Forum logs for 01 Apr 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
ebriusinanis yeah well at least you learned wiping first [00:00]
nubbins` can't swipe without wipe [00:04]
nubbins` dat unsolicited pm [00:07]
ebriusinanis shh [00:07]
mod6 asciilifeform: any luck with that error? [00:18]
* assbot removes voice from ebriusinanis [00:21]
nubbins` o-o-o-o-o! [00:24]
nubbins` now i see [00:24]
nubbins` !up ebriusinanis [00:24]
* assbot gives voice to ebriusinanis [00:24]
BingoBoingo gigavps: whoa, my latin reads like "hes bruisin anus" [00:44]
BingoBoingo such reality [00:44]
BingoBoingo here i thought i was a poem [00:44]
lobbes kakobrekla: aha, thanks for the lulz. I was thoroughly confused for a second ;/ [00:48]
ebriusinanis ^ [00:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00025061 = 12.5054 BTC [+] [00:57]
nubbins` hanbot try: emerge --sync; emerge -avuND world [01:00]
nubbins` then try again? [01:00]
nubbins` apparently gentoo works a lot better when all your packages are up to date. this is about where my advice ends, i've been using it for a whole three days now ;p [01:12]
* nubbins` sighs, attempts 3rd cross-toolchain build of the day [01:21]
nubbins` now with more options enabled (tm) [01:22]
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trinque hanbot: paste fart emitted from emerge [01:34]
trinque er nvm [01:34]
trinque looks like it's working [01:34]
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BingoBoingo !s faust [01:43]
assbot 1 results for 'faust' : [01:43]
trinque among friends of mine, we refer to gentoo as "gentoo quest" and for good reason [01:46]
trinque not so much an OS as a linux RPG [01:46]
trinque teaches you a lot [01:46]
BingoBoingo trinque: Ever play with pre-v10 slowaris? [01:46]
trinque BingoBoingo: not at all; fun in the same ways? [01:47]
BingoBoingo trinque: Best contrast I can find to OpenBSD. Gentoo is pure (theoretical)Linus-linux. Slowaris and OpenBSD are both... different [01:48]
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trinque BingoBoingo: this I think is the saddest thing about fuck-ups like systemd, "cram everything into one program" is not novel. I wouldn't mind trying unix-like systems which *actually* tried something (novelly) different [01:51]
BingoBoingo trinque: Seriously. Busybox is boring. Complete dominion over memory functions as Obsd does, cool [01:52]
asciilifeform hanbot: no, they can't be ignored [01:56]
asciilifeform ... it's very pleasant to watch it chew without complaining << half the addiction potential of gentoo right there [01:57]
asciilifeform like watching a garden grow, if you could do so in real time [01:58]
asciilifeform ... Busybox is boring. << it wasn't built to be interesting, but to take up the least space possible while still doing, approximately, the job. [01:58]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades [01:59]
asciilifeform essentially cut-down versions of all the customary userland utils but rolled into one binary, which then gets called from tiny scripts each of which pretends to be, e.g., 'top' or 'ls' [01:59]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it makes for a largely usable box. boot up 'turdel', try it. [01:59]
* BingoBoingo is short on undedicated boxes of purpose and needs to start renting VPS's or hope BTC host starts [02:00]
asciilifeform did you ever even use all the possible flags for 'less' anyway. [02:00]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I suck at both more and less [02:01]
trinque the distinction between separate programs and well-separated functions isn't a huge one [02:01]
trinque busybox fucks up not by "doing all the things" but by intertangling all the things [02:01]
trinque *could fuck up [02:02]
asciilifeform obligatory classic: [02:02]
assbot Various implementations of the 'cat' command, for comparison. ... ( ) [02:02]
trinque so as long as the commands it's providing aren't insanely tangled, no big deal [02:02]
asciilifeform 'busybox' is closer to the smaller incarnations [02:02]
trinque I think some might look at it and compare it to the systemd situation [02:02]
trinque where one codebase is providing a ton of functionality [02:02]
asciilifeform trinque: the only possible point of comparison is the swiss army knife aspect [02:03]
trinque yep, totally appropriate tool in an appropriate situation [02:03]
asciilifeform but these aren't processes crammed into one box [02:03]
asciilifeform these are fucking utils [02:03]
asciilifeform that run in shots [02:03]
BingoBoingo Alpine Linux looks interesting, but... before I return to linux I want to spend more time in weirdix full time [02:04]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: thing is, if you understand how to use 'buildroot' you no longer need distros [02:04]
asciilifeform (though i do like 'portage' more than hand-waltzing every proggy. if only marginally.) [02:05]
