Forum logs for 04 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
pete_dushenski punkman: i wouldn't have thought so either [00:00]
asciilifeform before long, there will be special magick services that will help you spend... [00:00]
* pete_dushenski is nothing if not "opportunistic smalltimer" [00:00]
asciilifeform bitpal. [00:00]
mircea_popescu bitpal by mital. [00:01]
asciilifeform see where the train goes. [00:01]
punkman I try to keep in mind: "network might be down for a year, can you live with that" [00:03]
punkman is this a bastardized mp quote? can't recall the source [00:04]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [00:04]
mircea_popescu i'll gladly take the credit if it saves you the time to search for sauce. [00:04]
punkman from the i-don't-even department [00:05]
assbot ... ( ) [00:05]
pete_dushenski also from gur, [00:07]
assbot There's always that one guy.... ... ( ) [00:07]
mircea_popescu is this something by that dank dude ? [00:07]
pete_dushenski wait... that's a double post [00:07]
pete_dushenski meant to post this [00:08]
assbot ... ( ) [00:08]
* p15_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:08]
asciilifeform l0lzy, neutron blackening of optics [00:09]
punkman imgur videos are the worst with noscript. I click+delete the flash placeholder, allow the mp4, it reloads, then I allow the webm and maybe it start playing [00:10]
punkman !s jl777 [00:11]
assbot 2 results for 'jl777' : [00:11]
punkman (supernet guy) [00:11]
* joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy) [00:12]
* p15 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [00:12]
BingoBoingo like short circuit in electronics. << For live examples see brainwallets [00:12]
asciilifeform brainwallet is an iq test. [00:13]
asciilifeform ~the~ iq test. [00:13]
BingoBoingo Also tx propagation test [00:13]
BingoBoingo Who can spend inputs first when they arrive [00:13]
asciilifeform if you have a reasonable brain you can even brainrsakey. [00:14]
asciilifeform yes. [00:14]
BingoBoingo Oh no, I mean enough people have keys for many brainwallets so anytime they recieve coins it is off to the races for at least tens of scrapers [00:16]
BingoBoingo Wait, [00:16]
asciilifeform ah you meant idiotwallets [00:18]
asciilifeform with keys like sha512('foo'). [00:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27561 @ 0.00056784 = 15.6502 BTC [+] [00:19]
BingoBoingo aha [00:19]
BingoBoingo Yes, I mean the actual in the wild phenomenon [00:19]
punkman there's a new 8char brainwallet challenge, apparently nobody solved the last one [00:19]
assbot WarpWallet - deterministic bitcoin wallet generator ... ( ) [00:20]
BingoBoingo Cool Origin Story [00:24]
assbot Once upon a time... I accidentally killed a deathfat | fatpeoplehate ... ( ) [00:24]
* alnit (~asdf@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:27]
BingoBoingo !up alnit [00:27]
* assbot gives voice to alnit [00:27]
* dbclk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:35]
BingoBoingo Deviancy [00:35]
assbot ... ( ) [00:35]
* dbclk (~dbclk@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:36]
cazalla i dunno how you stomach it BingoBoingo, one of your fold mold comments on /r/bitcoin i think it was made me gag [00:36]
BingoBoingo lol [00:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> ~the~ iq test. << "variant thought" and iq are at best orthogonal. [00:37]
BingoBoingo This is becoming a problem even for me, did I write that thing I just came across or not [00:37]
cazalla doesn't read like previous ones of yours i've read, so i guess no [00:38]
mircea_popescu lol first culture problems. [00:38]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [00:50]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 421.85, vol: 6744.23638592 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.06, vol: 6696.72947 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.83, vol: 15402.83472685 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 428.8068, vol: 56255.23460000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 422.147, vol: 3751.10880038 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.71995, vol: 67.15733005 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [00:50]
BingoBoingo ;;more [00:50]
gribble 426.601357001 [00:50]
cazalla straya! [00:52]
assbot New extremism guidelines require schools to report suspect behaviour | Australia news | The Guardian ... ( ) [00:52]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.35570199 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - [00:54]
* joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:55]
* assbot removes voice from alnit [00:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28654 @ 0.00056797 = 16.2746 BTC [+] {2} [01:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6301 @ 0.00056694 = 3.5723 BTC [-] {3} [01:12]
* asciilifeform falling down, will finish broadcast when he wakes up. [01:16]
* joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy) [01:19]
* gsdgdfs ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:27]
* assbot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [01:28]
* trinque has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [01:28]
* Transisto2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [01:29]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell trinque << not .txt is the problem? [01:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:32]
* trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:32]
* Soligor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:32]
ben_vulpes ew felipelalli has jpegs in his keys [01:32]
ben_vulpes trinque: not .txt is problem? [01:33]
* shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [01:33]
* Soligor (~Soligor@unaffiliated/soligor) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:36]
* shesek ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:40]
ben_vulpes !up felipelalli [01:43]
* assbot (~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:43]
* ChanServ gives voice to assbot [01:43]
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to assbot [01:43]
ben_vulpes !up felipelalli [01:44]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [01:44]
felipelalli ben_vulpes, yes, I have my photo in there. [01:44]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [01:44]
felipelalli ben_vulpes, but I didn't understand the relation. [01:44]
trinque asciilifeform │ this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!' << bahahaha dear god my sides [01:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12185 @ 0.00056826 = 6.9242 BTC [+] {2} [01:47]
punkman [01:59]
assbot Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE Spectrum ... ( ) [01:59]
punkman "They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining." [02:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38584 @ 0.00056519 = 21.8073 BTC [-] {3} [02:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24249 @ 0.00056201 = 13.6282 BTC [-] [02:12]
* TheAdversary has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [02:14]
* assbot removes voice from felipelalli [02:14]
* Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [02:15]
punkman [02:16]
assbot Why there are 5 months old unconfirmed transactions sitting in the mempool? : Bitcoin ... ( ) [02:16]
* sinetek_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:19]
* sinetek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40129 @ 0.00056201 = 22.5529 BTC [-] {2} [02:20]
* PaulCapestany has quit (Quit: .) [02:20]
* PaulCapestany (~PaulCapes@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:21]
punkman !up PaulCapestany [02:23]
* assbot gives voice to PaulCapestany [02:23]
* PaulCapestany has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:23]
* PaulCapestany (~PaulCapes@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:25]
* DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:26]
* Hasimir (~hfenring@unaffiliated/hasimir) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:26]
* TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00056195 = 9.6655 BTC [-] {2} [02:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00056182 = 19.2142 BTC [-] {3} [02:33]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.56056253 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - [02:36]
* Duffer1 has quit (Quit: later) [02:44]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [03:04]
* trixis (~trixis@2601:280:4102:c7de:422:770a:fee0:83d8) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:04]
* trixis is now known as Guest43958 [03:05]
* trixisowned (~trixis@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:07]
* twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [03:08]
punkman [03:09]
assbot ECDSA Key Extraction from Mobile Devices via Nonintrusive Physical [03:09]
* Guest43958 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [03:09]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:09]
* justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [03:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00056166 = 19.967 BTC [-] {2} [03:17]
* assbot gives voice to TomServo [03:21]
TomServo ;;blocks [03:24]
gribble 401082 [03:24]
TomServo yay! finally a sync'd node. [03:26]
* justanotheruser (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:32]
* Reydev ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76747 @ 0.00056139 = 43.085 BTC [-] {3} [03:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4103 @ 0.00055984 = 2.297 BTC [-] [03:46]
TomServo << Any suggested reading on this topic? [03:48]
assbot Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers [03:48]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:02]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 45.67770000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - [04:04]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:07]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:18]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:25]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:30]
* BigBitz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [04:36]
* bigbitz (~bigbitz@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:37]
* bigbitz is now known as Guest99586 [04:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00056354 = 23.4996 BTC [+] {2} [04:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00055983 = 3.9468 BTC [-] {3} [04:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14049 @ 0.00056632 = 7.9562 BTC [+] {2} [04:50]
* cazalla has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [04:56]
* Taek (~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:13]
* anondran (~anondran@unaffiliated/anondran) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:16]
* anondran has quit (Client Quit) [05:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16342 @ 0.00056788 = 9.2803 BTC [+] [05:18]
danielpbarron !up Taek [05:22]
* assbot gives voice to Taek [05:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00056414 = 26.5146 BTC [-] {5} [05:47]
* assbot removes voice from Taek [05:52]
* Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [06:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52550 @ 0.0005666 = 29.7748 BTC [+] [06:31]
* dbclk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [06:35]
* dbclk (~dbclk@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:35]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [07:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3655 @ 0.00056773 = 2.0751 BTC [+] [07:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00056307 = 21.0588 BTC [-] {3} [07:24]
punkman [07:32]
assbot [bitcoin-dev] Hardfork to fix difficulty drop algorithm ... ( ) [07:32]
* punkman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [07:36]
* assbot gives voice to davout [07:51]
* punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9213 @ 0.00056156 = 5.1737 BTC [-] [08:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39400 @ 0.00056001 = 22.0644 BTC [-] {4} [08:37]
* Reydev ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:39]
* Duffer1 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:06]
mircea_popescu punkman> "They are giving us 90 days paid working notice, one-month severance, and $2500 in money for retraining." <<< pretty generous. [09:09]
mircea_popescu TomServo> yay! finally a sync'd node. << wd! [09:09]
* Xuthus (~NULMiJ@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:14]
mircea_popescu TomServo> << Any suggested reading on this topic? << mid 1800s, galveston was the world's cotton center. by the 1900s, dallas had overtaken it as the center of texas. lots of discussion of this change that's emblematic from a more general shift from "midwest = great american desert" to "we built some pumps and whatnot, let's farm and raise cattle" to "holy shit [09:18]
mircea_popescu oil!" to, finally, "flyover country". not entirely sure who'd be the indicated canon on the topic. as everything else to do with culture, starting with the great "american" novel and ending with the great "american" dictionary, the us has failed to produce usable works. maybe one day a gibbon is born in kenya or wherever and writes its history. [09:18]
assbot Logged on 24-02-2016 23:24:36; mircea_popescu: over the dead bodies of ranchers [09:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21196 @ 0.00055945 = 11.8581 BTC [-] [09:27]
* liead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [09:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80492 @ 0.00055945 = 45.0312 BTC [-] [09:40]
shinohai ;;ticker --market all [09:50]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 420.2, vol: 6541.50522339 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.957, vol: 7173.25211 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 420.36, vol: 12985.15674317 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.579272, vol: 49212.27850000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 421.513, vol: 2737.18385922 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.160837, vol: 80.75259039 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [09:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00055984 = 21.6658 BTC [+] {2} [09:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34705 @ 0.00055945 = 19.4157 BTC [-] [09:55]
deedbot- [Trilema] Portrait of an adult woman - [10:06]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [10:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00055937 = 27.9126 BTC [-] {3} [10:20]
davout I started looking into how bitmex's engine actually works, and god, it's an abomination [10:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.00055888 = 24.9819 BTC [-] {4} [10:41]
davout kindof reads to me like "ohai, we're offering x100 leverage, but because we can't be sure to liquidate positions properly, we spread losses on everyone who actually made a profit" [10:41]
davout in other words: "spreading works" [10:41]
davout therefore, echo "bitmex" > niggers.txt [10:43]
mircea_popescu they published the engine or is this just probing ? [10:45]
* GNULinuxGuy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [10:45]
davout it's their documentation [10:45]
davout [10:46]
assbot Dynamic Profit Equalisation - BitMEX ... ( ) [10:46]
mircea_popescu heh. also this sounds exactly like icbit / bitfinex. same people ? [10:46]
davout i don't think so [10:46]
mircea_popescu same language i guess then. [10:47]
davout "language" [10:47]
mircea_popescu heh. [10:47]
davout so basically you can actually use high leverage, except it doesn't quite work so well when you win, because it doesn't work very well when you lose [10:48]
davout reddit dude sums it up nicely "Even though every contract has a counterpart, think of whole thing conceptually as being somewhat pooled with no specific counterparty and the winning traders jointly as bagholders of last resort." [10:49]
davout Bagholders. Of last resort. [10:50]
davout aka the Bitcoin movie [10:50]
* NewLiberty ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:02]
* Reydev2 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:08]
* SuchWow (~SuchWow@dogecoin/staff-emeritus/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:09]
* Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [11:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00055875 = 4.5818 BTC [-] {2} [11:13]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:34]
thestringpuller i think icbit got shut down [11:59]
* PeterL (~peter@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:18]
davout "A weird exchange nobody really trades on,, has run into some trouble with the CFTC." [12:26]
davout [12:26]
thestringpuller i remember when MP exposed them as a scam way back in 2012 [12:27]
kakobrekla an i thought tycho (deepbit) retired? [12:31]
kakobrekla davout if the fork (say 'classic') happens, is paymium expected to stay on the current blocks ? [12:32]
davout kakobrekla: [12:34]
kakobrekla you will have two separate trading markets ? [12:34]
* dbclk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [12:34]
* dbclk (~dbclk@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:35]
davout tbh i don't know, what i know is that there won't be any bullshit like "oh btw, withdrawals on chain [A|B] are deprecated" [12:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25950 @ 0.00055875 = 14.4996 BTC [-] [12:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42008 @ 0.00055883 = 23.4753 BTC [+] [12:48]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 33.65869796 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - [12:50]
* schmidty has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [13:01]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [13:01]
PeterL With bitbet doublesending the Jeb Bush bet, are they going to have to take out a bridge loan from MPIF again? [13:03]
