Forum logs for 01 Dec 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude i just realised THATS MY RABBIT [00:01]
asciilifeform: whos else's rabbit could it be. [00:01]
mircea_popescu: i guess huh [00:01]
BingoBoingo: lol Did cazalla ship it to you before or after slaughter? [00:01]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo apparently not actually mine ( ). the tile got me confused. [00:02]
asciilifeform: looks quite similar . [00:03]
BingoBoingo: Classic Trilema, why not linked in the lazy libertard series? [00:03]
mircea_popescu: nfi. [00:04]
BingoBoingo: Big Corpus problems. [00:09]
mircea_popescu: gotta be. [00:10]
asciilifeform: 'I thought that /dev/random (as opposed to /dev/urandom) was already based on entropy from physical noise, as recorded by sensors (I think including mouse, keyboard and temperature). Sounds like they're trying to make a big deal out of addressing a theoretical vulnerability, which is irrelevant in practice.' << glorious [00:13]
mircea_popescu: lol. [00:15]
mircea_popescu: what'll those dastardly terrorists think of next! [00:17]
asciilifeform: << btw >> >> 'SeattleGENI is now the Seattle Clearinghouse. New to Seattle? We suggest you first learn about Seattle before using Clearinghouse, a resource sharing website.' [00:18]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 04:27 deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...1817 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US NY) [00:18]
asciilifeform: ^ motherland of ben_vulpes ? [00:18]
mircea_popescu: "learn about seattle" ? this whole "educating" libertard bullshit. it's not a town see, it's a seattle, you gotta "learn about windows" lest you approach it with reasonable expectations and methodologies. o no, you gotta first fuck your head into a seattleshape. [00:19]
mircea_popescu: nuts. [00:19]
asciilifeform: seattlification for dummiez!!11 [00:19]
mircea_popescu: how about seattle learns about little fucking old me. [00:20]
mircea_popescu: and in other shitlord news, [00:23]
asciilifeform: << obligatory vintage butthurt re same ^ [00:24]
mircea_popescu: "he's not really a monkey, he's just a sarin gas peddler" [00:25]
mircea_popescu: sound defense. [00:25]
mod6: NoSuchLabs: Congrats! [00:30]
asciilifeform: ty mod6 [00:30]
mircea_popescu: now buy one! [00:30]
mod6: haha, i certainly will. probably wont be order for a day or so... think you'll have enough to meet the demand? [00:34]
mod6: *be able to order [00:34]
mircea_popescu: that all depends on teh demand. [00:34]
mircea_popescu: but we'll fill the orders in order so. [00:34]
mod6: fair enough. [00:34]
* asciilifeform has monumentally 0 idea how much demand. [00:34]
mircea_popescu: " I thought just moving your mouse or doing something on the computer already fills up /dev/random, and it's only a big problem on major servers. Is this not right?" << there's a SHOCKING amount of this. nsa's doing god's work with these people, absolutely. [00:37]
asciilifeform: nah you fill it up with... piss, y'see. 'tis why serious server has that little flap on top. pop, unzip, fill. [00:38]
asciilifeform: gotta wonder -- any of these folx ever generate gpg key..? [00:39]
mircea_popescu: sure, as part of their education at tu berlin. [00:41]
asciilifeform: aaaa yes [00:43]
* asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner [00:48]
asciilifeform: yes, on dec. 1st. [00:48]
mircea_popescu: mine's been running all day. [00:48]
asciilifeform: well yes but. [00:48]
mircea_popescu: :p [00:49]
mircea_popescu: theoretically it's 15 celsisus in wash dc ? [00:49]
asciilifeform: aha [00:51]
mircea_popescu: wet huh. here too. exactly same temp, but 100% humidity. [00:51]
mircea_popescu: aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O [00:55]
davout: mircea_popescu asciilifeform congratulations [00:55]
mod6: damnit. [00:56]
mircea_popescu: holy shit that was ... one hour at like 1am [00:56]
mircea_popescu: anyway. will be building tons so. put your order in we'll get to it. [00:56]
mod6: ok. bummed cause i just got the mailing shit all setup [00:56]
mircea_popescu: sorry mod6 / [00:57]
mircea_popescu: but i promise you you will not be left without k! [00:57]
mod6: but will place order tomorrow then proll.y [00:57]
mod6: kthx [00:57]
mircea_popescu: ty davout ! [00:57]
BingoBoingo: December is already awesome [01:25]
mircea_popescu: truth. [01:28]
BingoBoingo: And thing's only 6 hours old [01:29]
mircea_popescu: uh. did the blockchain just fork ?! [01:31]
mircea_popescu: !~bcstats [01:31]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441388 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 115 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [01:31]
BingoBoingo: Maybe? [01:32]
mircea_popescu: 441386 (Merkle Root c8f8c5889e5d8d61c40f23cbb9b9e60a809c1d516a69834379aa68f7467d8857 Hash 000000000000000002e85349ac1deb78507a9d9a514ba2cd439c1a537c248c56 ) doesn't seem to verify. [01:33]
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep and panic [01:34]
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this new wonder. [01:34]
mircea_popescu: << ben_vulpes 's thing eats it up fine. [01:34]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess BingoBoingo has it. ima see what the girls are up to. [01:35]
BingoBoingo: !~step3 [01:35]
jhvh1: 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [01:35]
BingoBoingo: Also, tits [01:36]
danielpbarron: !~bible proverbs 3:5 [01:38]
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 3:5 :: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. [01:38]
mircea_popescu: holy shit they broke bitcoin [01:40]
mircea_popescu: << nonstandard subsidy txn [01:41]
mircea_popescu: bullshit btcc pool "oh we'll be creative and send 2.5 cents to a buncha addresses" psssh. [01:45]
mircea_popescu: anyway. legacy prb clients need >10 minutes to disentangle that sorta shit fwiw. [01:50]
deedbot: [02:50]
thestringpuller: court ruled against Coinbase favor. IRS to get 2 years of Bitcoin user records and identities [05:19]
mircea_popescu: well at least coinbase did everything to protect its users /s [07:18]
deedbot: << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2016 Statement [07:43]
mircea_popescu: jurov added. [07:47]
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 V is not including the the privkey vpatch during sync, has it not been added to site yet? (Building the new thing you posted last night) [07:56]
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded. [07:56]
mircea_popescu: !~bcstats [07:57]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441432 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 71 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 35 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [07:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun see any unusual wedge [07:59]
asciilifeform: ( though zoolag is blackholed, it is not unusual, sits like this half the time ) [07:59]
asciilifeform: dulap is at 441430 with 18 users [08:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the conclusion is, 2k+ txn blocks took significant time on old clients and this made them exceed the 10min magic delay and trip an alert. [08:00]
asciilifeform: aaaah lul alert [08:00]
mircea_popescu: last block is 441432 ftr. [08:00]
mircea_popescu: you're two behind. [08:00]
asciilifeform: trb is very often 2-7 behind [08:00]
mircea_popescu: not ben_vulpes' ! [08:01]
* mircea_popescu is becoming very impressed with mimi's brunhr! [08:01]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2203...4973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( BE) [08:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...3779 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US FL) [08:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the final solution, incidentally, is parallel-verify. but we dun have it yet [08:06]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [08:06]
asciilifeform: largely because of the 'don't clean the air filter' tale mircea_popescu told asciilifeform et al on the shore in buenos aires [08:07]
asciilifeform: but also because of the global-locks-everywhere horror in the thing, it is nontrivial to parallelize anything therein. [08:08]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [08:08]
mircea_popescu: still a good candidate for the next city's hill. [08:08]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform [08:11]