asciilifeform who the hell was ebriusinanis anyway? [02:06]
asciilifeform asks quite a few questions for a random fella. [02:06]
BingoBoingo who the hell was ebriusinanis anyway? << Vexual, especially coherent tonight [02:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: how you know? did he sign ? [02:07]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: PM behavior pattern. Not strongest authentication, kinda suspicious, but psych profile almost checks [02:07]
BingoBoingo !up ebriusinanis [02:08]
* assbot gives voice to ebriusinanis [02:08]
asciilifeform incidentally, i keep waiting for 'deceased' folks like pankkake or moiety to 'return from the grave' (after ninjasp4mz0r buys their keys for xxx btc) [02:08]
ebriusinanis its my katin name [02:08]
ebriusinanis *latin [02:08]
BingoBoingo incidentally, i keep waiting for 'deceased' folks like pankkake or moiety to 'return from the grave' (after ninjasp4mz0r buys their keys for xxx btc) << I'm not sure moiety isn't undead and normant. [02:09]
ebriusinanis pankakke would like these logs [02:10]
BingoBoingo pankakke is weird. [02:10]
BingoBoingo pankakke knows what his keys are worth and that is a lot [02:11]
ebriusinanis fail rages him [02:11]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: only worth, hypothetically, in the hands of a skilled operative [02:11]
asciilifeform who could convincingly (let's dream) pretend to be a 'prodigal son' [02:12]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The problem with pankakke keys is faking pankakke would be expensive [02:12]
asciilifeform cheaper if you can pay the original to do it [02:12]
BingoBoingo So HBO scientology doc, not so bad. Jason Beghe's parts are the best. [02:15]
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BingoBoingo !up felipelalli [02:27]
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Chillum This reminds me of being a kid: [02:33]
assbot ... ( ) [02:33]
felipelalli !gettrust asteric [02:35]
assbot asteric is not registered in WoT. [02:35]
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mircea_popescu "The web site is real. It was put up by my wife (JeanW on here now). To answer some questions posted above: I traded on The prosecutor in the case claims I needed a business money transmittal license to do that. Instead of just notifying me that they though I might need a license they have charged me with a felony which could mean up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. [02:44]
mircea_popescu Because I had to hire TWO law firms, one for the criminal case and another one for the civil forfeiture case, so far, defending myself against the charge of not having a license in order to trade on localbitcoins has cost me almost $200,000. This is a large chunk of our retirement fund and our daughters college fund. This does not count the property (Bitcoins, cash, etc.) I may have to forfeit in civil forfeiture." [02:44]
mircea_popescu born in the usa... he's fucked... born in the usa... [02:44]
BingoBoingo !up ebriusinanis [02:45]
* assbot gives voice to ebriusinanis [02:45]
mircea_popescu hopefully he gets his guts together and flies another plane into another usg office. [02:45]
mircea_popescu pretty much the only avenue remaining for elder us folk. [02:46]
BingoBoingo For the truly old there's still caverject and official's daughters [02:49]
felipelalli if this is true, this is actually sad. :/ [02:54]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: I dunno caverject contains some serious trade offs in its method of administration [02:54]
ebriusinanis london calling [02:55]
assbot Cadbury Gorilla Drummer Drums To Phil Collins on Vimeo ... ( ) [02:55]
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cazalla will deedbot qntra march once it comes back otherwise [03:00]
assbot Qntra (S.QNTR) March 2015 Statement | ... ( ) [03:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87300 @ 0.00024739 = 21.5971 BTC [-] [03:01]
scoopbot New post on by cazalla: [03:03]
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ebriusinanis poso eh good luck with thqat shit [03:09]
ebriusinanis [03:13]
assbot Who the Cap Fit - BOB MARLEY - YouTube ... ( ) [03:13]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo lmao antonoderp and matonis going to aussie striker bitbillions "convention" !? [03:17]
mircea_popescu ahahaha [03:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: As far as I know so far [03:17]
mircea_popescu top kek. [03:18]
hanbot asciilifeform> hanbot: no, they can't be ignored << ah okay. noted! [03:19]
mircea_popescu << quite. [03:19]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 02:01:00; mod6: someone should publish a "how-to-build-non-derp-gentoo" receipe [03:19]
