Forum logs for 15 Jan 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
Apocalyptic you wouldn't blend well in Miami yeah [00:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 30000 @ 0.001 = 30 BTC [+] [00:10]
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mike_c per request: [00:22]
mike_c http://www.btcalpha.com/feed/ [00:22]
ozbot Btc Alpha Blog [00:22]
benkay what are you driving that with, mike_c? [00:22]
Duffer1 subscribed [00:22]
mike_c mostly django [00:23]
mike_c thanks duffer [00:23]
benkay ditch it man [00:23]
mike_c for what? [00:23]
benkay django just lost bdfl [00:23]
Apocalyptic python rules [00:23]
mike_c again? [00:23]
benkay mhm. [00:23]
mike_c omg. what a pain. [00:24]
mike_c http://www.holovaty.com/writing/bdfls-retiring/ [00:24]
ozbot Adrian and Jacob retiring as Django BDFLs | Holovaty.com [00:24]
benkay speaking as someone who ekes out the odd food credit derping on django, shit has no future. [00:24]
benkay python has hella robust data science and robust outsider community, but man the web story is fn sad [00:25]
Apocalyptic I would use pyweb then [00:26]
Duffer1 soo unsubscribe? hehe [00:26]
mike_c hehe. nah. django is a great accelerator. lot of out-of-the-box stuff that works well. like that rss-generator. [00:27]
kakobrekla it fails in opera [00:28]
mike_c the feed? [00:28]
kakobrekla yea [00:28]
benkay i'd hazard that the bitcoin alpha biz req's are a little different from my deploy [00:28]
kakobrekla but hey rss sux [00:28]
kakobrekla no wonder the author commited suicide [00:29]
Duffer1 ouch [00:29]
pankkake Atom is better, yes [00:29]
kakobrekla json and gtfo [00:30]
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pankkake well, that json feeds would be nice. write a spec and patch software! [00:30]
pankkake -that [00:31]
kakobrekla i dont want to commit suicide down the lane. [00:31]
kakobrekla brb [00:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00084035 = 10.4203 BTC [-] {2} [00:57]
mike_c ;;later tell kakobrekla does this one work for you? http://www.btcalpha.com/feed/atom/ [00:58]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:58]
pankkake https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4515286#msg4515286 jimmothy must read #bitcoin-assets since he said options are gambling [00:59]
ozbot [Mpex.co] The biggest scam in bitcoin history? [00:59]
Apocalyptic mike_c, regarding your BitBet and MPex analysis on btcalpha, you claim these are "zero-asset company". I don't think this term is appropriate as they hold at the very least intangible assets such as goodwill resulting from their userbase and the reputation among other things [01:01]
pankkake well then is there such a thing as a zero asset company? [01:02]
mike_c i possibly made up that term as a differentiator from mp's "nonzero asset corporation" [01:02]
mike_c http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/ [01:02]
ozbot Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Pope [01:02]
mike_c ah, no, i didn't make it up [01:03]
mike_c "This accounting system is not intended for zero asset corporations" [01:03]
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mike_c i better term might be "zero tangible assets company", but that is a mouthful. [01:04]
Apocalyptic yeah was thinking about that exact formulation [01:04]
pankkake virtual assets company [01:05]
Apocalyptic well then is there such a thing as a zero asset company? // how would you define it ? [01:09]
mike_c it's defined as 0 book value. [01:09]
pankkake yeah… lol [01:09]
Apocalyptic according to http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071005223326AAxjjiN it's related to a holding company, weird [01:09]
diametric pankkake: this thread is amazing. i just started reading back through the posts on it. [01:09]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:09]
diametric people are really convinced mircea_popescu is a scam artist [01:09]
diametric its hilarious [01:10]
Apocalyptic "Usually a holding company is an asset-less company" what, I thought a holding company holds share of other companies, which are classified as assets [01:10]
pankkake that's not really bothering me. I wouldn't pay the 30 BTC fee myself, nor do I desire to hold MPOE [01:10]
pankkake but the complete refusal to understand what things are… [01:11]
pankkake I have my opinion, and I'm going to say dumb shit till the end [01:11]
pankkake no matter how stupid it makes me look [01:11]
pankkake and those guys defend scams to the death [01:11]
Apocalyptic pankkake, because in their mind there is no way they could ever be wrong [01:12]
pankkake so you don't want on mpex anyway [01:12]
pankkake +them [01:12]
pankkake but being wrong is how you learn! [01:12]
Apocalyptic once you admit it [01:13]
Apocalyptic and realise you actually are wrong [01:13]
pankkake then you are not wrong [01:13]
pankkake that's how I'm always right [01:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.02510002 = 0.5271 BTC [-] {4} [01:17]
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Duffer1 "Actually useful websites like crypto-trade or havelock as well as coloured coins will continue to gain traction as this shitty scheme dies out." [01:25]
Duffer1 professional grade trolling right there [01:25]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 161 @ 0.001 = 0.161 BTC [+] [01:30]
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mircea_popescu diametric it's a convenient conviction. [01:34]
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mircea_popescu Apocalyptic the "zero asset" thing is a term of art. a company that retains none of its income but distributes it all as dividends. [01:35]
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mircea_popescu it has a better risk profile for the bitcoin investor than the alternative (if you review the early history of btc scams, 2011s, you'll see most corps turned scams once the "ceo" confronted the problem of "we have cashflow. what to do with that cash ?". [01:36]
mircea_popescu somehow "distribute it" never comes to mind. a problem fiat shares, for that matter. (buffett has some great comments on the topic) [01:36]
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Namworld Comments? Is there readily availabe sources to read about that? [01:46]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 262 @ 0.003889 = 1.0189 BTC [+] [01:56]
dub http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/14/usa-medicare-pumps-idINL2N0KO02720140114 [01:56]
ozbot UPDATE 1-Penis pumps cost U.S. government millions, watchdog cries waste [01:56]
dub life imitates art [01:57]
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Duffer1 when uncle sam is paying there's always some asshole chargint them double [02:02]
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kakobrekla ;;later tell mike_c yes. [02:04]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8036 @ 0.00084313 = 6.7754 BTC [+] [02:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC [+] [02:05]
mircea_popescu Namworld about what you mean ? [02:06]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC [+] [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00084313 = 12.7313 BTC [+] [02:10]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2003 @ 0.001 = 2.003 BTC [+] [02:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6382 @ 0.00084251 = 5.3769 BTC [-] [02:28]
nubbins` hi [02:29]
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Namworld Buffett's comments on the topic [02:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00084021 = 9.9145 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6418 @ 0.00084021 = 5.3925 BTC [-] [02:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 36832 @ 0.001 = 36.832 BTC [+] [02:41]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1570 @ 0.0000902 = 0.1416 BTC [-] [02:49]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 40 @ 0.0499999 = 2 BTC [+] {2} [02:52]
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truffles any challengers? [02:57]
Namworld challengers? [02:58]
truffles chess [02:58]
Namworld I still want to complete that chess tournament [02:58]
Namworld I did the first game with BingoBoingo [02:58]
BingoBoingo Namworld: Well, you v truffles [02:58]
truffles doesnt have to be in tourny [02:58]
Namworld Well there's a tournament [02:59]
BingoBoingo Yeah. [02:59]
* truffles just needs a pickmeuper [02:59]
Namworld Ok, if you play against 2 other players too in the tournament [02:59]
truffles boingo if u hit "go live" at chess.com it lets timer [03:00]
BingoBoingo lats timer? [03:01]
mircea_popescu Namworld well now i don't know, i read the stuff in a paper book a while ago. lettuce see [03:01]
Namworld ah, paper book. Too bad. [03:01]
truffles ya, like 5 min, 10 etc [03:01]
Namworld We can play live right here in this channel [03:02]
Namworld Just announce moves. Any board can do. [03:02]
truffles who goes 1st [03:03]
Namworld gribble can toss a coin [03:03]
nubbins` ^^^ [03:03]
Namworld Choose side [03:03]
nubbins` ;;flip [03:03]