PeterL And is that going to be classified under "advertising expenses" since it got the bitbet name out in a bunch of media? [13:05]
* schmidty (~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:06]
jurov i believe it should be budgeted to security or R&D dept... who ever seen marketing monkeys to meddle with technology so [13:09]
jurov or actually... as the whole thing was about bitcoin protocol enforcement, law dept would be prolly best choice. [13:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7769 @ 0.00056105 = 4.3588 BTC [+] {3} [13:12]
jurov *legal dept, i mean [13:12]
jurov and there is likely also no-such-dept. involved [13:13]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [13:13]
danielpbarron for BingoBoingo >> << warning : NSFL [13:14]
assbot ... ( ) [13:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00056241 = 19.8531 BTC [+] {4} [13:18]
* Reydev2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [13:22]
* sueastside has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [13:22]
* sueastside ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:24]
mircea_popescu "no such dept" not even a half-bad idea. [13:42]
mircea_popescu "we've had some no such expenses this month somehow related to the bitcoin protocol of the future's many advantages which can not be specified for guess why reasons." [13:42]
mircea_popescu everyone happy with that ? [13:42]
mircea_popescu and in other "woman is a book" news, [13:45]
assbot ... ( ) [13:45]
* asciilifeform awake, cranks out broadcast slowly while on the stake [13:48]
asciilifeform meanwhile, a golden oldie, just for mircea_popescu : [13:49]
assbot Bugtraq: GnuPG 1.4.12 and lower - memory access errors and keyring database corruption ... ( ) [13:49]
thestringpuller whoa, asciilifeform just dropped some phat rhymes [13:49]
mircea_popescu skate/stake/steak/on the take etc bla bla, enough rhymes in there for a full rap album. [13:51]
mircea_popescu Alfie Lifeform not a terribru rapper name, either. [13:51]
asciilifeform l0l! [13:51]
mircea_popescu in other news, according to reddit i am by far the bitcoiner most likely to have a collection of human body parts in my fridge. [13:54]
mircea_popescu depending on the exact definition of "human body parts" you use, i will grant that this is actually the case. [13:54]
asciilifeform at any rate, i suspect that i found one of the magical orifices the dud keys went in. [13:56]
asciilifeform also as i write this, my cellmate/boss is fuzzing gpgtron. [13:57]
mircea_popescu lol are you subverting the kolhoz for counter-party activities ? [13:58]
mircea_popescu you should start wearing round glasses and a pickaxe hole in the temple already. [13:58]
asciilifeform how else. [13:58]
asciilifeform prolly been fitted for the hole'n'glasses already. [13:58]
asciilifeform << l0lwut? [14:00]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 16:41:20; mircea_popescu: "no such dept" not even a half-bad idea. [14:00]
shinohai More for BingoBoingo - a possible front view of what danielpbarron posted earlier: [14:00]
assbot ... ( ) [14:00]
mircea_popescu see next line. [14:00]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ? [14:00]
asciilifeform it'd be a welcome change from the usaschwitz crud [14:01]
mircea_popescu see, this is exactly what i'm asking him : if you should be allowed to continue in this childhood delusion :) [14:02]
asciilifeform l0l which one [14:02]
mircea_popescu shinohai i don't get it, person should go through 1-200ish gallons of water a year, every year. what's the problem there ? [14:02]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that it'd be a change. [14:03]
asciilifeform wai wut i thought my delusion was that usg is everywhere [14:03]
mircea_popescu you know, if you meet two retarded teenagers cca 2004, it doesn't mean "britni is everywhere". [14:03]
mircea_popescu retardation belongs to no-one, even if it is always and perpetually the exact same. [14:04]
shinohai I guess the point being she is adamant that fluid is the reason she is fat, and not the 28 BigMacs she consumes for lunch daily. [14:04]
* stoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [14:08]
mircea_popescu she does look pretty edematous [14:08]
* stoon ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:08]
* Uglux (~uglux@unaffiliated/uglux) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36016 @ 0.00055875 = 20.1239 BTC [-] [14:27]
asciilifeform << lulz [14:28]
assbot LKML: Jeff King: Re: Don't use PGP/GPG signatures in mail that contains patches ... ( ) [14:28]
asciilifeform we - in case anybody had any doubts - 'don't exist', never happened... [14:28]
mircea_popescu doh. [14:31]
mircea_popescu and we can say jack shit about it - because guess what ? phuctor still down. [14:31]
mircea_popescu this has been a perfect case of typically lispian self-sabotage, for the record. [14:31]
asciilifeform i actually shelved the lisp ver. [14:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30699 @ 0.0005617 = 17.2436 BTC [+] {2} [14:32]
asciilifeform having realized this. [14:32]
mircea_popescu not a comment on the language - a comment on the mentality. "oh this box is not good". fine. "oh this other box is not yet ready". fine. whatever all this may mean in the ideal world of ideals, what it means in practice is that - never happened. [14:33]
deedbot- [Daniel P. Barron] The Big Singer - [14:33]
mircea_popescu check out the drinks guy! [14:35]
danielpbarron :D [14:36]
mircea_popescu you gotta re-doi the overlay on the header tho, i can see the edges and a nose/hairline of a guy in the irght [14:36]
danielpbarron more to come in that category! [14:36]
danielpbarron heh, ok [14:36]
* Reydev ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:41]
danielpbarron btw, that guy on the right is Birdman of Eulora infamy [14:43]
danielpbarron dealing poker at porcfest; that picture was taken in the morning near the end of an all-night game [14:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056368 = 8.5116 BTC [+] {2} [14:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00056041 = 8.6864 BTC [-] {4} [14:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00055862 = 5.7538 BTC [-] {2} [14:59]
asciilifeform sooo crying over 'math is hard!111' is hip now ? >> [14:59]
assbot I no longer understand my PhD dissertation (and what this means for Mathematics Education) — Medium ... ( ) [14:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36850 @ 0.00055856 = 20.5829 BTC [-] {3} [15:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12733 @ 0.00055847 = 7.111 BTC [-] {2} [15:07]
* justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [15:10]
mircea_popescu new party line i guess. proactively closing the uni financing gap and all that. [15:13]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:5c:711e:cb8e:1cb3) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:14]
asciilifeform it isn't as if most of the meatpuppets were doing whatever mathematical thing. [15:15]
asciilifeform so the reason has to be something else. [15:15]
mircea_popescu something else other than the uni-money pump can't be sustained anymore ? why ? [15:16]
asciilifeform because then the article would be 'the new, hip trade schools!11' or the like. [15:17]
mircea_popescu oh in somewaht lulzy news : obama is going to be in argentina 23-24th. he (and his 850 camp followers) is however not going to stay in buenos aires, but some far flung provincial shithole. either because afraid of running into me on corrientes, or else because petrified of LEFT WING PROTESTS. [15:17]
mircea_popescu cuz yeah, the socialists here more or less ready to firebomb the socialists from there. [15:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform much like soviet economy endgame, stuff isn't being replaced. simply removed. [15:17]
asciilifeform well yeah, but the ~order~ of removal is peculiar. [15:18]
asciilifeform most of the participants in the college racket are innocent of mathematics as it is. [15:18]
mircea_popescu why ? currently the harvard/mit/etc hedge funds masquerading as universities are pretty much the largest problem on fed's map. [15:18]
mircea_popescu oh, this isn't about math. this is about stem. stem costs TURKEY dollars. [15:19]
mircea_popescu the "studies" whores cost paper dollars. [15:19]
PeterL isn't the "m" in "stem" math? [15:19]
asciilifeform it used to ~cost~ when an engineering graduate expected to build bridges, pipelines. [15:20]
asciilifeform but not now. [15:20]
mircea_popescu you can replace the ~100 trn worth ivy league & friends that do a 10-20 bn spending on actual hardware each year and otherwise shuffle paper on the exchanges with a new-and-improved thing worth ~1-2 bn that spends 50 bucks on mcdonalsa a year. [15:20]
asciilifeform now he only expects, reasonably, to derp in cad and crap out 'intellectual property!111' [15:20]
asciilifeform he costs same as 'womenz studies' chick. [15:20]