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mircea_popescu << theres lots and lots and lots of wars going on in the rogue state. [03:28]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 02:50:05; BingoBoingo: List has some serious lulz though, like the entire fucking state of Minnesota at all levels being on the list [03:28]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I can't even keep the local ones straight [03:29]
BingoBoingo << More Schweich fallout. His closes assistant "offed himself" nao [03:31]
assbot ... ( ) [03:31]
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trinque cazalla: ^ dunno why it's dying, so I'm just going to stick it on a 24hr cron restart for now [03:34]
trinque !up deedbot- [03:34]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [03:34]
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BingoBoingo Also... The NY jews that raised Fisher lost US chess to St Louis [03:35]
assbot ... ( ) [03:35]
cazalla deedbot-: [03:38]
assbot dpaste: 3EAJT88 ... ( ) [03:38]
trinque cazalla: give it the txt version; that's an html page [03:38]
trinque deedbot-: [03:38]
assbot ... ( ) [03:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95100 @ 0.00024854 = 23.6362 BTC [+] [03:39]
trinque wake up ya bastard [03:39]
trinque deedbot-: [03:40]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [03:40]
assbot ... ( ) [03:41]
trinque cazalla: there ya go; had to kick it from both sides [03:41]
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BingoBoingo ;;seen brendafdez [03:53]
gribble brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering. [03:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21283 @ 0.00024854 = 5.2897 BTC [+] [04:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108200 @ 0.00024786 = 26.8185 BTC [-] {3} [05:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25950 @ 0.00025027 = 6.4945 BTC [+] [05:59]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.01467997 = 1.468 BTC [+] [06:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73000 @ 0.00024732 = 18.0544 BTC [-] [06:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92698 @ 0.00024968 = 23.1448 BTC [+] {2} [07:05]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [16:56]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [16:56]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [16:56]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [16:56]
Usage: QUERY [-nofocus] , opens up a new privmsg window to someone [16:56]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [16:57]
mircea_popescu << "usg employee agrees to testify in court that the usg owns an amount of bitcoin that the usg wishes to be known it owns." [17:00]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 12:16:22; assbot: In a plea bargain, former DEA agent agrees to return 665,950 BTC stolen from MtGOX in 2013 : Bitcoin ... ( ) [17:01]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: 4/1 [17:01]
mircea_popescu hey, at least after calling out their usms scam, they're now forced to put dea agents "in prison" to try and certify ownership over imaginary stakes of btc. [17:01]
mircea_popescu still doesn't do as much as deedbot'd do. [17:01]
mircea_popescu ascii_field yeah, only fo real. [17:02]
ascii_field i'll believe if it remains 'real' tomorrow. [17:03]
mircea_popescu << i dun follow this logic ? [17:03]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 12:32:18; nubbins`: protip: if you use a single-cup coffee maker, you might as well get rid of all the garbage cans in your house and just start throwing trash out your windows [17:03]
nubbins` mountains of plastic [17:03]
mircea_popescu do you mean one of those $20 a pop coffee makers with about half liter of carafe ? [17:03]
nubbins` if you cared anything about, say, not making these: you wouldn't use a keurig in the first place [17:03]
nubbins` the pod ones [17:04]
lobbes I never understood those, either. Even if you want one cup of coffee.. just use one cup of water [17:04]
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mircea_popescu o that stuff. i don't know anyone that uses it o.O [17:05]
mircea_popescu i guess i don't date widely enough in the aging hipster crowd. [17:05]
ascii_field they are used by folks too lazy to wash machine or measure, grind the beans [17:05]
nubbins` yeah, i obv don't carry the numbers in long-term storage, but they're incredibly pervasive and just as wasteful [17:05]
ascii_field the machine sorta does for coffee what the brass shell did for the rifle [17:05]
BingoBoingo do you mean one of those $20 a pop coffee makers with about half liter of carafe ? << In usia measuring the coffee grounds to use one of those became "Too Hard"(TM) hence now people buy grounds in pre measured plastic cartridges [17:05]
nubbins` then the idea of a user-refillable pod came about [17:06]
mircea_popescu dude who cares, just fill the filter. [17:06]
BingoBoingo ^ [17:06]