gribble Error: "flip" is not a valid command. [03:03]
nubbins` i mean [03:03]
nubbins` ;;coin [03:03]
truffles heads [03:03]
gribble tails [03:03]
truffles boo [03:03]
nubbins` heh [03:03]
Namworld Choose sidenubbins doesn't count [03:03]
nubbins` ;D [03:04]
truffles heads [03:04]
nubbins` <--interloper [03:04]
Namworld ;;coin [03:04]
gribble tails [03:04]
truffles dam coin! [03:04]
nubbins` sometimes i suspect ;;coin is just ;;echo tails [03:04]
Duffer1 coin hates you bro [03:04]
BingoBoingo ;;coin [03:04]
gribble heads [03:04]
Namworld You get to choose the side you want [03:04]
truffles srsly [03:04]
nubbins` so i sold a 0.5btc casascius coin for 6btc earlier today [03:04]
Namworld Erhm I mean I get to [03:04]
truffles me? [03:04]
truffles go [03:04]
Namworld I take blacks [03:05]
Namworld You start your move [03:05]
Duffer1 grats nubbs [03:05]
Namworld I use this: http://www.caissa.com/chess-tools/pgn-editor.php [03:05]
Namworld Make some nice gifs of the games [03:05]
nubbins` thanks, feels good. first one i've sold in a few months [03:05]
truffles e4 [03:05]
nubbins` first of that type, anyway [03:05]
truffles so uh i hope there isnt intermission in this [03:06]
Namworld e5 [03:06]
nubbins` you know what they say about hope [03:06]
nubbins` ;;google you know what they say about hope [03:06]
gribble You know what they say about hope. It breeds eternal ... - Goodreads: ; Quote by Sara Shepard: You know what they say about hope. It ...: ; Pretty Little Liars - Wikiquote: (1 more message) [03:06]
truffles Bb5 [03:07]
nubbins` so close, just a word short [03:07]
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truffles this pace is a bit.. [03:07]
truffles slow [03:07]
KRS1 wut [03:08]
Namworld a6 [03:08]
truffles im sick n tired of these slow movers [03:08]
Namworld I'll try to speed up [03:08]
truffles a4 [03:08]
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Namworld axb5? [03:09]
dub #bitcoin-assets-chessnerds? [03:09]
truffles u said a6? [03:10]
nubbins` jeez, don't be so demanding [03:10]
truffles so im on a4 [03:10]
nubbins` glad i didn't play with you ;( [03:10]
truffles cant take my bishop yet? [03:11]
truffles oh i shouldve typed Ba4? [03:11]
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BingoBoingo truff, yeah anything but a pawn needs further specification [03:11]
Namworld Yeh moved your bishop, Bb5. Do you even have a board in front of you? [03:12]
nubbins` heh. [03:12]
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truffles so what is the ruling on that [03:12]
nubbins` the ruling is that you guys roll back a few moves and get your shit together [03:12]
nubbins` also [03:12]
nubbins` whoever is white should be numbering their moves [03:12]
Namworld Start again with http://www.caissa.com/chess-tools/pgn-editor.php to track moves [03:13]
nubbins` e.g.: 1. e4 [03:13]
Namworld The moves will be accurate and the same for each [03:13]
truffles sigh [03:13]
nubbins` 2. Bb5, etc [03:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0248 = 0.248 BTC [-] {2} [03:13]
nubbins` makes it a lot less confusing [03:13]
truffles typing things by hand so [03:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 215 @ 0.00265948 = 0.5718 BTC [-] {10} [03:13]
truffles begin again? [03:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 113 @ 0.00244437 = 0.2762 BTC [-] {5} [03:14]
Namworld Let's register on caissa and play live chess [03:14]
truffles :D [03:15]
truffles no chess.com acct? [03:15]
Namworld No. Do they provide replays of games? [03:15]
BingoBoingo Namworld chess.com lets you download pgn's so yeah [03:15]
truffles Boingo provided pastebin of our last game so? [03:15]
Namworld BingoBoingo already played you? [03:16]
truffles ya 1-2 [03:16]
truffles r u registering or ? [03:17]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 935 @ 0.001 = 0.935 BTC [+] [03:17]
Namworld I'm registering on chess.com [03:17]
truffles yay [03:18]
Namworld How do we play against each other now? [03:18]
truffles invite by alias or email [03:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00084253 = 19.2097 BTC [+] [03:19]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1213 @ 0.001 = 1.213 BTC [+] [03:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14982 @ 0.00084231 = 12.6195 BTC [-] {2} [03:25]
truffles Namworld still thinks this chess.com game will be valid :D [03:26]
BingoBoingo truffles well, it would be if you post some PGN [03:26]
truffles i c [03:26]
BingoBoingo I believe as long as there is someting verifiable it should be good. [03:27]
truffles gonna try not to make noob mistake for future challengers [03:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04999998 = 0.25 BTC [+] [03:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10386 @ 0.00084101 = 8.7347 BTC [-] {2} [03:38]
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Apocalyptic who's got a chess.com account ? [03:45]
truffles every1 [03:45]
Apocalyptic i feel like playing chess tonight [03:45]
truffles wanna play timed ? [03:45]
truffles obv not this moment [03:46]
Apocalyptic yeah, let me remember my password first [03:46]
truffles either namworld is thinking or disconnected :( [03:46]
Apocalyptic timed != live ? [03:46]
truffles well u have to go to live chess to get the timers [03:47]
Apocalyptic what's your nick truffles ? [03:47]
truffles id like 10min, no increment [03:47]
truffles trufss [03:47]
Apocalyptic seems good [03:47]
truffles might as well since he's not here [03:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00084396 = 23.7997 BTC [+] [03:48]
Apocalyptic Albania really ? [03:49]
truffles lol [03:49]
truffles u sent invite? [03:49]
truffles havent figured out this yet [03:50]
dub elbownia [03:50]
Apocalyptic yep [03:50]
Apocalyptic hum I actually have some decent ratings there [03:52]
truffles how do u add time to it [03:52]
Apocalyptic go to live chess [03:53]
truffles ya i always get randoms! [03:53]
Apocalyptic you should see me on the friend tab [03:53]
truffles nope, u start it [03:53]
Apocalyptic http://live.chess.com/ [03:54]
ozbot Play Chess Online - Free Chess Games at Chess.com [03:54]
Apocalyptic I could if you were there [03:54]
truffles refresh [03:54]
truffles ok [03:55]
truffles dangit! [03:58]
truffles u missed that 1 :D [03:58]
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Apocalyptic blunder :) [04:00]
truffles no2 [04:00]
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Namworld I'm back truffles, sorry [04:01]
truffles 2 mins [04:02]
decimation Buffet is a famous dividend hater. Partially because of dividend tax treatment in the US, and partially because he believes in reinvesting in the company or buying back shares. [04:02]
decimation Most fiat companies use buybacks to pump up the stock price as ceo's sell their own shares [04:03]
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Apocalyptic ^ [04:03]
Apocalyptic dat fork truffles [04:04]
truffles ugh [04:04]
Apocalyptic heh, good game [04:04]
truffles rematch soon [04:04]
Apocalyptic now what did I miss ? [04:04]
Apocalyptic dangit! [04:04]
Apocalyptic u missed that 1 :D [04:04]
truffles queen x knight [04:04]
Apocalyptic what move # ? [04:04]
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truffles around 10 [04:05]
Apocalyptic oh 9. [04:05]
Apocalyptic yeah... I was blind [04:05]
Apocalyptic anyway since I took the knight i just had to trade to ensure a clear win [04:05]
truffles sigh i forgot what i was doing with namworld now lol [04:05]
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Apocalyptic is he any good ? [04:06]
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Apocalyptic oh no I see [04:06]
truffles dunno yea [04:06]
Apocalyptic it was a bait truffles [04:06]
truffles yet [04:06]
truffles shhh [04:06]
Apocalyptic if I took the night you would win my queen [04:06]
Apocalyptic after Re1 my queen would have been pinned [04:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 314 @ 0.00084396 = 0.265 BTC [+] [04:07]
truffles u think so? [04:07]
Apocalyptic i'm certain [04:08]
Apocalyptic see for yourself, but it's a typical tactic called pin [04:08]
truffles uh huh [04:08]
Apocalyptic my queen cannot move before it would expose my king to direct check from your rook [04:08]
truffles not visualizing that game [04:09]
Apocalyptic my only sane move is to take the rook, and I lose the queen at the next move [04:09]
Apocalyptic i'm talking about our game [04:09]
truffles im in a bad position already with namworld! [04:09]
Apocalyptic Namworld, what's your chess.com nick ? [04:09]
truffles click my name u can see the match [04:10]
Apocalyptic that's the thing, i can't [04:10]
Apocalyptic since it's not a live one [04:10]
Apocalyptic Namworld is taking ages... [04:18]
truffles standard [04:18]
Apocalyptic i recreated a game [04:20]