mircea_popescu that's 100 trn in air bubble to breathe while the dod keeps losing trucks nominally full of trucks that were fully loaded with trucks. [15:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform afaik this isn't true. [15:21]
mircea_popescu specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon. [15:21]
mircea_popescu notably enough : romania told the soviets to shut it, and as a result the policy was updated to allow people (ie, romania) to do w/e it pleases. [15:22]
mircea_popescu curious if any of the loser satellites will succeed, or for that matter try, something similar. [15:22]
mircea_popescu (but now we know what the "protests" were for. softening - in preparation of this.) [15:22]
asciilifeform (i am speaking of cost of his doing business. ~wage~ is paid in the same toilet paper to everybody in usaschwitz) [15:23]
mircea_popescu right. so am i. [15:23]
mircea_popescu PeterL only marginally. [15:23]
mircea_popescu you know what the eu cyclotron cost ? you know, that thing the us could never afford ? [15:23]
asciilifeform << what would this look like ? [15:23]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 18:20:51; mircea_popescu: specifically : while the universities may well be pushing costs down as you describe, they're sure as fuck noty passing the savings up the chain to comecon. [15:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it looks like, mit still is the hedge fund it was, whether it spends x on wage and y on fixed/capital goods or just x/2 on wage and epsilon on f/c [15:24]
mircea_popescu the savings show in mit's bottom line, not in the fed's. [15:24]
asciilifeform it's a usg crown hedgefund. in what sense does it not serve hitler ? [15:24]
mircea_popescu it is NOT a usg crown hedgefund anymore than romania was a soviet property. [15:24]
asciilifeform dunno about that, good chunk of mit income is direct usg grantolade [15:25]
mircea_popescu it has its own head. and this is a serious problem for the pretense of central planning, because they effectively suck down resources. [15:25]
mircea_popescu yep, it is. [15:25]
mircea_popescu try having children sometime, and then give them money, and then see what happens. [15:25]
mircea_popescu i don't think any human being in the history of this "man-woman family" idiocy has EVER heard "sure dad, go ahead, it's your money anyway" [15:26]
mircea_popescu ironically, sultans and other practitioners of "man-slavegirls-theirlitter family" did and regularly do hear such, for reasons that should be obvious and for which reason they're never discussed in idiocy-land. [15:27]
mircea_popescu anywya. [15:28]
asciilifeform hey, now we have man-wienerschnitzel and woman-sofa phamily. pr0gr355555!111 [15:28]
PeterL The chemistry building where I went to college sits adjacent to the "National superconducting cyclotron", they were in the process of building the "facility for rare isotope beams" when I graduated [15:28]
* Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [15:28]
jurov Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see: [15:28]
mircea_popescu PeterL how much does that sorta thing cost ? you know ? [15:28]
PeterL I dunno, bunches of dollars? [15:29]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform is what i'm saying here making sense to you ? [15:29]
asciilifeform PeterL: the usg uni thing was originally a product of the 1950s wunderwaffen obsession, that has been fading since [15:29]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which [15:29]
asciilifeform the sultan thing ? [15:29]
asciilifeform not entirely [15:29]
mircea_popescu nah, the thing with money flow. [15:29]
asciilifeform the argument is clear but i don't see how the wunderwaffen payola is necessarily 'turkeydollar' [15:30]
asciilifeform so an engineer is paid 200k-usd. he spends it in same place as the lit major. [15:30]
asciilifeform housing racket. [15:30]
mircea_popescu because the cyclotron building either works or does not. and they can't lie about the latter. [15:30]
mircea_popescu nonononon [15:30]
PeterL heh, looks like they are still in the process of building it [15:30]
assbot Welcome to FRIB | ... ( ) [15:30]
mircea_popescu not that. "National superconducting cyclotron" < that. [15:30]
asciilifeform actually they can. [15:30]
asciilifeform familiar with the webb space telescope ? [15:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, beause the euros and the chinese are building actual working things. [15:31]
asciilifeform 1) spend $xx B on project. [15:31]
asciilifeform 2) cancel 'at last minute' [15:31]
mircea_popescu PeterL see what i mean ? [15:31]
asciilifeform 3) profit!111 [15:31]
thestringpuller free money111 [15:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform only works if you're alone. the us is quite behind in tech fixed goods atm. [15:31]
mircea_popescu QUITE behind. [15:31]
mircea_popescu this means the good chinese phds do not go there anymore ; and that the americans who aren't fucktarded long left. [15:31]
PeterL well, the cyclotron works currently, the frib is an addition [15:32]
asciilifeform place is still packed with chinese. [15:32]
mircea_popescu and all the smoke and mirrors the vc freakshow may aim to deploy with software ain't gonna help lipstick this one pig. [15:32]
asciilifeform and usa is quite alone in its solipsist hell. [15:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's all sorts of chinese, and enough of each sort, to feed all bologna factories both with workers and raw material. and still have leftover actual phjds. [15:32]
asciilifeform (no one knows or cares about chinese telescope here.) [15:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform recall the lulz i had in the logs when it was discovered the icbc, an economic institution with a sheet larger than the entire us banking sector, was actually NOT EVEN TRADED in the us ? [15:33]
asciilifeform l0l real phds? you mean like these - ? [15:33]
mircea_popescu pinksheets, barely, a fund-of-a-fund thing ? [15:33]
assbot Crystal myth: 11 more retractions from crystallography journal after 2010 fakery - Retraction Watch at Retraction Watch ... ( ) [15:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform seeing how the article is about english articles, exactly not like those. [15:33]
asciilifeform so, meta-china ? [15:34]
asciilifeform the one that doesn't publish anything ? [15:34]
mircea_popescu PeterL your definition of works being, of course, that it's never included in any actual measurements of anything. look through the actual research sheets, the euros never bother asking them to replicate jack. [15:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform publishes plenty, and the ru even translate here and there. [15:34]
asciilifeform can haz example? [15:36]
mircea_popescu no, because i don't read chinese, nor actually care punctually. i just get (and care about) synthetic reports. [15:36]
asciilifeform the ghost cities suggest that cn beats usa at entirely everything, including fraud and bezzle. [15:38]
mircea_popescu sure. but the stupid parts are not of particular interest here. [15:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform meanwhile i asked for sauce [15:42]
mircea_popescu here you go, very partial list of first pass : [15:42]
assbot dpaste: 2823GVE ... ( ) [15:42]
asciilifeform what even is this [15:43]
asciilifeform library catalogue ? [15:43]
mircea_popescu aha. [15:43]
asciilifeform it is not a mega-surprise that there are libraries in cn. [15:43]
asciilifeform but where is the room-temp supercon. [15:44]
asciilifeform it is in the same nowhere as here, afaik. [15:44]
mircea_popescu libraries in cn about physics written in cn by cn that you can't get in english [15:44]
asciilifeform (though uncle al had a pretty solid suspicion that they built his eotvostron) [15:44]
mircea_popescu was the discussion. [15:44]
asciilifeform ah. [15:44]
mircea_popescu and curse you, now i want to read inept shit about cuprate superconductives. [15:45]
mircea_popescu blergh. i knew i shouldn't have done this. [15:45]
asciilifeform lulzily, i threw one into google and got [15:46]
asciilifeform that has... english abstract. [15:46]
asciilifeform as most of'em appear to. [15:46]
asciilifeform (why???!) [15:46]
mircea_popescu no idea. [15:46]
shinohai <<< ty jurov [15:46]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 18:27:43; jurov: Qntra shares distributed. shinohai see: [15:46]
asciilifeform where did mircea_popescu even get this list. took it off a dead nazi ? [15:46]
PeterL "English is the language of science!" [15:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the way my intel works is that i don't give a shit about the source data, i read summaries of summaries. but god fucking help you if i go for a endpoint-to-endpoint spot check and the whole conduit isn't there. [15:47]
mircea_popescu so if i want the raw for something, i can generally get the raw for something. [15:47]
