hes not allowed to talk about it
[18:09:31] shareholder3_ right, there will be some initial flow of users from glbse to mpex, but that will be temporary
[18:09:33] shareholder1 Its the same with the Australian crime commission
[18:09:33] shareholder2 shareholder1: i hope he does
[18:09:38] shareholder2 otherwise he would have betrayed us
[18:09:43] chrisrico nefario: did you choose to become non-anonymous? or did we or the rest of the community force you?
[18:09:59] chrisrico maybe you could own up to your own fucking decisions?
[18:10:00] shareholder2 actually, he probably betrayed us regardless \85
[18:10:04] shareholder1 they can drag you off the street and question you in secret and you cant tell anyone
[18:10:16] nefario me giving up my identity to the community was the cost to make GLBSE the success it has become
[18:10:41] shareholder3_ which ^^^i think derserves some credit
[18:10:46] shareholder1 I still think you ened a platfrom for small companies to raise bitcoins on
[18:10:47] shareholder3_ nefario is holding his ass in the air for us
[18:10:51] chrisrico which he has then destroyed over the course of two weeks
[18:11:11] chrisrico he did so of his own volition, now he wants to fuck us over so that he is protected
[18:11:18] shareholder2 GLBSE success? lol
[18:11:22] nefario ja
[18:11:24] shareholder2 success for mpex, maybe
[18:11:24] nefario otherwise
[18:11:30] nefario why are you here for
[18:11:37] shareholder1 the ony thing associated with gl;bse is scamming
[18:11:39] shareholder3_ law interpretation has (temporarily) destroyed it, not nefario
[18:11:39] nefario if GLBSE wasn't a success then you wouldn't even bother
[18:11:55] chrisrico GLBSE is such a success, we need to shut it down immediately!
[18:12:02] shareholder2 i mean it's no longer a success now that you fucked it up
[18:12:09] nefario if GLBSE wasn't a success then no one would even notice we've dissapeared
[18:12:14] shareholder1 the state fucked it up
[18:12:18] shareholder3_ ^^^
[18:12:27] chrisrico it doesn't stand to reason that the only reason it was a success is because you attached your real identity to it
[18:12:35] nefario no it doesn't
[18:12:39] nefario I also worked my ass off
[18:12:41] chrisrico Bitcoin is a pretty big success right now and Satoshi never revealed his identity
[18:12:43] shareholder3_ guys, we wont solve this. lets get back to focus
[18:12:52] shareholder3_ accusations wont help now
[18:13:00] chrisrico nefario: I don't deny that. however, you did so with the help of OUR funding
[18:13:07] chrisrico it's not like you did it for free
[18:13:16] nefario AND MY FUNDING
[18:13:25] shareholder3_ you are both right somewhat, but lets look forward now
[18:13:34] chrisrico but at least 75% OUR funding
[18:13:41] ColdHardMetal 83% actually
[18:13:43] shareholder3_ and mine.. we could go on like kids in the kinderdarden the whole time..
[18:13:58] nefario yeah this isn't going anywhere in this train of thought
[18:14:03] shareholder4 and my funding is bigger than yours.....
[18:14:04] chrisrico there is no forward, shareholder3... nefario is unilaterally shutting down GLBSE
[18:14:09] shareholder3_ debating about their gummibears who got most
[18:14:18] shareholder3_ chris, I know
[18:14:25] ColdHardMetal no it isn't. I've wasted enough time on this over the last year. can we please resolve something so I can just move on.
[18:14:33] nefario chrisrico: I DON:T HAVE A FUCKING CHOICE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND
[18:14:34] shareholder3_ but the simple point is it sthe only viable option
[18:15:09] shareholder1 the simple point is some people are gonna lose bitcoins because they cant AML
[18:15:15] shareholder1 and thats pretty fucked up
[18:15:39] shareholder4 by the way, who's gonna gete those unclaimed bitcoins?
[18:15:46] chrisrico what happens to the bitcoins of the individuals that don't agree to offer their identities?
[18:15:46] ColdHardMetal I have more time invested in this than anyone except Nef. It's done whether he has our consent or not.
[18:15:47] shareholder1 ^^^^
[18:15:55] nefario they don't get it
[18:16:01] chrisrico what happens to it?
[18:16:05] shareholder1 but who gets it ?
[18:16:05] nefario I don't know
[18:16:06] chrisrico you keep it?
[18:16:09] nefario HAHA
[18:16:10] nefario me
[18:16:11] nefario lol
[18:16:11] ColdHardMetal we stick it in a public address and it sits there forever.
[18:16:21] shareholder3_ donate it to hungry kids in africa
[18:16:23] chrisrico that includes shareholder funds?