mircea_popescu: "Whenever I got a team ready to be really useful, there would be a bizarre negative reaction from all sorts of other people who were employed within the same organizations, but were not part of the teams I was working with. Sometimes this effect was so strong it could become a workplace hazard, and it always grew until the teams themselves were no longer able to function." <<< mediocrity is not a lack of intelligence, it is i [08:12]
mircea_popescu: ntelligence entirely dedicated to the task of survival. [08:12]
jurov: S.QNTR distributed. [08:15]
asciilifeform: what is the source for the quote mircea_popescu ? [08:28]
mircea_popescu: [08:30]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:01 adlai: << first log appearance for this, led me to which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally." [08:30]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu [08:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform [08:34]
mircea_popescu: my mind's eye foresees a time when all comms will consist of this. gossipd over irc! [08:35]
asciilifeform: << lel, 'what shall i do today... oh, i know, build a box with DIDDLED DEBIAN and then leave it running on DEFAULT knobs!111 for years' [08:43]
mircea_popescu: lol. i guess if anyone needed hosting... [08:49]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1630...1167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( TH) [09:05]
asciilifeform: King Mongkut's Institute of Technology << lel [09:22]
asciilifeform: << from last night's heathen pit excursions [09:42]
jurov: deedbot: [10:18]
jurov: !!deed [10:19]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [10:20]
mod6: shinohai: yeah, for now, it's just in the email. you can just grab the attachments and place them where they belong. i'll place them both in the mirror at some point, not too long [10:21]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> << nonstandard subsidy txn << motherfuckers. [10:21]
mod6: thanks jurov [10:25]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1405...0513 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US FL) [10:26]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1454...1553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( TH) [10:26]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( BE) [10:26]
trinque: << >> << :D :D :D :D [10:28]
a111: Logged on 2016-10-05 17:22 trinque: << I would buy an in-WoT RNG yesterday. [10:28]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 04:11 mircea_popescu: and in other news : << can now order FUCKGOATS [10:28]
trinque: WOOOOOOO! [10:28]
* trinque will be placing an order soon [10:29]
asciilifeform: <<< >>> >> ' Eusip bvba - | Serveman 1.3' >> >> wat [10:32]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:26 deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( BE) [10:32]
asciilifeform: 'Eusip Bvba is the independent and autonomous company behind the projects RACK66 and former projects as Thunderbox and FragFun. The company was founded in 2003 by Internetpioneers who know the market very well and felt the need for a new kind of concept for services as: hosting, housing, managed services, pre installed servers and online gaming....' [10:33]
asciilifeform: Internetpioneers!111111111111 [10:33]
shinohai: No worries mod6 ..... the new patch did fine, nice work getting that out so quickly [10:35]
asciilifeform: << related. [10:35]
asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel [10:51]
asciilifeform: (this is a ЕГГОГ and does 0 but shows up in a lulzlog) [10:51]
shinohai: Maybe they need an rng to generate a key first. >.> [10:53]
asciilifeform: lel but you don't need a key of your own [10:53]
asciilifeform: to use the snsa ordertron [10:53]
asciilifeform: (idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms) [10:54]
shinohai: I have a whole btctalk thread regarding peoples lack of following simple instructions. [10:55]
trinque: see: planet earth [10:55]
asciilifeform: likely there is also certain amount of 'here's a button, what happens if i press' [10:55]
trinque: asciilifeform: congrats on shipping your first product ! [10:56]
trinque: as No Such Labs anyway. [10:56]
asciilifeform: trinque: ty. but this is a pre-order, the actual widgets have not left factory yet. [10:56]
trinque: a ok [10:57]
asciilifeform: (they are , i am told, being packaged for shipment as we speak ) [10:57]
mod6: shinohai: the rawtx one or the privkey_tools ? [10:58]
shinohai: mod6: rawtx patch [10:58]
mod6: cool. we'll have to discuss some testing scenarios later today or whatever. [10:59]
shinohai: Yes I haven't done much with it yet besides verify the bitcoind snarfs blocks and that the flag produces a message [11:00]
mod6: thanks! [11:11]
mod6: :] [11:12]
phf: << buildroot exclusively generates linux binaries, so any bsd build has to be done manually. but fwiw my openbsd patch still works and still produces a working trb [11:49]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:52 mod6: shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure. would have to be dug into. [11:49]
trinque: phf: where's that patch at btw? [11:50]
asciilifeform: buildroot, at least as seen in 'rotor', is not necessary on bsd!! there is no glibc there !! afaik static linking works normally on known bsd [11:50]
asciilifeform: buildroot as i used it here, was a pill against drepperism [11:51]
asciilifeform: so as to build static, musltronic binary. [11:51]
phf: asciilifeform: oh so it doesn't crosscompile? i though buildroot explicitly builds all own gcc and family etc [11:51]
asciilifeform: on linux. where otherwise it dun go. [11:51]
phf: trinque: i'm wondering myself :D i thought it's on btcbase, but apparently not [11:51]
asciilifeform: phf: in principle it ought to work on bsd etc. but will shit out a linux binary, unless you were to fiddle with it rather heavily. but i do not see why to do this. [11:51]
asciilifeform: is musl necessary on *bsd ?? i have nfi, but did think that bsd's libc were mostly sane [11:52]
asciilifeform: (and certainly static-able) [11:52]
phf: oh i misunderstood your original sentence, yeah, we are on the same page [11:52]
phf: i think bsd patch might predate v [11:53]
asciilifeform: phf's definitely does [11:53]
asciilifeform: iirc he also had a mac patch [11:53]
mod6: yeah, it predates v im sure. i'll dig up the email... [11:54]
asciilifeform: tbh i do not have a clear picture of what use a trb-on-mac might be to anyone, given as the thing needs to be up 24/7 for any practical battlefield value [11:56]
phf: [11:56]
mod6: I think it was this: [11:56]
asciilifeform: perhaps - just for testing, some folx might be stuck on crapple for whatever reason. [11:56]
mod6: phf beat me. lol. [11:56]
shinohai: lol [11:56]
asciilifeform: 'of note, previously static compilation on OpenBSD resulted in segmentation fault. this is due to libpthread not being fully linked into the final static binary...' << what did this dig lead to , phf ? [11:57]
asciilifeform: is openbsd in fact 'drepperized' after all ? [11:58]
phf: asciilifeform: no, it's a gcc bug that's present on all systems [11:58]
phf: i think it only manifests on openbsd [11:58]
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder what else, and where else, is 'not fully statically linkable' and where. [11:58]
phf: asciilifeform: (the last comment) [12:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform internet prion-eers from 2003. [12:00]
mircea_popescu: i'm a fucking pioneer, been doing it since the last millenium! [12:00]
asciilifeform: phf: lemme get this straight, ~all~ pthread proggies hosed on openbsd?! [12:01]
asciilifeform: (at least such as are built on gcc ..?) [12:01]
* asciilifeform blows dust off openbsd 'libretto' [12:02]
asciilifeform: and btw holy FUCK is that thing slow. SLOW. in the sense. i can literally feel every disk write. [12:02]
phf: asciilifeform: ~on all systems~ ~static linking~ of pthread is ~not guaranteed~ to work [12:04]
asciilifeform: i dun think i have ever visited the mighty land of Guaranteed To Work [12:04]
asciilifeform: it lies far away, across seven seas, or so i heard. [12:04]
phf: "On some Linux distributions libpthread.a [12:04]
phf: has all the objects linked together with ld -r and therefore this will just work there, on others you need -Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" (from comment) [12:04]
phf: researching the problem i came across a lot of "my static linked openbsd program just crashes! ... ... -lpthread ... ...", but also a handful of linux ones [12:08]
asciilifeform: and speaking of shitware, ( moar detail -- ) -- memory corruption 'oops' in linux kernel ipv6 stack. [12:08]