mircea_popescu or as much as fits in the buffer i'm willing to handle, at any rate. [15:47]
PeterL Abstract in English so that people can decide whether or not they need to get the rest of the paper translated [15:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: reasonable. [15:48]
mircea_popescu PeterL honestly i suspect it's more of a "we're slowly outgrowing this quaint historical convention where it's what's done." [15:48]
* CryptoSiD ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:48]
mircea_popescu !up CryptoSiD [15:48]
-assbot- You voiced CryptoSiD for 30 minutes. [15:48]
* assbot gives voice to CryptoSiD [15:48]
CryptoSiD hello [15:48]
mircea_popescu hi [15:48]
CryptoSiD why do i get voiced [15:48]
CryptoSiD im that popular! [15:48]
CryptoSiD feel like a freenode star right now:D [15:49]
mircea_popescu who're you ? [15:49]
CryptoSiD im CryptoSiD! [15:49]
CryptoSiD :) [15:50]
mircea_popescu !down CryptoSiD [15:50]
* assbot removes voice from CryptoSiD [15:50]
mircea_popescu have fun now. [15:50]
shinohai lolz [15:50]
mircea_popescu come to think about it, i guess good intel works pretty much like you want your lisp ast thing to work. [15:54]
mircea_popescu surprising i guess ~ no one [15:55]
asciilifeform aha. [15:55]
asciilifeform correct things are all quite alike, broken crapolade is each broken in its own broken-glass way [15:55]
asciilifeform or how did it go. [15:55]
mircea_popescu somethinglike.that [15:59]
mircea_popescu and in other gross and deeply disturbing news you had no idea you were interested in : the right way to get the butt flavour in girl's mouth is to fuck ass with condom on, then take it off and have her suck you. bacteria - do not cross the silicon barrier. mercaptans and other intoxicating goodies - do. [16:02]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo should i do a small piece on argentina or really too far off scope ? << Go for it [16:09]
* CryptoSiD ( has left #bitcoin-assets [16:11]
jurov can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs [16:22]
assbot Logged on 03-03-2016 17:37:20; asciilifeform: sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ? [16:22]
jurov verification is not O(1) even if no unconfirmed inputs is enforced, it's O(N) where N is number of inputs [16:26]
jurov to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine [16:29]
jurov (i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly) [16:30]
jurov it will be done some day in shivascheme, maybe even by me, but I don't seehow to keep good (or predictable) memory usage [16:31]
jurov this is *the* problem, not chained unconfirmed transactions [16:31]
mircea_popescu jurov> (i actually did the prototype, noone picked it up yet, really gnarly) << yeah i know it's rather miserable. [16:38]
asciilifeform jurov: iirc your prototype crashed for everybody [16:44]
thestringpuller LOL. my coworkers just bailed. it's weird being the responsibile one... [16:44]
* GNULinuxGuy (~lg@unaffiliated/gnulinuxguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:47]
* Uglux has quit (Quit: Leaving) [16:48]
asciilifeform << this is nonsense, please take 5 min to think ! [16:53]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 19:21:33; jurov: can you please substantiate? you're not saving anything much algorithmically-wise by rejecting tx with unconfiremd inputs [16:53]
asciilifeform a mysterymeat orphan piece of shit takes up ~space~ [16:54]
asciilifeform and if you allow chained tx, now you have to walk the mempool when checking the validity of ~any~ incoming tx. [16:57]
* Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus) [16:57]
asciilifeform what is so hard to grasp about this. [16:57]
asciilifeform << use a fibonacci heap. [16:58]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 19:28:45; jurov: to compare, implementing mircea's ring buffer with both random insertion and low memory overhead, now that's some real algorithmic complication on C machine [16:58]
asciilifeform [16:58]
asciilifeform << lulzy and related. [17:00]
assbot The Fibonacci heap ruins my life ... ( ) [17:00]
* devthedev (~devthedev@unaffiliated/devthedev) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:02]
jurov you have to "walk" mempool for every tx regardless [17:04]
jurov to check for conflicts [17:04]
asciilifeform why? [17:05]
asciilifeform this is the miner's job [17:06]
asciilifeform a tx that spends an input that is not yet spent in an actual block, is valid. [17:06]
asciilifeform (assuming that it is validly signed, and violates no rule) [17:06]
jurov so i can generate N doublespends with high tx fee and you're happily gonna carryy them in mempool and propagate? [17:06]
mircea_popescu ^ [17:06]
mircea_popescu jurov yes. [17:06]
asciilifeform jurov: absolutely. [17:07]
asciilifeform how am i to know which one is 'double' [17:07]
mircea_popescu the notion that it works any other way is so fucktarfded i couldn't begin to explain it [17:07]
asciilifeform and which - the 'legit'. [17:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu has it. [17:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13110 @ 0.00055846 = 7.3214 BTC [-] {2} [17:07]
mircea_popescu and if one day a double jurov appears, your wife better fuck BOTH of you, and well, or else she gets beaten. [17:07]
mircea_popescu and by both, for EACH case once. so four times. [17:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35640 @ 0.00055829 = 19.8975 BTC [-] [17:08]
asciilifeform who has seen the film 'the prestige' ? [17:08]
jurov i have no words [17:09]
mircea_popescu i did not. [17:09]
asciilifeform it is kinda about this. [17:09]
asciilifeform and overall notbad. [17:09]
* mircea_popescu adding to list [17:09]
mircea_popescu i "saw" 6 films ion the space of an hour last night [17:09]
mircea_popescu "close and wipe this. how the fuck did it end up in ?" x6. [17:09]
asciilifeform l0l [17:10]
mircea_popescu "well it had kidman and malkovich in it" sorta answers. [17:10]
jurov and the rule is simple - the 'double' is the one with lower txfee. [17:10]
mircea_popescu jesus the shit people will act in. [17:10]
mircea_popescu jurov that's the end result, once proper ring buffer sorts by fee yes. [17:10]
asciilifeform jurov: aha [17:10]
jurov if there same and lower, jsut drop it [17:10]
mircea_popescu but it is absolutely not the relay's fucking job to attempt to otherwise "check" txns [17:10]
mircea_popescu "is it signed validly ? are the inputs in blocks ?" and that is IT. [17:11]
asciilifeform from miner's pov, that'd be a defective relay [17:11]
asciilifeform and is to be eschewed. [17:11]
mircea_popescu ^ [17:11]
asciilifeform it is really not so fucking hard to grasp the protocol [17:11]
asciilifeform (though a number of folks do a mighty fine job failing, somehow, to) [17:11]
mircea_popescu you mean to guess what the protocol should have been [17:12]
jurov the realy that allows to fillt is mempool by conflicting transactions is indeed defective [17:12]
jurov damn kdb [17:12]
mircea_popescu there is absolutely nothing wrong relaying multiple txn that spend the same inputs ; there is EVERYTHING wrong with the notion you shouldn't do this. [17:12]
asciilifeform jurov: beyond 'throw out the cheapo crapola', it is not relay's place to resolve the conflict. [17:13]
mircea_popescu certainly ANY relay that currently drops on the floor a VALIDLY SIGNED txn is broken. no possible argument here. [17:13]
mircea_popescu the job of relaying is - to relay. [17:13]
asciilifeform well, validly-signed but inputs-already-spent-and-this-is-in-a-block is noise. [17:14]
jurov so, i'll spend 1 btc million times with 0.1 fee, feed it to you and you'll be like "not my problem"? [17:14]
mircea_popescu the overarching design principle being that ALL the information deciding the treatment of a txn MUST BE ~COMPLETELY~ in the txn in question. [17:14]
mircea_popescu you may NOT have state. [17:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we have a permitted state - it is called the blockchain. [17:14]
asciilifeform as in, the actual blocks. [17:14]
mircea_popescu and the idiots that made a state machine out of the fucking relays are so stupid it's basically inhuman. [17:14]
jurov this is wankery. [17:14]
jurov and won't work in practice. [17:15]
mircea_popescu psssh. [17:15]
asciilifeform jurov: works great in practice. in your trb node. [17:15]
jurov my node does check for conflicts [17:15]
jurov that works great, too [17:16]
* Reydev ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:18]
jurov !up Reydev [17:18]
* assbot gives voice to Reydev [17:18]
asciilifeform jurov: checks for conflicts ?! [17:20]
asciilifeform and what does it reject ?? [17:20]
asciilifeform whatever comes second ?? [17:20]
jurov so far, yes [17:20]
asciilifeform verily this is lame. [17:21]
jurov letting memory to fill with turds isn't lame? [17:22]
jurov both are. [17:22]
asciilifeform it isn't a turd if it is valid. [17:23]