[18:16:26] da2ce796 ColdHardMetal: yep
[18:16:34] nefario I'll ask the lawyer what we do with the funds that are not claimed
[18:16:42] shareholder3_ is good for them and creates some good PR
[18:16:43] shareholder1 it has to sit in a public address forever
[18:17:00] shareholder1 no forced donation
[18:17:04] shareholder1 thats unethical
[18:17:05] shareholder3_ ok
[18:17:06] nefario shareholder1: I'll put it where the lawyer tells me to
[18:17:13] nefario oh wow
[18:17:21] shareholder1 probably he will suggest that he gets it
[18:17:31] nefario not likely
[18:17:36] shareholder1 are you paying the lawyer from company funds ?
[18:17:37] nefario in which case
[18:17:43] nefario ja
[18:17:53] nefario it's a business cost
[18:17:57] chrisrico what bullshit
[18:18:05] nefario really?
[18:18:10] chrisrico you're acting as if this was YOUR business
[18:18:12] shareholder1 I hope we get a tax deduction lol
[18:18:32] shareholder4 well that solves the problem: there will be no coins left
[18:18:49] shareholder1 shitstorm incoming
[18:18:50] nefario chrisrico: I'm responsible for GLBSE, if you wan't to come along and put your name down and say you ran everything then go ahead
[18:19:05] chrisrico that's not the only option
[18:19:15] chrisrico you could choose to turn over all passwords and funds, and remove yourself from the operation
[18:19:16] nefario whats the other option?
[18:19:18] chrisrico instead you're choosing to hijack it
[18:19:22] nefario no
[18:19:31] shareholder1 Did you use custpomer funds to hire the lawyer ?
[18:19:33] nefario I'd be held responsible for everything up to now
[18:19:38] nefario shareholder1: no
[18:19:42] chrisrico that's a non-sequitur
[18:19:49] shareholder2 nefario: WTF?
[18:19:55] shareholder2 was that the huge cost?k
[18:19:57] chrisrico you're screwing us to cover your own ass, at least own up to it
[18:20:01] shareholder2 the development expenses?!
[18:20:02] shareholder4 nefario: you'll get immunity if you shut it down now?
[18:20:14] shareholder1 shareholder4 and so will we
[18:20:19] shareholder2 OUR money was used for a shitty lawyer who told you to close down GLBSE and devalue our shares to 0?!
[18:20:23] shareholder2 well fuck me
[18:20:29] shareholder1 shareholder4 yes
[18:20:41] nefario shut down and start up with a clean slate
[18:20:52] chrisrico then send me back my 250 BTC right now
[18:21:18] shareholder3_ noone likes losing money or not winning as much as he thought, but nefario is doing the right thing
[18:21:22] shareholder4 so do we get a choice on shutting down?
[18:21:26] shareholder1 no
[18:21:30] da2ce796 chrisrico: when you invest a in a company, you expect that moeny to be spent.
[18:21:39] shareholder4 do we get a choice on how it is shut down?
[18:21:51] shareholder2 GLBSE under illegal operation had a monthly deficit of over 600 or 800BTC because it paid for a lawyer
[18:21:56] chrisrico da2ce796: not for the purpose of dissolving the company and holding funds hostage
[18:21:57] shareholder2 how do you imagine it will work out legally
[18:22:01] shareholder2 aaaaahahaha
[18:22:06] shareholder1 lol
[18:22:14] shareholder2 at least i lost my money in a comical way
[18:22:17] shareholder1 the lawyer made bank :P
[18:22:28] shareholder2 fucking lawyer parasite
[18:22:33] nefario guys
[18:22:35] shareholder1 seconded
[18:22:36] nefario cut the shit
[18:22:41] da2ce796 chrisrico: well I think that you can just suck eggs, because you beiing angry isnt going to change anything, or help anything.
[18:22:44] nefario you're acting like teens
[18:22:51] nefario we're dealing with the real world
[18:22:53] nefario for what we're doing
[18:22:58] shareholder1 it is pretty hilarious
[18:22:58] shareholder2 you suddenly discovered that
[18:22:58] nefario it NEEDS lawyers
[18:23:00] shareholder2 and closed down
[18:23:01] shareholder2 suddenly
[18:23:05] nefario no
[18:23:08] shareholder2 yes
[18:23:08] nefario ffs
[18:23:21] chrisrico you're unbelievable, nefario
[18:23:29] shareholder1 I forget the part where we had a motion to hire a lawyer
[18:23:35] shareholder3_ well nefario said that he thought that it was in a grey area and now its red
[18:23:45] shareholder3_ simple and yes, noone likes it but it the truth
[18:23:50] shareholder2 he spent my money on making my money vanish
[18:23:52] shareholder2 that's the truth
[18:23:53] shareholder4 how much of our BTC was spent on lawyers?
[18:24:02] shareholder2 and his money too
[18:24:08] shareholder3_ and I thought the same, .. yes thats how it is
[18:24:10] shareholder1 do we get a receipt ?
[18:24:10] chrisrico nefario made some decisions with consequences he cannot live with, and is now saving his own ass at our expense
[18:24:18] shareholder2 exactly
[18:24:22] shareholder4 prettyi much
[18:24:23] shareholder2 what a shameful exit
[18:25:09] chrisrico and somehow he thinks that many in the bitcoin community will want to do business with a ceo who hijacks the company for selfish reasons
[18:25:33] shareholder2 yes, GLBSE legal will be a graet success
[18:25:35] shareholder2 just wait
[18:25:38] da2ce796 chrisrico: and you are not also acting out of shelfish reasons?
