Forum logs for 30 Jan 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
dub typical chinese, 'of course i lied, lol' [00:00]
mircea_popescu lol [00:00]
mircea_popescu i mean ror [00:00]
jcpham but out of the box ready to mine with software is a game changer [00:00]
jcpham if you ask me [00:00]
mircea_popescu jcpham someone was opining that they got 300 chips of which 10 work [00:01]
mircea_popescu and made 3 boxes out of them [00:01]
jcpham i haven't read ny of the forum fud [00:01]
jcpham surrounding any of the asic stuff [00:01]
dub I burnt out on it pretty quick [00:02]
dub >9000 troll to 1 usefull post [00:02]
mircea_popescu i get digests [00:02]
jcpham exactly [00:02]
dub you should resell those [00:02]
jcpham i'm not even interested in digests [00:03]
dub make some more money out of your girl [00:03]
jcpham -otc is getting or is like that now too [00:03]
dub >getting [00:03]
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mircea_popescu dub i kinda open source them [00:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 13.8 BTC [+] [00:09]
dub orly? [00:09]
dub HIM? [00:10]
mircea_popescu "ASIC's are not a natural technological generation leap like going from CPU to GPU was. ASIC's are simply specialized processing units made specifically for Bitcoin. Which i do not beleive is following the original intentions of Satoshi, for many reasons." [00:10]
mircea_popescu not reading the forum ? missing out. [00:10]
dub lol who was that? [00:11]
mircea_popescu a thread [00:12]
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mircea_popescu 17k words from 17 post noob [00:12]
mircea_popescu knowing better about everything. [00:12]
mircea_popescu "Would it be even remotely possible to force the change in sha256 bitcoin algorith to something else that asic and fpga devices couldnt compute? [00:12]
mircea_popescu We started off with a bitcoin that anyone could use and now were forced to buy stuff we dont really want. [00:12]
mircea_popescu I realise that there are some ppl that allready invested in asic and fpga, but ton off ppl are unsatisfied with this. [00:12]
mircea_popescu Do U think btc should move away from sha256 and let "normal" people the chance ?" [00:12]
mircea_popescu i have a special section "top 5 most idiotic things" [00:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 112 @ 0.0089 = 0.9968 BTC [-] [00:14]
jurov they'll rather whine instead of improving litecoin [00:15]
jcpham where did that text come from [00:15]
mircea_popescu jcpham the forum [00:16]
Lyspooner let's go to sha 257 [00:17]
Lyspooner asics won't stand a chance [00:17]
jcpham mircea_popescu but 16 posts means he learned a lot about the bitty coins [00:17]
jcpham and the asics [00:17]
mircea_popescu yes i agree [00:17]
mircea_popescu actually https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139704.msg1488175#msg1488175 thats pretty good [00:18]
mircea_popescu chinese scammer impersonating or actualy avalon guy scamming ? [00:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 798 @ 0.01 = 7.98 BTC [+] [00:20]
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thestringpuller [00:22]
thestringpuller chinese scammer impersonating or actualy [00:22]
thestringpuller avalon guy scamming ? << futurama fry right there [00:22]
mircea_popescu i never watched that 1 [00:22]
Namworld people need more BTC-BOND [00:24]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0075 BTC [+] [00:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 258 @ 0.00730771 = 1.8854 BTC [-] [00:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734366 = 2.2031 BTC [+] [00:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6992 @ 0.00065546 = 4.583 BTC [+] [00:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4088 @ 0.00065567 = 2.6804 BTC [+] [00:39]
mircea_popescu anyone here can give me some data on mining implements ? [00:41]
Bugpowder So are the taking the second order money before anyone confirms receiving a functional unit? [00:42]
mircea_popescu trying to. [00:42]
Bugpowder Go Eskimo! [00:42]
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mircea_popescu ;;help [00:43]
gribble The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/ [00:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00064923 = 3.7331 BTC [-] [00:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064699 = 2.7956 BTC [-] [00:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5379 @ 0.00064693 = 3.4798 BTC [-] [00:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [-] [00:47]
Ukto since this channel was quoted into fhe forums, I responded and am posting that response here. Perhaps someone will quote this line as well. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139755.msg1489006#msg1489006 [00:49]
Ukto Namworld: btw, I think those bonus divs were a great use of the pre-timed payouts to get some sales. I think it helped alot for getting shares out. :) [00:50]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 185 [00:53]
gribble 185 [00:53]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,diff 185 [00:53]
gribble 2968775.3320751 [00:53]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,calc 185 [00:53]
gribble use the 'gentime' command instead [00:53]
mircea_popescu ;;gentime 185000 [00:53]
gribble The average time to generate a block at 185000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2968775.33208, is 19 hours, 8 minutes, and 44 seconds [00:53]
Namworld yeah. Well I had indeed made great profit trading options... [00:53]
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Namworld Bonuses I give on BTC-BOND are a very small fraction of what I make. [00:54]
Ukto and its not required, so its pretty cool :) [00:56]
Ukto reminds me of when I had my JAH shares on glbse, and rasta paid divs nightly, even though he only had to paid weekly. [00:56]
burnside Ukto, just so we're clear. Anytime you post something that is incorrect, wrong, or misleading, I'm going to post a follow up with the truth. If that bothers you, I'm sorry, but it has to be done. If you don't want to be called a liar, then don't say definitively that something is true when it is not. [01:01]
Ukto ah, how about a rebuttle where the statement was? [01:02]
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Ukto A bit overkill for forums isnt it? [01:02]
Ukto for something that to this moment looks to be ture? [01:02]
Ukto true? [01:02]
Ukto still have no idea what asking about outstanding shares has to do with lieing or fud [01:03]
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Ukto unless your whole goal is to troll and try to make me look bad ? [01:03]
burnside How could it look to be true that the order book is not backed? Orders you cannot afford get canceled... the functionality is plain and simple. And, you did not even try it? [01:03]
burnside The looking bad part I think you accomplish just fine on your own. [01:04]
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Ukto i cant force wsomeone to buy my shares. [01:04]
Ukto so if I have 20btc, and put 6 5btc bids on assets [01:04]
Ukto and one clears [01:04]
Ukto which ones get canceled? [01:04]
pigeons i'll try it now [01:04]
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Ukto all of them? [01:04]
jcpham go go gadget pigeons [01:05]
burnside you can't put 6 4 btc bids with 20 btc... [01:05]
pigeons the question is when do orders you can't afford get cancelled [01:05]
burnside errr, 6 5 btc bids [01:05]
Ukto fine, call it 30 [01:05]
Ukto wel [01:05]
Ukto actually [01:05]
Ukto why not? [01:05]
Ukto you reserves are per asset [01:05]
Ukto right? [01:05]
Ukto or did deprived lie? [01:05]
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burnside across assets, sure, but not on the same asset [01:05]
TradeFortress *grabs popcorn* [01:05]
Ukto i never said same asset [01:05]
Ukto so lets go back to $20 [01:05]
Ukto er [01:05]
Ukto 20btc [01:05]
Ukto 6 5btc bids [01:05]
Ukto 6 assets [01:06]
Ukto one clears [01:06]
burnside yes, the rest of how it works has been beaten to death [01:06]
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Ukto are all canceled? [01:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 200 @ 0.01 = 2 BTC [+] [01:06]
burnside I get that you don't like it. [01:06]
Ukto answer my question [01:06]
Ukto one 5btc order clears [01:06]
pigeons ok it cancelled other orders [01:06]
Ukto are all teh rest canceled? [01:06]
pigeons as for how it chose [01:06]
Ukto pigeons: all of them ? [01:06]
Ukto or just random [01:06]
pigeons it isn't transparent how it chose [01:06]
burnside ahh, good question. on the bids side your highest bids get canceled. [01:06]
burnside in order [01:06]
Ukto ahh, and its instant? [01:07]
burnside yes [01:07]
pigeons nope not all of them [01:07]
Ukto apparently from the sound of pigeons [01:07]
burnside it's part of the order process [01:07]
burnside and not all of them, just the ones you can no longer afford [01:07]
pigeons when it accepts your order it cancells others for insufficient funds [01:07]
burnside yes [01:07]
Ukto yup, thats cool and nice to know [01:07]
pigeons just don't accept the order [01:07]
Ukto but not what I was going on about. :) [01:07]
Ukto I was saying that in my opinion i feel its a lie to show X btc worth on the books when its not actually there [01:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4100 @ 0.007395 = 30.3195 BTC [+] [01:08]
Ukto and can be abused for pumping [01:08]
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Ukto whcih is why the major stock exchange do not do it [01:08]
burnside I thought about that pigeons, but that's a ui issue where I decided that the order they're placing should rank higher than orders they already had. (what they want to do NOW outranks what they wanted to do yesterday.) [01:08]
Namworld How is it a lie? all bids on the book can be filled right away [01:09]
Ukto so the question is [01:09]
pigeons sometimes you guestimate, if it lets me do it i mathjed right, not here ;) [01:09]
Namworld It can just removes demand on other assets at the same time. [01:09]
Ukto Namworld: so all 6 of my 5btc pids could instnatly be filled even tho I have 20btc? [01:09]
Namworld no [01:09]
pigeons its not fake cause it cancels immediately i agree, but also i dont think its user friendly, shouldnt accept the order [01:09]
Ukto so say I am dumping my shares of all my assets [01:09]
TradeFortress inb4 race attack causes account balance to go negative [01:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00065006 = 3.8679 BTC [+] [01:09]
burnside locking on the backend would essentially work such that only your first 20btc of bids would go through [01:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1464 @ 0.00064716 = 0.9474 BTC [-] [01:09]
Ukto i look, and see hey, if i sell 500 share sof each asset, i should get X [01:09]
Ukto i start with asset A [01:10]
Ukto i goto asset B [01:10]
Ukto and now low and behold [01:10]
Ukto the books are dramatically changed [01:10]
burnside some bids have vanished, yes. [01:10]