asciilifeform (well, it can be, if it falls below the specified fee/byte mark) [17:24]
jurov your memory together for all the conficted txs falls below the specified fee/byte mark, you can admit at least this is true [17:27]
asciilifeform jurov: the logical thing to do would be to resolve all conflicts by maximizing fee. [17:28]
asciilifeform the only logical thing. [17:28]
asciilifeform but 'seen first is The One' is asinine. [17:28]
jurov but ALL the conflicts have same $maxint fee [17:28]
jurov YES, first one, si asinine, lit's move on [17:28]
jurov i don't argue to keep current algo! [17:29]
jurov i just am asking ahy you give your memory so cheaply? [17:29]
asciilifeform the original thread was re: how the current protocol, which allows a tx to refer to unconfirmed inputs, is retarded. [17:30]
jurov and you reacted by putting forward no less retarded notion to keep everythign that has inputs in block [17:30]
asciilifeform while maximizing summed fee, aha [17:30]
asciilifeform what's the problem with that ? [17:31]
asciilifeform and yes, you sum over the non-conflicting tx. [17:31]
jurov but then you have to check for conflicts! [17:31]
trinque lol [17:32]
jurov am i dense or what's happening here [17:32]
asciilifeform you check ~when expelling~ from the pool [17:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> but 'seen first is The One' is asinine. << srsly. [17:32]
jurov either there's a state machine that considers other txen in mempool, or no conflict resolution, there's no third way [17:33]
mircea_popescu no conflict resolution. [17:33]
mircea_popescu it is not a relayer job. [17:33]
mircea_popescu dumbass doing the original ~prototype~ had nfi of design, ended up shoehorning everything in everything else [17:33]
mircea_popescu producing the equivalent of penises with a clitoral hood and cunts with a bit of penile foreskin and on and on. [17:33]
jurov no conflict resolution = free memory for attacker [17:34]
* airgapped ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:35]
jurov messing with your clitoris wont change it [17:35]
asciilifeform conflict resolution == free cpu for attacker. [17:35]
jurov how free? [17:36]
jurov they must make all these zillion conflicting signatures [17:37]
jurov and also loses txfee when one of these tx is mined [17:37]
jurov oh and actually, how do you check if enemy sends the same tx many times? [17:38]
jurov without even producing new sigs? [17:38]
asciilifeform he can make'em in O(1) [17:39]
asciilifeform you resolve in O(N^2). [17:39]
asciilifeform asymptotic death. [17:39]
jurov why O(N)? [17:39]
jurov *why not [17:39]
mircea_popescu jurov> no conflict resolution = free memory for attacker << you drop stuff under minfee. [17:40]
mircea_popescu jurov because you have to search omg. [17:41]
jurov mircea_popescu of course. please reread and think [17:41]
mircea_popescu EVEN if you build a tree - which you do not, chiefly because don't know how - you STILL lose out on the rebalancings [17:41]
mircea_popescu which you must do and he - not. [17:41]
jurov we don't have anything better than cartesian joins? [17:41]
jurov eh why do i strive here, like with NAT, inputs vs. addresses and maybe several other things, you will eventually come to terms with what i meant [17:43]
jurov after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot [17:44]
mircea_popescu well, for practicing speech if nothing else. [17:44]
mircea_popescu what do you think this is in reference to ? [17:44]
jurov i explained why NAT is stupid, like one way telephone that only accepts calls, you laughed at me and told you wouldn't want any other [17:45]
jurov *that only allows outgoing calls [17:45]
jurov then we had dicsussion where I was unable to explain why addresses aren't spent, but outputs are, same reult [17:46]
mircea_popescu specifically : " after several months of screaming STUPIDITY and listing NAT.ROUTERS and whatnot" << you propose i did what ? [17:47]
jurov why did you list NAT.ROUTERS? [17:47]
jurov "list" [17:47]
mircea_popescu i have no fucking idea, it's a random string. it certainly didn't have some sort of intention, and i was certainly not thinking of you. [17:48]
mircea_popescu i think i had moneys-something in there for a while also, or whatever. [17:48]
mircea_popescu but this aside. so you said nat routers are stupid and i said i'm happy with them and this evnetually means i came to terms to what, using the jurov two way router ? or what ? [17:48]
* assbot removes voice from Reydev [17:49]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ? [17:49]
jurov overall, i feel i can't explain myself well to you no matter what i try [17:49]
mircea_popescu in all cases when what you're trying to explain makes no sense or generally ? [17:50]
jurov in many cases. then alf or someone other explains again and you get it [17:50]
mircea_popescu must be frustrating. well, generally a good starting point of understanding a problem is, making a list of observed cases. [17:52]
mircea_popescu but the important part there is making the complete list, like with any other scientific approach. [17:52]
jurov yes this needs some examples and i don't have it [17:52]
mircea_popescu in the interim, [17:52]
assbot ... ( ) [17:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i suppose his idea is, in plainer english, that in principle fee is no deterrent, because if he makes 1mn txn that are all valid but spend the same inputs, only one can be eventgually mined and so he can create as many txn as he wants for you to relay and only pay the fee once, eventually. whereas only keeping the first seen one protects from this. [17:58]
mircea_popescu how this is supposed to be an argument against sane design i have no idea, but whatevs, "kludge works for me" is how we get kludges ever since kludge one. [17:59]
* airgapped has quit (Quit: leaving) [18:00]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo what's the cannonical article re pres. bahamas, witgh the pic ? the asean one ? << yes [18:06]
mircea_popescu plox to change ref then [18:07]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [18:07]
asciilifeform << i betcha that mircea_popescu could make an argument for nat! perhaps involving greek slavegurlz who can only speak outside the households through master's lips, or the like. [18:08]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 20:46:43; jurov: why did you list NAT.ROUTERS? [18:08]
mircea_popescu see also first paragraph of [18:09]
assbot Please stop using DNS already, and other considerations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:09]
mircea_popescu the current abomination was never intended re : internet. [18:09]
mircea_popescu flatware etatist bullshit. [18:09]
asciilifeform aha. [18:09]
asciilifeform and it comes back to the tx thing like this: eventually we learn who shat out the million crud tx. [18:10]
asciilifeform and stop peering with him. [18:10]
asciilifeform and then he has to beg, to use the network at all. [18:11]
asciilifeform the net-as-publictoilet era will end. [18:11]
asciilifeform and good fucking riddance. [18:11]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [18:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's no such actual thing as flatgraph - only star topology with thinly disguised star. [18:13]
mircea_popescu the net-as-publictoilet era will e << and this is exactly the situation we have now, except we don't like the miners. [18:13]
asciilifeform aha. [18:14]
mircea_popescu the expectation you'll fix broken protocol sociall is inept. [18:14]
mircea_popescu fix the protocol. [18:14]
asciilifeform the ancient and inevitable pill for such situations is called: [18:14]
asciilifeform war. [18:14]
mircea_popescu war is the thing that happens when idiots fucked up the design. [18:15]
asciilifeform aha. [18:15]
mircea_popescu anyway, back to the issue. having nodes discard dupes is in principle stupid ; having nodes discard dupes on a first-seen basis is entirely warantless ; trying to run an implementation of this design will run into problems. [18:16]
asciilifeform my point was, minertards won't go willingly into the good night. [18:16]
mircea_popescu the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance. [18:17]
mircea_popescu which is why bitcoin protocol discussions are so complex, and the whole thing so hard : because omfg, the complexity. you don't even rightly know where the problem comes from really, in the rat's nest. [18:17]
asciilifeform (and the protocol actually selects for idiots, smart folks don't mine) [18:17]
asciilifeform << waiwut?? [18:18]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 21:16:20; mircea_popescu: the problem ~MAY~ be that bitcoin transactions are dupe-able in the first place, for instance. [18:18]
asciilifeform what's this mean [18:19]
mircea_popescu yes, what ? [18:19]
mircea_popescu for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one way. [18:20]
