Forum logs for 26 May 2012
Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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| kinksbbx | ukash anyone? | [01:58] |
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| mircea_popescu | mpoe may results of horror are in : http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/mpoe-rezultate-mai-2012/ | [03:18] |
| vragnaroda | vodka: STFU | [03:19] |
| mircea_popescu | what ? | [03:19] |
| vragnaroda | mircea_popescu: Annoying titlebot is annoying. | [03:20] |
| vragnaroda | [20120525 20:19:07-0400]< vodka> | [ MPOE, rezultate Mai 2012 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ] - http://polimedia.us <-- I don't see how this adds any more information over what you already said. | [03:20] |
| vragnaroda | vodka: WHATTHEFUCK, STOP IT. | [03:21] |
| mircea_popescu | yeah | [03:21] |
| mircea_popescu | lol he did it again ? (i put it on ignore early on and totally forgot it's a bot, thought you were taljking to me) | [03:21] |
| vragnaroda | Yes, the domain root URL was enough to trigger it again, but with even less information. | [03:22] |
| vragnaroda | [20120525 20:20:54-0400]< vodka> | [ Polimedia srl - Homepage ] - http：//polimedia。us | [03:22] |
| mircea_popescu | lol | [03:22] |
| vragnaroda | There, I changed the colon and the period to Chinese punctuation. | [03:22] |
| vragnaroda | vodka: :P | [03:22] |
| * | vragnaroda smacks vodka around a bit. | [03:23] |
| vragnaroda | I'll remember that in the future, just to fuck with it. | [03:23] |
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| * | Now talking on #bitcoin-otc-eu | [12:21] |
| * | Topic for #bitcoin-otc-eu is: Eurozone #bitcoin-otc || http://bitcoin-otc.com || Include hash tag #eu in order notes to group -eu orders. || View all tagged -eu orders here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?notes=%23eu || Exchange rates: !bc,convert CURRENCYCODE || GET BTC WITH ukash/paysafecard ... /msg neliskybot help || options-> http://polimedia.us/btc || bitcoin hosting -> http://bitvps.com/ | [12:21] |
| * | Topic for #bitcoin-otc-eu set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Fri Apr 20 21:40:27 2012 | [12:21] |
| mircea_popescu | good morning otc-eu ppls! | [12:21] |
| bitsmith | 'sup | [12:36] |
| mircea_popescu | http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/money/dont-serve-carbon-lies/story-e6frezc0-1226366534694 | [12:38] |
| mircea_popescu | this is fucken outrageous. | [12:38] |
| Ukto | wtf is carbon tax | [13:22] |
| mircea_popescu | right. | [13:58] |
| mircea_popescu | the brits are about as socialistic today as the russians were in 1930. | [13:58] |
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| kakobreklaaa | !bc,convert eur | [17:27] |
| gribble | 1 BTC = 5.11005 U.S. dollars = 4.08216169 Euros | [17:27] |
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| * | vragnaroda taxes mircea_popescu's carbon. | [19:18] |
| vragnaroda | mircea_popescu: :p | [19:18] |
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| Cory | mircea_popescu: Are expired options immediately removed from MPEx's listings? | [20:03] |
| mircea_popescu | Cory well depends what you mean. if you mean from your account yes. if you mean from the listing page no, | [20:03] |
| mircea_popescu | they never are removed, their meaning just changes | [20:04] |
| mircea_popescu | as in, T means april till end of april, then means may. | [20:04] |
| Cory | Right now, since it is past the last Friday in May but is still May, what does T indicate? | [20:04] |
| mircea_popescu | may. expire on 25th | [20:05] |
| mircea_popescu | and you mean past last fri in april i imagine. | [20:05] |
| mircea_popescu | eugh i mean. | [20:05] |
| mircea_popescu | june! | [20:05] |