asciilifeform: Just Say No to ipv6. [12:08]
asciilifeform: phf: crash how, at warmup, or randomly as it goes ? [12:09]
mircea_popescu: << with any luck it'll come in before 2nd batch is spoken for lol [12:09]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:29 trinque will be placing an order soon [12:09]
mircea_popescu: i had no idea what hotcakes means prior to FUCKGOATS [12:10]
mircea_popescu: << it should just work! [12:10]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:51 asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel [12:10]
mircea_popescu: << very much this. [12:12]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:54 asciilifeform: (idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms) [12:12]
shinohai: Sad, I really did like the blockcypher api: [12:12]
phf: asciilifeform: that's a good question, i haven't isolated the bug, but i'm pretty sure on openbsd crashes instantaneously. note that c++ threads are involved, so perhaps they try to initialize things even before you start using them? [12:12]
phf: ooh fuckgoats [12:13]
mircea_popescu: lol [12:14]
mircea_popescu: it's FUCKGOATS!!1 [12:14]
phf: asciilifeform: is usb convertable to rs-232 with a ~limited~ application of soldering iron? [12:14]
asciilifeform: lower-case fuckgoats are simply goats, such that are supplied to bagram airbase for the troops to fuck. [12:14]
asciilifeform: phf: nein, read the doc, the head comes off [12:14]
asciilifeform: (subj device speaks ordinary rs232 at TTL voltage, gets converted to the desired end by standard dongle) [12:15]
asciilifeform: at no point is usb converted to anything. [12:15]
mircea_popescu: are pthreads even a good thing ? [12:16]
asciilifeform: they're part of the 'grandfather's pistol'. [12:18]
asciilifeform: (and ~every other old pistol we have) [12:18]
asciilifeform: phf: : two example usb heads (battery for scale strictly) [12:20]
phf: sos tinys [12:20]
asciilifeform: (the rs232 db-9 serial heads are not here yet, crate should be in shortly ) [12:20]
asciilifeform: the pictured converters are quite common and the folks who played with 'pogo' already have some. [12:21]
asciilifeform: original design of FUCKGOATS featured on-board usb. was removed quite deliberately. [12:21]
ben_vulpes: << yup [12:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 14:36 mircea_popescu: speaking of above article, can i get a commitment to never signing any V material which includes any non-ascii characters ? BingoBoingo diana_coman hanbot trinque mod6 danielpbarron mircea_popescu mike_c asciilifeform davout ben_vulpes phf jurov [12:21]
asciilifeform: perhaps this is a good time and place to say why. in short -- specificity-of-diddling theorem. [12:22]
phf: it's a right and proper design [12:22]
asciilifeform: the only usb-speaking ICs on the market with no PERSISTENT FLASH STATE are all usb-to-rs232ttl converters anyway [12:22]
phf: (i finished the docs) [12:22]
asciilifeform: so why bother to pay to have it soldered to the board. [12:22]
asciilifeform: it lives separately. [12:22]
asciilifeform: and comes from wherever you like, incl. the back of your desk drawer [12:23]
asciilifeform: (they've been around since late 1990s when usb became common, in one form or another) [12:23]
asciilifeform: again, in case this was not clear, the two boards pictured are consumer products, sold for 1-3 $ / ea. just about anywhere. [12:24]
asciilifeform: elsewhere, [12:27]
asciilifeform: 'Amongst some people, such confusion has been elevated to a philosophical ideology. I once watched a very lost group working near to me, who had spent months trying to print out a graph. It was all very complicated for them. Eventually they decided to purchase a third party graph drawing component, which advertised that it could print out graphs. After considerable administration they obtained a binary library, which they were not th [12:27]
asciilifeform: en able to link. One day it became apparent that the component extended a base class of the Qt graphics toolkit, while their program used MFC. Foolishly, I ventured to suggest that if the base class wasn’t available, a derived class couldn’t be linked to it. One of the workers informed me that this was “my opinion”. I should have left it alone, I know. But I used to work in a useful industry. I explained that it was a simple [12:27]
asciilifeform: fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...' [12:27]
asciilifeform: ^ from phf / adlai / mircea_popescu 's link earlier [12:27]
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder, how come i never met these folx. [12:27]
asciilifeform: the 'missing library cannot be linked -- is merely OPINION' people. [12:27]
asciilifeform: do they live anywhere outside of caricature ? normally dysfunction is more subtle. [12:28]
asciilifeform: 1st line of subj article , 'For decades we have known that some people are 25 times more productive than most in software engineering jobs. ...' is correct, but the remaining article gets the cause/effect relationship backwards [12:30]
jurov: i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf [12:30]
asciilifeform: folx who WANT to do the thing they are doing -- or at least have genuine desire to hold in their hands the end result, $widget, $proggy , and not merely the week's paycheque -- give the impression of the '25x productive' [12:31]
asciilifeform: and where they are found, they are kept in comfortable conditions, or even spared the idiocy of commuting to offices etc. [12:32]
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in butugychags, folx doing things no sane person would voluntarily consider doing, are, yes, warehoused, as author describes [12:32]
asciilifeform: but giving ~them~ soundproof boxes etc. simply results on moar tetris-man-hours. [12:32]
asciilifeform: i thought this was known to pretty much everyone in the field since... '70s..? but apparently not [12:33]
asciilifeform: see also mircea_popescu's thread about the filipino bordello, with the 400 beds. [12:33]
jurov: sorry, pls what was that "25 times more productive" link? somwhow can't find it in the log [12:35]
jurov: ahh [12:36]
asciilifeform: yes [12:36]
asciilifeform: pretty typical 'mistreated programmers' piece [12:36]
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING [12:41]
asciilifeform: as if it were not at all relevant... [12:42]
asciilifeform: ( and what precisely could be a motivation, in moribund american megacorp where 'proverbial' programmer always seems to work, to 'super' ? 1% bonus ? to be fired three months later than the next-best team ? better potato ration ? which..? ) [12:43]
phf: when i said "programmers stone" i meant papers published by blog's author in 97 or so, which are very vague and speculative but had some interesting ideas about programming. most references to subj in oldfag circles result in "oh yeaaah i member" reaction. the blog has not much to do with original [12:45]
phf: are the original, and c2 discussion [12:46]
asciilifeform: phf: happen to have a preserved copy of any of these ? [12:46]
ben_vulpes: congrats on FUCKGOATS, asciilifeform! [12:46]
asciilifeform: ty ben_vulpes [12:46]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes already owns 1/3 (by mass...) of a complete unit !1111 [12:47]
ben_vulpes: tru tru [12:50]
asciilifeform: phf: lol, it was same d00d as the infamous 'mappers and packers' thing?!! [12:50]
ben_vulpes: and a pike of entropy sitting in the corner [12:50]
ben_vulpes: pile* [12:50]
phf: asciilifeform: it ~is~ the infamous mappers and packers thing, m&p is first chapter [12:51]
asciilifeform: aaaah [12:51]
asciilifeform: related [12:51]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 01:24 mircea_popescu: I blame Eric Raymond and to a lesser extent Dave Winer for bringing this kind of schlock writing onto the Internet. Raymond is the original perpetrator of the "what is a hacker?" essay, in which you quickly begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about wh [12:51]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform refers to this genre of writing as '10th-dimension', after infamous pseudoscientific b00k/www by same name, which consisted of highly refined 'imponade' (to borrow naggum's) , that is, writing designed to pull the reader's intellectual cock and give a sensation of 'profound insight', 'yes, NAO i UNDERSTAND FIZZZIX!' or similar. [12:54]
asciilifeform: 'it ALL falls into place!1' [12:55]