Ukto and now I cant get what I expected [01:10]
Ukto because it wasnt actually there [01:10]
Ukto you could play games [01:10]
Ukto and say its no diff than a bot auto moving orders [01:10]
Ukto but there is a level of expectancy [01:10]
Ukto so that is my opinion [01:10]
Ukto that is it a lie. [01:11]
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burnside that's always the case though, on a larger exchange the books are always changing. [01:11]
Ukto as a trader, I like to know that the books are there [01:11]
burnside it's accurate as of when you load the book [01:11]
Ukto and that my own actions are not damanging other possible actions [01:11]
Namworld yeah. Orderbook is true only for the asset you're currently looking at... I don't see the problem with bids on other assets disappearing upon filling that orderbook [01:11]
Ukto Namworld: that is true. [01:11]
Ukto thus it is my opinion [01:11]
Namworld It only prevents evaluating all orderbooks at once [01:12]
Ukto and how I feel about it. :) [01:12]
Ukto and that is yours [01:12]
Ukto Yup [01:12]
Namworld but evaluating one individually will always show an accurate orderbook and that's all I care about. [01:12]
burnside we don't make any claims anywhere for "XX in bids are up across the whole exchange RIGHT NOW" [01:12]
Ukto I think, also to some degree, it misrepresents market size as well [01:12]
pigeons i just spent 2 btc on btc-bond to learn how this works [01:12]
burnside heh, thanks pigeons, we need the volume! [01:13]
Namworld It works by giving you 0.0006 BTC daily [01:13]
burnside errr, assbot has been pretty quiet tho [01:13]
Ukto :) [01:13]
Namworld on 2 BTC [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.0006543 = 6.4776 BTC [+] [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00065561 = 2.8329 BTC [+] [01:13]
Ukto So in the end, I told the truth, that you can set bids on a per asset basis, right? [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 928 @ 0.00065567 = 0.6085 BTC [+] [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6515 @ 0.00065602 = 4.274 BTC [+] [01:13]
Namworld yes [01:14]
burnside no, you lied. you stated unequivocally that you could place 100 btc bids on all assets, withdraw 100 btc, and all your bids would remain. [01:14]
Namworld whut? O.o [01:14]
Ukto and I put in my reubutle it was based on what I could see [01:14]
Ukto and what your system showed [01:14]
Ukto which you stated was accurate [01:14]
burnside [12:05] on btct, I can fill my account with 100btc, put up to 100btc orders on each asset, and withdraw the 100btc [01:15]
burnside [12:05] and then its a complete, lie [01:15]
burnside [12:06] Regardless of 'pumping the numbers', i think traders have a right to knwo that a bid is actually backed, and not just a fake number on the books. [01:15]
burnside ALL bids are backed. [01:15]
burnside as of the time you load the book [01:15]
Ukto on a per asset basis [01:15]
Ukto when looking at the overall market page [01:16]
Ukto its incorrect then [01:16]
Ukto When you withdraw or transfer it cancels your orders you can no longer afford. Plain. Simple. Effective. I even have a display on the withdrawal page clearly showing the maximum you can withdraw without orders getting canceled -- AND, this behavior has been discussed to death in the btct/litecoinglobal threads. [01:16]
burnside I don't say anything about bid depth or order depth on the market. [01:16]
Ukto Clearly, plain and simple.. wow... that must be the cause of the problem right there. [01:16]
Ukto I have 35.5 btc in my account, I have a 35btc order up for a security right now. [01:16]
Ukto The withdraw page clearly, plainly, and simply says I have 35.5btc available to withdraw. No further details. [01:16]
Ukto you state current bid price [01:17]
Ukto which if one of those is touched, could drasticlly change others [01:17]
Ukto but [01:17]
Ukto thats not here nor there [01:17]
Ukto as has been said [01:17]
Ukto we all have our diff opinions on it [01:17]
burnside "No further details" is another piece of FUD. right below the max withdraw: "On the Order Book: YY BTC (not on the order book: XX-YY BTC)" [01:17]
Ukto the word max is not on my page [01:17]
TradeFortress withdrawing is just like automated cancellations [01:18]
burnside The withdrawal page => https://btct.co/transfers [01:19]
burnside We only have one... [01:19]
Ukto https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ruh8ax2w9vwgdj/withdraw.png [01:19]
Ukto nothing about a max [01:19]
Ukto it just give sme a balance [01:19]
burnside lol [01:20]
burnside you have to set a withdrawal address before withdrawal is even available... [01:20]
Ukto nothing about order cancelation [01:20]
Ukto etc [01:20]
Ukto it doesnt say its not available [01:20]
Ukto sorry if the site is confusing [01:20]
burnside obviously any withdrawal is unavailable until you set an address, it says it in plain english... [01:21]
Ukto sure [01:21]
burnside "Withdrawal becomes available once you have set your withdrawal address" [01:21]
Ukto Yup [01:21]
Ukto glad it will be an option [01:21]
Ukto i'll take my 35btc. ;) [01:22]
Ukto when I am ready [01:22]
Ukto as i said, I was talking [01:22]
Ukto pure chat [01:22]
Ukto in here [01:22]
Ukto with a couple people [01:22]
Ukto if it was someone else [01:22]
Ukto would you have taken it to the forums [01:22]
Ukto and called them a liar? [01:22]
Ukto for making a simple mistake? [01:22]
Ukto because there is no documentation anywhere on yoru site [01:22]
Ukto on what happens [01:23]
Ukto and how it happens [01:23]
Ukto no [01:23]
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Ukto you are picking on me specifically [01:23]
Ukto to lower my credibility. [01:23]
Ukto so just stop. k? :) [01:23]
burnside I'll be honest, I hold you to a higher standard. There was no simple mistake. What you stated was not true and you stated it clearly, intentionally, and in a way that damages the company. [01:23]
Ukto hmm [01:23]
Ukto soudns liek things you have done on teh forums [01:23]
Ukto guess were both the same. :) [01:24]
Ukto except I was just talking with a few friends [01:24]
Ukto in an irc channel [01:24]
Ukto where you have gone out of your way to make false assertions [01:24]
Ukto in public view [01:24]
burnside that may be, but I don't think so. I haven't made anything up about BitFunder and stated it as fact. [01:24]
Ukto sigh [01:24]
Ukto then you really dont realize when you make false assertions ? [01:25]
Ukto this is really a matter of not thinking things through ? [01:25]
Ukto or cecking facts before making statements? [01:25]
Ukto Apparently that was me when just talking on irc [01:26]
Ukto as I clicked through things [01:26]
Ukto trying to udnerstand something that was not documented [01:26]
burnside I've made lots of mistakes, mostly in terms of getting sucked into petty bickering. [01:26]
Ukto but your the one who continues it [01:26]
Ukto and starts it [01:26]
Ukto and the puts it out for EVERYONE to see [01:26]
burnside I think we've come full circle: [15:00] Ukto, just so we're clear. Anytime you post something that is incorrect, wrong, or misleading, I'm going to post a follow up with the truth. If that bothers you, I'm sorry, but it has to be done. If you don't want to be called a liar, then don't say definitively that something is true when it is not. [01:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2857 @ 0.00064716 = 1.8489 BTC [-] [01:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 293 @ 0.00064693 = 0.1896 BTC [-] [01:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00064434 = 5.5735 BTC [-] [01:28]
Ukto Alright, so from now on when I ask any questions about your site which does some very unconvential things w/o any supportive documentation, i will create a new irc user [01:28]
Ukto so you dont have to hold it to your high standards [01:28]
Ukto and expectancy to be able to read your mind [01:28]
Namworld Ukto, put a withdrawal address and check the form that appears... [01:28]
Ukto and do everything you expect them to do [01:28]
burnside Heh, how very upright of you. [01:28]
Ukto Namworld: yes, i see that now [01:28]
Namworld and take a screenshot again... [01:28]
Ukto Namworld: as I said, I was just ahving a discussion here on irc [01:28]
Ukto if you for example or someone else had said [01:28]
Ukto "hey, actually it should cancel" [01:29]
Ukto "should show a max withdraw" [01:29]
Ukto or something [01:29]
Ukto i would have said "oh, let me check" [01:29]
Ukto just like when you answered my question about outstanding shares [01:29]
burnside this is a public chan, just as public as the forums. if you want the privacy (and to spread the FUD privately) you can pm anyone you want about it. [01:29]
Ukto and how it worked [01:29]
Ukto burnside: you should post a live irc log on btct [01:29]
Ukto :) [01:30]
Ukto i will get you a list of all bitcoin related channels [01:30]
Ukto so you can monitor them all [01:30]
Ukto and even the ones on all the other networks [01:30]
Ukto so you can critisize any and all users [01:30]
Ukto that make a simple misudnerstanding of your site [01:30]
Ukto you admitted it yourself, youy hold me in higher regards and expectancies [01:31]
Ukto but I am no different then another btct user [01:31]
Ukto i look for the same documentation to yoru custom stuff [01:31]
Ukto i use the same interface [01:31]
Ukto i get confused just as easily as others would [01:31]
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Ukto as Namworld said, he had to spend nearly $40 to understnad your system [01:31]
burnside There's no confusion in stating as fact something that is not true, nor possible. [01:31]
Ukto and how it worked [01:31]
Ukto i dont know whats possible [01:32]
Ukto where is it in the faq? [01:32]
Ukto as I said [01:32]
Ukto i put in the post [01:32]
Ukto I should have wrote "could" [01:32]
Ukto instead of "can" [01:32]
Ukto your nitpicking [01:32]
Ukto and over dramatizing something [01:32]
Ukto you wanna defend yourself, then defend yourself to the people that i outright lied to [01:33]
Ukto you dont have to go "WOH IS ME" to the whole world [01:33]
Ukto and seek attention [01:33]
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Namworld [18:31] as Namworld said, he had to spend nearly $40 to understnad your system [01:35]
Namworld I never said that O.o [01:35]
burnside I'd rather not end up with all this attention. But I can't leave other users confused based on posts of a competing exchange operator. You of all people should be able to wrap your brain around that. [01:35]
burnside I think it was pigeons that said that he'd spent 2 BTC making trades to test Ukto's statements. [01:36]
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Ukto ah [01:38]
Ukto might have been, will scroll back up [01:38]
Ukto Namworld: sorry if i misread that :) [01:38]
Ukto yeah, it was. [17:14] i just spent 2 btc on btc-bond to learn how this works [01:38]
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dub this just in, IRC is srs bzns [02:04]