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mircea_popescu .d [04:24]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1693 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.7893% in 10d 0h 14m 13s [04:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02499998 = 0.3 BTC [+] {2} [04:30]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 7370 @ 0.001 = 7.37 BTC [+] [04:38]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.532 BTC [+] [04:44]
truffles gg [04:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 531 @ 0.001 = 0.531 BTC [+] [04:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6617 @ 0.00084042 = 5.5611 BTC [-] [04:47]
Namworld I have conceded [04:47]
Namworld I've played awfully [04:47]
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Namworld I shall be away for a while [04:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 41 @ 0.00370463 = 0.1519 BTC [-] {2} [04:55]
decimation Assuming btc continues to become more valuable at its current rate, what capital activity will return more future value than simply holding Bitcoin? [04:58]
decimation This seems to be the central question of bitcoin finance. [04:58]
Apocalyptic indeed decimation [04:59]
Duffer1 gambling and drugs [04:59]
decimation well, mining and gambling in bitcoin come to mind [04:59]
Apocalyptic and so far i think it's holding bitcoin that is most profitable [04:59]
decimation as in, mining bitcoin [04:59]
Duffer1 mining isn't profitable [04:59]
decimation Well, it depends on your assumptions [04:59]
Duffer1 maybe if you owned stock in the manufacturer you'd do well [05:00]
decimation If btc surprises to the upside again, then mining might be retrospectively valuable [05:00]
decimation only if the manufacturer's stock were denominated in bitcoin [05:00]
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Duffer1 but not as valuable as just buying btc and holding for that same perior [05:00]
Duffer1 period [05:00]
decimation that's likely the case, I agree. [05:01]
nubbins` having a brutal time installing ubuntu on this netbook [05:01]
decimation If you can purchase a miner in bitcoin though, that counts as a bitcoin investment [05:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC [+] [05:02]
decimation if you don't wish to buy with fiat for whatever reason [05:02]
nubbins` technically purchasing a miner with btc is a bitcoin divestment [05:02]
decimation true [05:02]
nubbins` not only technically but practically, too [05:02]
decimation it's really a bet that the difficulty won't go up as much as everyone hopes/fears in the future [05:03]
decimation a long bet [05:03]
Duffer1 btc -> fiat -> vps mine shitaltcoin#1361235 -> dump on sucker on craptsy = more btc than you started with [05:04]
decimation heh [05:04]
decimation well scams are always profitable [05:04]
decimation as long as you can find a greater fool [05:04]
truffles http://pastebin.com/embed_iframe.php?i=q9vr8LT4 the match [05:04]
nubbins` risk being that you're the greatest fool [05:04]
decimation indeed [05:05]
nubbins` someone's going to be left holding millions of dogecoin [05:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.001 = 0.2 BTC [+] [05:05]
decimation buying altcoin is like investing in silver [05:05]
decimation anyone with common sense knows it's going to crash and burn [05:05]
Duffer1 hehehe [05:05]
BingoBoingo Well yeah, digging new silver is relatively cheap [05:05]
decimation but you might convince a greater fool to buy your silver and make a profit [05:06]
decimation right that's my point [05:06]
Duffer1 titanium ftw [05:06]
Duffer1 ^ not real advice [05:06]
nubbins` cim/cif ftw [05:07]
nubbins` ^ real advice [05:07]
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mircea_popescu speaking of the entire silver thing, what happened to pietilla, goat and usagi ? [05:07]
mircea_popescu the three silversketeers [05:07]
BingoBoingo First two still seem to be on the forum... who knows about Usagi anymore. [05:07]
Duffer1 afaik goat's still working on his silver ltc project [05:07]
nubbins` goat changed his name on the forums [05:08]
nubbins` it's now uh, one sec [05:08]
nubbins` "[Default Trust] is Tyrannically Centralized! (goat)" [05:08]
mircea_popescu lol [05:09]
BingoBoingo Dunno what people are up in arms about. Default Trust is just a user account on the forums that can be given negative trust [05:10]
nubbins` Duffer1: i've got some lovely certificates designed for those [05:10]
Duffer1 oh cool i didn't know you were involved [05:10]
nubbins` nah, default trust is a list of people that, by default, all new users "trust" [05:10]
nubbins` i.e. their feedback appears in the "trusted feedback" section of a user's trust page [05:11]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: Well, they still implement the list by making it a user account and it can be given negative feeback just like any other. [05:11]
nubbins` ah, interesting [05:11]
nubbins` anyway, huge uproar about it all [05:12]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: See here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=122551 [05:12]
nubbins` pretty silly idea [05:13]
mircea_popescu nubbins` yeah, huge uproar in the sense that scammors are really butthurt there's some stuff they can't readily manipulate. [05:13]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416304.0 [05:16]
ozbot Anyone still waiting for an Avalon Batch 3 refund? [05:16]
mircea_popescu the thick plot that keeps thickening [05:16]
nubbins` heh, ;( [05:17]
nubbins` this image popped up in one of the old avalon threads, i lel'd heavily [05:17]
nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/gNguKJd.jpg [05:17]
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BingoBoingo So all of Yifu's Avalon coins would get flagged dirty in his coinvalidator anyways [05:18]
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mircea_popescu lol [05:18]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, "Hi I am a 25 years old Italian boy. I entered the bitcoin about one year ago, so I am not so noob even if not expert." [05:18]
nubbins` i entered the bitcoin [05:18]
nubbins` it protested some, but it's a man's world [05:18]
jborkl I blew a 1 and a 0 as I enteredbit [05:18]
mircea_popescu entered the bitcoin [05:19]
mircea_popescu i think ima use this line [05:19]
nubbins` when did you enter the bitcoin? [05:19]
mircea_popescu "baby spread wide, i'ma enter your bitcoin" [05:19]
mircea_popescu your thebitcoin [05:19]
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nubbins` he entered the bitcoin forcefully and without mercy [05:20]
asciilifeform anybody wonder how many people purchase miners just to launder coin? [05:21]
Duffer1 interesting idea [05:21]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Well Good ole Trendon did that [05:22]
asciilifeform miner shits out the cleanest possible coin, so in principle if one's coin is 'dirty' enough, a miner might seem like a good investment. [05:22]
nubbins` 50 cents on the dollar if you're lucky [05:22]
asciilifeform a penny to the dollar is still better than the gasenwagen. [05:23]
nubbins` true [05:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is what "the community" didn't belive pirate's hash exchange was for. [05:23]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: What you do is start a pool and pay out better than the other pools [05:23]
truffles nubbins ure next [05:23]
truffles ? [05:23]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: No need to own the hardware yourself. [05:23]
decimation what if mining guilds are doing this today? [05:24]
asciilifeform as i understand, not too many people are presently concerned with dirt [05:24]
asciilifeform other than the authors of the few most egregious heists [05:25]
nubbins` ^ [05:25]
asciilifeform does anyone give a damn about coin history in those famous bars where people trade suitcases of benjamins for btc? [05:25]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=413241.msg4506680#msg4506680 << more best friends for pankkake [05:26]
ozbot IcyHash Pool/Spork985 refusing to produce or explain multiple missing coins [05:26]
mircea_popescu "o you sent fiddy altcoins extra ? allow me to edit all the previous scamscreams!" [05:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform all coins are and will remain equal. this is the concept known as fungibility. [05:27]
Duffer1 wtf is a clockcoin? [05:27]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 yes. [05:27]
decimation is there a pool that publishes its accounting? [05:27]
mircea_popescu "It sounds like you need a few slaps in the face to get in touch with society." [05:27]
asciilifeform fungibility in this case is an ideal, not the actual reality on the ground (atoms of Au are fungible, btc aren't - at least, as presently implemented) [05:27]
mircea_popescu decimation p2pool used to i think ? [05:28]
nubbins` the bars i frequent are not the sort of places where one would bring a suitcase full of benjamins [05:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform bitcoins are more fungible than gold ever was, in practice. [05:28]
nubbins` maybe i'm frequenting the wrong bars ;( [05:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 485 @ 0.001 = 0.485 BTC [+] [05:28]