[18:25:38] shareholder1 because I spent the coins an nefarios lawyers I cant hire my own lol
[18:25:49] shareholder2 he will be able to afford the lawyer for 2 weeks
[18:26:12] chrisrico da2ce796: I'm not fucking anyone over in my stead, though
[18:26:41] da2ce796 chrisrico: well I think that you can just foregt about your 250 btc.
[18:26:52] chrisrico da2ce796: why is that?
[18:26:59] da2ce796 cause they have been spent.
[18:27:04] shareholder3_ nefario, can you comment of the lawyer stuff? costs, how it not only covers you but the entiure glbse operation, etc.?
[18:27:21] shareholder1 https://cuces.soc.srcf.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1309300880715.jpg
[18:27:23] shareholder2 they've been spent on a lawyer so that you can't possibly have your 250 BTC back in the future
[18:27:28] shareholder2 that's the irony of it
[18:27:46] nefario I've not spent any funds on the lawyer yet
[18:27:53] shareholder1 at least he never bought cocaine with it
[18:28:02] nefario does not mean there will not be a bill
[18:28:06] shareholder2 nefario: but they have been deducted as such in the financial statement?
[18:28:15] shareholder2 well, then it's spent
[18:28:25] nefario no
[18:28:37] chrisrico nefario: is this the same lawyer that is representing you personally?
[18:28:39] shareholder2 ?_? what was the huge costs about then?
[18:28:42] nefario ColdHardMetal and I've not had the chance to communicate properly before this meeting
[18:28:44] shareholder2 development and marketing costs
[18:28:46] chrisrico are you paying him with company funds for both roles?
[18:28:59] nefario chrisrico: I'm not being represented personally by a lawyer
[18:29:09] nefario for GLBSE only
[18:29:19] chrisrico [16:36] nefario but the one who is representing me has said that I shouldn't say much
[18:29:21] da2ce796 lol... ok well I'm sick of thise meeting... nefario anything you want help with, just ask.
[18:29:28] shareholder1 thats acceptable
[18:29:35] nefario me/GLBSE the same thing
[18:29:43] nefario for all intents and purposes
[18:29:43] chrisrico yeah, you think so don't you?
[18:29:53] shareholder2 lmao
[18:30:02] shareholder2 yeah
[18:30:06] shareholder2 never mind the shareholders
[18:30:35] chrisrico worst. ceo. evar.
[18:30:57] shareholder3_ chris, this does not hel
[18:31:00] shareholder3_ p
[18:31:04] shareholder2 i'm thinking mpex paid him well to do that
[18:31:22] da2ce796 ColdHardMetal: can we please close this meeting.:
[18:31:25] chrisrico shareholder3_: what do you suggest, then?
[18:31:26] shareholder3_ is there anything we need to discuss now.
[18:31:44] shareholder3_ lets assume glbse will be clsed
[18:31:46] nefario yes there is
[18:31:56] nefario I propose a motion
[18:32:00] shareholder3_ how will the announcement look like?
[18:32:06] shareholder1 ^^^
[18:32:18] shareholder3_ ok. motion
[18:32:35] nefario I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users
[18:32:42] nefario to me
[18:32:43] nefario or
[18:32:44] nefario coldhardmetal
[18:32:55] da2ce796 aye
[18:32:56] shareholder3_ agree
[18:32:57] chrisrico it's interesting that shareholders matter when you want others to give YOU things
[18:32:57] shareholder1 CHM
[18:32:57] nefario can someone second this?
[18:33:10] da2ce796 seocned.
[18:33:10] shareholder4 will you require AML from customers?
[18:33:14] shareholder3_ second
[18:33:23] shareholder2 disagree
[18:33:29] nefario ok not for me but for CHM
[18:33:35] shareholder1 aye
[18:33:40] theymos disagree
[18:33:42] chrisrico nay
[18:33:43] nefario aye
[18:33:46] shareholder4 nefario: will you require AML?
[18:33:54] nefario yes
[18:34:04] shareholder4 even for small sums?
[18:34:11] nefario for everything
[18:34:29] shareholder4 disagree
[18:34:50] nefario ColdHardMetal: you're left to vote on this
[18:35:02] shareholder1 I just wan this to be over ffs.
[18:35:03] ColdHardMetal just a sec
[18:35:06] shareholder2 nefario: 578.45 development expense was (partly) for the lawyer?
[18:35:09] shareholder2 just so i understand
[18:35:14] shareholder2 or whas it marketing/rental
[18:35:26] nefario all dev expenses are for dv
[18:35:28] nefario dev
[18:35:37] ColdHardMetal no, I lumped some unknonws in there.
[18:35:41] shareholder2 ok, then where are the lawyer expenses in the income statement?