nubbins` now the new coffee machines have DRM [17:06]
nubbins` :0 [17:06]
mircea_popescu lmao [17:06]
nubbins` srs [17:06]
BingoBoingo They are too lazy, this is what Bush and Obama did [17:06]
mircea_popescu what "rights" ? [17:06]
nubbins` the right to only pour hot water through authorized plastic widgets [17:06]
mircea_popescu ... [17:07]
nubbins` right? [17:07]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: nubbins` is not making this up. i have seen this machine. [17:07]
nubbins` mircea_popescu i seriously do not know why anyone thinks one of these machines is easier or tastier than a simple pour-over [17:07]
ascii_field nubbins`: easier because don't have to wash. [17:07]
mircea_popescu there's just no way any government can be organised to deliver the sort of humiliating, depersonalising, invasive experience the us folk have come to expect. [17:07]
mircea_popescu the only way for them to get what they want is private initiative. [17:07]
mircea_popescu of like, the mongols. [17:07]
nubbins` ;;google filthy keurig water tank [17:08]
gribble Keurigs Harbor Mold, Bacteria, and Algae: ; How to Clean (Eliminate Mold in Water Reservoir) and Care for a ...: ; How to Clean Your Keurig - A Few Short Cuts: [17:08]
nubbins` "don't have to wash" 8) [17:08]
mircea_popescu i think if isis took over say pennsylvania, and forced all sorts of bizarro stuff upon the citizenry, there'd finally be a huge sigh of satisfied submission. [17:08]
nubbins` lel snopes! [17:08]
mircea_popescu this nickle and dime "we'll poke at your asshole a little if you go to an airport" thing isn't cutting it. [17:08]
nubbins` one result of the plastification of the world is that everything's shaped to harbour mold now [17:09]
mircea_popescu mold is your friend. [17:10]
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mircea_popescu (also, it's not just the shape. plastics are pretty much ideal substrate for microorganisms) [17:10]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66100 @ 0.00025101 = 16.5918 BTC [+] [17:11]
BingoBoingo !up [17:11]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_field [17:11]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:11]
nubbins` yeah. [17:11]
ascii_field ben_vulpes et al: so i fix the idiot integer bugs (despite which this apparently built on various folks' machines) - and now [17:12]
assbot ... ( ) [17:12]
nubbins` wow, a guy just sent me a photograph of a pgp-signed custody document, with a piece of paper over his personal info, saying "this should be enough, preferably you don't need to know the other 19 coin addresses" [17:12]
nubbins` :0 [17:12]
mircea_popescu re " warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking" ascii_field wtf is that shit !? [17:13]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: the result of attempting to build the latest static 0.5.3 on my boxes. [17:13]
mircea_popescu do i misunderstand what statically linked means ? [17:13]
mircea_popescu nubbins` enough fore what ? [17:13]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: after fixing a number of typedef bugs which, going BY THE FUCKING BOOK OF CPP ought to prevent the thing from building ANYWHERE [17:14]
nubbins` enough for me to verify that there exists a piece of paper with a bunch of pgp shit on it that i can't do anything with [17:14]
mircea_popescu ascii_field so wtf is this ?! [17:14]
* assbot gives voice to marteen [17:14]
nubbins` "this heavily redacted version of a pgp-signed document should be enough" [17:14]
mircea_popescu nubbins` no i get that part, but why is some derp proving stuff to you and what sutff ? you running kyc nao ? [17:15]
nubbins` naw i wanna buy a casascius coin from him [17:15]
mircea_popescu oh oh [17:15]
nubbins` and i want him to prove he's the first owner [17:15]
mircea_popescu yeah toitally. should be enough o.O [17:15]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: to make long story short, therealbitcoin's release does not build on any of my boxes. [17:15]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: after discovering and eliminating several of the reasons for this, i discover a new one. [17:16]
mircea_popescu that's one thing. the other thing is, what the fuck do you mean "x in statically linked application requires material from gcc used at the time" [17:16]
mircea_popescu this is the exact opposite of what statically linekd means. [17:16]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: as you probably suspected, static linking as such is broken on extant systems. [17:16]
mircea_popescu well this'd be a fucking problem. [17:17]
ascii_field no one has used it for much of anything long enough, apparently. [17:17]
ascii_field allowed to 'rust'. [17:17]
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mircea_popescu because now we don't know if it opesn't build because of it or because of you [17:17]