asciilifeform bitstrings are 'dupable' by nature, bitcoin's whole purpose is to hack around this, to the extent physically possible, like a ship is a hack around the sea [18:20]
mircea_popescu they don't have to be. [18:20]
asciilifeform it still isn't '1 way' - sig nonce, timestamp, scriptolade... [18:21]
mircea_popescu (yes i'm aware that the above example allows no payments other than in multiples of 50 btc for a while, then multiples of 25, and EVENTUALLY in sasothis. MIND YOU that this is a feature and what you are using now a bug - da fuck do you do when the coinbase is split up in all the satoshis it could be ? ha ? oh, "works for you as it is" ? ty.) [18:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform none of that. [18:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00055936 = 3.524 BTC [+] [18:22]
asciilifeform i like unitary coinz. [18:22]
mircea_popescu of course you do. [18:22]
mircea_popescu because unlike shitforbrainsatosi stuff, they make sense. [18:22]
asciilifeform my useless unpublished 'bitcoin' circa 07 - had. [18:23]
asciilifeform unitaries. [18:23]
asciilifeform like castle title. [18:24]
mircea_popescu i just put that there to generally and pars pro toto show that when i say bitcoin is a steaming pile of shit, and broadly an undesigned kludge i mean very specific things. [18:24]
mircea_popescu and derpy arguments "won" with me over the particular brokedness of the prototype implementation are roughly the same value and consistency as used toiletpaper. [18:24]
asciilifeform i suspect that we all here know which. [18:25]
mircea_popescu im not even sure I know which! there's too many. and the bitch with things like these is you always forget one. [18:25]
mircea_popescu heck, i usually forget two. [18:25]
asciilifeform bitcoin is a desperate wartime wunderwaffen. [18:25]
deedbot- [Qntra] Hold on to your butts – Argentina is going on sale. - [18:26]
mircea_popescu o hey! check me out i'm a qntra star! [18:26]
BingoBoingo Seriously [18:28]
* BingoBoingo wonders how hot a bride one can acquire from Argentina in 12 months by bartering a 40 foot container of nyger seed [18:29]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i dun think they even ~make~ non-hot gurlz in ar [18:30]
asciilifeform go, see. [18:31]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Do two or three brides for a container of thistle seed is possibru? [18:31]
mircea_popescu if you're not picky about tall, you can prolly have brides for the feeding. [18:31]
mircea_popescu go to teh provinces. [18:32]
mircea_popescu they don't make ~fat~ gurlz here. but they do make shorties. [18:32]
BingoBoingo short's fine [18:34]
* dbclk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:35]
* dbclk (~dbclk@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:35]
shinohai Just realized I had a misspelling in that dpaste I sent BingoBoingo [18:37]
asciilifeform i have nfi whether they make good pets tho [18:37]
shinohai actually, two [18:37]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Then just resubmit, haven't opened it yet. [18:39]
shinohai ok one moment [18:41]
shinohai BingoBoingo: [18:44]
assbot dpaste: 3PSTK7V ... ( ) [18:44]
asciilifeform << btw this doesn't cure doublespends. [18:52]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 21:19:30; mircea_popescu: for instance (and plox, before we run off with it - example only!) : if every tx was defined as "only 1 input - only 1 output" and if you wanted to make a larger payment youy'd have to make MULTIPLE txn, then a) the protocol would actually make a lot more sense, atomicity-wise and b) you wouldn't have the problems jurov describes. because pay x to y with fee z would exist EXACTLY one [18:52]
asciilifeform can still transmit 'x -> y' and 'x -> q' [18:52]
asciilifeform where y != q [18:55]
asciilifeform but verily, s put the turingcompleteness in the ONE place it least belonged, the tx processor. [18:57]
asciilifeform rabid idiocy. [18:57]
asciilifeform as we have it, comparing 2 tx is.. undecidable. [18:59]
* PeterL has quit (Quit: Leaving) [19:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform as i said, just example. [19:07]
asciilifeform aha [19:08]
mircea_popescu at least on this design the problem is sanely approacheable - make address creation REASONABLY expensive, for SANE, DEFINED, PROTOCOL reasons. [19:08]
asciilifeform it solves malleability- but not doubles [19:08]
mircea_popescu not "why is it chained liek so ?" "uhhhh... [spittle dribbling]" as is currently the case. [19:09]
mircea_popescu so that someone asking for a payment to address x already has skin in the game - whatever it cost him to make the address. [19:10]
asciilifeform pow to make addr? [19:10]
mircea_popescu why not ? [19:10]
asciilifeform interesting idea [19:11]
mircea_popescu i'm just saying - if you're actually designing, you DESIGN. [19:11]
mircea_popescu if shit just falls on the ground and you try to pretend it's art, on the other hand... [19:11]
asciilifeform aha. my design, for instance, had tx-as-integer [19:11]
asciilifeform addr - prime [19:11]
* Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [19:12]
asciilifeform tx-making - modular exp. [19:12]
asciilifeform you can sorta guess the rest. [19:12]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Rewrite with an emphasis on how stupid everyone involved in this has to be for this shit to have even been uttered. [19:12]
shinohai kk [19:13]
hanbot i did not. << you saw it, you didn't like it [19:13]
mircea_popescu which one was this ?! [19:14]
hanbot you know, where they got david bowie to play tesla. [19:14]
asciilifeform it. [19:14]
mircea_popescu oh the one with blondy whats her face ? [19:14]
hanbot buncha sepia-toned stage magician stuffs with typical christopher nolan over-foreboding. [19:15]
asciilifeform mentioned re: duplicates. [19:15]
hanbot and yeah, her. [19:15]
BingoBoingo shinohai: It's a lulzy thing, but it needs more of a hook [19:15]
mircea_popescu yeah yeah, wanna-be the superimaginarium/illusionist except with very bad historic research. [19:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it was so miserable i even deleted it from ram. [19:16]
mircea_popescu doublespent! [19:16]
asciilifeform imaginarium rocked. [19:16]
mircea_popescu hard to beat. [19:16]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Mebbe bring an actual pathogen into the discussion so as to contrast this herpajerk [19:16]
shinohai I warned you I was a very green journalist. [19:16]
BingoBoingo I know that's why now you gotta practiced. [19:17]
BingoBoingo Since you submitted this I expect you to resumbit better this. [19:17]
* BingoBoingo still awaits mp's Trilema review of the Verhoeven masterpiece Robocop [19:18]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:5c:711e:cb8e:1cb3) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:19]
mircea_popescu i loved that when i was... i dunno, 9 ? [19:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38980 @ 0.00055831 = 21.7629 BTC [-] {2} [19:20]
BingoBoingo But did you write it up on Trilema when you were 9? [19:24]
mircea_popescu nope. which may well mean it missed its chance [19:25]
BingoBoingo Shame, the #b-a canon it poorer for it. [19:25]
mircea_popescu you write it! you got a blog neh ? [19:26]
BingoBoingo Ah, but that would be the lesser Bingo review of Robocop. What do you think authors are, fungible? [19:29]
shinohai Shit bbib I need a drink. [19:32]
asciilifeform;a=log << check out the claptrap. [19:35]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/log ... ( ) [19:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: would be interesting if a valid addr could only come to exist with a coinbase formation ! [19:41]
asciilifeform great plebespray. [19:42]
asciilifeform perhaps i had everything backwards.. possibly, being able to transact ~without~ mining, is the bug. not mining... [19:46]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [19:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68500 @ 0.00055791 = 38.2168 BTC [-] {5} [19:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00055747 = 12.7382 BTC [-] [19:49]
asciilifeform;a=commit;h=28e2513721ff0cec920564d4087f3600cce8672e << for fucks sake [19:51]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( ) [19:51]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: now that's a thought-provoker. [19:58]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:5c:711e:cb8e:1cb3) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:02]
asciilifeform ~nobody wants to admit, but ~the~ mega-problem of bitcoin is... that it is FAR too accessible. [20:02]
trinque This feature is independent of --use-tor and automagically uses Tor if available. << wahahahahaha [20:02]
asciilifeform trinque: and he checks for it by running hardcoded shellout... [20:03]
AaronvanW adlai aegis ahmed_ Aleph0 alnit Alopex alphonse23_ amiller Apocalyptic artifexd asciilifeform assbot Azelphur [20:04]
trinque who can discern malicious actor from useful idiot in this sea of shit [20:05]