phf: well, yeah, it's cybermysticism :) follows a long tradition that well predates eric raymond [12:55]
asciilifeform: important ingredient is the lack of mathematical or any other pre-requisite that a reader might lack and thereby stumble, or provoke feeling of inferiority [12:56]
asciilifeform: reader must feel 'on the throne' merely by act of reading. [12:56]
phf: i would've prefered criticism that involved quotes (since there are plenty of things to make fun of), rather than a somehwat off mark general trash talking [12:58]
asciilifeform: quote of 'programmer stone' ? we had a number of these earlier in thread ? [12:59]
asciilifeform: or some other work [12:59]
phf: those quotes are from blog, not the original site [12:59]
phf: earlier in thread that is [13:00]
asciilifeform: so where can i see original site [13:00]
phf: i just linked it to you ffs [13:00]
asciilifeform: that was c2 page on subj, no ? [13:00]
asciilifeform: there was not an earlier document ? [13:00]
phf: [13:00]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:46 phf: are the original, and c2 discussion [13:00]
asciilifeform: aah [13:00]
phf: but anyway, the reason why i mentioned it, and the one thing of value that i derived from progstone is the idea of stess addiction. i'm not sure about the mechanism that he proposes, but identifying and neutralizing sources of needless stress served me well for many years since i read it [13:04]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had a pretty good handle on subj, though i have misplaced the relevant piece. the one where he described two basic outcomes of the traditional western crippling of schoolchildren, and they roughly correspond to the 'mapper' and 'packer' portrayed here, and in 'bipolar lisp programmer', and other similar essays. [13:04]
asciilifeform: phf: stands to reason that if adrenergic dopes are addictive, likewise so would be ordinary adrenaline [13:05]
phf: also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code [13:06]
asciilifeform: the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee the shared deathmarches the dope the sensory deprivation bottles the 'scene' and other pretenses. [13:07]
asciilifeform: the code - was incidental. which is why it today is going the way of the snake's legs, or the f35's wings and engine. [13:07]
asciilifeform: hence 'gender git commits' [13:08]
asciilifeform: briefly revisiting upstack, imho 'mapper' and 'packer' as depicted in the essays are only 'types of people' in the sense that there were two types of inmate at auschwitz - folx who immediately jumped the fence and died on the wire, and ones who 'checked out' and turned 'Muselmann' [13:12]
asciilifeform: two different reactions to being killed with boredom -- daydream and gabriel_laddel around ('mapper') -- or, alternatively, -- 'mindless robot' ('packer'), typical caricature of 'cube dweller', 'dilbert'. [13:13]
asciilifeform: only the latter, notably, results in the inmate/employee being of some residual use to his owner, so 'corporate culture' is unsurprisingly built around utilization of this type, and the speedy ejection of the other one. [13:15]
asciilifeform: because how else. [13:15]
phf: i always thought that kind of classification is "people like me and people not like me", but i like your take too. [13:15]
asciilifeform: i cannot speak for other inmates, but i have lived as both of these animals. [13:15]
asciilifeform: and because of this, have difficulty picturing them as fixed 'types' from birth. [13:16]
phf: well also [13:17]
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must disagree, i was quite close to, e.g., 'v', for very long time before finally wrote it. [13:17]
asciilifeform: how's that plug in ? [13:17]
phf: the first part of writing happens in a mapper mode, i.e. daydreaming for lack of better word before any kind of code is actually written, second in packer i.e. actual typing. that's also when cocaine/caffeine/aderal might help [13:18]
asciilifeform: 'packing', and brute labour of whatever other kind, also can have sensation of 'inch away', read the tales of athletes in training, alpinists, pilots. [13:19]
asciilifeform: and aha, 'inca marching powders' etc. [13:19]
asciilifeform: but quite destructive to folx who are doing equivalent of ~planning~ the march [13:19]
asciilifeform: which is why i said to laddel 'dope requires discipline', because a lone programmer in a cellar is both general and soldier [13:20]
phf: plan with vodka, execute with cocaine -- stalin [13:20]
asciilifeform: ^ [13:20]
asciilifeform: or, i will add for completeness, both -- sober. also worx for some folx. [13:20]
asciilifeform: but quite certainly not 'vodka -- vodka' or 'cocaine -- cocaine' [13:21]
asciilifeform: these -- proven failure. [13:21]
asciilifeform: 'cocaine -- vodka' gives you usg. [13:21]
asciilifeform: also undesirable combination. [13:21]
shinohai: !~tslb [13:22]
jhvh1: shinohai: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data. [13:22]
phf: haha, most definitely. cocaine is all the upper echelons (the drug of choice on capitol hill), alcohol is for the grunts. aspiring managers notably prefer vodka redbulls are a nodick compromise [13:23]
phf: *as a [13:23]
trinque: who is this person that felt like they could figure things out on cocaine? then later saw that they in fact, had. [13:23]
* trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp. [13:24]
asciilifeform: trinque: probably the folx who erdos for decade on single 100g bottle of it and will take secret to the grave. [13:24]
asciilifeform: and take it every other month. [13:24]
* trinque is not particularly addiction prone [13:24]
trinque: smokes for bit, stops cold one day. same experience with the powdery one. [13:25]
trinque: still didn't feel superhuman on either more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop [13:25]
phf: i'd like to mention that sherlock holmes used cocaine ~only~ in between cases [13:25]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes danke. [13:27]
ben_vulpes: << yeah mine is rarely even 1 behind, frequently ahead of and frenz [13:29]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 13:01 mircea_popescu: not ben_vulpes' ! [13:29]
asciilifeform: phf: i distinctly recall ~one~ case where he injects while thinking [13:29]
mircea_popescu: << mandatory link to " It was impressive in a way to see Protagoras's sophism alive and well after 2500 years." [13:30]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:27 asciilifeform: fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...' [13:30]
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel [13:31]
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: << alf also isn't exactly a social butterfly. [13:32]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:30 jurov: i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf [13:32]
ben_vulpes: one of the few psyochoactive experiments left on my list is the eyedropper bottle of cocaine/alcohol solution [13:32]
shinohai: <<< Holmes later went to Dr. Sigmund Freud's rehab clinic in Vienna [13:32]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you ever examined the nasal septum of long term coke whore ? [13:32]
* asciilifeform not even very serious antisocial butterfly ! [13:32]
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: why this vs. in soda? [13:32]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: indeed have, why do you ask? [13:33]
jurov: ben_vulpes: already tried eyedropping tobacco extract? not very psychoactive but very purifying instead [13:33]
asciilifeform: for the cocaethylene ? [13:33]
mircea_popescu: because i can't conceive why'd you want to do that to your cornea. [13:33]
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: there's a metabolite that comes out when digestion booze and coke together [13:33]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, traditional oral application [13:33]
mircea_popescu: oh, eyedropper on tongue ? [13:34]
ben_vulpes: good idea though! i've dropped many a dose of 'acid' into 'friends' eyeballs. [13:34]
* mircea_popescu sees eyedropper, expects eye. [13:34]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: or even more dilute, through a whole cocktail [13:34]
mircea_popescu: (this is how hitler got his, famously) [13:34]
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: coca-cola, not booze... [13:34]
ben_vulpes: OCD TITRATION [13:34]
gabriel_laddel_p: but it seems we are on the same page. [13:34]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to morrel, the fuhrer took his 'vitamins' injected every morning and at lunch [13:35]
