Forum logs for 20 Jun 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
BingoBoingo: Watching Naked Gun 33 1/3, my how rauchy comedy fell between there and Retard Pie pocas años despues [00:12]
BingoBoingo: The question is, which year in the 90s did Pantsuit win [01:07]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ever seen "kiss me, stupid" ? [02:52]
mircea_popescu: kinda what all these are derived from, hardblown, method-acted comedy. it's a cinematic adaptation of a roadshow style of entertainment (much like the "high class production" fred astaire / frank sinatra etc were in try to steal broadway for the studios) [02:53]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in body art, [04:23]
mircea_popescu: what you is, you get!!! [04:24]
mircea_popescu: in other, ongoing lulz of the endless saga : "*** stack smashing detected ***: <unknown> terminated" << wine (as bundled with the shitty ubuntu in question, v 3.0-1) abuses "stack protection" to crash perfectly fine programs (in this case, king's bounty - warriors of the north). [04:39]
mircea_popescu: so one, obviously, is stuck installing a proper wine on the system, because fuck me if i'm not getting off beginner island (VERY fucking annoying manifestation of the bug -- crashes you in the final battle, with that asswipe eric). [04:39]
mircea_popescu: "configure: error: no suitable flex found." doh. so you install flex. "configure: error: no suitable bison found." [04:41]
diana_coman: lol [04:42]
diana_coman: go hunt a bison1 [04:42]
mircea_popescu: holy shit, they manage to include NOTHING (i also had to include a c compiler myself earlier. and fucking make.) in those 2GB of bloat that ARE ANTIUSEFUL!!! [04:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-09 13:05 mircea_popescu: b) install gcc. and then make. because it SHIPS WITHOUT THESE. and then of course discover the current versions don't match what the kernel was compiled with. [04:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-02 15:50 mircea_popescu: remarkable just how useless computers are these days. so first, i chugged in 2gb of ubuntu. the moment it came up it wanted to get a further 450mb of "updates". then it turns out ~every game out there has pretty much outsourced its distribution (and, i suspect, debugging, such as it is) to steam (with a minor gog presence as well). so you gotta install steam. that's only 50mb or so, but a third layer by now. [04:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-19 19:59 mircea_popescu: meanwhile continuing the nonsense : wine doesn't work worth a shit on the new ubuntu. it never worked splendidly, granted, but it was quite workable last i looked into this half decade ago. it degraded significantly. for instance, after a bunch of installing various, i'm left with a taskbar fulla dead icons. (well, in fairness they bring up a transparent exclamation point in a tria [04:42]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman why bison1 specifically btw ? [05:05]
diana_coman: neah, meant bison! lol [05:07]
diana_coman: it's quite typical though [05:07]
mircea_popescu: needing bison ? well yeah, xml wasn't enough, gotta gnu [05:08]
mircea_popescu: or do you mean, "shipping broken" ? cuz sure, it is, but what the fuck did they put in those FOUR cds ? the gfx is shitty, the accessibility broken and the compiling dun werk. [05:09]
diana_coman: shipping broken + "install flex" "oh, but ALSO bison ofc" [05:11]
diana_coman: pretty much when they ask for flex, bison follows [05:11]
mircea_popescu: and speaking of terrible accessibility : they changed the taskbar structure from purely linear to a sorta broken tree, so that all terminals snap together into a single terminal icon (holy shit WHY, everyone's taskbar is 90% terms and that is THE ONLY REASON to even HAVE clickable taskbars) so now i have to do two clicks, one to bring up a derpy bubble and a second to bring up the wanted terminal, which blows btw because n [05:11]
mircea_popescu: ow i'm riding scaled down text. [05:11]
mircea_popescu: so i brought back screen to manage the term sessions for these idiots. THIS is the sense of progress : from 10.04 to 18.04, they lost terminal management, i'm back to screen. i didn't actually use it in 10.04 [05:12]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman there is that yeah [05:12]
mircea_popescu: ubuntu, made by people who don't understand computers for people who don't need computers. [05:14]
diana_coman: I'm not sure the 2 groups are any different really [05:15]
mircea_popescu: in ongoing lulz. [05:21]
mircea_popescu: does anyone by any chance remember which the fuck trilema article contained this image of a chavy teenage chick, straddling a dude in a car, knees bent, jeans still on but lifted off her cunt, shoving the dude underneath's manhood into her cunt with the left hand ? [06:16]
mircea_popescu: can't fucking find anything on this blog of mine, by now it's taking longer to amass the references than it takes to write a god damned article. [06:17]