error4733 hey, totally off topic, a friend made some wallet with old audio tape, i found this awesome, so i share ;) [02:07]
error4733 http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/moq5ne52uqq4505whye4bycvb7oolwt8 [02:08]
dub looks like two iphone cases stuck together [02:11]
dub pretty cool though [02:12]
Ukto actually [02:15]
Ukto thts pretty neat [02:15]
Ukto very retro [02:15]
Ukto I bet they would sell like hotcakes [02:15]
Ukto wonder if hw would consider marketing em? :) [02:15]
Ukto i think teens would like em [02:16]
Ukto mid/late teens, mebbe early 20s [02:16]
dub I think you mean 'hipsters' [02:16]
Ukto yeah hehe [02:16]
Ukto esp. if you can "build your own" selecinting diff tapes, colors etc on the site [02:16]
kakobrekla the result of that would be a bunch of ugly wallets [02:17]
kakobrekla better to stick with the plan [02:17]
Ukto lol [02:17]
duketogo the tapes will all have to be bands that "nobody has heard about" [02:17]
Ukto duketogo: you think so? :/ [02:18]
Ukto I figured if they actually bought the tapes and had receipts [02:18]
Ukto and just destroyed them it was fair game [02:18]
Ukto rather than making fake dupes [02:18]
dub you can buy tapes? [02:18]
Ukto sure, ebay [02:18]
Ukto can buy in bulk [02:18]
kakobrekla resell the case to one party and the music rights to another [02:18]
Ukto kakobrekla: not sure end users can just split the rights like that tho :/ [02:19]
kakobrekla is not split [02:19]
dub I thought duketogo was talking about the hipsters desire to be original by listening to obscure shit [02:19]
error4733 maybe put the music in a usb stick and you sell with the wallet [02:20]
error4733 if its a specific band [02:20]
duketogo aye, the hipster will not want to be seen with a tape wallet featuring a band that had any kind of commercial success ;) [02:20]
dub preferrably put a small amount of explosives in there instead of a usb stick to incinerate the hipster [02:21]
error4733 and yes obv he want marketing em but the prob is the production [02:21]
error4733 he made this one by one [02:21]
dub the other problem of course is what a hipster needs a wallet for? [02:21]
error4733 put some paper wallet inside ? [02:22]
dub money? mom buys everythign [02:22]
error4733 i got one but i'm not a fking hipsters [02:22]
kakobrekla i got one too, if we are talking about moms. [02:23]
kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139763.0 [02:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064455 = 2.7851 BTC [+] [02:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.00064434 = 2.3061 BTC [-] [02:25]
kakobrekla fuckin genious. [02:25]
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kakobrekla >>its also a good game choice I think as its not totally trivial to create a bot for it. [02:26]
kakobrekla well we shall see about that soon [02:26]
dub hehe Challenge Accepted [02:27]
Namworld fuck... can someone make me an uber competent bot? [02:28]
Namworld =P [02:28]
kakobrekla like one that makes you breakfast and gives head? [02:28]
mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/how-to-hedge-as-a-miner/ [02:29]
mircea_popescu everyone that comprehends mining plz to read and comment [02:29]
dub 13w/gh! [02:30]
dub yes plox [02:30]
mircea_popescu what, bfl does 1 w/gh :D [02:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.0073845 = 3.6923 BTC [-] [02:47]
smickles http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/17j3y2/how_to_hedge_as_a_miner/ [02:48]
smickles :P [02:48]
mircea_popescu eee [02:48]
kakobrekla they wont get it. [02:48]
mircea_popescu ;/ [02:49]
mircea_popescu not even with drawrinks!? [02:49]
kakobrekla lets be suprised [02:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00064667 = 2.0693 BTC [+] [02:50]
mircea_popescu well wtf am i to do. [02:50]
kakobrekla bet on it. [02:50]
smickles kakobrekla: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/17j454/how_to_hedge_as_a_miner_xpost/ [02:50]
smickles :P [02:51]
kakobrekla dunno. [02:51]
kakobrekla anyone got anything good to watch for reccomendation [02:52]
mircea_popescu danke smickles [02:52]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla try all about eve [02:52]
mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/trilema/category/trilematograf/ or just go through that list [02:53]
kakobrekla 140min [02:53]
kakobrekla really worth it? [02:53]
smickles tinkerlinks, ftw [02:53]
smickles srsly [02:53]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla welll... i dunno really what you like [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064461 = 2.7854 BTC [-] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5271 @ 0.00064434 = 3.3963 BTC [-] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00064374 = 4.4418 BTC [-] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1850 @ 0.00063666 = 1.1778 BTC [-] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12058 @ 0.00063598 = 7.6686 BTC [-] [02:54]
kakobrekla dunno borrig stuff i think. [02:54]
mircea_popescu bah i stay up to write docs for miners, ppl sell mpoe. THIS IS THE THANKS I GET! [02:54]
smickles don't look at me, i just leveraged long [02:55]
assbot I cooked, I cleaned, and I sewed, and I have a right to get-- [02:55]
smickles is this a fill in the blank? [02:56]
mircea_popescu ducked ? [02:56]
smickles crunk? [02:56]
mircea_popescu pluived ? [02:57]
kakobrekla no [02:57]
smickles refactored? [02:57]
mircea_popescu this just in, IRC is srs bzns [02:58]
mircea_popescu loller. [02:58]
smickles oh no [02:59]
kakobrekla smickles the answer is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zgXnSKgopY [03:00]
smickles i might be shadow-banned on reddit? [03:00]
smickles kakobrekla: linked to blocked content? [03:00]
mircea_popescu smickles i saw your link earlier [03:00]
smickles mircea_popescu: that's just it, direct links work, but check the /r/bitcoin page or the /r/bitcoin/new [03:01]
smickles not there [03:01]
kakobrekla i guess you could replace -- with 'shit'. [03:01]
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mircea_popescu http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/new?sort=new [03:02]
mircea_popescu or here [03:02]
kakobrekla smickles huh? [03:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1700 @ 0.00732036 = 12.4446 BTC [-] [03:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.007395 = 1.1093 BTC [+] [03:04]
dub might be blocked in 'murica, cuts a little close to home [03:05]
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kakobrekla too bad [03:05]
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mircea_popescu im off. take it ezzy all [03:08]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [10:14]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://mpex.co || https://coinbr.com || https://cryptostocks.com || https://icbit.se || https://therocktrading.com || https://assets-otc.com || https://www.havelockinvestments.com || https://bitfunder.com || https://btct.co || http://picostocks.com || list bot commands: !help || Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades [10:14]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Mon Dec 24 19:40:09 2012 [10:14]
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JohnGalt !s.dice [10:17]
JohnGalt !ticker s.dice [10:17]
assbot It's so strange that you don't remember any of your poetry. [10:17]
mircea_popescu !ticker m s.dice [10:18]
assbot [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00711564 / 0.00735027 / 0.007395 (85447 shares, 628.06 BTC), 7D: 0.00085848 / 0.00547144 / 0.0075 (1181450 shares, 6,464.24 BTC), 30D: 0.00085848 / 0.00440993 / 0.0075 (9302204 shares, 41,022.10 BTC) [10:18]
Bowjob I find it a bit strange that mpex dice shares haven't lost value while Havelock's are a bit down [10:18]
mircea_popescu Bowjob yest they were trading .8 [10:19]
Bowjob Yeah [10:19]
mircea_popescu well... and the guy came by and bought more s.dice [10:19]
Bowjob I'd imagine with dice shares would plummet now that the whale got 9k in 1 day. [10:19]
mircea_popescu why ? [10:20]
Bowjob The profits are down? [10:20]
Bowjob Well, im still figuring out if dice is up or down, looks like the whale is still playing [10:20]
mircea_popescu listen, most people with that sort of nonsense outlook aren't on mpex [10:20]
mircea_popescu they can't afford the fee. [10:20]
Bowjob right [10:21]
mircea_popescu !ticker h sdice [10:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.69500000 / 0.7513125 / 0.78000000 (80 shares, 60.10499969 BTC), 7D: 0.44000000 / 0.64762229 / 0.81000000 (1311 shares, 849.03282861 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.51008583 / 0.81000000 (5482 shares, 2796.29051793 BTC) [10:22]
mircea_popescu was up cause of lack of asks, prolly relaxed a little once owner bought a little more s.dice and put it on offer [10:23]
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maximian bowjob: s.dice is practically brand new and is just getting going - its big earning days are still ahead of us. Variances like a 9k loss to a whale are meaningless if you're in for the long term. [10:24]
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mircea_popescu actually i imagine the largest single factor affecting price is people's judgement of how likely a sale to a large player is. [10:26]
maximian I do anticipate that - it makes sense [10:27]
mircea_popescu stuff like the recent online casinos opening btc to the us is prolly more pressure than whether someone makles or loses 10k [10:27]
mircea_popescu course, this is all speculation about what people may be speculating about lol. [10:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00065466 = 7.1031 BTC [-] [10:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064931 = 2.8057 BTC [-] [10:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66 @ 0.00064918 = 0.0428 BTC [-] [10:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.0006485 = 8.9493 BTC [-] [10:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006456 = 2.7896 BTC [-] [10:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00064528 = 7.2271 BTC [-] [10:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1735 @ 0.00064423 = 1.1177 BTC [-] [10:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064457 = 2.7852 BTC [+] [11:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3725 @ 0.00064423 = 2.3998 BTC [-] [11:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00064423 = 9.3413 BTC [-] [11:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3540 @ 0.00064423 = 2.2806 BTC [-] [11:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6597 @ 0.00064187 = 4.2344 BTC [-] [11:40]
mircea_popescu Graet would you be so kind to link this somewhere http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/how-to-hedge-as-a-miner/ ? [11:40]