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: it is the poor modern americans resynthesis of the original coke + booze cocktails [13:35]
asciilifeform: iirc. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall an eyedropped thing, but w/e ianae [13:35]
gabriel_laddel_p: I cannot currently up myself, but have registered a new key for gabriel_laddel_p [13:35]
trinque: and he was just about to win the war, even! [13:35]
asciilifeform: !!key gabriel_laddel_p [13:35]
deedbot: [13:35]
trinque: neato [13:36]
ben_vulpes: lol what is that a lisp predicate joke gabriel_laddel_p ? [13:36]
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p so is this actually going to be your key or are you gonna lose it in six weeks ? [13:36]
asciilifeform: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 possibly == gabriel_laddel [13:36]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [13:36]
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: I'm going to recover my old key, sign this one. [13:36]
mircea_popescu: alright. [13:36]
asciilifeform: !!v B87AE47F1D988F4D67F9D1552817CBF74A7458EC771E28481318FC165A4D85F0 [13:37]
deedbot: asciilifeform rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << possibly == gabriel_laddel [13:37]
shinohai: Lamport parachute or it didn't happen. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall. [13:37]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [13:37]
asciilifeform: shinohai: d00d ejected, it seems, without a parachute. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: !!v CADE8827752416FE04C18CBB70886AE4B6573C376EE93B81A4FA771DCFE2ABE9 [13:38]
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall. [13:38]
trinque: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved [13:38]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [13:38]
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: next you get a postbox [13:38]
trinque: !!v 96533527176896B9F4A475C5B768571233BAC59F4CF81F8F856087FD87EA6855 [13:39]
deedbot: trinque rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved [13:39]
mircea_popescu: first we take manhattan... [13:39]
mircea_popescu: THEN WE TAKE BERLIN! [13:39]
* asciilifeform was going to say !111 ^ [13:39]
asciilifeform: BERLIN, FRITZES!11 [13:39]
asciilifeform: ( speaking of this, almost let this slip by! << poor decimation ! ) [13:40]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:42 shinohai: This may be the best story I have seen all day: Former gay porn actor turned German spy arrested for secretly being a Jihadist [13:40]
asciilifeform: ^ for some reason i picture the protagonist of subj as him ! [13:40]
mircea_popescu: << this is because you are invited to bond. girls bitching to other girls about their bfs ALSO don't actually say what they're doing. [13:41]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:41 asciilifeform: i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING [13:41]
asciilifeform: they assume that 'everyone does same thing' [13:41]
asciilifeform: so it gets #include'd [13:41]
mircea_popescu: not even. they assume that everyone's an imbecile, and therefore will discuss what's said. so if they tell you about the money they spent you'll discuss money spent and if they tell you about his abs you'll discuss abs. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: because nobody has any shade of completeness left anywhere. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: and consequently : he simply does not want it to be a discussion about that, so he doesn't mention it. [13:43]
asciilifeform: perhaps it was a mistake to teach pigs to speak. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: he doesn't even realise that this is moo-ing for moo-ers, not discourse for people. [13:43]
asciilifeform: cows - also. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice [13:44]
mircea_popescu: much like the meaning of "established" itself. [13:44]
asciilifeform: no more than legs are ballet engine [13:45]
mircea_popescu: no, legs actually are ballet engine. [13:45]
mircea_popescu: brain is not reasoning engine in the sense rectum is not vagina. [13:45]
asciilifeform: it is why asciilifeform is sympathetic to the 'gabriel_laddel's dope' pov : the degree of contortion involved in serious engineering , mentally, is every bit as much a self-abuse as to take any known dope [13:46]
asciilifeform: brain - does not go along willingly. [13:46]
mircea_popescu: the recent trilema byline about mediocrity conversely states "there is no perversity other than thinking" [13:46]
trinque: asciilifeform: what is this external thing that the brain wont go along with willingly? [13:47]
asciilifeform: actually mediocrity ~does~ consist of the places to which brain goes willingly. [13:47]
mircea_popescu: quite. [13:47]
mircea_popescu: trinque the structure of representation qua representation does not particularly match the structure of reality qua reality. [13:47]
asciilifeform: trinque: think back to own education, childhood [13:47]
trinque: I was the kid who voraciously wanted to learn, ended up tiring of starving, went wandering in the woods for food. [13:48]
trinque: it is a strange creature that resists learning, or work. [13:49]
mircea_popescu: consider the illustrative case of physics. newtonian mechanics (representation structured as representation) is valuable because a) it works in representative terms, ie, math and b) matches observable reality. but there is no objective relation between a and b, which is why science fiction can exist for instance and also why the only thing that can be said about nm is that it's ... not correct. [13:50]
mircea_popescu: same holds for nm v2.0 aka qm. [13:50]
mircea_popescu: none of this is much more than observing that you know, "in theory there's no difference between theory and practice..." ie, the represented difference between representation and reality reduces to a representation. [13:50]
trinque: I am trying to digest the perspective that one must beat himself to behave according to his own model of reality, subjectively. [13:51]
trinque: how can that be so when it implies an infinite regression of models of his world [13:52]
gabriel_laddel_p: I should have been a little more specific earlier re: why cocaine in particular, or meth (in particular) would be useful IN MY SITUATION. I think it would be useful when you find yourself on a forced march in the sense that you MUST stay awake for a few hours longer than you normally would have, perhaps on the company of people who you should proba [13:52]
gabriel_laddel_p: bly socialize with prior to getting a new place to crash / drop masamunes off. [13:52]
mod6: asciilifeform: did you guys take down the order form for fuckgoats? [13:52]
mod6: I aquired a box, so was just gonna re-read some of the stuff and place an order later tonight. [13:52]
gabriel_laddel_p: both substances allow you to remain lucid after a long time with little sleep [13:53]
asciilifeform: mod6: no, did you have trouble loading ? [13:53]
mod6: i didn't see a link. i'm probably an idiot. [13:53]
* gabriel_laddel_p off to sell machines, later. [13:53]
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: k, now describe the iterated case. [13:54]
asciilifeform: mats: page is all there, box -- not in any sense hammered should load normally [13:54]
asciilifeform: mod6 ^ rather [13:55]
phf: trinque: all voracious learners i know eventually hit the point, where acquiring knowledge/skill requires significant amount of self abuse. the kind of abuse in question is the actual, physical pain that you experience in your head, when for example trying to grok math analysis. only people who never experienced that are jacks of all trades who bail before that point (or mythical genuises who never hit their limits before death, i know [13:55]
phf: none) [13:55]
asciilifeform: and ^^^ [13:55]
asciilifeform: phf has it. [13:55]
trinque: thinking hard is not abuse [13:55]
mod6: ooooh. i see what the problem was. the homepage doesn't have a link to 'shop'. after clicking on 'the real bitcoin' link, then was taken to that page, where a 'shop' link exists. [13:55]
mod6: thanks [13:55]
asciilifeform: mod6: your browser cache may be stale [13:56]
asciilifeform: all of the pages should have same link [13:56]
mod6: oh, aight. will clear. [13:56]
mod6: doesn't seem to resolve the issue. but w/e. less people in line in front of me! [13:57]
asciilifeform: mod6: link ? [13:57]