| mircea_popescu | let's do this again from the top : T means june, expires on the 29th. | [20:05] |
| Cory | Heh, all right. Got it. | [20:06] |
| Cory | smickles and I are wondering if http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=O.BTCUSD.P055T is "worth" $0.10 more than its current sell price. | [20:06] |
| mircea_popescu | let me see | [20:07] |
| mircea_popescu | O.BTCUSD.P055T sells at 0.29, which would be ~1.49$ | [20:07] |
| mircea_popescu | seeing how bitcoin is not quite 4 yet... | [20:08] |
| Cory | Oh, the price is in BTC? | [20:08] |
| mircea_popescu | yes. | [20:09] |
| mircea_popescu | you're thinking the old mpoe site, which was $ denominated, | [20:09] |
| mircea_popescu | but mpex prices everuything in btc so. | [20:09] |
| Cory | Got it. Thanks! | [20:10] |
| mircea_popescu | my pleasure. | [20:10] |
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| Bigpiggy01Mining | Buying 4-500 BTC 4 Alipay | [21:50] |
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| miernik | Bigpiggy01Mining: this Alipay thing, does it have chargebacks? | [21:58] |
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| Bigpiggy01Mining | nope | [21:59] |
| miernik | Bigpiggy01Mining: I tried to register, but seems you need to be a business | [22:02] |
| mircea_popescu | i think you need to be in uk | [22:03] |
| miernik | no, there where lots of countries to choose from but you need to put some business licence | [22:04] |
| miernik | so its not usable for person to person transactions | [22:04] |
| mircea_popescu | aha | [22:04] |
| Bigpiggy01Mining | bot outside China, Malaysia and South Korea yet | [22:13] |
| Bigpiggy01Mining | UGH | [22:13] |
| Bigpiggy01Mining | not | [22:13] |
| rg | i might switch to something named webmoney | [22:45] |
| rg | apparently its much better for BTC trading | [22:45] |
| rg | (and officially allowed by them.. for now) | [22:45] |
| miernik | Webmoney? with 0.8% fees, endless levels of verifications which takes ages to understand and you never know when they block you and request the next level, crappy confusing interface, and generally load of crap | [22:47] |
| rg | i dont care as long as it allows me to trade BTC for USD fearlessly | [22:48] |
| mircea_popescu | i never heard good things about them either | [22:48] |
| rg | its honestly gotten that bad. | [22:48] |
| rg | i cant even trade with trusted people these days without shit getting fucked up | [22:48] |
| miernik | I have an account, but generally avoided it, expensive to put money in and out, not useful for much | [22:48] |
| mircea_popescu | has it !? | [22:48] |
| rg | mircea_popescu: see spawn- | [22:49] |
| rg | and my account that's -220$ | [22:49] |
| rg | that was for important bitvps shit | [22:49] |
| rg | he basically managed to throw us completley off course with $200 | [22:49] |
| mircea_popescu | a, yea. he wasa dubious guy tbh. | [22:50] |
| miernik | rg: -220$ in your webmoney account? they allow negative balances? | [22:50] |
| mircea_popescu | at least that's what he seemed to me & few others | [22:50] |
| miernik | rg: I don't get why would you use Webmoney... its more difficult and expensive to put money in/out of there then with exchanges | [22:51] |
| miernik | rg: why not just trade with exchanges and/or p2p escrow floor bitmarket.eu and bitcoin.de + wire transfers | [22:52] |
| rg | no, not webmoney | [22:52] |
| rg | our paypal is -220 | [22:52] |
| rg | i usually just use paypal as .. i only trade with the same 7-8 people | [22:52] |
| rg | that's how i avoid getting fucked | [22:52] |
| rg | but even that's not working anymore | [22:52] |
| rg | wire transfers?! | [22:53] |
| rg | i dont have a bank acount | [22:53] |
| rg | what do i look like, donald trump?! | [22:53] |