mircea_popescu and for crying out loud. [17:17]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: my tests consisted of two gentoo boxes, one 'old and grey', the other built in october. [17:17]
mircea_popescu and the failed static linking happens on both ? [17:18]
ascii_field aha [17:18]
ascii_field ditto the integer errors [17:18]
ascii_field (which result from my gcc NOT going behind my back and inserting stdint exactly where wanted, the way everyone else's apparently does) [17:18]
mircea_popescu is there some obscuritas in tenebrae switch or something needed on gcc when REALLY statically linking ? [17:18]
thestringpuller dr. ascii_field do you hate python? [17:19]
ascii_field has any of you lot checked to see that the executable resulting from this build ACTUALL contains the openssl built by ? [17:19]
ascii_field and not the systemwide one [17:19]
ascii_field thestringpuller: i only ever use it as a less-carcinogenic substitute for perl [17:20]
mircea_popescu the cancer is so advanced x.x [17:20]
mircea_popescu << yeah, but implemented in wetware. [17:20]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 16:06:30; nubbins`: i thought he was a robot that just spouted words about business [17:20]
mircea_popescu ascii_field for that matter, you know, why the systemwide one ? the correct one! downloaded from [17:21]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: see, my boxes are set up to do precisely what i explicitly ask'em to do [17:21]
ascii_field and not 'helpful' crap behind me back [17:22]
mircea_popescu ascii_field listen, would you consider putting up reference compositions ? [17:22]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: compositions ? [17:22]
mircea_popescu for w/e you use ? sort of like "this is alf's hammer" [17:22]
ascii_field as in, disk image with compilators, etc ? [17:22]
mircea_popescu yes. [17:22]
mircea_popescu or w/e exact form most adequate. [17:22]
mircea_popescu the idea is, for someone wanting to copy your environment, to be able to do so with minimal work [17:22]
ascii_field i suppose mircea_popescu wants one that runs on qemu or bochs or the like [17:22]
mircea_popescu a sh script [17:22]
ascii_field iron-independent [17:22]
mircea_popescu well, not necessarily. [17:23]
mircea_popescu if it comes with a specification of parts that's also workable. [17:23]
mircea_popescu as a for instance. [17:23]
mircea_popescu the idea is, it seems clear to me that mere package-level specification is dysfunctional./ [17:23]
mircea_popescu this bs where we write down what we put into make or w/e does clearly not work. [17:23]
ascii_field parts that i mention in public have a tendency to become... less obtainable [17:24]
mircea_popescu and so what we're essentially doing when confronted with a bad software stack (pick a pogo, fix the os, run it there) is the correct solution not just for THAT one problem [17:24]
ascii_field so emulator probably better [17:24]
mircea_popescu but for all the problems derived from the same source. [17:24]
mircea_popescu and so... universalised. [17:24]
ascii_field but everyone will have to make peace with 30x lengthened build times. [17:24]
ascii_field and shuttling crud to/from the emu [17:24]
mircea_popescu emulators are a bad idea. just keep mentioning parts in public. [17:25]
ascii_field like we're nintendo devs [17:25]
ascii_field incidentally, perhaps you folks remember that i wanted to do this, in the beginning [17:25]
mircea_popescu vaguely. [17:25]
mircea_popescu i had no fucking idea, then, of exactly the state of rot in foss. [17:25]
ascii_field [17:25]
assbot Logged on 22-10-2014 18:16:50; asciilifeform: no, that's braindamaged. qemu image - complete minimal bsd with all components, boots up (emulated) on any arch from any culture. [17:25]
mircea_popescu but the more i look at it the scarier it gets. [17:26]
mircea_popescu ascii_field an "emulation" is basically "let's run a vps". noty. [17:26]
mircea_popescu << maybe you should make forms. [17:27]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 16:06:30; nubbins`: i thought he was a robot that just spouted words about business [17:27]
mircea_popescu oops wrong link. [17:27]
mircea_popescu << maybe you should make forms. [17:27]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 16:12:29; jurov: pete_dushenski: i'm not sure what you request? that i should keep the shares in custody? [17:27]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: vps << i said emulation, not virtualization [17:28]
mircea_popescu the difference is minute. [17:29]
ascii_field emulated machine will run same on 'cray' build in '88 and on 'multivac' in the year 3000. [17:29]
ascii_field think nintendo or commodore emulators used today. [17:29]
ascii_field the difference is not at all minute [17:29]