trinque: this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument. [13:57]
trinque: when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity. [13:57]
mod6: and btw, i get a 401 auth required when trying to hit: [13:57]
asciilifeform: lol i have nfi [13:58]
asciilifeform: btw who is , your browser is in an infinite loop [13:58]
mod6: but, i don't have a link handy for ya or anything, it's just '' in a private-window with all history cleared, no 'shop' link in menu bar. [13:58]
trinque: I would say one of the functions of a republic is to do precisely this, i.e. [13:59]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 19:52 trinque: << /me perceives more of "republic describes the structure of meaning" here [13:59]
trinque: when you encounter the truth, it better flip bits in your skull, or you are broken. this includes "I must build/learn/etc X" [13:59]
asciilifeform: mod6: try now. [14:01]
asciilifeform: (www.... and bare link) [14:01]
asciilifeform: ^ anyone else saw what mod6 saw ?? [14:02]
asciilifeform: and how about now ? [14:03]
mircea_popescu: trinque it has to be so so as to prevent the reality-representation tandem from going into positive feedback. [14:03]
mircea_popescu: << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man! [14:08]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument. [14:08]
mod6: so now, i see that '' homepage is the 'fuckgoats' page -- no middle finger [14:08]
mircea_popescu: aha. [14:08]
mod6: and the shop link is on there. [14:09]
mircea_popescu: << yes, but this is not really what's discussed here. obviously when you grok something you grok something. but in order to get yourserlf to where you grok something, you invariably have to do something "out of character". there has to be some pressure. "and at that moment x was enlightened" specifically says "x abused himself to the point of", but nobody wants to notice. [14:10]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity. [14:10]
mircea_popescu: that ~nobody wants to notice~ is the very point. yes, once the spot on the sleeve is pointed out it stands out. and before it wasn't there. [14:10]
deedbot: << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Out with Trudeau. In with O’Leary. [14:11]
mircea_popescu: (which is why the whole "nobody could have predicted" is such an endearingly stupid exercise in ignorance pleading, but whatevers) [14:11]
mircea_popescu: << "i fucking love science!" there's a lot of these. [14:14]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:55 asciilifeform: 'it ALL falls into place!1' [14:14]
mircea_popescu: for a while a very popular ~tv format~ was this string of factoids going in a sort of free association from a noun back again to it. the whole thing read too fast and with "bbc noises" in the background (you know the idiocy, chimes intended to propose THE IMPORTANT IS OCCURING!) [14:15]
trinque: mircea_popescu: aha, and the dope runs heavy risk of false-positive "did something useful out of character" [14:16]
mircea_popescu: "mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!" [14:16]
trinque: but whatever, we can have two sanitarium-goers [14:16]
trinque: :D [14:16]
mircea_popescu: trinque try as i might i fail to see self-administered medication in any better light than self-mixed gasoline. "oh, my fuel mix gives me much better power and gas mileage". meanwhile derp drives a fucking honda and has an evil eye pendant dangling from the rear view mirror. [14:17]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure he MEASURED this shit. [14:17]
asciilifeform: << aaaa, but didja throw any cars. [14:17]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:08 mircea_popescu: << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man! [14:17]
mircea_popescu: if only the exxon people had thought to mix mountain berries and chalk powder into the damned thing. but the anti-berry lobby is keeping a lid on things. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. who throws cars ? [14:18]
asciilifeform: pcp eaters. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: much likelier they give themselves tendon fractures. [14:18]
asciilifeform: well yes, each gets to throw 1 car. [14:18]
asciilifeform: then -- done. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: wtf, a crane is like 100 bux an hour already. why throw cars. [14:18]
asciilifeform: most of the things 'plankton' do on done, there is equally little actual reason to do any of. [14:19]
asciilifeform: *on dope [14:19]
phf: this goes back to the whole computer as an intelligence augmentation thread we had [14:20]
asciilifeform: aha. [14:20]
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, i find it deeply regrettable that fuel teas aren't fashionable. imagine, if people actualyl did plant mix decoctions to mix in their gas tanks. [14:20]
mircea_popescu: they could have a web forum dedicated to debating formulas... [14:21]
asciilifeform: this almost exists. [14:21]
mircea_popescu: like... camomille is good for reducing wear and mint is good for you know, that extra kick uphill [14:21]
phf: mircea_popescu: it exists! with diesel from trash crowd [14:21]
mircea_popescu: hm [14:21]
mircea_popescu: no but i mean, something equivalent to the fortified wine / bitter craze of the 1700/1800s. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: the stuff that gave us strega and campari and whatnot. "secret family recipe. blessed by pope! 500 plants!" [14:22]
asciilifeform: the correct analogy here, at least in re dopes that actually DO something, is nitro. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: the occasional death in a garage fireball because idiot had leaky still... [14:22]
mircea_popescu: "no doubt it was a hit by the anti-tea-gasoline lobby because he knew too much" [14:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nitro dundo nuttin on stock engine. [14:23]
mircea_popescu: and i have yet to see people who altered their neurons prior to doping. [14:23]
asciilifeform: 'dundu nuttin' is not exactly correct. [14:23]
phf: jack parsons blowing himself up has similar thread of mystical and paranoid interpretations [14:23]
mircea_popescu: though this is a decent sf premise, imagine if nanotech allows one to drill implants into each neuron [14:23]
mircea_popescu: and then you hafta whatever, eat wd40 [14:23]
asciilifeform: incidentally it is not inconceivable that some of the natural variation in wakefulness, pain tolerance, etc. among people reduces to something that one could - to an extent - chemically scam into existence [14:25]
mircea_popescu: i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side. [14:25]
asciilifeform: (though afaik no known dope falls squarely into this category, the discovery of thyroid hormone almost falls in ) [14:25]
asciilifeform: the observation about 'nitro in a stock engine' is not untrue: idiots who take stim produce idiocy 10x faster, because they are unaccustomed to the horsepower and have nfi where to put it, their crankshaft simply bends [14:27]
mircea_popescu: and ftr in the "Self administered medication" above i don't just count "performance enhancing psychoactives" but also colodial silver, large servings of c vitamin and for that matter fucking steroids. [14:27]
* mircea_popescu runs into dude, dumb as fucking doornail, "o man, everything's better on roids. you gotta juice man. you gotta!" [14:27]
mircea_popescu: with some regularity. [14:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are 2 basic magisteria of self-medicators -- where the dope actually does something and where not [14:28]
asciilifeform: (in the case of the latter -- placebocin still works magic!!) [14:28]
mircea_popescu: everything "does something". [14:28]
mircea_popescu: eat enough blueberry extract you'll poop purple for chrissakes. [14:28]
asciilifeform: something, let's say, superficially resembling the intended effect [14:29]
* phf knows some hippies to who refer to psychedelic mushrooms as "medicine" and stick to the whole medical terminology throughout. mind you they take them at festivals, but "for medicinal purposes" [14:29]
* asciilifeform pictures a penicillin festival [14:29]
mircea_popescu: phf hey, the alcohol as medicine thing is a joke older than those hippies' mothers. [14:30]
asciilifeform: phf: this is rather like medieval nuns who saw rubbing clit as only acceptable if done indirectly as part of a 'saintly ecstatic dream' etc [14:30]
asciilifeform: in re this and all other 'medicalizations' -- straight to tlp [14:30]