mircea_popescu: in ongoing lulz : [07:02]
mircea_popescu: people who code, the intellectual legacy. [07:02]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : you may build and even install a proper wine (ie, configured without the derp-ass gcc "stack protection", that evidently doesn't work) and it'll even work, system-wide. however that doesn't mean playonlinux won't stick to its sadder, older version. and of course you can't just force-copy symlinks over in its holy directory, because they're all brokenly relative, and gns resolution works as shown in that p [07:04]
mircea_popescu: aste. [07:04]
mircea_popescu: well so let's see here : i can't play, because after sinking however many hours in chasing dependencies and fixing assorted if widely distributed breakage the end story is that "foss" has managed to really give the whole game away -- there is ONE chain, consisting of play on linux so-and-so using wine-so-and-so on ubuntu this-and-that, and you pray it works -- because if it doesn't work, THAT IS IT, "there was an error" li [09:13]
mircea_popescu: ke in the windows days, entirely and utterly unfixable. there's no alternate paths anymore, you can't get wine x to work with pol y anymore than you can get a chunk of windows nt to drop-in replace some chunk of windows vista. [09:13]
mircea_popescu: and i can't write, because i need a reference i can no longer find.i have no fucking idea how to fix this sort of problem, nor do i truly speaking expect it'll ever get fixed. so w/e, i guess ima trash this thousand words and move on. except the specter of "there's an X% chance you won't be able to complete the article you wish to write" is sufficiently chilling to permanently discourage one from even starting. [09:14]
mircea_popescu: and so... i guess ima go garden or something. [09:14]
mircea_popescu: computers are not ready for use. [09:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which reference that could not find ? [09:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform [09:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 10:16 mircea_popescu: does anyone by any chance remember which the fuck trilema article contained this image of a chavy teenage chick, straddling a dude in a car, knees bent, jeans still on but lifted off her cunt, shoving the dude underneath's manhood into her cunt with the left hand ? [09:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was either in a very classic ro trilema ( that i did not eat yet ) or elsewhere entirely ( in-chan lnk ) [09:50]
* asciilifeform pretty certain he'd remember if had seen such a thing as described above [09:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'wine' breakage -- i'm not aware that the opensores 'wine' ever worked even with ancient gamez. the 'play on linux' thing iirc uses the commercial (formerly payware) version, which iirc includes actual libs copied wholesale from microshit. i.e. cocktail of oddball crapola and ~actual microshit~. so, unsurprised that it barfs. [10:08]
asciilifeform: problem as it is, is even older than linuxism -- recall in '90s, 'dr-dos', and how worked with only ~some~ msdos proggies but not others, given as people wrote 'for msdos', i.e. intimately wedded to the bugs and undocumented misfeatures etc [10:10]
asciilifeform: ( even moar outrageously, the actual msdos 6.22 sores leaked ~fully 20 yrs ago~ and devs of 'dosbox' opensores emulator ~still~ afaik use dr-dos/pc-dos 'mostly' compatible, entirely uninformed from the leak... ) [10:14]
asciilifeform: or, for that matter, a full (afaik) win2k sores snapshot leaked in early 2000s. but did the 'wine' people win from it ? guess. 'ohnoez, mustn't read leaked sores, damns yer soul to hell' or what did the idjits say. [10:15]
asciilifeform: entirely consistent, imho, with the picture given upthread re the whole orchestra. [10:16]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-19 16:38 asciilifeform: 'modern linux komyooniti' is quite loyal organ of 'tame opposition', the occasional 20m of biodegradable monopoly money gifted to the occasional esr (who incidentally is begging for change to buy wheelchair, reportedly his legs went) goes long way [10:16]
asciilifeform: the microshit leaks thing was asciilifeform's 1st adult life encounter with 'unhappenings'(tm)(r) [10:20]
asciilifeform: 'bbut they can't keep secret worth a shit, here's this .zip, shows you where are all the caltrops' 'shuddup, it neverhappened, why wouldja even mention such a thing, terrorist' [10:21]
asciilifeform: i.e. exact preview of the 2013 'movie', where the nsa radiobugism docs leaked, and yet somehow still 'why wouldja want emshielded comp, paranoiac'. or heartbleed , and then somehow still 'openssl is standard, shuddup and Don't Write Own Crypto(tm)(r), terrorist' [10:23]
asciilifeform: this gets even lulzier : there is , for instance, 'react os' , an attempt at a full opensores clone of win2k. but does it run even 1 game w/out crashing? guess. cuz 'ohnoez, we won't read leaked' etc, for 9000th time. [10:27]