mircea_popescu all those series on bars and so forth, they're kinda there to limit fungibility [05:28]
asciilifeform i always thought it was a practical measure, to let people skimp on assaying [05:29]
mircea_popescu this actually works as an argument. bitcoin needs no assaying, which makes it more fungible than something that does. [05:30]
asciilifeform this much is true [05:31]
asciilifeform but btc, unlike atoms of Au, has a public history, a fact that users ignore at their peril [05:31]
decimation if it's discovered that your wallet directly traded with a known thief's wallet - you might have problems one day [05:31]
BingoBoingo Well, if your gold was exposed to neutron radiation it may endanger your health one day [05:32]
asciilifeform 'the magic gold glowed blue in the water.' [05:32]
mircea_popescu explain this "you might have problems one day" [05:33]
mircea_popescu if you spend time in a smoky room "you might have problems one day" [05:33]
asciilifeform Der Ring des Nibelungen [05:34]
asciilifeform (re: magic gold) [05:34]
kakobrekla http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-14/wells-fargo-americas-largest-bank-market-cap-pushing-offer-bitcoin-services [05:34]
ozbot Wells Fargo, America's Largest Bank By Market Cap, Pushing To Offer Bitcoin Services | Zero Hedge [05:34]
nubbins` hm [05:34]
mircea_popescu for that matter, discovering that your wallet directly traded with anyone is an exercise in impossibility. [05:34]
asciilifeform this concern is more in line with 'spend enough time in a smoky enough room, and you'll choke' [05:35]
mircea_popescu i tell you i don't see it. [05:35]
mircea_popescu run me through a scenario where you actually identify such a "direct trade" [05:35]
asciilifeform well, the trivial case: [05:35]
nubbins` feds sieze wallet of Derp Pirate Roy [05:36]
nubbins` last tx was 10k bitcoin to 1blahblah [05:36]
asciilifeform 1) 0day 2) clean out 'mtgox' or the like 3) same coin is deposited in exchange acct. with truename next day 4) gasenwagen [05:36]
nubbins` google search turns up whatever [05:36]
mircea_popescu so what if google search turns up whatever ? i can make google show up a shaved baboon when you google for nubbins [05:36]
mircea_popescu what of it ? [05:36]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC [+] [05:36]
Duffer1 do it [05:36]
asciilifeform man with at least the brain of a slug would attempt to clean the booty somehow [05:37]
nubbins` heh [05:37]
nubbins` that would be fun [05:37]
nubbins` anyway, merge my thought with alf's [05:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's go through this. mtgox wallet is emptied to address A. [05:37]
mircea_popescu address A sends back to mtgox for credit ? the same bitcoin ? [05:37]
asciilifeform well, let's have it be spent at 'coin bullion' (?) or the like. [05:38]
nubbins` let's buy trilema credits with it [05:38]
asciilifeform or buy a shipping container of whatever strange. [05:38]
mircea_popescu and so i have to judge this situation where you say coinbullion googled your name and used it to cover their theft [05:38]
mircea_popescu and coinbullion claims you're a haxxor ? [05:38]
mircea_popescu i'm throwing it out, it can't be resolved. [05:38]
asciilifeform traditional court might throw out the accusation. but courts are not the only mechanism for Having Problems. [05:39]
asciilifeform the fellow who got pwned might have his own ideas about justice [05:39]
mircea_popescu in which case we're back to your problems being widely abusable power, which is not a bitcoin thing. [05:39]
mircea_popescu you could get fucked by some guy who thinks he saw you fucking his wife. [05:39]
mircea_popescu or whatever. [05:40]
asciilifeform it is entirely true, and a good point, that the blockchain can be used by a skilled conniver to point blame at some random third party. [05:40]
BingoBoingo This sounds like the sort of case where BitBet could replace the court as a solution and to the laundering. Step one. Take positions on a Difficulty bet paying out to addresses with publicized different owners as well as addresses with unknown owners. [05:41]
mircea_popescu moreover, there's no good reason to presume this is not happening at any point, nor particularly easy or even possible to prove so. [05:41]
mircea_popescu bitcoin payments happen at order, without acceptance. [05:42]
decimation what if one were to use a deterministic wallet address derived from retina features for instance [05:42]
asciilifeform i vaguely recall the loot from various famous heists sitting quietly, never spent [05:42]
asciilifeform why would that be? [05:42]
mircea_popescu why not ? [05:42]
mircea_popescu most btc sits quietly, never spent. [05:42]
BingoBoingo decimation: That seems like a wallet I wouldn't want to use. [05:42]
mircea_popescu it's what it likes to do. fiat runs and bitcoin rests. [05:42]
mircea_popescu decimation even so, once an address is out it is public. [05:43]
asciilifeform decimation: the problem with biometric-anything is that you shout your 'password' every time you touch something (or, in this case, look in an eyehole) [05:43]
mircea_popescu well... for a pulse anyway [05:44]
decimation indeed, it would be idiotic. But it would be difficult to deny that it's not your wallet [05:44]
mircea_popescu but it would be stil lequally easy to deny that it's your transaction. [05:44]
decimation true [05:44]
mircea_popescu i can send you a bitcoin whether you wish to accept it or not, and whether you know or not [05:44]
asciilifeform it's yours and the first person who sets you up to look through an eyehole. [05:44]
mircea_popescu this was the nail that sunk the rota, practically. [05:44]
mircea_popescu as citizen-judges didn't quite grok the abyss. [05:45]
asciilifeform i recall some joker sent out a mountain of coin, a few satoshi at a time, to see where it gets consolidated [05:45]
nubbins` asciilifeform: that's still happening [05:45]
nubbins` one sec [05:45]
nubbins` https://blockchain.info/address/1FFirnLctcZxVx5otnLNZ4dDGUkMBM4vNr [05:46]
ozbot Bitcoin Address 1FFirnLctcZxVx5otnLNZ4dDGUkMBM4vNr [05:46]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=318830.0 this is the funniest shit ever [05:46]
ozbot Cease and Desist Letter to ASICSRUS [05:46]
nubbins` well, not sure of the motivation [05:46]
nubbins` but ~37btc dished out so far [05:47]
nubbins` in 0.001btc increments [05:47]
asciilifeform there's another answer to this [05:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00084042 = 4.034 BTC [-] [05:48]
asciilifeform (other than 'consolidation bait') [05:48]
mircea_popescu http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not-connected-to-internet.html?hp&_r=0 [05:48]
asciilifeform data storage! [05:48]
mircea_popescu more from the "nsa killed my auntie" club [05:48]
nubbins` data storage? [05:48]
asciilifeform yes. [05:48]
asciilifeform the addrs encode bits. [05:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 332 @ 0.001 = 0.332 BTC [+] [05:49]
asciilifeform these may well be commands for a chumpnet. [05:49]
benkay why not push coins across mpex? [05:49]
nubbins` maybe. a few of the sends ended up on casascius rounds [05:49]
asciilifeform the addrs are probably plucked out of the blockchain at random. [05:49]
asciilifeform but with a useful pattern [05:50]
nubbins` nod, search for funded addresses [05:50]
mircea_popescu wouldn't the addrs actually be used as payload then ? [05:50]
asciilifeform say, lower 8 bits encode payload fragment. [05:50]
mircea_popescu why not use the whole thing ? [05:50]
asciilifeform because then the tx can be flagged as weird [05:50]
asciilifeform and, say, blockchain.info might decide to hide it [05:50]
mircea_popescu wait what ?! [05:51]
mircea_popescu how did you figure that ? [05:51]
asciilifeform who wouldn't love to see the server log for https://blockchain.info/address/1HrMpG9JZ71gzXHPdyo2dwcExhKRGtBjQg# ? [05:51]
mircea_popescu obviously you use a valid address [05:51]
mircea_popescu that's not much restriction. [05:51]
asciilifeform the tx needs to be algorithmically indistinguishable from a 'civilian' tx [05:51]
asciilifeform ideally the valid addr belongs to someone else [05:51]
mircea_popescu yes, which only means it has the checksum and starts with 1 [05:51]
asciilifeform someone with a perfectly 'organic' usage pattern. [05:51]
mircea_popescu eh get out, new addresses get used all the time [05:51]
mircea_popescu there's no benefit in using some "organic" address. nor does this actually exist. [05:52]
asciilifeform sure. but the idea is, let's say AV firm goes to blockchain.info and says [05:52]
asciilifeform 'don't show these. this is a chumpnet artist' [05:52]
asciilifeform what's the best way to make them say 'goto hell' ? [05:52]
mircea_popescu it can say whatever the hell it wants. every time you make a payment a fraction is sent to a wholly new address [05:52]
asciilifeform answer: use civilian addrs. [05:52]
mircea_popescu completely indistinguishable from any address this guy'd make [05:52]