| miernik | rg: why would you ever use paypal for trading bitcoin? its about the worst possible option | [22:53] |
| miernik | rg: what's wrong with having a bank account? | [22:53] |
| miernik | rg: having a Paypal account is infinetly worse then having a bank account | [22:54] |
| miernik | and BTW I don't understand how can someone have a Paypal account without having a bank account... I mean how would one even put and withdraw money to/from Paypal | [22:55] |
| mircea_popescu | i can see miernik 's point here. a bank account solves a lot of problems. esp if it can do sepa. | [22:55] |
| miernik | I thought anyway its impossible to have a Paypal account without a bank account | [22:55] |
| mcorlett | I agree with Mierncea. | [22:56] |
| miernik | Paypal is only a thing to use paying on eBay, nothing else | [22:56] |
| mircea_popescu | mcorlett lol | [22:57] |
| mircea_popescu | miernik well, he could have a card w/o a bank acct i think | [22:57] |
| miernik | btw there is a nice new exchange, where one can deposit money instantly with some methods (sofort SEPA for EUR, credit/debit card for USD): https://bitcoin-24.com/ | [22:58] |
| miernik | vodka: I posted about the same about 1 second before you, LOL :) | [22:59] |
| mircea_popescu | vodka is a bot. | [22:59] |
| mircea_popescu | anyway, do you know who runs it ? | [22:59] |
| miernik | oh, sorry :) I thought its a person and it was a coincidence :) | [23:00] |
| miernik | some guy from Germany | [23:00] |
| mircea_popescu | im kinda looking for a nexchange to list on mpex. | [23:00] |
| miernik | quite responsive on email, seems a sensible guy | [23:01] |
| rg | what that polish dude | [23:04] |
| rg | he runs an exchange too | [23:04] |
| rg | wtf is it called | [23:04] |
| rg | its not a conventional exchange, its more of a web 2.0 -otc | [23:04] |
| rg | which is better | [23:04] |
| miernik | rg: you mean Bitmarket.eu ? | [23:04] |
| miernik | rg: that's the only exchange I know run by a polish guy | [23:05] |
| rg | YEP | [23:05] |
| rg | that's him | [23:05] |
| miernik | rg: but its not a full exchange, they only allow sell orders and escrow bitcoin, the people pay directly to the seller | [23:05] |
| rg | the owner is a great guy | [23:05] |
| miernik | but Bitcoin-24 and Bitmarket.eu are completely different exchanges, different people, different domains | [23:06] |
| miernik | rg: the Bitmarket guy is sometimes slow on Email response | [23:06] |
| rg | ive not seen him on IRC in some time | [23:07] |
| rg | he's usually m_r | [23:07] |
| miernik | I sometimes wonder how much dedicated are these people to keep the wallet secure... | [23:07] |
| rg | probably not very much | [23:07] |
| rg | bitvps had to invent its own bitcoind patch to stay secure | [23:08] |
| miernik | if they're not rich, they probably won't pay back if they lose it | [23:08] |
| rg | cause we Definitely cant afford to lose any btc | [23:08] |
| miernik | as they don't make a lot of money on the exchange | [23:08] |
| mircea_popescu | security is a majort problem acrioss the board | [23:08] |
| mircea_popescu | as amply illustrated on so many occasions. | [23:08] |
| miernik | rg: bitvps is... not an exchange... | [23:09] |
| miernik | so no problem with wallet as it doesn't need to do withdrawals | [23:09] |
| miernik | a receive-only wallet is not a problem | [23:09] |
| miernik | in keeping secure | [23:09] |
| rg | erm | [23:09] |
| rg | bitvps is not an exchange but hosts other peoples wallets | [23:10] |
| rg | that they expect to be secure | [23:10] |
| rg | you could probably get a bitcoinica-sized chunk of BTC from owning bitvps | [23:10] |
| miernik | in fact no operation should ever keep any wallet on any machine ssh-able from the internet, ever | [23:10] |
| rg | well, you can ssh in just fine | [23:10] |