asciilifeform: i.e. loyal servants of reich, exactly like the previous set of derps, or the 'rezistenta prin cultura'(tm)(r) idjits in ro [10:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-16 14:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a name for this, 'kitchen intellectuals' [10:29]
asciilifeform: torvalds's orig linux may have been a naturally occurring fungus, but i'm quite satisfied that 'wine' was written from day1 to prevent an actual working winblows substitute. [10:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it worked fine, i played heroes etc on it last time around (cca 2010 or so) [10:53]
mircea_popescu: it didn't work ALWAYS, and yes, precisely dr. dos problem as you describe it. [10:53]
mircea_popescu: but it didn't work when ti didn't work because of the program in question using exotic weird, not because "we shoot selves in foot with buggy half-working gcc stack protection misfeature" [10:55]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other side-benefits of image scouring trilema, [11:00]
scriba: TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable (file "modules/", line 59, in archive_a_url) [11:00]
mircea_popescu: o.O [11:03]
hanbot: << >> [11:15]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 10:16 mircea_popescu: does anyone by any chance remember which the fuck trilema article contained this image of a chavy teenage chick, straddling a dude in a car, knees bent, jeans still on but lifted off her cunt, shoving the dude underneath's manhood into her cunt with the left hand ? [11:15]
mircea_popescu: holy shit yes! [11:18]
mircea_popescu: tyvm [11:18]
asciilifeform: ha, i was right, it ~was~ in an old ro piece asciilifeform not yet ate [11:32]
asciilifeform: << funnily enuff iirc '10 was the last time i tried to run game in 'wine'. never got audio to work. ( possibly on acct of never having poettering's audio libs, which i think it demands ) [11:33]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 14:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it worked fine, i played heroes etc on it last time around (cca 2010 or so) [11:33]
mircea_popescu: apparently. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh, there's no such thing as sorta-clean toilet. [11:33]
asciilifeform: imho subj is moar of a pit latrine than toilet, difficult to speak of 'clean' [11:35]
mircea_popescu: quite. [11:35]
asciilifeform: pretty curious re the stack smash thing tho [11:35]
asciilifeform: whose misfeature ~was~ it, wine's, microshit's, or gcc's ? [11:35]
mircea_popescu: gcc's [11:36]
mircea_popescu: wine necessarily fucks around with the stack, as part of what it DOES. [11:36]
asciilifeform: afaik gcc's 'stack protection' simply consists of extra turd in stack frame, whose presence then is confirmed before a subroutine ret's. microshit, incidentally, has a similar one. BUT iirc they use diff sizes and contents of the turd. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: if you compile it with -fstack-protector it fails in this manner (not just on this game, but many). if you compile it without, it works fine -- however the downstream tree (playonlinux etc) can't very well be coerced to use it. [11:37]
asciilifeform: ( gcc's -- is toggleable, but can't immediately recall just how ) [11:37]
asciilifeform: aa [11:37]
mircea_popescu: which is the problem here -- there's nothing open source about this atrocity. [11:38]
asciilifeform: there afaik never was -- it's a wrapper around buncha .dll lifted directly from winblowz cd [11:38]
feedbot: << Trilema -- Kiss Me Stupid [11:39]
mircea_popescu: ^ kidna curious if anyone can tell the fracture, whereby mp couldn't find what he wanted, lost interest. [11:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform play on linux ? no, it's basically a multi-mb pile of "useful python scripts" for running wine. basically, it's automake for windows proggies running in wine. [11:40]
mircea_popescu: the problem being that by now it escaped any sort of human control. [11:40]
asciilifeform: was speaking of wine per se. [11:40]
mircea_popescu: wine per se is an attempt to implement the windows api in posix. [11:41]
asciilifeform: was. turned into... this [11:42]
asciilifeform: ( cuz, elementarily, the dr-dos problem, good chunk of winblowz api aint documented -- in any sense, not even internally at microshit ) [11:42]
mircea_popescu: i've not been following tbh [11:43]
asciilifeform: essentially continuation of the 1980s, ad infinitum [11:43]
mircea_popescu: aaand meanwhile, managing to bash a non-protected hand-compiled wine in the playonlinux hairball has exposed the underlying error : 002b:fixme:d3d_shader:print_glsl_info_log 0(24) : warning C7050: "vs_out[11]" might be used before being initialized [11:50]
mircea_popescu: there's a broken shader / nvidia card issue at work here, it's not what i thought at first, pure spuriousness. [11:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which nvidia hairball was this box running -- the opensores one, or vendor's turd ? [11:51]