asciilifeform this is also a handy way to store bits in the chain that will never, under any conceivable scheme, get 'pruned.' [05:53]
mircea_popescu old txn past the checkpoint may get pruned eventually. [05:53]
asciilifeform dollars to doughnuts, the receiver for these broadcasts doesn't implement a full node [05:54]
mircea_popescu you know how checkpoints work ? [05:54]
asciilifeform it almost certainly fetches from blockchain.info or the like. [05:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 206 @ 0.001 = 0.206 BTC [+] {2} [05:57]
asciilifeform yes, i know about checkpoint; hence the need to rebroadcast periodically. [05:57]
asciilifeform this is just one possible explanation, of course [05:57]
asciilifeform far more likely is the traditional hypothesis (bait), or a simple laundry. [05:58]
nubbins` silly laundry sending coins to other people's addresses [05:58]
KRS1 .bait [05:58]
asciilifeform like the proverbial kid who sneaks into the school computer to change grades [05:58]
ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m82tlgsiWG1qdoxp5o1_1280.jpg [05:58]
asciilifeform he damn well knows he needs to change many, not only his own [05:59]
nubbins` fair [05:59]
decimation heh. If someone were to steal all the btc from mtgox and distribute them to the last 1,000 addresses that mined at least one block would be considered a hero [06:00]
asciilifeform 'robin hood' is good fun so long as you're on the correct end of him, yes [06:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00084075 = 22.448 BTC [+] [06:01]
mircea_popescu the moral here is that willy-nilly bitcoin will bring about deep and far reaching changes in human society, culture and mentality. [06:01]
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mircea_popescu what property means and what remedies for theft are will change. [06:01]
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asciilifeform 'the cold equations.' [06:02]
mircea_popescu much in the way what tax means and what taxation entails will change, [06:02]
decimation indeed [06:02]
mircea_popescu much in the way what law and the courts are will change and so on [06:02]
decimation how can a government promise to pay more bitcoin than exists for instance? [06:02]
asciilifeform seems almost certain that the days in which you needed to corner somebody in the flesh to collect a tax, will come back. [06:02]
mircea_popescu decimation that's a subset of "how can public companies be worth more than 20mn btc. they can." [06:02]
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decimation true [06:04]
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mircea_popescu just as long as the promise isn't to pay in specie and in one go, it still can stand. [06:04]
decimation but the lack of an implicit printing press will surely encourage the investors to be more skeptical [06:04]
decimation implicit promise to bailout I mean [06:04]
mircea_popescu even in practice, in the 1800s multiple governments owed more gold than was actually available in the world at the time [06:04]
decimation well that didn't work out well for germany [06:05]
mircea_popescu this didn't always and didn't necessarily result in a default [06:05]
decimation or the UK [06:05]
mircea_popescu tho it oft resulted in wars [06:05]
asciilifeform wouldn't that be more like owing 'MAX_INT' gold? [06:05]
nubbins` decimation: germany is doing just fine ;p [06:05]
decimation well, it also caused the US to abandon gold [06:05]
asciilifeform sort of how the average american owes MAX_INT dollars to somebody or other. [06:05]
decimation although it was mostly fiction anyway at that point [06:05]
mircea_popescu that wasn't in the 1800s [06:06]
decimation yeah I'm thinking WWI [06:06]
mircea_popescu in the 1800s the us was a bit player, fighting with mexico over the silver export to china [06:06]
mircea_popescu sort of like today's ukraine or what have you. [06:06]
nubbins` old women holding mirrors up to riot police [06:07]
decimation indeed, lincoln started the fiat craze to fund his religious war [06:07]
mircea_popescu o, you figure cause southerners weren't protestant enough ? [06:07]
mircea_popescu or not the proper type of dour ? [06:08]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Southerners weren't poor enough [06:08]
asciilifeform decimation: there was precedent. plenty of u.s. localities had local crackpot fiats [06:08]
decimation yeah, banking back then was pretty much like trusting bitcointalk scammers with your money [06:08]
asciilifeform where banking today is a little more like trusting mtgox with it [06:09]
nubbins` heh [06:09]
nubbins` http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_dollar [06:10]
ozbot Newfoundland dollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [06:10]
nubbins` fun fact, my grandmother was born a british citizen, never left her hometown, and died a canadian citizen [06:10]
KRS1 When can I start trading pokemon and magic: the gathering on MtGox [06:10]
decimation ascii - solzhenitzyn said that they were meat wagons (in the end of The First Circle) [06:10]
decimation gasenwagon must come from East Germany or something [06:11]
mircea_popescu nubbins` that's nothing, plenty of old women around the balkans shed 5-6-7 nationalities [06:11]
nubbins` ha, too true [06:11]
nubbins` nationalities that still exist tho? [06:11]
asciilifeform gasenwagen - russian corruption of 'gaswagen' - in actuality, merely a truck powered by coal gas (wood stove bolted on the back, pumps out CO, which you can just barely run an engine on.) [06:12]
decimation lol [06:12]
asciilifeform these trucks are often confused, by amateur historians, for the famous mobile gassers [06:12]
mircea_popescu nubbins` sort-of, not rly [06:12]
mircea_popescu austro hungarian, yugoslavian etc [06:12]
nubbins` ah, nod [06:12]
asciilifeform http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-V00670A,_Berlin,_Auto_mit_Holzgasantrieb.jpg [06:13]
mircea_popescu as there's only 20 years between the two wars, and plenty of locales changed hands multiple times... it happens. [06:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00084107 = 10.0928 BTC [+] {2} [06:13]
decimation anyway, to mp's original point about change, I think there is a fundamental truth about human nature. Humans require suffering to calibrate their joy [06:13]
asciilifeform i'm told there are a few in finland that still work. perhaps reptilia owns one [06:13]
mircea_popescu dude this guy... is he courting me personally ? [06:13]
nubbins` the referendum to join canada was passed with a scant 52% voting yes [06:14]
mircea_popescu first with the lincoln, now with the spankings... [06:14]
decimation no, what I mean is that the fiat regime allows the delusion of infinite wealth [06:14]
decimation humanity gets dumb, fat, lazy [06:14]
mircea_popescu decimation yeah well, i've been saying this to everyone's exhaustion for the past coupla years or w/e. [06:15]
mircea_popescu we just agree too much. [06:15]
decimation heh [06:15]
Duffer1 forced participation in welfare systems does not equal lethargy [06:15]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 but what's forced mean ? [06:16]
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Duffer1 unable to sustain without [06:16]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 364 @ 0.001 = 0.364 BTC [+] [06:16]
mircea_popescu that's not forced, that's mere convenience. [06:16]
Duffer1 it's survival [06:17]
mircea_popescu well that it may be, sure. [06:17]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 10000 @ 0.001 = 10 BTC [+] [06:20]
mircea_popescu problem with this approach is that if you follow it you'll end up filing rape charges against the only woman that'd have you [06:20]
mircea_popescu because clearly she forced you through your lack of other options. [06:20]
Duffer1 :P [06:21]
decimation for instance, the gasenwagen picture supplied by ascii. It's amazing to me that someone with the mechanical competence to assemble such a contraption would be unable to buy a few gallons of fuel [06:21]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [06:21]
mircea_popescu decimation there's no requirement that fuel availability and mechanical complexity relate in any particular proportion. [06:21]
mircea_popescu most populations were unable to acquire a few pounds of iron, [06:22]
mircea_popescu notwithstanding their astounding other accomplishments, [06:22]
mircea_popescu and so got trampled underfoot by those with better meteoric exposure. [06:22]
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mircea_popescu hence the famous "the iron! oh my god the iron!" [06:22]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.001 = 0.25 BTC [+] [06:24]
asciilifeform 'tiger' tank is even more complex. [06:26]
asciilifeform what of it. [06:26]
decimation well, like bitcoin, the Werhmacht's fuel supply was theirs to lose [06:30]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [13:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [13:30]