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Graet i'll read it laterm kids dinner time mircea_popescu [11:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00064187 = 2.8242 BTC [-] [11:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 712 @ 0.00734477 = 5.2295 BTC [+] [12:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24 @ 0.00064187 = 0.0154 BTC [-] [12:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00064169 = 1.9482 BTC [-] [12:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064744 = 2.7976 BTC [+] [12:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9163 @ 0.00064755 = 5.9335 BTC [+] [12:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11516 @ 0.00064855 = 7.4687 BTC [+] [12:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006483 = 2.8013 BTC [-] [12:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 934 @ 0.00064855 = 0.6057 BTC [+] [12:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10645 @ 0.00065454 = 6.9676 BTC [+] [12:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00730215 = 3.286 BTC [-] [12:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064199 = 2.774 BTC [-] [12:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11879 @ 0.00064169 = 7.6226 BTC [-] [12:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 950 @ 0.00064636 = 0.614 BTC [+] [13:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00064199 = 2.4717 BTC [-] [13:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00065438 = 2.8276 BTC [+] [13:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11479 @ 0.00065454 = 7.5135 BTC [+] [13:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006543 = 2.8272 BTC [-] [13:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15179 @ 0.00065454 = 9.9353 BTC [+] [13:35]
kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139649.0 [13:45]
kakobrekla http://glados.cc/gold/ [13:45]
kakobrekla legit [13:45]
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jurov hi mircea_popescu, got a question about x.idiffs [13:47]
jurov how do i know how much is the cover? [13:47]
jurov when i buy some and difficulty rises, when they'll go *poof*? [13:48]
kakobrekla i showed that xdiff thingie to a guy with ~300ghash [13:49]
kakobrekla said he dont like insurances. [13:49]
jurov nobody likes it, cause of above uncertainty [13:49]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2000 @ 0.0075 = 15 BTC [+] [13:50]
jurov practically every time you do MKFUT, collateral changes, not even saying anything about next quarters [13:50]
jurov and buyers don't know what to expect, let's have practical example [13:51]
jurov i have sold 20x x.idiff.mar to bugpowder fellow for 1.7711 BTC [13:51]
jurov but the cover is actually less, am searching how much it was [13:53]
jurov (if i inderstand idiffs correctly) [13:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2753 @ 0.00065454 = 1.8019 BTC [+] [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9104 @ 0.00065471 = 5.9605 BTC [+] [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11170 @ 0.00066438 = 7.4211 BTC [+] [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00066563 = 4.6261 BTC [+] [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211 @ 0.00066576 = 0.1405 BTC [+] [13:54]
jurov hmm, stat says IMMCover is 1.95470556 so it's a bit more... but still we don't know how much cover others provided [13:57]
jurov would you buy future for 1.7BTC that's covered only up to 1.95 ? i doubt [13:58]
jurov poor bugpowder, first that s.dice blunder, then this :DDD [14:01]
jurov http://glados.cc/gold/ ,pffft. i'll wait for mithril bars [14:04]
kakobrekla ah is back online now [14:05]
kakobrekla was just givin an error before [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 471 @ 0.00064199 = 0.3024 BTC [-] [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4585 @ 0.00064169 = 2.9421 BTC [-] [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00064149 = 3.5923 BTC [-] [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5844 @ 0.00064143 = 3.7485 BTC [-] [14:05]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.6120002 = 6.12 BTC [-] [14:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.612 = 6.12 BTC [-] [14:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.611 = 2.444 BTC [-] [14:40]
kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139931.0 [14:41]
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gesell based on the S.DICE betcount total on Jan 1 and current count I'm seeing a %14 increase in dividends. It's a simplistic calculation. Match what everyone else thinks or does someone have something more sound? [14:50]
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malaimo if you have a look at the statistical analysis thread over at bitcointalk.org you can see that yesterday was a very bad day for s.dice [14:55]
gesell ahh thanks [14:56]
malaimo https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.780 [14:56]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.5611 = 1.1222 BTC [-] [14:59]
malaimo but I guess if you consider regression to the mean satoshidice will be fine... [14:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1945 @ 0.00734477 = 14.2856 BTC [+] [15:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00064685 = 6.9213 BTC [+] [15:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064175 = 2.773 BTC [-] [15:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.00064143 = 2.2957 BTC [-] [15:10]
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markedathome clearly, dooglus is trying to out mircea_popescu as the mystery player, why else can I get "MPEX pay SDICE with SMPOE" out of the addresses listed in #782 [15:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066275 = 2.8637 BTC [+] [15:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9150 @ 0.00066278 = 6.0644 BTC [+] [15:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006635 = 2.867 BTC [+] [15:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15479 @ 0.00066381 = 10.2751 BTC [+] [15:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2808 @ 0.00066287 = 1.8613 BTC [-] [15:42]
jurov no, he's buying twelve pound solid bricks of crystal meth [15:44]
jurov (see second recent trilema article) [15:44]
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DeadWeasel i'm pretty sure he's transporting them as 12" crystal meth dildos to get past customs. [15:48]
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jurov If nobody is to be routinely told exactly what a worthless, pointless accidental and undesired item they are then certainly nobody’s to be told they’re welcome to dream into one palm, piss in the other and see which feels warmer to the touch. [15:52]
jurov and he calls someone snide. yeah. [15:52]
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assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.009 = 0.9 BTC [+] [16:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 11 @ 0.0091 = 0.1001 BTC [+] [16:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2279 @ 0.00066381 = 1.5128 BTC [+] [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14849 @ 0.00066576 = 9.8859 BTC [+] [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1722 @ 0.00066577 = 1.1465 BTC [+] [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00066577 = 3.9946 BTC [+] [16:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00066577 = 5.2596 BTC [+] [16:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1513 @ 0.00066287 = 1.0029 BTC [-] [16:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16737 @ 0.00066282 = 11.0936 BTC [-] [16:28]
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thestringpuller ;;ticker [16:51]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.45001, Best ask: 19.52026, Bid-ask spread: 0.07025, Last trade: 19.42100, 24 hour volume: 53313.83367467, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.80000, 24 hour vwap: 19.35731 [16:51]
thestringpuller ;;asks 29 [16:51]
gribble There are currently 35300.69 bitcoins offered at or under 29.0 USD, worth 746476.392038 USD in total. [16:51]
thestringpuller ;;asks 29 [16:51]
gribble There are currently 35300.69 bitcoins offered at or under 29.0 USD, worth 746476.392038 USD in total. [16:51]
thestringpuller ;;asks 20 [16:51]
gribble There are currently 17178.888 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 340747.595972 USD in total. [16:51]
thestringpuller ;;bids 19 [16:52]
gribble There are currently 4392.8697 bitcoins demanded at or over 19.0 USD, worth 84249.722342 USD in total. [16:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00066282 = 6.827 BTC [-] [17:03]
jurov ;;bc,24 [17:06]
gribble Error: "bc,24" is not a valid command. [17:06]
jurov ;;bc,24hprc [17:06]
gribble 19.28 [17:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00066328 = 3.9134 BTC [+] [17:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066542 = 2.8753 BTC [+] [17:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12679 @ 0.00066577 = 8.4413 BTC [+] [17:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2223 @ 0.00730522 = 16.2395 BTC [-] [17:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 550 @ 0.00734477 = 4.0396 BTC [+] [17:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00066577 = 5.6923 BTC [+] [17:40]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.645 BTC [+] [17:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149 @ 0.00066577 = 0.0992 BTC [+] [17:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11651 @ 0.00066664 = 7.767 BTC [+] [17:59]
Bugpowder 19.60 taken out [18:02]
Bugpowder knock 3 times and the door to $20 opens? [18:03]
jurov yeah, rally right after i sold some...but i can't wait longer [18:08]
jurov oh Bugpowder you weren;t around when i discussed the mpex idiffs ? [18:08]
Bugpowder no shame in selling at $19 [18:08]
Bugpowder don't think so [18:09]
Bugpowder I have sold some [18:09]
Bugpowder idiffs [18:09]
Bugpowder deposit req is harsh [18:09]
jurov so, unless mircea corrects me, it comes out they are covered only up to 2.9x current difficulty [18:09]
jurov so these i made only up to 9 M [18:10]
Bugpowder yeah [18:10]
Bugpowder i sold the same ones [18:10]
Bugpowder but before the last expiry [18:10]
Bugpowder so mine got up to 27 [18:11]
jurov so basically you bought futures for 1.7BTC that are covered only up to 1.95 [18:11]
Bugpowder I've had a long discussion wiht mp about this [18:11]
Bugpowder i didn't [18:11]
Bugpowder I sold some [18:11]
Bugpowder a month ago [18:11]
Bugpowder the SAME ones [18:11]
jurov okay. but overall i'm correct? [18:11]
Bugpowder but mine go up to 27 [18:11]
Bugpowder and when the 9 threshold is hit, the expiry is spread across both sets of sold futures [18:12]
jurov but the cover averages over all idiff shares, no? [18:12]
Bugpowder yeah [18:12]
jurov so i diluted it in fact [18:12]
Bugpowder yes thank you [18:12]
Bugpowder my exposure is reduced now [18:12]
Bugpowder there is no way to know [18:12]
Bugpowder what the actual distribution of 27 and 9s is [18:13]
jurov yes, there is no way to know what the cover is. well, i got an idea how to fix it [18:13]
Bugpowder great [18:13]
jurov CoinBr.IDiff will come to bitfunder soon ;D [18:13]