[18:35:57] nefario the lawyer has not been paid yet
[18:36:04] shareholder1 they havent been paid yet
[18:36:11] nefario being in the UK I have a serious cash flow problem
[18:36:13] ColdHardMetal then you need yo account for some funds.
[18:36:14] shareholder2 and it's not in the income statement yet?
[18:36:21] nefario no
[18:36:24] ColdHardMetal because I don't know where they went.
[18:36:27] shareholder1 whatever coins we have left will go to the lawyer :P
[18:36:30] shareholder2 niiiiiiice
[18:36:40] theymos We shouldn't pay it. Let Nefario deal with his bills.
[18:36:45] shareholder2 then we probably won't have any money left
[18:36:50] shareholder1 yep
[18:36:52] shareholder2 or GLBSE might even be in debt
[18:36:53] chrisrico nefario: how do you we know you're not lying to us and are going to take the money and run?
[18:37:03] shareholder1 we will need to pay more money :P
[18:37:11] chrisrico you've given us no evidence or information to support your claims
[18:37:12] nefario I have ALL THE OTHER DEPOSITOR MONEY
[18:37:14] shareholder3_ nefario, jyou need to provide visibility on the lawyer rates and for a cost estimate of him
[18:37:25] nefario sure
[18:37:33] shareholder1 GLBSE is insolvent ?
[18:37:35] nefario I'll get reciepts from him when expenses come
[18:37:47] chrisrico nefario: you don't know the rate of the lawyer?
[18:37:49] nefario this is just like the forums
[18:37:50] shareholder3_ but you must ask before what it costs
[18:37:53] shareholder2 are you still using this lawyer at GLBSE cost?
[18:37:56] shareholder2 i suggest you stop that
[18:37:56] shareholder3_ that is standard practice
[18:38:02] shareholder2 because you can't fucking afford it
[18:38:27] shareholder2 seeing as the current income is \85 negative
[18:38:28] ColdHardMetal yeah. you need to stop spending money.
[18:38:31] shareholder1 I dont agree to being liable for a debt if GLBSe cant cover it
[18:38:47] nefario shareholder1: you won't be
[18:38:50] shareholder4 shareholder1: you're not
[18:39:10] nefario the lawyer costs are not a problem
[18:39:13] shareholder2 orly
[18:39:17] shareholder1 ok
[18:39:17] shareholder2 who's going to pay for it?
[18:39:19] nefario yes
[18:39:20] shareholder3_ nefario - can you comitt to present us with the costs of this lawyer?
[18:39:31] nefario I can when I get them
[18:39:32] shareholder2 i thought bitcoinglobal was paying for it
[18:39:51] nefario ColdHardMetal: vote on the motion
[18:40:08] ColdHardMetal let me figure out who voted what first.
[18:40:13] shareholder2 why do you use a motion if you wouldn't be following the result of a motion yourself?
[18:40:18] shareholder2 you have openly stated that
[18:40:54] shareholder1 shareholder2 we cant operate glbse since nefario has the database and user info
[18:41:02] shareholder2 we can
[18:41:05] chrisrico because in THIS case, THEYMOS has the money that NEFARIO wants
[18:41:06] shareholder1 So theres literally nothing we can do
[18:41:27] shareholder3_ guys, lets do this together, fighting internally does not help
[18:41:31] nefario chrisrico: that is users money, not GLBSE's
[18:41:40] shareholder3_ lets finish the motion and move forward
[18:41:44] nefario I don't want it, I'm happy for coldhardmetal to hold it
[18:42:13] nefario we're waiting for cold to toll up the votes so far
[18:42:15] chrisrico theymos can hold it
[18:42:17] shareholder1 I trust chm to do the right thing with it
[18:42:42] ColdHardMetal 57.85% for. My vote doesn't matter. Motion carries.
[18:42:51] shareholder2 that's funny
[18:43:09] shareholder2 nefario who wouldn't observe the result of a motion concerning him forces theymos to do so
[18:43:12] shareholder2 oh well
[18:43:17] chrisrico what happened with the vote to remove nefario as CEO?
[18:43:24] chrisrico out of curiousity
[18:43:24] shareholder1 didnt pass
[18:43:24] ColdHardMetal didn;t pass
[18:43:31] nefario shareholder2: I've not violated the results of any motions
[18:43:34] shareholder3_ so what else
[18:43:38] chrisrico nefario: you stated that you would
[18:43:42] shareholder2 you stated your intent that you would not
[18:43:51] theymos nefario: You're violating the bylaws.
[18:43:52] shareholder2 maybe it affected the motion
[18:43:54] nefario ColdHardMetal: give theymos a BTC address for him to send you the remaining GLBSE user funds he holds
[18:43:54] shareholder4 can we vote on how to handle the shutdown
[18:43:58] shareholder4 ?