* [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp [13:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21750 @ 0.00084183 = 18.3098 BTC [+] {2} [13:30]
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mircea_popescu .d [13:34]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1628 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.1951% in 9d 13h 58m 51s [13:34]
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pankkake http://cointerra.com/engineering-updates-terraminer-iv-hashing-live/ [14:01]
pankkake https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307042.msg4524561#msg4524561 lol [14:05]
ozbot [PicoStocks] CoinTerra [coint] [14:05]
mircea_popescu wait wut ?! [14:06]
mircea_popescu ahaha more of the "making roi hand over fist" [14:07]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 13 @ 0.03978518 = 0.5172 BTC [-] {4} [14:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.03978534 = 0.1989 BTC [+] [14:11]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.03978534 = 0.1989 BTC [+] [14:14]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.03978534 = 0.1989 BTC [+] [14:15]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.03978667 = 0.3979 BTC [+] {4} [14:16]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 344 @ 0.0029 = 0.9976 BTC [+] [14:16]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG.F2] 1 @ 0.79989995 BTC [+] [14:24]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.03979999 = 0.199 BTC [+] [14:26]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 106 @ 0.025 = 2.65 BTC [-] {4} [14:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.000842 = 12.5037 BTC [+] [14:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24356 @ 0.00084034 = 20.4673 BTC [-] {3} [14:39]
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mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging/ [14:49]
ozbot A conceit, or the importance of blogging pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [14:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 299 @ 0.00289365 = 0.8652 BTC [-] {3} [14:51]
truffles blogging is "important" nowadays huh :D [14:52]
mircea_popescu definitely. [14:53]
KRS1 i used to think otherwise [14:54]
truffles what has caused the change of view? [14:54]
KRS1 lol schmucks [14:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 347 @ 0.0422545 = 14.6623 BTC [+] {23} [14:56]
truffles ? [14:56]
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KRS1 for me, personally, it has been the realization that people need more meat and potatoes so to speak than just a flashy website that just gets the point across..it provides a substantial base of information that compliments and validates your site or your image. [14:57]
mircea_popescu definitely. [14:57]
truffles 0.0 [14:58]
VanCleef its pretty homoerotic tho [14:58]
VanCleef twitter is more important than a blog [14:58]
KRS1 In many cases it gives the visitor a doggie bag or a sample of knowledge or data that they may be able to use. Sometimes closing the deal on sales or further investment of your idea or product. [14:59]
KRS1 I see twitter as a different type of tool than a blog, not more or less important. [15:00]
truffles u think ppl have time to read wall of text [15:00]
truffles have time = want [15:00]
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KRS1 They make time to read what they are looking for, as long as its delivered to them in a way they can digest it, I suppose. For instance, I read the Wall St. Journal primarily for the Marktplace section. I get and enjoy information from other parts as a side benefit. [15:02]
truffles ure a nerd though [15:02]
KRS1 But I go hard, I drink with friends in bars, strip clubs and I enjoy street and drag racing. [15:03]
KRS1 Whats it matter [15:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 6091 @ 0.001 = 6.091 BTC [+] [15:03]
truffles just trying to say u put in more effort than most ppl prob [15:04]
KRS1 maybe..but idk today is a new day and age..ppl suprise me from time to time. [15:04]
truffles sure [15:05]
KRS1 its going to be cold here in south florida next few days..might see 30 degrees, highs of only 60's 70 degrees. brrr.. [15:05]
truffles oh thats sooo cold [15:06]
mircea_popescu truffles what's with this arrogand, offensive anti-intellectualism ? [15:06]
mircea_popescu people enjoy reading, because people enjoy not being americans every chance they get. [15:06]
truffles im anti intellectual? [15:06]
mircea_popescu course there are those less fortunate who rarely get such a chance, but you're basically arguing that they should be opressed moar just to keep it up. [15:07]
truffles not arguing in either direction, its called observation [15:07]
mircea_popescu you're also a weasel, but whatever. [15:07]
mircea_popescu didn't you just call the guy a nerd for not being as stupid as you'd like people to be generally ? [15:08]
mircea_popescu he's not a nerd, you're scum, that's all. [15:08]
twizt lol [15:08]
truffles i just roll my eyes [15:09]
truffles so over the top trying to be right? [15:09]
mircea_popescu read a book instead. same effort, moar results. [15:09]
truffles id like to know what definition ure using for weasel and scum [15:10]
KRS1 =/ [15:11]
mircea_popescu weasel is someone who behaves arrogantly and offensively anti-thinking, and when they have it pointed out to them they claim they were "just observing", in your case. [15:11]
mircea_popescu more generally, any passive-aggressive behaviour fits under weasel. [15:11]
mircea_popescu and scum is one who thinks that the solution to their own stupidity and laziness is enticing, encouraging and if need be forcing everyone else to be equally lazy and stupid. [15:12]
truffles how was i being arrogant in this case [15:12]
mircea_popescu just trying to say u put in more effort than most ppl prob << how do you distinguish this from "niggers are just born with less smarts" ? [15:13]
mircea_popescu they're the same substance, "let's presume inferiority abroad" [15:13]
mircea_popescu such presumption is the core of arrogance. [15:13]
truffles anyone could be a nerd [15:13]
mircea_popescu no. anyone could be you. [15:13]
mircea_popescu being what you call a nerd takes some sweat. [15:13]
mircea_popescu or in other words, any fuckwit can "roll their eyes" pointlessly. actually reading a book takes some effort. [15:14]
truffles arguing with u would take effort [15:14]
truffles id have to painstakingly present the idea [15:14]
truffles and i cant be arsed [15:14]
mircea_popescu it does also save you from making a fool of yourself thinking hemingway invented donne, but that's i suppose a minor point, especially if you are careful to live among people who won't laugh to your face for it. [15:14]
truffles sigh [15:14]
mircea_popescu see ? now that's scum :) [15:15]
truffles one doesnt have to use big words but if ure constantly using profanity to exert an opinion its kinda hopeless [15:17]
mircea_popescu you may wish to check the definition of profanity. [15:17]
mircea_popescu if that's not too much effort for you today. [15:17]
truffles haha [15:17]
truffles let me use "insults" then [15:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00083792 = 8.6306 BTC [-] [15:18]
mircea_popescu there's the truthfulness defense. something's not an insult just because you don't like hearing it. [15:19]
truffles now ur opinions are truths umk [15:19]
mircea_popescu and for that matter, calling things you don't like to hear opinions doesn't much change the reality of them. [15:20]
mircea_popescu stuff that lays on the bottom of still water, rolling its eyes and not putting any effort is scum, that's what it is, look it up. [15:20]
truffles list the facts with evidence [15:20]
mircea_popescu i have little contribution in all of that. [15:20]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00289379 = 0.2315 BTC [-] [15:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32307 @ 0.00084059 = 27.1569 BTC [+] {2} [15:29]
TomServo .d [15:32]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1615 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.8087% in 9d 13h 16m 35s [15:32]
TomServo ;;bc,stats [15:33]
gribble Current Blocks: 280623 | Current Difficulty: 1.7895469510532405E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 282239 | Next Difficulty In: 1616 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2055670895.85 | Estimated Percent Change: 14.87102 [15:33]
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midnightmagic mikaeldice MiningBuddy- mircea_popescu mius mixdio_ [15:37]
midnightmagic mikaeldice MiningBuddy- mircea_popescu mius mixdio_ [15:37]
mircea_popescu ;;later mike_c http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/ is the dividends table off ? [15:38]
gribble Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "mike_c" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin. [15:38]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell mike_c http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/ is the dividends table off ? [15:38]
