Forum logs for 30 Nov 2019
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953847 << gotcha. So perhaps I can get an initial dump to you for trilema.com (with > march 2016 archives imported), then you can give the final dump to me for trilema.org? | [05:18] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 15:20:21 mircea_popescu: lobbes, except if you do that, i'd rather do it on trilema.com first | [05:18] |
| lobbes: | in other news bracket linking now functional in mpwp logger. Tip of the hat again to asciilifeform, as I ended up lifting his bracket linking code verbatim from the reader.py | [05:18] |
| * lobbes | continues first thing tomorrow, but for now sleeps | [05:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953885 - tbh I think we do I've been mulling this for a while ie I'm not happy with the full V setup as it is - at least as it is for me currently - but so far it never made it to the front to push for some solution. | [14:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 17:10:06 mircea_popescu: do we have a problem there, is it ? | [14:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, ideologically the thing stood at "let development be painful-er than entirely painless, it'll produce better code in the end". | [16:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | then again, that was pushed through in a different context, maybe needs reexamination | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: trouble is that it's *not* development that is painful-er, not at all it's...publishing that is painfuller and I doubt that has any merits. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | should add that I think the problem is relatively superficial ie one of tools as they currently stand, not one of principles. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | and then ofc something stares me in the face but I can't yet even fully scope it, gah. | [17:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, HOW was that hour spent ? | [17:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | taylorism ftw, half the time the problem's one of "you know, if you set out the tools on the bench BEFORE you got the hot piece out of the oven, rather than run around the smithy holding a chunk of red iron while looking for things..." | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: mno, it's not just a matter of "tools were not set out properly" tools were set out and there was no time lost gathering them or whatever yes, there is some inevitable delay when using key, for obv reason but by now that part is as streamlined as it can currently be. | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you can say "you're an idiot, set out your workbench better" maybe it is that I think there's more to it though but probably I'll have to find some time to scope it and write it down. | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | it can be said also that "well, 2 lines of change taking 10 minutes to do should NOT HAVE BEEN a vpatch" | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | because a vpatch comes with such a large overhead | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | maybe that is true though I think it shouldn't be. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that I specifically packed more than just the initial change that you were pushing, precisely because of this issue - the overhead on a vpatch means that small but useful changes will have to wait to accumulate. | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, the hour was spent: ~10 minutes figuring out the change and making it directly on my blog so that the results were clear ~30 minutes for full vpatch process: retrieve+press current v-tree to head make code + manifest file changes test press of result & check + final sign ~20 minutes for write-up + upload + overall final check. | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | the grating thing being also that the only alternative I see would be "drop it in the logs/blog" as a clue/how-to and then keep searching for it or something. | [17:31] |
| feedbot: | http://qntra.net/2019/11/man-convicted-of-terror-plot-and-released-in-december-2018-shot-while-stabbing-near-london-bridge/ << Qntra -- Man Convicted Of Terror Plot And Released In December 2018 Shot While Stabbing Near London Bridge | [17:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | im not saying that lol | [17:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | honestly it doesn't seem to me the breakdown you have is unreasonable. it will take some time to write things up. this time SHOULD be taken, there's no benefit from "oh, let me mention things vaguely and anti-usefully in the log", it's worse than nothing, it's a cost upon the future. | [17:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, that time shouldn't be excessive but 20 minutes hardly strikes me as excessive, dunno, is the argument here ? | [17:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | arguably a press + vdiff + test press + sign shouldn't be half an hour, but it seems to me by now we're trying to measure the measuring tool, it's not even clear the measurement tolerance is narrower than the width of that "shouldn't". by how much shouldn't it be half hour. | [17:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | maybe the problem here is one of expectations management. | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: no, it's neither about the write up (after all, I did it *because* I considered it needed) nor about the 20 minutes on it it's about the fact that a vpatch containing ~30 hours worth of changes would have taken ~similar in writeup and the rest. | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | hence the "will have to wait until they accumulate" | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, 30 minutes not 30 hours. | [17:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's 30 minutes worth of changes ? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | code changes that took 30 minutes, lol not sure how can one define it more precisely in the general like that, it depends on a lot of things after all. | [18:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | but maybe here's where it is buried. | [18:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | what, should there be more lines ? | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | no, it's not about the loc and I specifically did not mention loc. | [18:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guarantee you it'd have taken anyone else > 30 minutes to figure the shit out. just because you have the massiva advantage of perfect familiarity doesn't mean so much, | [18:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | as the man said, "you wanted me to design a typeface, it takes 10 minutes + a lifetime dedicated to preparing for those 10 minutes" | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | well, the way this goes then is simply this - I should have passed the vpatch making on to a more junior person then because ok, familiarity -> figure the shit out but the fixed cost of vpatch packaging is what it is | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | maybe. | [18:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | incidentally -- there's a divergence in your patch. on the first heading you say and comment_type = '' but on the second heading you say | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | + < ?php wp_list_comments('type=comment') ? > | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's really the same conditional, shouldn't it rather be and comment_type = comment' ? | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu: that's in mpwp, what can I do if it does same thing in 2 different ways? | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | in one place it does a direct select in db in the other it uses its own function and that has its own parameters | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it annoyed me. | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | you're doing the same thing in two different ways -- one place you ask for an empty type, the other for a "comment" type | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | the function is just a wrapper on the exact same thing, wp_list_comments('type=comment') is exactly SELECT * FROM $wpdb->comments WHERE comment_approved = '1' and comment_type = 'comment' | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | it's mpwp that does same thing in two different ways all I do is to conform to its different ways and no in db the comment_type is (as I checked) with 3 distinct values: empty string, "trackback" or "pingback" | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | no "pings" for instance but that wp_list_comments method has specific parameters at least according to docs | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | respectively "comment" or "pings" | [18:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | no fucking wayu, really this dumb ?! | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | so that's on mpwp not on me | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | what can I tell you. | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | this sort of shit is what I spent those 10 minutes on. | [18:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty fucking retarded. | [18:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, this is then a mpwp guffaw, should evidently stick to one convention. | [18:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile from the neener department : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-30#1953933 <-> http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/29/comments-filtering-for-mp-wp/?b=And&e=I#select | [18:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 14:16:26 diana_coman: no, it's not about the loc and I specifically did not mention loc. | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, I did not mention it referred to my answer to your question aka http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-30#1953930 | [18:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 14:10:35 diana_coman: code changes that took 30 minutes, lol not sure how can one define it more precisely in the general like that, it depends on a lot of things after all. | [18:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | :p | [18:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | im thinking... maybe the best kind of patch available is the one that takes the maker ten minutes to make. | [18:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | or in broader words : maybe we deeply misunderstand HOW to score what we do with computers. when to feel good, when not to, what to be happy or sad about | [18:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | dunning kruger, rite. | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's just that I remembered why I had taken a break from computers, can be. | [18:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [18:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | why was that ? | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | because they are sufferable only in small doses really and even then I'm not sure it's not just ..for contrast. | [18:25] |
| * diana_coman | will bbl | [18:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22error%3A+%27thd_lib_detected%27+undeclared%22&t=ffsb&ia=web << in other lulz. | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | clearly the web's such a repository of information. | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-01#1949228 - since this came up in #o recently - I can see the point of taking trackbacks out of the comments rss too but at the same time I *want* to know of new trackbacks to my blog - how would that happen exactly? | [20:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 22:46:01 mircea_popescu: anyways -- i dun think a blog should list pingbacks either in the comment rss or in the "new comments" navbar. | [20:45] |
| diana_coman: | at moderation time only? | [20:46] |
| diana_coman: | and more to the point: trackbacks *are* conversation namely via articles so I'd rather see also trackbacks to other blogs that I follow, hm. | [20:47] |
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