[18:44:06] shareholder3_ given that nefario remaisn CEO, lets ask him the questions we want to get answered and he needs to get back to us with answers asap
[18:44:13] chrisrico shareholder4: nope, that's up to nefario and his, I mean OUR lawyer
[18:44:20] shareholder2 our lawyer
[18:44:20] shareholder2 lol
[18:44:24] shareholder1 lol
[18:44:36] chrisrico nefario: given that we are paying for this lawyer, please give us his contact information
[18:44:38] shareholder4 chrisrico: yes but just fot the lulz
[18:44:42] shareholder3_ not about the legal stuff, but the shutdown process i mean
[18:44:51] chrisrico *his or her
[18:44:55] shareholder1 yes what is the lawyers contact info
[18:45:02] shareholder3_ so, when and how will glbse communicate with users?
[18:45:15] ColdHardMetal asap.
[18:45:15] nefario buckworthsolicitors.co.uk/
[18:45:17] shareholder3_ nefario?
[18:45:32] chrisrico and, the lawyer who is handling this, what is their name?
[18:45:32] ColdHardMetal might as well. I don;t want to touch it.
[18:45:41] da2ce796 ok...
[18:45:42] shareholder1 can users contact the lawyer ?
[18:45:46] da2ce796 anything else...
[18:45:51] chrisrico to whom should I ask to speak regarding this matter?
[18:45:53] nefario michael buckworth
[18:46:03] shareholder2 exactly, it is OUR lawyer
[18:46:08] shareholder2 so you have to tell us everything
[18:46:08] nefario but he won't talk to you about any details
[18:46:18] shareholder2 this is our funds that are financing him
[18:46:28] shareholder2 i want full transparency now
[18:46:31] chrisrico he is our lawyer, is he not?
[18:46:34] da2ce796 lol
[18:46:37] shareholder1 lol
[18:46:38] shareholder3_ i suggest whoever whats to call him does it and see what he says.
[18:46:44] shareholder3_ in the meanwhile lets move on
[18:46:46] shareholder3_ what else?
[18:46:48] da2ce796 nefario == GLBSE
[18:46:50] shareholder4 nefario: will we provide a way to migrate assets elsewhere?
[18:46:54] da2ce796 don't you guys get it.
[18:46:55] da2ce796 :P
[18:46:59] chrisrico da2ce796: in what way, exactly?
[18:47:03] da2ce796 chrisrico: legaly.
[18:47:06] shareholder3_ shareholder4 great question
[18:47:09] chrisrico da2ce796: according to whom?
[18:47:17] da2ce796 the UK state
[18:47:21] shareholder2 i didn't sign up for nefario == glbse when i gave him money
[18:47:22] shareholder1 chrisrico technically we dont exist
[18:47:25] shareholder2 didn't sign up for UK either
[18:47:27] nefario shareholder4: yes, I'll try to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth and painless as possible
[18:47:29] chrisrico da2ce796: ah, but GLBSE isn't incorporated in the UK
[18:47:50] shareholder1 but nefario used his credit card :P
[18:47:51] shareholder4 nefario: fair enough, thanks
[18:47:52] shareholder3_ nafaria, can you send around a draft announcement and we can comment on it before you release it?
[18:47:57] shareholder2 my money is now financing a lawyer whose advice i am not allowed to hear
[18:47:57] da2ce796 chrisrico: but dose something have to be incorporated to break the law?
[18:48:00] da2ce796 lol
[18:48:09] shareholder2 and that's fucked up
[18:48:09] da2ce796 anyway I need to get back to my morning.
[18:48:11] chrisrico da2ce796: um, no. but that means nefario broke the law, not GLBSE
[18:48:21] shareholder1 the mafia isnt incorporated either
[18:48:24] da2ce796 chrisrico: I think that you just need to get over it.
[18:48:38] chrisrico good thing I don't really care what you think
[18:48:53] shareholder3_ nafaria, can you send around a draft announcement and we can comment on it before you release it?
[18:48:59] shareholder2 why did nefario not consult a lawyer before starting GLBSE?
[18:49:02] shareholder1 ^^^
[18:49:03] shareholder2 if that's so important
[18:49:18] shareholder3_ thats water under the bridge
[18:49:19] shareholder1 because we hadnt paid for it yet ?
[18:49:20] nefario shareholder2, shareholder1, it wasn't a problem for you when we started before
[18:49:25] shareholder2 ok
[18:49:31] shareholder3_ thanks
[18:49:34] shareholder2 then i want full transparency since it's our lawyer
[18:49:53] shareholder2 anything else is dishonest, nefario
[18:49:57] nefario shareholder2: then you'll have to give your AML info to me and take the same risk I am for GLBSE
[18:50:14] chrisrico oh how the goal posts shift
[18:50:16] shareholder3_ ^^^^ agree, but shareholder2 there may be specifics related to nefario only that he cant release
[18:50:23] shareholder1 I don t have a problem I just think it coulda been handled better with more notice
[18:50:29] chrisrico but nefario stated that the lawyer is NOT representing him, ONLY glbse
[18:50:43] nefario since GLBSE is not a legal entity
[18:50:45] shareholder2 i thought nefario = glbse?