gribble The operation succeeded. [15:38]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00519903 = 0.1508 BTC [+] {2} [16:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25909 @ 0.00084426 = 21.8739 BTC [+] {3} [16:26]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell mike_c http://browsershots.org/screenshots/87688d1d7b2d311989c597ffa5845a8c see, that's what I mean. it's misalligned. [16:30]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00084532 = 8.7491 BTC [+] {2} [16:58]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.001 = 2 BTC [+] [17:06]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 125 @ 0.001 = 0.125 BTC [+] [17:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15687 @ 0.00084585 = 13.2688 BTC [+] [17:13]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04999999 = 0.25 BTC [+] [17:19]
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mike_c mircea_popescu: the table is aligned as designed. whether it's clear is another question. I went with showing the dividends in the month they were paid, which is generally the month after the profit was earned. [17:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 7752 @ 0.001 = 7.752 BTC [+] [17:37]
jurov mike_c: satoshi per share is off [17:38]
jurov also, information to how many shares was the dividend paid is very useful in this case [17:39]
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jurov for example, i have to dig it up every month to distribute divs without rounding errors [17:40]
mike_c i believe satoshi per share is accurate. at least, it is the same as on mpex [17:40]
jurov nope. if mpex pays 19btc to 100bn shares, it shows as 1 satoshi per share [17:40]
jurov but in reality it paid 19 satoshi per every 10 shares [17:41]
mike_c hm. ok, thanks. i'll make it more accurate. [17:41]
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mike_c last s.mpoe dividend was 13 satoshi per share. but it has 1bn shares :) [17:49]
mike_c and to jurov's point, it was actually 13.65 satoshi per share [17:49]
mike_c 136 BTC in one month. probably bigger than yours. [17:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21904 @ 0.00084591 = 18.5288 BTC [+] {2} [17:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12642 @ 0.00084613 = 10.6968 BTC [+] [17:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 48 @ 0.0052 = 0.2496 BTC [+] [17:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 22 @ 0.005199 = 0.1144 BTC [-] [17:54]
mike_c no. the stock price went up a lot last year, so the div. yield is pretty small. [17:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [MS] 2000 @ 0.005 = 10 BTC [17:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00515 = 0.515 BTC [-] {2} [17:55]
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mike_c as a matter of fact there is :) http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/ [17:55]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0050215 = 0.2009 BTC [-] [17:56]
Duffer1 morning #b-aa [17:56]
mike_c 83.8% [17:56]
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mike_c btcalpha is mine, just launched recently. deals with things i find interesting in btc finance. [17:58]
mike_c thanks [17:58]
mike_c not much i find interesting on havelock. [17:58]
jurov HL croaks by the time mike manages to do it [17:59]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 7 @ 0.06500001 = 0.455 BTC [-] {2} [18:00]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.001 = 1 BTC [+] [18:00]
mircea_popescu mike_c oh i c. maybe make a note somewhere or who knows [18:00]
mike_c yeah, will do. it's not super clear. [18:00]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 4 @ 0.06250001 = 0.25 BTC [-] {2} [18:01]
mircea_popescu it'll get confusing as all hell because s.mpoe actually pays divs same month *most* months [18:01]
mike_c i didn't want to force it though. start arbitrarily applying divs to certain months. because like, what about when a div is paid wrong? do I "fix" it? it does need to be more clear. [18:02]
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mircea_popescu you do have a point there. [18:03]
mircea_popescu there's value in this "theory / practice" approach anyway. for one thing mpex contracts even allow assets to skip a month entirely [18:04]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.001 = 0.2 BTC [+] [18:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 5720 @ 0.001 = 5.72 BTC [+] [18:17]
KRS1 I think its advantages like that those who scoff at the 30 btc seat on the exchange fail to learn. [18:17]
KRS1 uh nvm [18:18]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 439 @ 0.00483328 = 2.1218 BTC [-] {15} [18:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.001 = 2 BTC [+] [18:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54000102 BTC [+] [18:21]
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kakobrekla .d [18:37]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1593 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.2044% in 9d 9h 0m 56s [18:37]
kakobrekla nothing on the no side [18:37]
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mircea_popescu i guess it has to go to shit first [18:41]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 962 @ 0.001 = 0.962 BTC [+] [18:43]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4000 @ 0.00008607 = 0.3443 BTC [-] {3} [18:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 8 @ 0.1 = 0.8 BTC [-] {2} [18:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13582 @ 0.00084579 = 11.4875 BTC [-] [18:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32050 @ 0.00084571 = 27.105 BTC [-] {2} [18:59]
mike_c nice, great bet. [19:02]
mike_c http://bitbet.us/bet/718/satoshi-nakamoto-will-be-times-person-of-the/ [19:03]
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ozbot BitBet - Satoshi Nakamoto will be Time's Person of the Year 2014 [19:03]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00008603 = 0.129 BTC [-] [19:04]
* truffles (~truffles@dsl-vsabrasgw1-54fb64-140.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.07999998 = 1.52 BTC [+] {4} [19:06]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 12000 @ 0.00047606 = 5.7127 BTC [-] {5} [19:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 13200 @ 0.0004521 = 5.9677 BTC [-] {16} [19:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1800 @ 0.00044767 = 0.8058 BTC [-] {7} [19:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 300 @ 0.00043646 = 0.1309 BTC [-] {6} [19:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.10989993 = 0.3297 BTC [+] {3} [19:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 68 @ 0.00289999 = 0.1972 BTC [+] [19:14]
mike_c are you officially listing on hl? [19:16]
mike_c when? [19:16]
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rattaTATpow kakobreklahttp://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty [19:17]
mike_c good luck. i still don't think you should be raising btc, but you should be one of the better investments on hl :) [19:18]
rattaTATpow http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty [19:18]
ozbot Bitcoin Difficulty and Hashrate Chart - BitcoinWisdom [19:18]
mike_c because i don't think your roi will be better than just holding btc [19:18]
rattaTATpow ozbot and gribble seem to bemuch different than Bitcoinwisdom. [19:19]
rattaTATpow mike thatsnot a reason [19:20]
mike_c yes, stocks that aren't tied to a fiat income stream. [19:20]
rattaTATpow all investors should knowvy now thatstocks are merely denominatedinbtc [19:20]
rattaTATpow no such thing [19:21]
rattaTATpow all assets are affectedby fiat [19:21]
rattaTATpow its also possible forbtc to decline in price [19:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4056 @ 0.00084675 = 3.4344 BTC [+] [19:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 23 @ 0.02420869 = 0.5568 BTC [-] {4} [19:24]
mircea_popescu how did that clemens line go, "the less one is inclined to make definitive universal statements, the less likely they are to look like some random noob that ended up in the wrong channel" [19:26]
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jurov everything sucks [19:28]
jurov *the* most defnitive universal statement [19:28]
mircea_popescu some shit blows. [19:29]
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jurov that's not universal [19:29]
pankkake http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-15/sheer-idiocy-markets-one-chart-back lol, yet another one, after twtr [19:29]
ozbot The Sheer Idiocy Of The Markets In One Chart... Is Back | Zero Hedge [19:30]
mike_c efficient market pricing at its finest [19:30]
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mircea_popescu "everything sucks in the most efficient way possible" [19:32]
KRS1 .bait [19:32]
ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m69y6rGMuL1rwei2eo1_500.jpg [19:32]
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KRS1 Mmm [19:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'Lagrangian mechanics' of sucking? [19:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform :D [19:32]