| rg | if you're on the vpn | [23:10] |
| rg | i dont believe in firewalls | [23:10] |
| miernik | that's insane | [23:10] |
| rg | just plain security through obscurity | [23:10] |
| rg | people think firewalls are this save-all | [23:11] |
| rg | that will protect you from everything | [23:11] |
| miernik | if I would do an exchange I wouldn't keep the wallet on any machine to which you can login in any way from the internet | [23:11] |
| mircea_popescu | miernik i don't, for mpex. | [23:11] |
| miernik | its actually not that difficult to setup, I am amused the Bitcoinica, Mybitcoin and other guys kept wallets on machines accessible remotely | [23:12] |
| miernik | its just asking for trouble | [23:12] |
| mcorlett | miernik: How do you suggest they do it? | [23:13] |
| miernik | mcorlett: simple, a machine which has the wallet has only outgoing connections (behind a NAT) | [23:13] |
| mircea_popescu | even simpler : machine only gets connected when you make payments. | [23:14] |
| guruvan | ++ mircea_popescu | [23:14] |
| mircea_popescu | firewalls are good, but airgaps are the golden standard. | [23:14] |
| miernik | mcorlett: it'd regulairly poll several other machines which authorise withdrawals, and not one, but about three different independent machine would have to authorise a withdrawal | [23:14] |
| rg | pff | [23:14] |
| rg | those are lame | [23:15] |
| rg | here is the BitVPS Bitcoind Patch v0.1 | [23:15] |
| rg | rpcbillingip = IP of your billing | [23:15] |
| rg | rpcadminip = IP used for admin | [23:15] |
| rg | so | [23:15] |
| rg | rpcbillingip can only do a few things | [23:15] |
| * | guruvan likes the triple verification /by machines that do NOT trust each other/ | [23:15] |
| rg | it can: getinfo, getnewaddress, listtransactions | [23:15] |
| rg | anything else gets discarded and logged | [23:15] |
| rg | rpcadminip = has full access | [23:16] |
| rg | so if someone owns your billing software | [23:16] |
| rg | they cant just withdraw all your BTC | [23:16] |
| miernik | one of these authorising machines is connected to the web interface of the exchange, where the user requests a withdrawal, but the other one asks the user by e-mail with a one-time code and requests that it posts the code to a different website hosted on a different machine, in a different datacenter, and that machine authorizes itself to the wallet machine | [23:17] |
| guruvan | IMO, it's also wise to have an offline wallet that has a process to check the hot wallet's balance, report anomolies, and fill it if need be (like the time lock safe at the Stop & Rob) | [23:17] |
| rg | that's why i like our method | [23:17] |
| rg | it only works for us | [23:17] |
| rg | cause of the way our billing works | [23:17] |
| guruvan | and not refill if it was emptied too quickly too recently | [23:18] |
| miernik | every of those machines is hosted physically in a different datacenter, so physically compromising would require cooperation of different hosting centers | [23:18] |
| guruvan | of course, any machine connected to anything, or that receives any external media, can be compromised | [23:18] |
| guruvan | bitcoiners are liable to get bitten by offline usb-stick "hopper" viruses | [23:19] |
| guruvan | miernik: sounds pretty good to me - hard to pwn at least | [23:20] |
| rg | if you run windoze | [23:20] |
| rg | and are dumb | [23:20] |
| rg | sure | [23:20] |
| rg | 'autorun enabled... that seems good' | [23:20] |
| guruvan | no | [23:20] |
| rg | 'better run it as administrator to make sure it works nicely!' | [23:21] |
| guruvan | linux & mac can get pwned by offline worms like that | [23:21] |
| rg | i cant see how linux would | [23:21] |
| guruvan | PDFs | [23:21] |
| rg | right but you have to OPEN the pdfs | [23:21] |