[18:50:47] shareholder3_ ^^^^ nefario?
[18:50:49] nefario I am representing GLBSE
[18:50:52] shareholder3_ you should answer this
[18:50:57] chrisrico so the lawyer is for you personally, then
[18:51:01] chrisrico and is being paid with GLBSE funds?
[18:51:07] shareholder3_ its both, chris
[18:51:33] shareholder3_ and it makes sense as he is exposed
[18:51:47] shareholder2 nefario: i hope for you that you are forced by authorities
[18:51:55] shareholder2 and that it will come out sometime later
[18:52:00] shareholder2 otherwise your reputation is ruined
[18:52:04] shareholder3_ and takes the resposibility (which is a good sign. have you heard nefario blaming us?)
[18:52:21] shareholder2 shutting down GLBSE on a whim because you suddenly don't feel too well about it and consult a lawyer
[18:52:45] chrisrico well, all I can say is that I will do everything within my power to make it known that nefario is not to be trusted within the bitcoin community, since that is the only option available to me
[18:53:04] shareholder3_ how will this help anyone chris?
[18:53:13] shareholder2 shareholder3_: it'll help future investors
[18:53:17] chrisrico it will help those who may otherwise make the mistake of going into business with nefario in the future
[18:53:21] shareholder2 and future customers
[18:53:41] shareholder3_ of clourse you can do what you want, but it would be better for you and everyone to help the wind down of glbse in a clean way
[18:53:45] shareholder2 but as i said, i hope he is really doing this at GUNPOINT
[18:53:48] nefario these are the basic facts the announcement needs to convey: 1) GLBSE is closing, 2) All BTC will be returned to users, 3) Users need to AML, 4) Issuers who are not already verifified will need to do AML, 5) Issuers who have been AML'd will be given all support to move off GLBSE, 6) Users AML'd will be given all support to move their assets off GLBSE
[18:53:48] shareholder2 not at a whim
[18:53:49] chrisrico THIS IS NOT CLEAN
[18:53:52] shareholder3_ without starting open accusations
[18:54:14] shareholder3_ its not a whim, according to what nefario said
[18:54:19] chrisrico just wait until the community finds out they can't get a single satoshi of theirs back without providing whatever identifying information the UK government deems necessary
[18:54:23] chrisrico you think that will be clean?
[18:54:23] shareholder2 shareholder3_: where did he say that?
[18:54:36] shareholder2 this is really all i understood from it
[18:54:47] shareholder4 i don't think the man is really requiring all this AML
[18:54:52] chrisrico and all because nefario can't live up to his own decisions, rather than taking everyone down in his place
[18:54:56] shareholder3_ clearly impl\F6ying it
[18:55:00] shareholder2 basically, he went to that london conference, talked to a lawyer sometime who frightened him
[18:55:06] shareholder1 I doubt he is doing it on a whim
[18:55:15] shareholder4 how about we ask AML only above a threshold?
[18:55:19] shareholder2 shareholder1: i i hope he's not
[18:55:24] shareholder2 i don't want him to be a scammer
[18:55:28] chrisrico what probably happened is that he tried to get the ball rolling on legitimizing GLBSE, which got his ass in legal trouble
[18:55:29] shareholder3_ again, water under the bridge. all fine with the aoouncment content?
[18:55:43] shareholder2 chrisrico: makes sense also
[18:55:55] shareholder4 shareholder3_: not really fine with the AML
[18:56:03] chrisrico ^^^
[18:56:04] shareholder2 i believe he wanted to incorporate
[18:56:06] shareholder3_ again ^^^this is the only viable option for all shareholders
[18:56:08] nefario shareholder4: I've talked about this with the lawyer, because there is no way to prove that one person hasn't oppened dozens of accounts with smaller amounts we have to do aml for everyone
[18:56:10] shareholder2 around the time of the conference
[18:56:19] chrisrico yes, and he started doing so without approval of the shareholders
[18:56:23] chrisrico this should all be on nefario, not us
[18:56:24] shareholder4 getting people money and then requirning AML to get it back is not ethical
[18:56:38] shareholder2 chrisrico: yep. shareholders didn't have the chance to get out before he closed it
[18:56:40] da2ce796 shareholder4: mtgox did that
[18:56:52] shareholder4 da2ce796: so what?
[18:56:56] chrisrico da2ce796: mtgox didn't shut down
[18:57:03] da2ce796 so that was one of the legal costs.
[18:57:19] chrisrico da2ce796: the legal costs of CONTINUING TO OPERATE
[18:57:27] shareholder3_ is there anything else to be decided today.. just asking. havent slept for 36 hours.. but if its important, I will stay
[18:57:30] shareholder4 I suppose a motion about that would be ignored?
[18:57:31] shareholder2 mtgox didn't shut down because it suddenly realized it is illegal
[18:57:31] da2ce796 chrisrico: no, of not going to jail.
[18:57:37] chrisrico shareholder3_: there was never anything to be decided at all
[18:57:44] nefario yes there is
[18:57:48] shareholder1 nefario one question. Do we have any companies who have promised to ipo on a l;egal glbse ?