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mircea_popescu anyway, i dun see the big deal. if this wasn;'t a problem we wouldn't need trademarks [19:33]
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mircea_popescu and also we could keep gasoline in cups right next to our coffee cups and type away in the dark [19:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.07000001 = 0.14 BTC [-] [19:34]
jurov perchance, isn't there a company with ticker like BTC or MPEX ? [19:34]
jurov or DOGE? :DDDD [19:34]
punkman there' [19:35]
punkman there's a BTC stock [19:35]
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jurov no doge... but unearthed this: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-finally-discovered-doge-going-171000253.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CbvxtZSC2MADnuTmYlQ [19:36]
mircea_popescu lol this is what internet experts with mucho experience and #1 delo negocios come up with [19:37]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-] {3} [19:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.049999 = 0.25 BTC [-] [19:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+] [19:46]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+] [19:47]
mircea_popescu mike_c i don't like that your comments eat newlines [19:53]
nubbins` .d [19:53]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1587 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.2558% in 9d 10h 46m 52s [19:53]
mike_c yeah, it looks dumb. [19:54]
mircea_popescu bitbet has the same problem, except there it's kind of deliberate to encourage ppl to be brief [19:54]
mike_c it will improved soon. easy fix. [19:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 22 @ 0.0048091 = 0.1058 BTC [-] {3} [19:57]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.049999 = 0.75 BTC [+] [19:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 135 @ 0.04999999 = 6.75 BTC [+] [20:00]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 87 @ 0.02500574 = 2.1755 BTC [-] {2} [20:02]
nubbins` FonziScheme joined the chat room. [20:03]
nubbins` FonziScheme: eyyyyyyy [20:03]
nubbins` lel [20:03]
Duffer1 >.< [20:05]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 40 @ 0.04999999 = 2 BTC [+] [20:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10595 @ 0.00084675 = 8.9713 BTC [+] [20:34]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04999999 = 0.25 BTC [+] [20:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3055 @ 0.00084688 = 2.5872 BTC [+] [21:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00084628 = 18.2796 BTC [-] {2} [21:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22695 @ 0.00084753 = 19.2347 BTC [+] {2} [21:19]
* benkay (~user@c-76-115-43-79.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8755 @ 0.00084837 = 7.4275 BTC [+] [21:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 350 @ 0.00284957 = 0.9973 BTC [-] {4} [21:33]
* CryptoAdd (50391635@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.57.22.53) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00084474 = 14.3606 BTC [-] {2} [21:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 6 @ 0.08200198 = 0.492 BTC [+] {2} [21:36]
CryptoAdd Visit us www.WorldCoinIndex.com [21:36]
Duffer1 oo that's gonna get annoying [21:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.08200199 = 0.41 BTC [+] [21:38]
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mike_c too late, spammer left. [21:45]
* CryptoAdd (50391635@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.57.22.53) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:46]
CryptoAdd ############### Visit us www.WorldCoinIndex.com ########################### [21:47]
pankkake seriously [21:47]
Duffer1 :( [21:47]
Apocalyptic yep, definitely better with the # [21:47]
Apocalyptic next time moar * [21:47]
mike_c i prefer >>>>> spammy! <<<<<<<<< [21:47]
pankkake ###### visit us goatse.pro ####### [21:48]
pankkake (does this chan strip colors?) [21:48]
Duffer1 new album from djmeat spin, visit us at meatspin.com [21:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 35 @ 0.04999999 = 1.75 BTC [+] [21:53]
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mircea_popescu lmao [22:05]
mircea_popescu pankkake ye [22:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 133 @ 0.04999999 = 6.65 BTC [+] {2} [22:06]
pankkake :( http://i.imgur.com/ZVGqWGP.png [22:06]
mircea_popescu http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ip/80.57.0.0/16/ << funny thing [22:06]
ozbot Bitcoin nodes from 80.57.0.0/16 network prefix - getaddr.bitnodes.io [22:06]
pankkake what is there to see? [22:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 156 @ 0.00279998 = 0.4368 BTC [-] {3} [22:10]
mircea_popescu guy's been running a node off the same ip he's spamming here ? [22:10]
pankkake oh [22:10]
mircea_popescu including where you may wish to complain, some nl host. [22:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00084796 = 3.9006 BTC [+] [22:15]
mike_c pankkake why is my name pink? [22:15]
pankkake maybe my gaydar is broken [22:16]
mike_c seriously. i want green. [22:16]
mircea_popescu lol [22:19]
mircea_popescu what color am i ? [22:19]
pankkake red. the script doesn't have many colors, and worse, sometimes nicks of the same lenght get the same color… [22:19]
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nubbins` hm [22:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.025 = 0.5 BTC [-] [22:25]
jurov mike_c: i have you pink, too. you need to change it, sry [22:27]
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mike_c maybe the gaydar is working. how revealing. [22:28]
jurov and mircea_popescu is light blue [22:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 549 @ 0.00099988 = 0.5489 BTC [+] {2} [22:29]
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mircea_popescu well everyone's baby blue on my thing, except me. i'm gray. [22:35]
nubbins` you're all orange here, and i'm dark red [22:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4000 @ 0.00008611 = 0.3444 BTC [-] {4} [22:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54077111 BTC [+] [22:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 12 @ 0.08200198 = 0.984 BTC [-] {3} [22:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 167 @ 0.0009999 = 0.167 BTC [+] {2} [22:39]
TomServo 256 color options in weechat baby, I'm really living over here. [22:40]
ystarnaud AM1 still holding above 0.5 [22:40]
ystarnaud not too bad [22:40]
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pankkake yeah, that's one of the reasons I need to switch to that weechat [22:41]
pankkake but that's 10 years of habits to break [22:42]
TomServo Yeah, that would be tough. Been a looong time since I used irssi/bitchx so it wasn't too bad for me. [22:43]
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nubbins` ystarnaud: people still hold AM1? [22:43]
ystarnaud yeah [22:44]
ystarnaud maybe not as many people [22:44]
ystarnaud but alot still do [22:44]
nubbins` interesting [22:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.04999999 = 0.3 BTC [+] {2} [22:45]
mircea_popescu it's probably the most diversely-held stock in the history of btc [22:51]
nubbins` no doubt [22:51]
mircea_popescu .d [22:55]
ozbot 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1560 blocks | Estimated Change: 16.1320% in 9d 1h 53m 16s [22:55]
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asciilifeform from the dept. of random turds: [23:02]
asciilifeform http://www.amazon.com/General-Dynamics-Systems-13247489-02-Module/dp/B00GH2AB7M [23:02]
ozbot General Dynamics C4 Systems 13247489-02 Module T25371: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific [23:02]
asciilifeform this is, apparently, a military disk drive. [23:02]
asciilifeform http://www.armyproperty.com/product/4LEK3/13247489-03/ [23:02]
ozbot Product / Part Number: 13247489-03 - DISK DRIVE UNIT by GENERAL DYNAMICS C4 SYSTEMS INC. - 4LEK3 - A [23:02]
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asciilifeform i always thought those got burned in the thermite pit on retirement, but go figure. [23:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 525 @ 0.0009997 = 0.5248 BTC [-] [23:04]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.049991 = 0.6999 BTC [-] [23:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14595 @ 0.00084796 = 12.376 BTC [+] [23:19]
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ArsKisS wut is dis [23:24]
ArsKisS seedcoin didn't crash more than 10% [23:24]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 208 @ 0.00089396 = 0.1859 BTC [-] {10} [23:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.NSA] 3000 @ 0.00017 = 0.51 BTC [+] [23:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.00526 = 0.1841 BTC [+] {2} [23:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00084729 = 1.6946 BTC [-] [23:53]
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