| rg | where as in windoze, the second you stick it in you're infected (lol) | [23:21] |
| guruvan | well...yeah | [23:21] |
| guruvan | but | [23:21] |
| guruvan | stupid people are stupid | [23:22] |
| rg | that's true | [23:22] |
| guruvan | "stuxnet" | [23:22] |
| rg | stuxnet was written by some very skilled programmers | [23:22] |
| rg | with not much knowledge of malware | [23:22] |
| guruvan | pwned all kinds of highly technical people with just that kind of worm | [23:22] |
| mircea_popescu | how would a pdf worm own linux ? | [23:22] |
| guruvan | pft | [23:22] |
| guruvan | old hat now | [23:22] |
| guruvan | mircea_popescu: pdf is how iphone (just another unx) got owned | [23:22] |
| rg | well | [23:23] |
| rg | here's the thing | [23:23] |
| rg | linux follows the first and easiest part of basic security theory | [23:23] |
| rg | which is resource separation | [23:23] |
| * | guruvan only uses linux fwiw | [23:23] |
| rg | so if you were to get owned via this method on linux | [23:23] |
| rg | you could essentially just userdel the user | [23:23] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan for sure you can pwn specified flavours | [23:23] |
| mircea_popescu | but you said "linux" | [23:24] |
| rg | provided your server is setup properly and didn't get ./owned | [23:24] |
| mircea_popescu | i never heard of a worm that could own linux in general. | [23:24] |
| guruvan | well....I was generalizing on the pdf | [23:24] |
| rg | some security researchers have been poking around KVM | [23:24] |
| mircea_popescu | yeah ok | [23:24] |
| rg | making my life less than awesome | [23:24] |
| rg | cause we use kvm | [23:24] |
| guruvan | there's lots of file types that can get infected | [23:24] |
| rg | most user intervention required exploits do not function properly on linux | [23:25] |
| rg | cause any linux user worth a damn is going to wonder why an application would need root | [23:25] |
| guruvan | not | [23:25] |
| guruvan | most linux users would have no idea | [23:25] |
| guruvan | (sysadmins, maybe so, users, not) | [23:25] |
| rg | that's why im conflicted | [23:26] |
| rg | so | [23:26] |
| rg | here we have say.. Ubuntu and Linux Mint | [23:26] |
| rg | both distros which basic purpose is to take Windoze share away | [23:26] |
| guruvan | I support all things linux......but I'm gonna change out my mining network to gentoo this week | [23:26] |
| rg | 'simple and easy to use linux' | [23:26] |
| rg | however | [23:26] |
| rg | when you use these 'simple and easy to use' linuxes | [23:26] |
| rg | you miss out on the best part of linux | [23:27] |
| rg | and that's a terminal with bash | [23:27] |
| rg | so basically what we're doing instead of building a new generation of savvy linux users | [23:27] |
| rg | we're building a generation of people who wouldnt know what to type if their X server wouldnt start | [23:28] |
| rg | which is worse | [23:28] |
| rg | a bunch of clueless windoze users or clueless linux users? | [23:28] |
| guruvan | ooo....look at android :D | [23:29] |
| guruvan | it's linux | [23:29] |
| guruvan | they're clueless. | [23:29] |
| guruvan | it's getting hit massively by malware (and some exploits of the base os will translate to other distros) | [23:30] |
| rg | android is a mess atm | [23:31] |
| rg | they have these 'stable' kernels they distro with it | [23:32] |
| rg | which are pretty much the source of every jailbreak kit | [23:32] |
| rg | standard linux kernel exploit ported to ARM | [23:32] |
| * | mircea_popescu starts whining about a certain tv program to piss off vrag | [23:35] |
| rg | which one | [23:35] |
| rg | mircea_popescu: are you an op in here? | [23:35] |
| * | guruvan eggs mircea_popescu on | [23:35] |
| mircea_popescu | rg i don't think anyone's an op here. | [23:35] |