Bugpowder cool [18:13]
Bugpowder idiff is useful [18:13]
Bugpowder but needs some refinement [18:13]
Bugpowder and liquidity [18:14]
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Bugpowder hmmm maybe I will make some [18:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066302 = 2.8649 BTC [-] [18:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7146 @ 0.00066282 = 4.7365 BTC [-] [18:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 242 @ 0.00734477 = 1.7774 BTC [+] [18:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 8 @ 0.3001 = 2.4008 BTC [-] [18:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.3001 = 1.5005 BTC [-] [18:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 7 @ 0.3 = 2.1 BTC [-] [18:19]
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assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 4 @ 0.0238 = 0.0952 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 12 @ 0.0237 = 0.2844 BTC [-] [18:25]
Bugpowder I made some idiffs! [18:27]
Bugpowder buy buy buy! [18:27]
Bugpowder priced to MOVE [18:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066642 = 2.8796 BTC [+] [18:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2979 @ 0.00066657 = 1.9857 BTC [+] [18:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6576 @ 0.00066657 = 4.3834 BTC [+] [18:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734477 = 2.2034 BTC [+] [18:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+] [18:45]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C190T] 10 @ 0.21604376 = 2.1604 BTC [+] [18:49]
mircea_popescu ahhh how goes it boys an' girls ? [18:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+] [18:55]
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jurov hi mircea [19:02]
mircea_popescu heya [19:03]
jurov i'm going to improve idiff futures ;) [19:03]
mircea_popescu o ? [19:03]
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mircea_popescu said he dont like insurances. <<< heh. [19:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734477 = 2.2034 BTC [+] [19:16]
mircea_popescu markedathome I seriously have played a grand total of maybe 3 btc on s.dice. [19:16]
thestringpuller ;;ticker [19:16]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.42769, Best ask: 19.54999, Bid-ask spread: 0.12230, Last trade: 19.42769, 24 hour volume: 50009.52094866, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.63999, 24 hour vwap: 19.35837 [19:16]
thestringpuller ;;asks 20 [19:16]
gribble There are currently 14954.611 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 297782.475441 USD in total. [19:16]
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markedathome mircea_popescu: i just thought it was funny that I could get those words out of the way the addresses were arranged. [19:17]
thestringpuller ;;bids [19:17]
gribble (bids [--under] ) -- Calculate the amount of bitcoin demanded at or over . If '--under' option is given, find coins or at or under . [19:17]
thestringpuller ;;bids 19 [19:17]
gribble There are currently 5527.276 bitcoins demanded at or over 19.0 USD, worth 105766.29329 USD in total. [19:17]
mircea_popescu markedathome i guess by now pretty much everything's somewhat connected to mpex [19:18]
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markedathome doesn't really matter, you could make any sequence of chars out of something if you look hard enough. took me a while to get smpoe [19:18]
mircea_popescu o o i see lol [19:19]
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mircea_popescu there's this kaballah thing where they look for the nth letters sort of thing [19:20]
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mircea_popescu jurov the collateral is 2.9x the current diff per set, so march are currently about .1 ad june about .3 [19:20]
jurov yes, but the buyer doesn't know where it is exactly. especially if previous quarters are mixed in [19:21]
mircea_popescu buyer knows it's not going to be less than 2.9x whatever quarter he buys in [19:22]
jurov it can be anywhere from (lowest difficulty in this quarter)*2.9 and more [19:22]
mircea_popescu yes, but not less. [19:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+] [19:22]
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mircea_popescu sooo... what else is new ? [19:27]
jurov we'll see how it goes after we open it. just that i think that buying future at 0.075 , while expected cover may be 0.0095 or maybe more isn't so attractive [19:28]
jurov *0.095 [19:28]
mircea_popescu why do you have to buy it at .075 ? [19:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00731818 = 3.6591 BTC [-] [19:29]
jurov it's lowest price offered to date. and seems nobody will sell it for less. [19:30]
mircea_popescu well sure but best bid is like 4mn [19:30]
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jurov where? [19:31]
mircea_popescu for mar. [19:31]
mircea_popescu and for that matter i dunno if i'd buy at 7.5mn. what, diff doubles in the next six weeks ? [19:32]
mircea_popescu i dun see it. [19:32]
jurov well, remains to be seen if it actually trades at such price [19:32]
mircea_popescu i think like 20 sold or something, but that's really nothing. [19:34]
jurov yes, i experimentally sold 20 at 0.89 [19:34]
jurov *0.089 [19:34]
mircea_popescu i'd imagine at a bare minimum there should be 50% coverage which would put the volume in the 100k range per month or somrthing [19:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31595 @ 0.00066657 = 21.0603 BTC [+] [19:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5899 @ 0.00066664 = 3.9325 BTC [+] [19:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 370 @ 0.00066731 = 0.2469 BTC [+] [19:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00066849 = 2.1392 BTC [+] [19:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2874 @ 0.00066915 = 1.9231 BTC [+] [19:42]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [19:43]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.46042, Best ask: 19.60448, Bid-ask spread: 0.14406, Last trade: 19.46042, 24 hour volume: 49860.53894881, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.63999, 24 hour vwap: 19.35926 [19:43]
mircea_popescu so what's new, anyway ? [19:43]
jurov zimbabwe has $247 in bank... wanna buy? [19:43]
mircea_popescu buy what, the country ? [19:45]
jurov yes [19:45]
mircea_popescu nah, too much hassle. [19:45]
jurov they should kick mugabe and move to bitcoin [19:47]
jurov and list on mpex, if you allow them lol [19:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066493 = 2.8732 BTC [-] [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22185 @ 0.00066467 = 14.7457 BTC [-] [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1707 @ 0.00066282 = 1.1314 BTC [-] [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15537 @ 0.00066045 = 10.2614 BTC [-] [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00065833 = 1.5471 BTC [-] [19:48]
mircea_popescu lol, REAL PRECIOUS JEEM [19:48]
mircea_popescu the thing is, they're not smart enough to do any of tham. [19:48]
mircea_popescu that* [19:48]
DeadWeasel can't run a country on volatility like this. maybe later. [19:49]
DeadWeasel when I can afford my own atoll in the south pacific, i'll run my country on BTC. [19:49]
mircea_popescu DeadWeasel btc is not particularly volatile for that purpose. [19:50]
jurov would be infinitely better than their current $ [19:50]
mircea_popescu exactly. [19:50]
mircea_popescu most national currencies are worse than btc in that perspective. [19:51]
DeadWeasel true, they can't even control it as is. [19:51]
mircea_popescu i mean, when it crapped out it only dropped 90% [19:52]
mircea_popescu do you think the greek drachma would have ONLY dropped 90% recently ? [19:52]
mircea_popescu for that matter, once things blow over do you suppose the usd will only drop 90% ? [19:52]
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Bugpowder 19.6999 [19:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00734477 = 1.469 BTC [+] [20:11]
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smickles ;;ticker [20:20]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.63201, Best ask: 19.70472, Bid-ask spread: 0.07271, Last trade: 19.63201, 24 hour volume: 49943.54713803, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.70323, 24 hour vwap: 19.36427 [20:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066882 = 2.89 BTC [+] [20:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4026 @ 0.00066915 = 2.694 BTC [+] [20:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00066938 = 8.6015 BTC [+] [20:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1253 @ 0.00066967 = 0.8391 BTC [+] [20:22]
mircea_popescu why do women fuck better when they have real high heels on ? [20:24]
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mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125629.msg1490001#msg1490001 this totally can't be happening. [20:37]
mircea_popescu burnside_afk are you like, paying him to troll me ? [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00731819 = 2.1955 BTC [-] [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00731818 = 2.1955 BTC [-] [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1100 @ 0.00730522 = 8.0357 BTC [-] [20:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066777 = 2.8854 BTC [-] [20:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 517 @ 0.00066756 = 0.3451 BTC [-] [20:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8583 @ 0.00066756 = 5.7297 BTC [-] [20:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2373 @ 0.00066704 = 1.5829 BTC [-] [20:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4844 @ 0.00066565 = 3.2244 BTC [-] [20:54]
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smickles mircea_popescu: if women fuck better in highheels, I'm willing to bet that it's just a (possibly localized) social phenomenon [20:59]
mircea_popescu how much ? [21:01]
mircea_popescu Keefe hey, you around ? [21:01]
jcpham my data doesn't support that hypothesis [21:01]
jcpham about the high heels [21:01]
smickles 10 btc, It's probably just a coincidence that it's high heels, could've been converse allstars [21:02]
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mircea_popescu smickles how do we check it ?! [21:02]
mircea_popescu jcpham hum. pics ? [21:02]
smickles we could probably setup a double blind crossover trial [21:02]
mircea_popescu smickles well if we just kidnap test subjects off the street its unethical and if i let you bring your own you'll cheat. [21:03]
smickles that's why it needs to be double blind [21:03]
mircea_popescu how can you fuck double blind ?! [21:03]
smickles you hire impartial subject, and impartial observers [21:03]
mircea_popescu if you hire them they're no longer representative. [21:03]
smickles how do human trials of drugs find subjects? [21:04]
smickles don't they hire people? [21:04]
smickles or, you're saying that only sexworkers would apply? [21:05]