phf: perhaps if some tribe accidentally learned how to synth p they would have "festivals" around it. "doesn't work otherwise" [14:31]
asciilifeform: ritualization of $working-item is how priests siphon off some of the bang of the buck [14:31]
mircea_popescu: this is not unlike saying that the teenaged village whore manipulated the village. [14:32]
asciilifeform: supply 'necessary' mumbles, ration access, cordon off creators of bad pr (those for whom 'not worked'), etc [14:32]
mircea_popescu: a) people want to do x b) people don't weant to do x c) people pick the more lunatic marginal, make him Priest of X. [14:32]
mircea_popescu: kinda dangerous for the priest, but it's what it is. [14:33]
asciilifeform: phf: re 'medicinal alcohol', most famously possibly in usa -- n. tesla revoked his prediction of living to be 100 y.o. when prohibition passed [14:34]
* mircea_popescu will to this day drink pepper-decocted-tuica for some types of colds. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: very fucking medicinal. [14:34]
asciilifeform: some variant of this exists in every drinking country, i suspect [14:35]
mircea_popescu: and it also works! but w/e, i'm not proposing this shamanism is medicine. [14:36]
* mircea_popescu has had some occasion to try such wonders, like treated girl's sprain with mustard. it worked on her just as well as generally works, notwithstanding not from the right culture. [14:38]
phf: "every trained girl must placebo on command" [14:39]
* mircea_popescu also sent girl with uti to buy herself gallon of cranberry juice the day before taking same girl to er because OMFG IT HURTS and pumping her full of nitrofuran. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: or in other words, traditional medicine is fun while the fun lasts. [14:40]
asciilifeform: either kind is 'while lasts'. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: this is also true. [14:43]
asciilifeform: ( and consider how s. jobs supposedly died ) [14:43]
mircea_popescu: didn't he have pancreatic cancer ? [14:43]
asciilifeform: no, iirc it was some very uncommonly ~operable~ liver variant [14:44]
mircea_popescu: not afaik. [14:44]
asciilifeform: but he 'traditionalled' it for , it was said, years. [14:44]
shinohai: He died of cyanide poisoning from eating all those crapple seeds [14:44]
mircea_popescu: islet cell carcinoma. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: o wow apparently he also got a liver transplant, which obv comes with imunosupressants. [14:49]
asciilifeform: the idea (or at least the popular notion, i was not at his deathbed and have nfi re fact) was that the man , with infinite money, could have likely lived if he had spent it on the 'brezhnev-grade' medical fuckery earlier. [14:51]
asciilifeform: instead of herbalists. [14:51]
mircea_popescu: yeah apparently he spent a year trolling the internet for "spiritualists" lel. [14:51]
phf: it's sort of like believing monopoly money is real money, must be a cultural thing [14:52]
mircea_popescu: success unhinges the mind. [14:53]
asciilifeform: especially 'grade 5' ( per mircea_popescu's essay ) success. [14:53]
mircea_popescu: especially. [14:53]
asciilifeform: it is pretty lethal to most folx i dare say. [14:53]
asciilifeform: the old piloting book, interestingly, goes into subj [14:54]
asciilifeform: (how folx often die -- from observer's pov, quite avoidably -- in the cockpit, author tells, is by taking idiot risk they 'got away with many times before') [14:55]
mircea_popescu: a good 2/3 of how girl gets in trouble. "but i've always done this". [14:55]
mircea_popescu: fine example for trinque 's folder on "brain - not reasoning machine". woman goes out in the field with the horde of kids (whose job as we know is to act as landmine sacrifices for the mysterious bushes). notices kid eats berries from berry bush, notices kid doesn't die, has some, and then tomorrow, and then [14:57]
mircea_popescu: << you have to appreciate that "hacker culture" as practiced by adolescents is very different from hacking and very related to adolescence. the "hunting culture" of adolescents similarly is more about the horde being together and all excited than about catching anything. [14:59]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:06 phf: also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code [14:59]
mircea_popescu: there's specific sexual behaviours involved not so much work-oriented. unless you count cunt crushing. [14:59]
mircea_popescu: << quite exactly, alf has it. very much this same story. [15:01]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:07 asciilifeform: the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee the shared deathmarches the dope the sensory deprivation bottles the 'scene' and other pretenses. [15:01]
phf: sort of reminds me how i was trying to teach a group of script kiddies to program. "this here shellcode -- that we use to pwn newwwbs!!! -- yes, yes, see it's x86 assembly -- ... -- and you disassemble it, and then even write your own -- so we can pwn newbs better????!!! -- yes yes precisely" [15:05]
mircea_popescu: does your wife go ? eh ? eh ? is she a sport ? say NO MORE! [15:06]
phf: what's it like! [15:06]
mircea_popescu: aha lol [15:06]
* asciilifeform just opened a crate, 'what was this', turns out, grey market chinese '3d display', came even with preloaded crappy pr0n [15:11]
phf: is it chinese porn? [15:11]
asciilifeform: well yes [15:12]
asciilifeform: thing runs turdroid, etc. [15:12]
mircea_popescu: what, with blurred out cunts and shit ? [15:12]
asciilifeform: approx [15:13]
asciilifeform: box claims 'like in movie theatre' -- and true! !! ~back row~ [15:13]
mircea_popescu: << you know that "so what does your master do ?" "when he eats - he eats. when he sleeps - he sleeps" one ? [15:14]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:24 trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp. [15:14]
mircea_popescu: << kinda why it goes so well with orgies. [15:15]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:25 trinque: still didn't feel superhuman on either more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop [15:15]
asciilifeform: and lel, 'bangkok motor show' in there [15:18]
asciilifeform: complete with 1930s wtfs [15:18]
phf: asciilifeform: this is some prime warez [15:18]
trinque: mircea_popescu: A student once asked his teacher, "Master, what is enlightenment?" The master replied, "When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep." << this thing? [15:19]
asciilifeform: iirc it also ended with 'when done -- die' [15:24]
asciilifeform: but maybe i dreamed this. [15:25]
trinque: should at any rate. [15:27]
shinohai: <<< quite the mempool spike today [15:30]
mircea_popescu: trinque o, no. [15:36]
mircea_popescu: A student told his friend, "My teacher has amazing powers. He moves a pen in the air and characters appear on a piece of paper held on the other side of the river. What does your master do?" His friend replied "My great master follows Zen. When he is hungry, he eats and when he is tired he sleeps." [15:37]
asciilifeform: << i suspect that 'the dose makes the poison', as often is the case, most 'erdos' success stories involve very very small ones. [15:41]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 20:15 mircea_popescu: << kinda why it goes so well with orgies. [15:41]
mircea_popescu: shinohai < that sort of shit is misleading because usual socialism. should be in term of total fees. [15:41]
mircea_popescu: wtf is "a transaction" [15:41]
asciilifeform: lulzy how we ~still~ don't have fee-sort sanity. [15:42]
mircea_popescu: until we put it in it won't exist alf. [15:42]
asciilifeform: dafuq are 0fee tx even doing existing, for instance. [15:42]
asciilifeform: or even the coin age priority thing. [15:42]
asciilifeform: it makes 0 sense. [15:42]
mircea_popescu: that's privilege. [15:42]
asciilifeform: prioritize -- by fee. [15:42]
mircea_popescu: i can't say i grasp what the dude thought he was doing exactly. [15:43]
asciilifeform: (there is nothing presently keeping miners from prioritizing how they like. but -- too stupid) [15:43]
shinohai: I agree it should be prioritized by fee ... but "democracy" and all [15:43]
* asciilifeform once sat down to put it in and then found that he cannot even delete one tx from the pool ! [15:43]
asciilifeform: if anyone recalls. [15:43]
asciilifeform: jurov -- replicated this, painfully [15:43]