mircea_popescu: vendor's. [11:52]
feedbot: << Qntra -- Iran Shoots Down 100+ Million USD Spy Drone [11:53]
mircea_popescu: i suspect what's happening is that the gl is trying to do depth comparison on a texture with no depth, through a sampling shader. which... [11:53]
mircea_popescu: at least now it's crashing properly, so i know what the fuck to do. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: "stack protectors" are such a dumbass idea, i swear. who are they supposed to help ? the dumb user doesn't need the stack protected, he needs programs that don't smash it. and the smart user doesn't need fucking blindfolds on, he needs honest, informative and actionable errors. wtf "generic fault of a generic type" [11:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also. [11:57]
a111: Logged on 2015-08-13 18:52 asciilifeform: mats: folks who begin from 'mitigation' position, cannot win by definition. they aren't even trying to. just to 'lose more slowly' [11:57]
mircea_popescu: myeah [11:57]
asciilifeform: ftr the item in q is more commonly known as 'stack canary' [11:58]
asciilifeform: and is an exactly typical 'mitigationism' [11:59]
asciilifeform: exactly from same school of thought as, e.g., 'aslr' [11:59]
mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever, i'm not gonna debug shaders now. muh kb-wotn is broken and that's that. [12:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this kinda thing is how the various nintendos stay alive. consolist dun have to fiddle w/ gpu drivers etc, plugs in cartridge and gets his tetris in coupla milliseconds, 0 brain req'd [14:07]
asciilifeform: ditto ipnojeism etc. or for that matter the classical msdos envir was pretty close to this. [14:09]
asciilifeform: i.e. where errybody can be assumed to have ~exactly same~ iron/os state. [14:10]
asciilifeform: tho even in msdos pc clone era, already 1st 'swallows of spring' of this were visible, i still recall the time of 9000 incompatible sound cards etc [14:12]
mircea_popescu: trinque [15:34]
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell danielpbarron Was this latest DDoS another member of your fan club? [16:19]
feedbot: << Qntra -- Florida City Pays 600,000 USD Ransomware Demand [17:04]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is there a ddos ? [17:10]
BingoBoingo: There was [17:10]
BingoBoingo: Danielpbarron reported triggering one with his evangelism earlier today in #Pizarro: <danielpbarron> << another ddos [17:11]
mircea_popescu: i c [17:17]
BingoBoingo: I'm inclined to suggest to danielpbarron that when evangelizing on EFNet he use a different bouncer per the Pizarro good neighbor policy [17:20]
mircea_popescu: sadly i can't load that. [17:20]
BingoBoingo: For me it is loading on one browser and not the other [17:23]
asciilifeform: dun load here either [17:38]
asciilifeform: dulap , interestingly, unaffected, loox like it's just uy1 that is bogged [17:39]
BingoBoingo: Aite, so what happened is the DC had the ip nullrouted to mitigate the attack. [17:39]
asciilifeform: ?! [17:40]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to request that dc perma-refrain from monkeying with our ip space. [17:40]
asciilifeform: it dun do any good [17:40]
asciilifeform: i do recommend that danielpbarron upgrade to a rk, however [17:40]
asciilifeform: uy1 is really meant for low to moderate-traffic www [17:42]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It did do good in making everything else on Pizarro accessible. [17:42]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: did they do this last time around also? cuz to date i have not once observed any problem accessing dulap [17:43]
asciilifeform: except for the time BingoBoingo elbowed the nic plug [17:43]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This is the first time. [17:44]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as i said, dulap was entirely reachable last time. [17:45]
asciilifeform: ( as was, e.g., diana_coman's rk & qntra ) [17:46]
BingoBoingo: During both events today, machines other than UY1 became inaccessible including Qntra and my rockchip [17:46]
asciilifeform: the shell i've had scrolling dulap log since 11 feb, didnt skip a beat, fwiw. [17:47]
asciilifeform: i do not begrudge danielpbarron his ddos laboratory, but imho he really oughta do it on rk. [17:48]
BingoBoingo: Well, he created datapoints. That's done. Now the thing is this is interfering with the serivce of other customers. [17:49]
BingoBoingo: And the way he is proviking this very much seems to be a case of [17:50]
asciilifeform: also it'd be 1 thing if he were running a qntra and it were ddosed by washington. but i dun even get wtf he is doing, for what. [17:50]
BingoBoingo: He's evangelizing his church on EFNet where there are no cloaks [17:50]
asciilifeform: not that i necessarily demand to understand what customer does with his box. but in this case it isn't w/out problem for piz & the other residents. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's doing basically his own version of to exactly the same results. [17:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i.e. bombshell article ? i must've missed. ( mircea_popescu do you have a cached copy ? ) [17:53]