mircea_popescu ya but drug stuff objectively interacts with the subjects [21:05]
kakobrekla seems to me usagi has an answer to everything always just before he quits. [21:05]
mircea_popescu im saying that whoever will apply fails to represent the entire set adequately [21:05]
smickles that's were statistics come in [21:05]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla haven't seen him/her in a while... [21:05]
smickles you'd have to have a large enough set of subjects [21:05]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu he was just here [21:05]
mircea_popescu smickles i doubt statistics can help, because the sample is selected [21:05]
smickles and make sure they don't know whats being tested [21:05]
mircea_popescu smickles you're gonna hire people to fuck without telling them ? [21:06]
smickles naw, they know generally what they are going to do [21:06]
midnightmagic dub: What's confusing about combining monies to obscure their sources and screw up crappy "taint" analyses? [21:06]
midnightmagic IMO, it is ethical to point out, publically, serious flaws in the way information is presented to the public. [21:06]
smickles but neither the observers or the subjects know what we're trying to test [21:06]
mircea_popescu smickles then they're only representing that subsection of the population who'll generally do that. [21:06]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic what's this all about ? [21:07]
kakobrekla http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/01/zimbabwe-down-its-last-217/61562/ [21:07]
mircea_popescu poor them [21:08]
mircea_popescu Zimbabwe, the country that's home to some of the world's largest platinum and diamond reserves, literally has the same financial standing as a 14-year-old girl after a really good birthday party. [21:08]
smickles mircea_popescu: then we could structure it in a way that we have people in situations where the might likely have sex without being prompted, it would make it larger, take longer and be more expensive [21:08]
mircea_popescu i dunno about the 14 yo girl. [21:08]
mircea_popescu smickles sounds like a plan. now we know what's with all the cctv [21:09]
mircea_popescu they're trying to measure this. [21:09]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: A little while ago, dub was saying he doesn't understand gmaxwell's mixer thing. It's not really a mixer, it's guaranteed to be essentially impossible to disentangle those sorts of transactions due to the fungibility of bitcoin. [21:09]
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mircea_popescu o, that thing where he's trying to create a trail showing himself to be rich ? [21:10]
mircea_popescu sounded singularly scammy to me, that. [21:10]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: right. but it has other uses, too. [21:10]
mircea_popescu yeah. like, for instance, privately convincing some naive people with a lot of money that you matter. [21:10]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: It is cryptographically secure; and, actually, gmaxwell is taking a bit of a risk doing it. [21:10]
mircea_popescu at any rate i wasn't impressed. [21:10]
midnightmagic no, it's mocking two things: 1) rich-lists, 2) taint analyses. [21:11]
mircea_popescu send your btc to mpex, withdraw it, end of story. it's as anon as it will ever get. [21:11]
midnightmagic That's not actually so. *you* know. [21:11]
mircea_popescu oh ? [21:11]
mircea_popescu how are you going to disentangle btc that went through the same address ? [21:12]
midnightmagic We go to your house with a large lead pipe and start hitting you with it until you tell us. [21:12]
mircea_popescu tell you what ? [21:12]
midnightmagic Figuratively of course; or apply legal pressure so it's not worth it to keep it secret. [21:13]
mircea_popescu listen [21:13]
midnightmagic Which is kind of the same thing.. [21:13]
mircea_popescu i know nothing at all. you can create a gpg sig right now as 34jk5hty895ytg9g4t [21:13]
mircea_popescu register it [21:13]
mircea_popescu depost [21:13]
mircea_popescu withdraw. [21:13]
smickles mircea_popescu: the trail is by txid, addresses are just incidental [21:13]
mircea_popescu what do i know ? that it's really 34jk5hty895ytg9g4t's btc ? [21:13]
mircea_popescu smickles what do you mean ? i dun follow. [21:14]
midnightmagic hrm. maybe I've misapprehended how you operate MPEX. I've never logged in. [21:14]
midnightmagic Do you really allow anonymous usage of mpex? [21:14]
mircea_popescu yeah well. yes. [21:14]
kakobrekla there is no log in :) [21:15]
mircea_popescu it's in the faq -.0 [21:15]
midnightmagic well, in that case, at the very least, there's a trust thing which can't be cryptographically avoided, unless you are doing multisig similar to what gmaxwell is. [21:15]
mircea_popescu sending to 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx and then withdrawing has the certain advantage that you're actually in a pool of 10's of k's of btc, [21:16]
midnightmagic if I deposit 500,000 bitcoin to you, what happens if you decide to keep it? [21:16]
mircea_popescu which gmaxwell's thing will never ever get. [21:16]
midnightmagic that would be an advantage of numbers. [21:16]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic deposit it over 500 transactions, what diff does it make to you ? [21:16]
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midnightmagic mircea_popescu: Presumably you could, if you wanted, just decide to keep it. [21:16]
smickles mircea_popescu: I believe it's more accurate to say that control of coins goes from one txid to another, rather than one address to another. the fact that it's known which address is associated with wich txid at this time is incidental [21:16]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic you don't send the 5th 1k block till you got the 4th to your addy [21:17]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: But it would be an advantage to join with all those people and withdraw, you are correct. [21:17]
mircea_popescu smickles ok, but what does that change ? [21:17]
smickles pedantry [21:17]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic im just saying, if i were a scammer trying to part some fiat ivnestors from their money, i'd do the exact thing he's doing. [21:17]
mircea_popescu not meaning by this he is a scammer, i still think he's an idiot [21:18]
mircea_popescu but the idea isn't too bright. [21:18]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: The mathematics of it makes it impossible. [21:18]
mircea_popescu say what ?! [21:18]
midnightmagic he couldn't steal the coins. [21:18]
mircea_popescu not steal the coins. [21:18]
mircea_popescu he just goes to buffett and proves to him that he owns address X [21:18]
midnightmagic it's impossible, he doesn't have sole signing authority of a multisig. [21:18]
mircea_popescu buffett has a dim understanding of taint and blockchain and doesn't read the forum [21:18]
mircea_popescu thus believes this guy actually has a billionty bitcoinz [21:18]
midnightmagic how does he prove to buffett that he "owns" the address from which the money came from? he can't. [21:19]
mircea_popescu he just "proves" he's btc-rich by association. [21:19]
mircea_popescu that's the entire point of the exercise, right ? [21:19]
midnightmagic no, he can't. [21:20]
midnightmagic no, it's not. [21:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 456 @ 0.00066565 = 0.3035 BTC [-] [21:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7344 @ 0.00066502 = 4.8839 BTC [-] [21:20]
mircea_popescu ok, again from the top [21:20]
midnightmagic He's wrecking identity collapse methods. [21:20]
mircea_popescu maybe we're not talking of the same thing. [21:20]
midnightmagic Okay, from the top. When someone tries to figure out a particular identity, they use the method as described in the identifying mechanisms presented at 28c3 in germany: transactions "prove" that the person who "owns" the inputs is the same person. [21:21]
mircea_popescu right. [21:21]
midnightmagic This method can be used to collect a pile of individual txn and "collapse" all the addresses into one entity. [21:21]
mircea_popescu right. [21:21]
midnightmagic They're different addresses though. So gmaxwell comes along and offers to join his own money into a multisig *transaction* which has an output of some other, new addresses. [21:22]
mircea_popescu right. [21:22]
midnightmagic Now, the old methjod of collapsing identity fails. *but* individual addresses still remain the property of the original people. [21:22]
midnightmagic and *actual coinage* never actually goes through gmaxwell's hands. [21:22]
mircea_popescu right. [21:22]
midnightmagic there's no way of "proving" that the money is in an address that gmaxwell can use to spend. [21:23]
mircea_popescu but wait. [21:23]
mircea_popescu the entire process actually involves an address of gmaxwell into what'd be a single collapsed identity. [21:23]
mircea_popescu right ? [21:23]
midnightmagic so he couldn't go to buffett and prove he owns the coins without lying to him and claiming that "that one txn right there proves i could have controlled x money" because he can't forge the signature of the address from the bigspender. [21:23]
midnightmagic no. [21:23]
mircea_popescu ... [21:24]
midnightmagic well. lemme go read wtf he wrote. [21:24]
midnightmagic because I've already done it with him a bunch of times, so lemme go check and see whether it's the same thing. [21:24]
mircea_popescu dude, it's simple. currently people think they can group addies into wallets [21:24]
mircea_popescu by means of collapsing txns [21:24]
mircea_popescu gmaxwell is trying to collect a number of addies in varying wallets into single such collapsed presumed wallets [21:24]
mircea_popescu to show that it doesn't work, he tells us. [21:24]
mircea_popescu but it may well be to show someone who doesn't read the forum that he has a huge wallet. [21:25]
midnightmagic no, it doesn't pass through his addresses. [21:26]
mircea_popescu ok, let me formalise this. [21:26]
midnightmagic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139581.msg1486430#msg1486430 [21:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1491 @ 0.00730522 = 10.8921 BTC [-] [21:26]
midnightmagic What would need to happen would be that someone would have to take the word of a totally untrusted third-party who says, "well look here, this is all from the same person" [21:27]
midnightmagic but this is the naive viewpoint, because identity collapsing could just be limited to txn which involve limited outputs. [21:27]
mircea_popescu There's addresses a1-an, b1-bn, ... x1-xn belonging to wallets A, B, ... X. Through tx collapse one can extract out of the blockchain what appear like wallets A', B', ... X'. These wallets will contain a number of addresses, which may or may not coincide with the proper a1-an set for A. In general it's safe to asume that A != A', but it may also be the case that A ~= A'. [21:28]
mircea_popescu this ok so far ? [21:28]