[18:57:50] nefario well
[18:57:53] nefario no actually
[18:58:02] chrisrico what was that stuff you mentioned from the last shareholder meeting?
[18:58:11] nefario shareholder1: yes
[18:58:14] chrisrico the "big news" that you couldn't share?
[18:58:16] chrisrico oh
[18:58:17] shareholder2 he left us in the dark ever since the london conference
[18:58:28] da2ce796 ok... anything else for this meeting???
[18:58:28] shareholder2 since that time, a lawyer has been in charge of GLBSE
[18:58:31] shareholder3_ nefario?
[18:58:36] nefario shareholder2: you could have come
[18:58:38] da2ce796 becasue I want to get going?
[18:58:54] chrisrico go
[18:58:59] nefario shareholder3_: I don't think there are any other important motions
[18:59:11] nefario unless we need a motion to close down GLBSE
[18:59:25] nefario ColdHardMetal: do we need a motion for that?
[18:59:28] shareholder4 nefario: do we need one?
[18:59:29] shareholder3_ neafario, you must share this info to shareholders. you can aks them to keep it confidential and if breached this person will be punished
[18:59:32] nefario it doesn't mean the end of BG yet
[18:59:59] shareholder3_ what were those big news nefario?
[19:00:09] nefario BitPay
[19:00:18] shareholder3_ tell us more
[19:00:20] shareholder2 what about them?
[19:00:36] nefario wanted to IPO when we sorted out legal shit out
[19:00:50] shareholder1 thats what i thought
[19:00:54] shareholder2 same
[19:01:02] nefario also
[19:01:05] shareholder2 so bitpay killed GLBSE by having you trying to legalize it
[19:01:08] shareholder1 I hope you charge them more than 8 btc lol
[19:01:10] shareholder2 funny
[19:01:29] chrisrico nefario: have you determined if, complying with UK financial regulations, citizens of other countries can invest bitcoin in BG legally?
[19:01:38] chrisrico and that they can do so in amounts as small as we have done?
[19:01:50] shareholder1 BFL needs to help since we give them so much business :P
[19:01:53] shareholder2 nefario, you should check this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.0
[19:02:04] shareholder2 it's a taste of what's going to come i guess
[19:02:10] nefario chrisrico: unless your country specifically says you can't invest in a UK company then you can
[19:02:36] chrisrico so there are no UK regulations regarding foreign investment, or sizes of allowable investment, in UK companies?
[19:03:04] nefario I'm sure there are
[19:03:14] nefario but it doesn't stop you investing
[19:03:15] nefario or being a shareholder
[19:03:23] chrisrico unless there are regulations preventing it...
[19:03:36] nefario shareholder2: thats a really nice link.
[19:03:46] chrisrico in the U.S., the SEC only allows "accredited investors" to invest in companies
[19:03:46] shareholder2 yeah. i guess goat got what he wanted
[19:03:49] shareholder2 as well as mpex
[19:04:05] shareholder1 its gonna be impossible to do anything with a scammer tag :P
[19:04:09] shareholder2 looking forward to MPOE-PR
[19:04:20] nefario shareholder3_: I stopped using the forum
[19:04:48] nefario thats really nice theymos
[19:04:58] nefario couldn't even wait until the meeting was finished
[19:05:01] chrisrico are the people you were talking to at BitPay aware of the circumstances of the GLBSE shutdown?
[19:05:11] shareholder3_ nefario, where will you communicate the closing process
[19:05:13] chrisrico oh, quit acting like a victim here nefario
[19:05:31] shareholder1 yeah youre not gonna be able to offer shares to non accredited US investors
[19:05:33] nefario shareholder3_: email and the GLBSE site
[19:05:42] shareholder3_ ok
[19:05:52] shareholder3_ i will leave now, unless there is anything else to be decided
[19:06:09] shareholder2 nefario: couldn't even wait until he finished selling, either
[19:06:13] nefario shareholder3_: see you
[19:06:25] shareholder3_ one last plea: internal accusations like the one theymos just did do not help anyone, sleep all over it, please
[19:06:26] ColdHardMetal gnight shareholder3
[19:06:34] shareholder4 shareholder3_: goodnight
[19:06:42] shareholder3_ nite
[19:06:42] shareholder2 cu
[19:06:46] shareholder3_ cu
[19:06:47] chrisrico ColdHardMetal: what's your take on all this?
[19:07:00] *** shareholder3_ Quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
[19:07:08] chrisrico you've been awfully quiet...
[19:07:27] ColdHardMetal It's a mess. I odn;t really see any other way out though.
[19:07:56] chrisrico for nefario, you mean? what about everyone else?
[19:08:02] nefario shareholder2: you have no issue selling something you know will be closed?