mircea_popescu: so folks may recall the airconditioner pics ? in the same vein, this morning there was a truck loaded with steel pipes, and two trabajadores. one of them held a pipe up in the air vertically, with great effort, as the wind threatened to cause a serious workplace accident any moment. the other had a shovel. [15:47]
mircea_popescu: and he used that shovel. to bang on the lower end of the steep pipe, ostensibly to induce it to take a shape less offensive to his taste and good public morals. [15:48]
mircea_popescu: at which point englithment struck me : do you know that in two years here i NEVER heard an engine as quiet as the item left the factory ? [15:49]
mircea_popescu: it was long a low level puzzle this, "seriously, 2010 toyota sounds LIKE THAT ?!" [15:49]
asciilifeform: lemme guess, they take off the mufflers for the 1-3% efficiency boost ? [15:49]
mircea_popescu: but then it became crystal clear - they have these auto shops here, about 100x the floor space of bars and nightclubs altogether. and in them, men. trabajadores. [15:49]
mircea_popescu: with their fucking shovels, fucking up everything. [15:49]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform currently i suspect they unseat and reseat the engine blocks wrongly. [15:50]
mircea_popescu: ie, with different screws. with pipe collars. etcetera. INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA. [15:50]
asciilifeform: btw most engines made since mid-1990s have an electronic damper that kicks in b/w , iirc, 3rd and 4th gear, and also has to be mounted, and correctly, or ~increases~ vibration [15:50]
mircea_popescu: everything sounds like a fucking volga. [15:51]
asciilifeform: (i learned of this existing when finally found the schematics for own auto, and marvelled) [15:51]
mircea_popescu: i mean, IVECO trucks, clearly made for municipal use, clearly delivered new sometime in the past 2-3 years. as loud as a zil uphill. [15:52]
mircea_popescu: never would that item have left factory in that condition [15:52]
asciilifeform: orc maintenance. [15:53]
asciilifeform: btw asciilifeform's mechanic is originally from buenos aires, and is superb [15:54]
mircea_popescu: sort-of how the long lost compass in tribal shaman's possession is covered in braids and whatnot. [15:54]
asciilifeform: according to legend, cuba is different somehow [15:55]
asciilifeform: but i have not been there. [15:55]
* jurov went to look up trabajadores, there was this example usage: Mis trabajadores roban material de oficina de la empresa. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: i would say it is very apt. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado". [15:59]
mircea_popescu: and in other utf news, [16:06]
asciilifeform: << in other lelz [16:10]
mircea_popescu: gaming forum ? nigga... [16:11]
mircea_popescu: that's what, 2 petahash ? i'm sure some venezuelan derp is running 2ph. [16:13]
mircea_popescu: half a million or so in gear, big deal! [16:14]
mircea_popescu: and besides, who's gonna notice a missing quarter mw. [16:15]
* ben_vulpes was just fined for gang plugging [16:21]
phf: "make sure he gets plugged -- sure thing boss" later "benny v arrested in gang related plugging" [16:23]
mircea_popescu: did this involve ginger by any chance ? [16:23]
ben_vulpes: i wish [16:23]
ben_vulpes: power cords only [16:23]
mircea_popescu: isn't that nigger rigging ? [16:24]
* ben_vulpes dies laughing [16:24]
phf: [16:26]
ben_vulpes: funny thing is that i can guarantee if i'm drawing any serious amount of amperage it will be the walls that ignite and not my nigga-rigged workstation [16:26]
* trinque still wants to know what gang plugging is! [16:39]
trinque: I've got a bunch of italians sitting around getting mops stapled on in my head [16:39]
trinque: somebody has authoritah to inspect your power strips somewhere? [16:40]
ben_vulpes: yeah, that's exactly it. [16:43]
ben_vulpes: i didn't actually know that the fire marshall planned to let himself in, but GLORIOUS SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF PORTLAND [16:43]
trinque: let himself in << what the fuck? [16:44]
ben_vulpes: tell me about it! [16:46]
mircea_popescu: i'm confused. what happened ? [17:24]
ben_vulpes: fire marshall let himself into my office and fined me for power cord mismanagement [17:25]
ben_vulpes: "GANG PLUGGING POWER TAPS" [17:25]
mircea_popescu: how did he do that ? no locks where you live ? [17:25]
ben_vulpes: well this is the office and apparently they have their own set of keys [17:30]
mircea_popescu: lol aww. [17:30]
asciilifeform: what's the fine, same 20bux as for smoking in a lift ? [17:36]
asciilifeform: ( last set in... '50s..? ) [17:37]
ben_vulpes: very close, when inflation-adjusted, some 250. [17:38]
asciilifeform: << and i thought it was from latro (thief - lat) [17:39]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 20:59 mircea_popescu: ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado". [17:39]
asciilifeform: << in other olds. [17:58]
asciilifeform: 'you will need 50 men to lift this part...' [18:04]
shinohai: <<< google play users get cornholed again [18:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course it is. [18:41]
mircea_popescu: and in other eu news, [18:44]
asciilifeform: lel the thing from mircea_popescu's tale [18:45]
mircea_popescu: which one ? [18:46]
asciilifeform: the one with the... cock crusher? [18:46]
mircea_popescu: oh i see! [18:47]
mircea_popescu: THAT one [18:47]
shinohai: There was an enterprising lady on reddit iirc who charged 0.1 to keep the tards locked up in one weekly. [18:47]
mircea_popescu: a saintly spirit. [18:48]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, no such labs now larger referrer for trilema than the logs. [18:48]
asciilifeform: lolsrsly? [18:49]
mircea_popescu: aha. [18:49]
asciilifeform: neato. [18:49]
mircea_popescu: by a fat margin too. [18:50]
ben_vulpes: [18:52]
asciilifeform: old noose [18:54]
asciilifeform: iirc it was in #ba before i was [18:54]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes your reddit link 404s [18:55]
ben_vulpes: 2013 even, but amused me. [18:55]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon? [18:55]
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i clicked on some link in there and it showed me an orange pile with some sort of teddybear crushed under it [18:55]
ben_vulpes: in the page? [18:56]
mircea_popescu: yes [18:56]
mircea_popescu: i think maybe it was reddit's rendition of a cock ? crushed ? [18:56]
ben_vulpes: not precisely my link, but reddit appears down from here [18:56]
mircea_popescu: aww. [18:57]
mircea_popescu: so /me clicks an addres.. and bam [18:59]
mircea_popescu: [18:59]
asciilifeform: 'Public Note: Colorful eggs! You find it! Then what? Donate back to me if you like it. Other eggs are not far, I'd like to leave some clues about the pages or the keys, but I'm sleepy now.' << wat [19:00]
mircea_popescu: i do not know. [19:00]
mircea_popescu: but in other obscure arcana, [19:01]
BingoBoingo: [19:44]
mod6: order placed. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: [Xi] [20:49]
shinohai: <<< Preeeeeeeeeeet to remain in the Trumpreich [20:54]
mircea_popescu: generally rainers/torquemadas/etc are politically pliable [20:55]
mircea_popescu: they just want to smell blood. [20:55]
mod6: << lol, same. [20:56]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:25 mircea_popescu: i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side. [20:56]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1717...3577 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( AR B) [21:05]
asciilifeform: lol ar [21:05]
asciilifeform: has world-open postgresql...? [21:13]
mircea_popescu: soberania. [21:13]
BingoBoingo: Also possible Trump want Preet to leave in scandal the next activist prosecution overturned on appeal [22:55]
BingoBoingo: *wants [22:55]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...1793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( AR B) [23:05]
BingoBoingo: Related "The patient claimed that he was given a staple remover and was told to remove the staples in one week. Emergency department staff stated that they gave him a staple remover to bring to his primary care physician to have the staples removed in 12-14 days. The patient removed the staples three days after they had been placed. Two months later, the patient returne [23:08]
BingoBoingo: d to the emergency department with severe pain, swelling, and warmth to his knee." [23:08]
  1. Symbolic representation of Mother Goddess / Great Inca / USG's State Corporations has been removed. []
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.