mircea_popescu perhaps i had everything backwards << which is exactly my metapoint here. for as long as such can occur, it is CLEAR we don't have the perimeter of this thing yet. [20:05]
asciilifeform quite. [20:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> ~nobody wants to admit << nobody wants to admit except for the guy that's been saying it for years. yeh! [20:06]
asciilifeform but imho i found the '2nd law of thermo' in re bitcoin- the nothing-for-showing-up principle. [20:06]
mircea_popescu may the historians long name you for it. [20:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha 1 guy [20:07]
asciilifeform l0l [20:07]
asciilifeform trinque: what is the point of attempting this distinction? [20:08]
asciilifeform !s wyatt dog [20:08]
assbot 4 results for 'wyatt dog' : [20:08]
mircea_popescu "This patch also fixes a memory leak of opt.keyserver en passant." << first rule of koch, drepper, weiner & all nsa goons : ALWAYS bundle new vulns with memory leak fixes etc. [20:09]
trinque most people are and have always been followers; it is the leaders who are the problem [20:09]
mircea_popescu "en passant" indeed. [20:09]
asciilifeform [20:09]
assbot Logged on 10-02-2015 03:25:08; mircea_popescu: this is like asking wyatt earp "how do you distinguish between the f brothers and stray dog" [20:09]
mircea_popescu trinque no, this is certainly malicious to the hilt. [20:09]
asciilifeform how else. [20:09]
shinohai <<< top kek [20:09]
mircea_popescu nobody ever did or ever would do this combo except deliberately and for this reason. [20:09]
assbot SegWit forked unexpectedly on testnet - The Bitcoin Forum ... ( ) [20:09]
mircea_popescu lol shinohai [20:09]
mircea_popescu feel free to qntra, all the lulz. [20:10]
asciilifeform anyway i have a fat bag of this horror [20:10]
asciilifeform dug for ages. [20:10]
asciilifeform thoroughly revolting. [20:10]
trinque mircea_popescu: I see the malice in the act, but am commenting on the pervasiveness of propaganda such that malicious acts can be projected through many obedient, subservient nodes [20:11]
mircea_popescu aha [20:11]
asciilifeform e.g., usb (!!!) invocations [20:12]
asciilifeform read, weep [20:12]
asciilifeform how long, i wonder, has koch been dead. [20:14]
* justanotheruser (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:16]
asciilifeform;a=commitdiff;h=9c34711539fc2c34aea8da0fd49ae6aa28991518;hp=9f4f77bc4b8bf17010796fe3c2d23024047154ea [20:23]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/commitdiff ... ( ) [20:23]
asciilifeform ^ run moar dns [20:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00055747 = 6.6896 BTC [-] {2} [20:28]
asciilifeform;a=commit;h=7735bbe539af35ce16e270946d5ae798c5989d6e [20:30]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( ) [20:30]
asciilifeform 'Remove gethostbyname hack; [20:31]
asciilifeform we require getaddrinfo anyway.' [20:31]
asciilifeform ( he took it out in;a=commit;h=927f34603d942868af6a7bd0f347681bbad76a94 --- and then put back !! ) [20:32]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( ) [20:32]
asciilifeform or hm. [20:32]
asciilifeform;a=commit;h=6fafda979df8e7e117f8e6929bcce89513a6e746 << refuses to BUILD if dns is not available. [20:33]
assbot Git - gnupg.git/commit ... ( ) [20:33]
asciilifeform 'For dirmngr I made liberal use of getaddrinfo w/o [20:33]
asciilifeform without checking. Just in case someone tries to build on an old [20:34]
asciilifeform platform we now error our with a suitable #error.' [20:34]
mircea_popescu you know... we aren't using this shit for a [number of] reasons. [20:35]
asciilifeform well yeah [20:35]
asciilifeform but i can't fathom WHY he did it [20:35]
asciilifeform or what, was impaled ? [20:35]
mircea_popescu why. cuz he's an evil goatfucker. [20:36]
asciilifeform was born one ? [20:37]
asciilifeform if so, why did he write gpg to begin with, as disinfo ? [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00055742 = 24.2901 BTC [-] {4} [20:37]
mircea_popescu you understand how virulence works in pathogens ? [20:39]
asciilifeform i think so. [20:39]
asciilifeform e.g., ebola burnout. [20:40]
mircea_popescu he's a fuycking spirochete. does useful shit until govt shows up. [20:40]
mircea_popescu one can have zona zooster by the pail in the system, nothing happens [20:42]
mircea_popescu then one day you eat the wrong end of a lovage leaf and holy shit you're covered in hives. [20:42]
asciilifeform is this a p450 thing ? [20:43]
asciilifeform i could've sworn we had a thread. [20:43]
BingoBoingo !s CYP450 [20:43]
assbot 1 results for 'CYP450' : [20:43]
BingoBoingo !s CYP 450 [20:44]
assbot 4 results for 'CYP 450' : [20:44]
danielpbarron first! [21:06]
* Duffer_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:11]
* Duffer1 has quit (Quit: later) [21:15]
* Duffer_ has quit (Client Quit) [21:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055735 = 11.3142 BTC [-] {2} [21:21]
* SuchWow has quit (Quit: Stop looking at my quit message) [21:40]
* SuchWow (~SuchWow@dogecoin/staff-emeritus/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:44]
danielpbarron this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner! I got a finished article in the hopper, and a stub still to be fleshed out. [21:50]
danielpbarron started with the impulse to post something on twatter, pasted it into a draft instead, and expanded from there. [21:51]
shinohai I am trying your drink recipe tonight danielpbarron I think I got everything I needed. [21:53]
danielpbarron neato [21:55]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron> this having a blog thing is pretty sweet; wish I started it sooner! << HA! [21:58]
shinohai I was at the liquor store and was like "Hey danielpbarron made a blog post about some drink today, lemme try that!" [21:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00055723 = 10.0859 BTC [-] {3} [22:06]
* AaronvanW_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:16]
* AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [22:20]
* felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:32]
shinohai Disney, mircea_popescu style: [22:35]
assbot ... ( ) [22:35]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [22:46]
adlai ;;later tell BingoBoingo [22:46]
gribble The operation succeeded. [22:46]
assbot ... ( ) [22:46]
adlai << they were using incompatible versions on the same network... what can be expected [22:49]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 23:08:49; shinohai: <<< top kek [22:49]
shinohai Yeah upon further investigation I decided it was a non-event. [22:49]
adlai the "double spend" is quite a oui-event, even if it was caused by pessimal interaction with eg sturles's node [22:51]
* AaronvanW_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [22:52]
shinohai This shit is fucking delicious danielpbarron [23:00]
shinohai I am guaranteed kinky sex tonight when gf gets here and tastes it. [23:00]
adlai danielpbarron: congratulations on getting the round tuit! [23:03]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [23:08]
danielpbarron ty ty [23:17]
* danielpbarron is now trying his first attempt at a sort-of cantarina (sort-of because apparently it's supposed to have club soda, although I'm not sure if that's a requirement, or if a side-effect of most bars not having fresh grapefruit and use a grapefruit flavored soda instead) [23:18]
danielpbarron and to my surprise the quarter orange i decided to go with is not overpowered by the whole grapefruit or the half lime/lemon [23:19]
danielpbarron heh, also tonight i learned that you do not want to squeeze a kiwi, but I have not yet ruled out muddling [23:20]
shinohai lol [23:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00055706 = 17.6031 BTC [-] {3} [23:27]
* Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:44]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu broadcast sent ! [23:45]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:45]
asciilifeform meanwhile, [23:46]
assbot Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( ) [23:46]
asciilifeform what a high-ranking reich officer! [23:46]
asciilifeform visits my obscure corner of the world. [23:46]
asciilifeform supposing that it was him (the man doesn't pgp.) [23:46]
danielpbarron contradiction! only men pgp [23:48]
adlai fallacy! lack of female pgp speakers does not imply absence of male imbeciles [23:50]
asciilifeform adlai: hey they aren't all extinct! there is still hanbot and diana_coman [23:50]
* Reydev ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:51]
adlai fallacies are usable on false axioms, too [23:51]
asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo megatonne of crapple trial crapolade on cryptome, if you still care [23:54]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:54]
* Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [23:55]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.