[19:08:15] shareholder2 i didn't know at the time
[19:08:26] shareholder1 Its useless sellin gshares since the site wont exist
[19:08:30] shareholder2 i only knew you wanted to take it legal
[19:08:41] chrisrico yes, nefario has uniltaterally made our shares worthless
[19:08:42] shareholder2 and we wanted to find people who wanted to own a piece of that
[19:08:54] shareholder2 so that you have more consent
[19:08:58] ColdHardMetal for any of us really. Nef i going to shut it down regardless, so comlaining abou tit doesn't help.
[19:09:00] shareholder2 it would have been mutually good
[19:09:08] shareholder1 what CHM says
[19:09:18] shareholder2 and you knew about it, since we talked about it last meeting
[19:09:38] shareholder2 oh, nvm. i see what you guys mean now
[19:09:45] shareholder2 well, i blame him for closing it, then
[19:09:50] shareholder2 without our consetn
[19:10:09] shareholder2 i can only hope, as i said, that he is doing so at gunpoint
[19:10:32] shareholder2 at least then theymos' accusations would be unjustified
[19:11:27] shareholder4 nefario: will you honor BG shares when you open the new legit company?
[19:11:41] chrisrico only if you submit AML information :)
[19:11:46] shareholder2 hahahahahahaha
[19:11:53] shareholder2 he said he would, yes
[19:11:55] shareholder4 chrisrico: of course
[19:12:00] shareholder2 at what rate is the question :P
[19:12:24] shareholder4 I was thinking they could be made some sort of stock options
[19:12:32] chrisrico whatever rate nefario (GLBSE) decides
[19:12:39] shareholder4 so that they can be traded to interested people
[19:13:10] shareholder1 it wont matter if he issues 4 million shares and we only have the same amount
[19:13:41] shareholder2 he cannot do business in bitcoin world anymore
[19:13:53] nefario thankshi
[19:13:54] nefario sorry
[19:13:55] shareholder2 i mean, it will be hard to
[19:14:02] nefario got a phone call as a result of the forum post
[19:14:09] shareholder1 ah
[19:14:10] da2ce796 ColdHardMetal: has the meeting been adjourned?
[19:14:46] chrisrico maybe you should ask nefario
[19:14:48] nefario shareholder4: yes, current shares will be honored
[19:14:50] ColdHardMetal Well, is there anything else to discuss? Nefario is going to write a statement and send it around for input?
[19:15:01] shareholder2 nefario: i'm sorry if you *really* are being forced to do it for the shit i gave you
[19:15:06] chrisrico why is our input necessary? we're only shareholders
[19:15:36] nefario also
[19:15:36] shareholder2 chrisrico: agreed, nefario = glbse will decide anyway
[19:15:49] nefario theymos has thrown his version out on the forum anyway
[19:16:06] chrisrico his version? are there inaccuracies?
[19:16:10] nefario I think I'll keep it simple and to the fact
[19:16:25] shareholder2 his version seems true to me
[19:16:40] nefario I disagree
[19:16:43] shareholder2 only i think it would be wrong to call him a scammer if the state forces him
[19:17:03] chrisrico I think he is still a scammer regardless
[19:17:21] shareholder2 why? should he go to prison for not complying to their orders?
[19:17:23] shareholder1 nefario will they be in the same proportion even after a share split ?
[19:17:37] nefario you're entitled to your opinion
[19:17:40] chrisrico he made the decisions which led to him getting in trouble with the state (if that is the case). rather than face up to those decisions, he chose to fuck the shareholders, users, and investors over
[19:17:51] nefario shareholder1: share split hasn't gone ahead
[19:17:59] nefario so it will be as they currently stand
[19:18:08] shareholder1 chrisrico no we also made that decision by investing
[19:18:28] ColdHardMetal alright. I guess we're done.
[19:18:30] chrisrico shareholder1: what decision? to give nefario supreme power to shut down our company against our will?
[19:18:39] ColdHardMetal can I get a motion to adjourn?
[19:18:50] shareholder1 nefario isnt shutting it down the state is
[19:18:51] da2ce796 I motion that we adjourn
[19:18:55] chrisrico no, nefario is
[19:18:56] nefario I propose we adjourn
[19:18:56] shareholder1 aye
[19:19:03] chrisrico he has given us NO evidence that he is in legal distress
[19:19:07] nefario I second that motion
[19:19:08] ColdHardMetal seconder?
[19:19:15] shareholder2 chrisrico: i'm not sure he made a decision. it depends whether this is a result of himtrying to incorporate or if this is maybe fallout from pirate
[19:19:16] ColdHardMetal ok, all in favor?
[19:19:25] shareholder4 aye
[19:19:26] da2ce796 aye
[19:19:27] nefario aye
[19:19:29] chrisrico aye
[19:19:30] ColdHardMetal aye
[19:19:35] shareholder2 yes
[19:19:41] ColdHardMetal motioon carries.
[19:19:41] shareholder2 chrisrico: remember the pirate pass throughs on GLBSE and the SEC investigation
[19:19:56] chrisrico shareholder2: and?
[19:20:01] ColdHardMetal meeting adjourned at 1:20 am GMT October 6th, 2012