| guruvan | gribble is | [23:35] |
| vragnaroda | There are a few. | [23:35] |
| mircea_popescu | well, kakobreklaa and a few, but it's not really "done". | [23:35] |
| rg | [16:36] -Notice- {from ChanServ} 1 nanotube +votsriRfAF [modified 1 year, 1 week, 2 days, 02:11:14 ago] | [23:35] |
| rg | [16:36] -Notice- {from ChanServ} 2 gribble +oO [modified 1 year, 1 week, 2 days, 02:09:47 ago] | [23:35] |
| rg | [16:36] -Notice- {from ChanServ} 3 kakobrekla +voOt [modified 1 year, 1 week, 1 day, 05:08:55 ago] | [23:35] |
| vragnaroda | I've even seen someone op up once. | [23:35] |
| mircea_popescu | ya, like two weeks ago | [23:36] |
| rg | i reactivated my facebook today | [23:36] |
| rg | funny that its ... exactly the same as when i quit | [23:36] |
| guruvan | no wai | [23:36] |
| mircea_popescu | this means you suck | [23:36] |
| rg | people posting their stupid wah-wah messages | [23:36] |
| guruvan | lol | [23:36] |
| * | guruvan will never reactivate that garbage | [23:36] |
| rg | sometimes i reactive once in a while | [23:37] |
| rg | to post that im still alive, etc | [23:37] |
| rg | cause i have no phone, other communication | [23:37] |
| vragnaroda | No one cares if you're still alive, rg. | [23:38] |
| rg | they do | [23:38] |
| rg | sometimes they show up here | [23:38] |
| vragnaroda | You have a fucking computer and are on like 24/7. | [23:39] |
| vragnaroda | Email, VOIP, etc. | [23:39] |
| rg | i dont have voip | [23:39] |
| rg | no one knows my email address | [23:39] |
| rg | i dont give that information out to in real life people | [23:39] |
| rg | if i want you to contact me, you know how | [23:39] |
| vragnaroda | Facebook. :p | [23:40] |
| rg | but that doesnt mean that people who i dont necessarily care enough about to give them my email | [23:40] |
| rg | dont care about me! | [23:40] |
| rg | like my family, well, what's left of it | [23:40] |
| mircea_popescu | vragnaroda are you trolling people bout being on 24/7 nao ?! | [23:42] |
| vragnaroda | I'm not trolling. It's true. | [23:42] |
| mircea_popescu | you know vragnaroda is how you say "on 24/7" in swahili ? | [23:42] |
| mircea_popescu | also in some dialects of korean. | [23:42] |
| vragnaroda | mircea_popescu: Well, those sounds just don't exist in Korean and I think perhaps not in Swahili either but I'm not sure. | [23:43] |
| pigeons | i still don't have facebook, but i started watching TV | [23:43] |
| mircea_popescu | nevertheless! | [23:43] |
| mircea_popescu | pigeons watching tv is like radiation therapy : if you're old the risks are significantly less | [23:44] |
| vragnaroda | 브락나로다 - beuragnaroda | [23:44] |
| vragnaroda | er, beuraknaroda | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu | petit beurre gnaroda. | [23:44] |
| vragnaroda | er, peuraknaroda, because it's word-initial | [23:44] |
| vragnaroda | fuck | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu | poor knaroda... | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu | after all this time still can't read gorean :D | [23:45] |
| rg | im looking at my friend requests | [23:46] |
| rg | theres a few cute girls | [23:46] |
| rg | i cannot for the life of me remember where/why i know them | [23:46] |
| rg | hmm it cant be... | [23:49] |
| rg | i met this girl one night at a friends house and she was cool, i thought she was ready to go get jammed | [23:49] |
| rg | then i met her bf | [23:49] |
| rg | and i really liked him, solid dude | [23:49] |
| * | rg submits this evidence to another friend for futher study | [23:49] |
| rg | 1 2 3 4 8 9 8 | [23:50] |
| rg | this is the way we celebrate | [23:50] |
| rg | no more monkies jumpin off the bed | [23:50] |
| rg | no no no no no | [23:50] |
| rg | are you with me? | [23:50] |
Category: Logs