midnightmagic At any rate, there's no way to prove to buffett that he specifically had *control* of the coins. [21:28]
midnightmagic the spends go to completely unrelated addresses, which the end-user should be careful not to mix in terms of spending, with the input addresses. [21:29]
mircea_popescu well so ok or not ok! [21:29]
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midnightmagic hrm. i'd have to think about it some more to agree with your statement. there's a large hand-wavey part wrapped up in the identity collapse. [21:30]
mircea_popescu well yeah. but it yields somehow some sort of A' approximation [21:31]
mircea_popescu however wildly inaccurate. [21:31]
midnightmagic Also, when you use ~=, do you mean "approximately equals"? [21:31]
mircea_popescu yes. [21:31]
mircea_popescu in the sense that [1, 9, b] approximately equals the set of prime numbers. [21:31]
mircea_popescu b isn't even a number and 9 isn't prime, but hey. [21:31]
smickles pedantry/g 20 [21:32]
smickles lol [21:32]
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smickles ;;asks 20 [21:32]
gribble There are currently 14208.378 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 283035.775173 USD in total. [21:32]
* smickles is now known as approxprime [21:33]
midnightmagic I interpret the ~= to mean that some addresses overlap or can be related to the addresses prior, but that's what I say can't be related unless the owner of the outputs of the transactions signs a non-multisig transaction that requires A' *and* A addresses together in a single-output txn, *and* we assume that people would automatically steal from one another if they could. [21:33]
dub midnightmagic: I thought gmaxwell was generally against coin mixing, he railled aganst gpumax for that reason unless I am forgetful [21:34]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic what difference does all that make tho ? [21:34]
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midnightmagic dub: Actually, he railed against gpumax because gpumax appeared to be a coin laundry that the participants were unaware of. (exchanging dirty for pristine at a premium.) [21:34]
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midnightmagic mircea_popescu: It means that gmaxwell can't prove to buffett that he owns those coins; and that his purpose isn't to put on a tweed coat and a bowler's hat and smoke a pipe and say he's rich. [21:35]
mircea_popescu never mind that, don't jump ahead. [21:35]
mircea_popescu im trying to construct the logic of this here, stay with the step we're on [21:35]
dub midnightmagic: so what he's doing isn't making laundry of btc unnecessary? [21:36]
midnightmagic lol but we can't move on without detailing the method of identity collapse. [21:36]
mircea_popescu why ? [21:36]
midnightmagic dub: What he's doing involves two or three (or more) parties who are taking an enormous risk that the outputs won't be used for nefarious purposes. [21:36]
mircea_popescu makes no difference. for all we care it can be throwing darts. [21:36]
mircea_popescu it's a method. black box. [21:36]
dub its all about fungibility thought right? [21:37]
dub which is the aim of money laundering [21:37]
midnightmagic because you are formalizing something based on hand-wavey identity collapse methods which transactions like gmaxwell's proposed txn are being designed specifically to foil. [21:37]
approxprime dub: i thought gmax didn't like gpumax b/c it gave financial incentive to undermine the mineing network [21:37]
* approxprime is now known as smickles [21:37]
mircea_popescu this is ridiculous. [21:38]
dub smickles: idk, I thought it was the laundry aspect [21:38]
dub anyway, my confusion was teh apparent about face [21:38]
mircea_popescu dude, if i say "a car will move items around the surface of the earth" a discussion of combustion engines is out of place [21:38]
midnightmagic smickles: I'm not really sure how it could except by tipping someone over 50%. pirate claimed on many occasions that gpumax often had > 50% of the hashrate but he was being responsible wiht it. [21:38]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: Hey man that's a false analogy. But if you want to rhetorically accept the "identity collapse" thing, fine. Go on then and make your point, I'll listen. [21:39]
mircea_popescu thank you! [21:39]
midnightmagic (i just wanted to register my objection early) [21:39]
mircea_popescu so, accepting that however flawed, nonsensical or poiintless, some sort of method makes A' out of perceived interractions in the blockchain [21:39]
mircea_popescu gmaxwell proposes to deliberately add together a3, b9, c4, f12 etc [21:40]
dub sorry, whats the difference between "identity colapse" and "money laundering"? [21:40]
mircea_popescu so as to carefully construct something that by that however flawerd, nonsensical etc method WOULD APPEAR to be a single wallet, call it G [21:40]
mircea_popescu right ? [21:40]
midnightmagic dub: One of them is a forensic analysis of transactions to determine likely owners, and the other is an attempt to use transactions to foil the methods of determining owners. [21:40]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: No, not a single wallet. [21:41]
dub midnightmagic: lol but the end result is the same no? [21:41]
midnightmagic oh, sorry, I know what you mean. [21:41]
mircea_popescu right! [21:41]
mircea_popescu so now, at this point, we have two results. [21:41]
mircea_popescu publicly, we have the result that indeed the method is discredited. [21:41]
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mircea_popescu privately, however, if some idiot doesn;'t know about all this, we have what may be construed as a very fat wallet G [21:41]
mircea_popescu which gmaxwell can :"prove" he owns by signing with his own address [21:42]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: By the methods of identity collapse as they stand, yes, it comingles wallets and makes A B C D ... X all appear to be G [21:42]
mircea_popescu as tenuous proof as this would be [21:42]
mircea_popescu my point is entirely that some naive party may actually be thus fooled. [21:42]
midnightmagic he couldn't prove he owned them because he could prove he was able to make *all* of the signatures in the multisig. only a fraction of them. [21:42]
mircea_popescu right, but that may be the standard he's held to. [21:42]
mircea_popescu "a tiny fraction", ie, one. [21:43]
midnightmagic Either you or I could go prove to a naive party that we own all the bticoins in the world right now. [21:43]
mircea_popescu well yes, but this is a little more ellaborate than just "it's based on math" [21:43]
mircea_popescu now, again, im not saying this is what gmaxwell is doing [21:43]
mircea_popescu all im saying is i wouldn't participate inter alia because i have not any way of knowing this isn't the case. [21:43]
midnightmagic Cryptographic proof would require gmaxwell produce sigs which show he was the owner of *all* the inputs to the transaction. [21:43]
mircea_popescu as unlikely as it may seem or ultimately be. [21:43]
midnightmagic I would offer that people who would believe gmaxwell's partial multisig signatures means he owned millions of dollars maybe aren't the sort of people you want to be getting into bed in business with anyway. [21:45]
mircea_popescu well... maybe. [21:45]
mircea_popescu people who have money are usually old. people who grok technology are usually young. [21:46]
mircea_popescu the two rarely meet on equal footing. [21:46]
midnightmagic Vint Cerf? [21:46]
midnightmagic I love that guy. He looks like the Architect from the Matrix. [21:46]
mircea_popescu http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/01/zimbabwe-down-its-last-217/61562/ [21:46]
mircea_popescu this article is great, incidentally. [21:46]
mircea_popescu buncha niggers got uppity, kicked out the white "opressors" [21:46]
midnightmagic Don't super-rich people usually rely on other people to tell them what's going on? [21:47]
mircea_popescu are now starving. [21:47]
midnightmagic whoa brutal man :-/ [21:47]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic yeah. problem is sometimes these people are experts a la taaki. [21:47]
midnightmagic taaki? [21:47]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic right. stealing farmer's farms because they're white wasn't brutal. [21:47]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: Calling them names isn't helpful given the brutal oppression involved. [21:48]
smickles mircea_popescu: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2013/01/17/Zimbabwe-clinic-cleared-of-goblins/UPI-22371358443628/ << better [21:48]
mircea_popescu im all for opression. [21:48]
mircea_popescu the civilisation of the human race is a work of opression. our problem is that we've stopped doing it. [21:48]
midnightmagic hahaha goblins. [21:49]
mircea_popescu "IRISVALE HALT, Zimbabwe, Jan. 17 (UPI) -- Residents of a Zimbabwe village said they've "cleansed" a medical clinic of goblins but nurses who fled the clinic are still too afraid to come back to work." [21:49]
mircea_popescu lmao [21:49]
mircea_popescu ihalped.jpg [21:49]
midnightmagic i'm gonna have to back slowly away from this conversation now.. [21:49]
midnightmagic or at least that topic. [21:49]
mircea_popescu you seriously see a problem with smacking the "residents" of the hut agglomeration across the skull [21:50]
mircea_popescu till they're cleansed of goblins in the head ? [21:50]
smickles i suspect the (language used in)zimbabwe to english transation which results in goblin, starts with ginger [21:51]
dub doubt it [21:51]
mircea_popescu prolly some sort of evil spirit [21:52]
smickles i want to belive [21:52]
mircea_popescu whatcha got against gingers ? [21:52]
smickles that they arn't seriously talike about goblins [21:52]
smickles *talken' [21:52]
dub thats the seat of the 'raping virgiins cures your aids' wisdom [21:52]
midnightmagic is the goblin cleanse involving people getting the shit kicked out of them? [21:53]
mircea_popescu dub i thought that was more like congo [21:53]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic i wonder how they pronounce salem in khosa [21:53]
dub unfortunately I think the reality is that our species needs quite a bit of die-back and the natural place for this to occur is the third world [21:53]
midnightmagic I see a problem with the notion that white people are blameless and that civilising people requires brutal murderous oppression. [21:54]
mircea_popescu xhosa* [21:54]
mircea_popescu white people are not blameless [21:54]
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mircea_popescu in fact, they're about as stupid as anyone else. [21:54]
mircea_popescu but civilising requires beating. [21:54]
midnightmagic I agree! [21:54]
midnightmagic I disagree with the beating statement! [21:54]
midnightmagic lol [21:54]
mircea_popescu heh. too late :D [21:54]
midnightmagic All it needs is a strong science-based education and it just naturally follows. [21:55]