mircea_popescu: nah, the point of similarity is "things derps don't want to be said", not "things of substance". [17:54]
mircea_popescu: if you're going by vermin's reaction, you can't introduce the spurious criterion of "is this delicious from my pov". [17:54]
mircea_popescu: from varmint's pov, glue and cake, ~=. [17:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from i got impression that he was poking stick into anthills, but was not able to discern what stick and what sorta anthill. [17:54]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 21:11 BingoBoingo: Danielpbarron reported triggering one with his evangelism earlier today in #Pizarro: <danielpbarron> << another ddos [17:54]
asciilifeform: i'ma let the man speak for self tho. but meanwhile problem , danielpbarron is paying for service but aint getting it, cuz unplugged meanwhile other uy1 people also paying, and ditto [17:55]
asciilifeform: e.g. hanbot [17:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not demand 'delish from my pov', no. [17:57]
BingoBoingo: His latest post: [17:58]
asciilifeform: would even be open to helping danielpbarron with his ddos magnet laboratory. BUT would really prefer if he took it to rk, so we can move him around b/w ips w/out affecting other folx. [17:58]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The thing is we have one pipe. That your dulap scroll continued has an element of luck. DDoS lab requires more routing than we have implemented. [18:00]
asciilifeform: a heathen isp at this pt would've either dropped his subscription or charged tenfold. but we aint a heathen isp, and for so long as subscriber is willing to pay the actual cost of what he is eating, we gotta service him. [18:02]
asciilifeform: not to mention, gotta establish process re tcp ddosen. tomorrow could be e.g. qntra instead. [18:03]
asciilifeform: the fundamental boojum is that tcpism makes 'cost of ddos' open-ended . but this is problem with tcpism, and the only final solution is 'gossipd-only hosting' with wot-only direct peering. but we aint there yet.. [18:04]
BingoBoingo: Indeed, but a shared IP clearly isn't the place to do it. Historically republican doctrine has been to wait out DDoS attacks, but keeping everyone else up is a problem [18:04]
asciilifeform: hence asciilifeform's ' danielpbarron, plz consider rk '. [18:05]
BingoBoingo: There also seems to me that there is difference in DDoS aiming to target a website and a DDoS targeting an IRC user out of some sort of behavioral retraining effort. [18:07]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho mircea_popescu had a point, it is not for me to say what danielpbarron does with his box, whether he wants to preach 11th century heresies or serve up wikilix etc. but indeed the pipe is not made of rubber, something has to give. [18:09]
asciilifeform: atm even piz's own www is unplugged as result of this. [18:12]
asciilifeform: (given as lives on uy1) [18:12]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the difference ? [18:23]
BingoBoingo: I'm mulling it over. It seems like he is going into their spaces, taking a piss, and getting told not to do that. Repeatedly. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure he is. [18:27]
mircea_popescu: if one's systematically dedicated to not doing anything useful, sooner or later one necessarily finds himself burning all his time on dumb shit. [18:27]
mircea_popescu: that sort of infantile misbehaviour eminently fits the bill. [18:27]
asciilifeform: near as i can tell , he's been doing only this, and for more than yr [18:29]
asciilifeform: when asciilifeform was a boy, also liked the good ol' ants + magnifying glass. but did not sit and do ~only~ it... [18:30]
BingoBoingo: Which is why I bring the thing up here. I'm not certain what to do. I am rather certain that whatever is done, a shared shell isn't the place to repeatedly draw aggro after having done so the first few times. [18:31]
mircea_popescu: would also immensely help if pizarro was significantly larger by now. [18:33]
mircea_popescu: as a factual matter, you know going into the game that sooner or later, this sorta thing will happen. [18:34]
BingoBoingo: Indeed [18:34]
mircea_popescu: your only chance to do things like to any degree of efficacity is being big enough. the birth of an isp is basically starting a timer, "will we make it before" [18:34]
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 21:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to request that dc perma-refrain from monkeying with our ip space. [18:34]
lobbes: small update: I've been inundated the last few weeks with $saltmines work tsmr work ~0 during this time. however, these next two weeks will be somewhat clearer so I'll be back to eating through modlisp [20:58]
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