smickles mircea_popescu: the only thing i have against gingers is that there is more humor revolving around gingers than mutt-american [21:55]
midnightmagic heh heh [21:55]
mircea_popescu ever since you bleedin' hearts took out the beatings nothing gets done anymore. [21:55]
mircea_popescu smickles actually ginger chicks are the best! [21:55]
midnightmagic dark red angry chicks are pretty awesome. [21:56]
smickles i don't hold that against them tho [21:56]
smickles :P [21:56]
mircea_popescu lol [21:56]
mircea_popescu plus, a good caning shows for like a week [21:56]
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mircea_popescu anyway. so is zimbabwe becoming the first extrateritorial province of china ? [21:58]
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DeadWeasel don't they own the majority of America's debt too? [22:00]
jborkl about to take out $20 [22:00]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [22:02]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.65807, Best ask: 19.68000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02193, Last trade: 19.68000, 24 hour volume: 49442.39791191, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.73800, 24 hour vwap: 19.37328 [22:02]
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midnightmagic americans seem to be more willing to just inflate their currency rather than let the chinese dominate foreign debt as much as they were. [22:03]
mircea_popescu yeah but i suspect the chinese are about a degree of magnitude more competent with infiltration [22:04]
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dub All it needs is a strong science-based education and it just naturally follows. [22:06]
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dub lol [22:06]
dub that is some religion level disconnect [22:06]
thestringpuller we need more bitches up in herr [22:07]
mircea_popescu alll it needs is math. [22:07]
thestringpuller here* [22:07]
dub mircea_popescu: MAFF [22:07]
mircea_popescu muff ? [22:07]
dub and fings [22:07]
thestringpuller EskimoBob: hater to the end [22:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066935 = 2.8923 BTC [+] [22:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00066967 = 2.7456 BTC [+] [22:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4079 @ 0.00067234 = 2.7425 BTC [+] [22:11]
midnightmagic dub: 11:55 < midnightmagic> heh heh [22:12]
midnightmagic dub: So.. I guess.. that is some religion-level context elimination [22:12]
midnightmagic :) [22:12]
dub guilty [22:13]
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mircea_popescu if you're going to make better people by educating them [22:15]
mircea_popescu history is prolly a better bet than maff. [22:15]
dub EskimoBob: stop talking to yourself crazy person, everyone else tuned you out a long time ago [22:15]
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midnightmagic angry EskimoBob [22:16]
midnightmagic vitriolic people who aren't angry usually have scarier problems? [22:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1800 @ 0.00730522 = 13.1494 BTC [-] [22:18]
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Bugpowder https://twitter.com/jgarzik [22:19]
dub http://dundundun.net/ [22:20]
jcpham the tweet [22:21]
dub I'd be out the door quick smart [22:22]
dub fuck work or whatever else he's doing [22:22]
jcpham yeah no joke [22:22]
mircea_popescu o is it ?! [22:22]
Bugpowder every moment he delays is money out of his pocket [22:22]
jcpham i would be mining [22:22]
jcpham it if exists [22:22]
Bugpowder Maybe someone will buy my idiffs [22:22]
mircea_popescu lolz [22:23]
dub boss: I've got the shits, bye [22:23]
midnightmagic EskimoBob: Did you rage and forget the rage? [22:23]
mircea_popescu wait, wait. [22:23]
mircea_popescu wasn't someone posting a supposed cgiminer screenshot earlier ? [22:23]
dub mircea_popescu: wizkid was trolling [22:23]
mircea_popescu i thought it was from j a ok [22:23]
mircea_popescu how long did it take in the end, 10 days ? [22:24]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140052 [22:26]
mircea_popescu this is pretty good. [22:26]
dub b-cup? [22:27]
mircea_popescu who ? [22:27]
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jcpham no way i'm giving that guy money [22:27]
jcpham i rememeber all his spew on the foum after pirate ditched [22:27]
jcpham he was going to "help out" [22:28]
mircea_popescu what, apprehend the evil doers and restore peace and justice [22:28]
mircea_popescu and save the day ? [22:28]
mircea_popescu tom green is like gengis khan. somehow he's managed to have like 200 million kids. [22:29]
smickles lol, so he raised the 15million or so usd to start a credit union? [22:31]
smickles it says it's 100% legal [22:31]
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dub I don't think he's in the US [22:32]
mircea_popescu i don't think he knows what he's doing. [22:33]
mircea_popescu has some funny site run off a sort of blogspot free hoster [22:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2385 @ 0.00066502 = 1.5861 BTC [-] [22:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00066216 = 6.9196 BTC [-] [22:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00065909 = 6.1625 BTC [-] [22:34]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 85 @ 0.0075 = 0.6375 BTC [+] [22:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.0075 = 0.75 BTC [+] [22:36]
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smickles dub:BITCOIN CREDIT UNION [22:41]
smickles 8613 REED DRIVE #1 [22:41]
smickles 28594 EMERALD ISLE NC [22:41]
smickles USA [22:41]
smickles from his link [22:41]
dub otru [22:41]
mircea_popescu cool, cause his link is to norway's dba authority [22:41]
DeadWeasel are people sending him coins? [22:41]
mircea_popescu and theres some reference to having to do it in sweden somewhere [22:42]
dub they inevitably will [22:42]
mircea_popescu bitcoin wants to be sent. [22:42]
mircea_popescu smickles see what a sucker you are ? [22:43]
mircea_popescu should have made a credit union instead of an accounting firm [22:43]
DeadWeasel it does. it's so easy it almost jumps out of my wallet. [22:43]
smickles § 54‑50. Number of incorporators; capital stock. [22:43]
smickles Any number of persons, resident freeholders of the State, not less than 15, may associate to establish an association on the terms and conditions and subject to the liabilities hereinafter prescribed. The aggregate amount of the capital stock of any such association shall not be less than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000). Such association shall mean a corporation organized under the laws of the State for the purpose of making loans upon agricultu [22:43]
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smickles well, it's a little easer than arizona [22:44]
smickles but NC requires 15 peeps and 20kusd [22:44]
mircea_popescu whoa no wai. [22:44]
mircea_popescu there's just no wai that's the whole story. [22:44]
smickles and if he just meets the minimus, it severely limits what he can do in his operations [22:44]
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jborkl Wait, I don't see the point of what he is doing. If you need to exchange there is GOX and if someone needs a loan they just go scam off the lending forum right? [22:46]
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mircea_popescu jborkl something like that [22:47]
smickles mircea_popescu: actually, it changed in 1981 [22:50]
smickles to 10 peeps [22:50]
smickles and 350000 usd [22:50]
dub jesus christ [22:51]
smickles and an additional 75000 to be held has proof they can pay their expenses for the first year [22:51]
dub the internet might be about to have a bad day [22:51]
smickles all funds have to be withdrawable in us legal tender if requested [22:51]
smickles the administrator of it has to have a net worth of >=1.5 million usd [22:52]
smickles *personal net worth [22:52]
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smickles it needs a permanent capital reserver of no less than 500000 in addition to all this other stuff [22:53]
dub EskimoBob logic 101: 1) call eveyone names and generally make a cunt out of yourself 2) ask them to break teh law for you [22:53]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.008 BTC [-] [22:58]
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smickles EskimoBob: rather than circumventing local law, why don't you get the law changed? [23:05]
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smickles heh, i'm sure it take longer than that, but lowering taxes ought to be popular enough [23:06]
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smickles and there is probably an organization already trying to acheive the same goal [23:07]
rng29a how long does it take before a bet appears on bitbet ? [23:09]
rng29a lol [23:10]
smickles EskimoBob: http://www.cutthevat.co.uk/ [23:10]
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smickles if you ain't co.ukian, i'm sure they could put you in touch with your country's similar organization [23:11]
smickles heh, an excellent reason why you should pay the vat [23:12]
smickles you don't care to oppose it [23:12]
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zerokwel whats the point in being in politics they all as bad as each other [23:23]
zerokwel and yep 20% vat sux [23:24]
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jcpham muahahha [23:29]
jcpham smickles the credit union is Sweeeeeeeeeedish [23:29]
jcpham he complies with all Sweeeeden laws [23:30]
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dub rape capital of the world [23:35]
Bugpowder wow. S.DICE over 1,100,000 BTC bet this month [23:35]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 0.9789 BTC [-] [23:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 5 @ 0.95 = 4.75 BTC [-] [23:45]
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jurov http://garzikrants.blogspot.sk/2013/01/once-upon-time-in-china-package-shipped.html [23:50]
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dub its HUGE [23:51]
Diablo-D3 its not really that big [23:52]
Diablo-D3 its smaller than my ATX case [23:52]
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Bugpowder They shipped it with a chinese power cable? [23:57]
Bugpowder hope he has an adapter [23:58]
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Namworld hmm... S.DICE profits went down like hell... [23:58]
Bugpowder yah [23:58]
Bugpowder variance dood [23:58]
Bugpowder nobody talks about the variance when S.DICE outperforms [23:58]
jcpham i love variance [23:59]
Bugpowder ;;calc 21000/.0075/100000000 [23:59]
gribble 0.028 [23:59]
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Bugpowder 2.8% EV dividend [23:59]
Bugpowder not bad [23:59]
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Bugpowder ;;calc 21000/.00735/100000000 [23:59]
gribble 0.0285714285714 [23:59]
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