mircea_popescu "same" for any definition of same that doesn't include, say, someone stealing your data. [17:29]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: think for a minute. not suggesting to run battlefield apparatus -on- emulator. but a place to standardize imaginary machine for cross-compilators. [17:30]
ascii_field like knuth's 'mix' [17:30]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [17:30]
mircea_popescu ascii_field i am actually suggesting people move their day to day computing AWAY from "linux" or from "gentoo" which are MEANINGLESSSSSSSSS [17:30]
felipelalli here only to say that worked! I got a fright hell! [17:30]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 04:00:07; mircea_popescu: <<< note the important takeaway here. nothing keeps people in other places with shit banks from being intelligent, getting in wot, becoming part of the actual bitcoin marketplace. there's people here from all over the world. over time, a low effort / consumer thing like btcjam HAS TO devolve into the typical check advance / spam l [17:30]
mircea_popescu to SPECIFIED stacks of SPECIFIED software made by identified people. [17:30]
ascii_field beginning to see where mircea_popescu is going [17:30]
ascii_field buildroot for pc... [17:31]
mircea_popescu so i run "alf". [17:31]
ascii_field essentially, suggesting that we sit down and become 'gentoo' [17:31]
mircea_popescu ascii_field exactly. which is why i said, "when confronted with a bad software stack (pick a pogo, fix the os, run it there) is the correct solution not just for THAT one problem but for all the problems derived from the same source." [17:31]
mircea_popescu there's nothing magic about usgavin trying to fuck up the bitcoin stack. [17:31]
mircea_popescu he's not distinguishable from poettering trying to fuck up the linux userland [17:32]
mircea_popescu or from a whole array of equivalent muppets all "doing their part". [17:32]
mircea_popescu same problem, same solution. [17:32]
ascii_field mircea_popescu is only the 3rd or 4th fella to suggest that i take up maintaining a linux planet [17:32]
mircea_popescu not a planet mind you. [17:32]
mircea_popescu just a place. [17:32]
ascii_field it's a planet. [17:32]
ascii_field try to understand how the original gentoo went to seed [17:32]
mircea_popescu "you want to be here, you must buy nvidia hf-333 for a video card" is perfectly okay. [17:32]
mircea_popescu consider ^ [17:33]
ascii_field titanic amount of work for one schmuck's spare time. [17:33]
mircea_popescu this is incidentally not a bug. it is a feature. it helps us put pressure on hw manufacturers too [17:33]
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mircea_popescu "we don't want your latest version. we want X. fuck you." [17:33]
mircea_popescu this entire "latest version" bullcrap has to go away anyway. [17:33]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: thing is, look how the 'freeze it all in amber' thing works on bitcoind. [17:34]
mircea_popescu ascii_field shouldn't be any extra work really. just, bundle the software with a description of the hardware. [17:34]
ascii_field herculian labour, and it's one piddling proggy [17:34]
mircea_popescu don't tell me we lost the "interchangeable parts" to THAT degree. [17:34]
ascii_field we did. [17:34]
mircea_popescu what the fuck do you mean ? [17:34]
mircea_popescu a bitwise copy of your current system on an assemblage of the same hardware wouldn't boot ? [17:34]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: if exactly same, then will. this is kinda my notion with 'pogo'. [17:35]
mircea_popescu so then. [17:35]
ascii_field but the devil lives in the details. i have on my desk, for example, two nominally-identical microcontrollers which behave - differently. [17:36]
ascii_field in some errata sheet there may or many not be an explanation. [17:36]
ascii_field this also applies to, e.g., pc southbridges [17:36]
ascii_field ata controllers; [17:36]
ascii_field video boards; [17:36]
ascii_field etc. [17:36]
mircea_popescu so you'll soon discover "same part number" when we're talking boards means exactly nothing, and we'll be stuck tracing down exact vintage ? [17:36]
ascii_field don't take my word for it. ask another schmuck who works with low-level iron. [17:37]
ascii_field and the plague is ancient. it is how usg ended up with its attempts to standardize cpu [17:37]
ascii_field [17:37]
assbot Logged on 12-03-2015 01:50:22; asciilifeform: 'mil-std-1750a' for the curious. [17:37]
mircea_popescu well, the good news is that serenissima really has no unemployment. [17:39]
mircea_popescu we could readily employ thousands. [17:39]
ascii_field now, i'm not saying we should all eat our nagants, nothing can be done. one can achieve some measure of stability. but as things fall apart, as they increasingly are, the fuzz at the edges will look like... this. [17:39]
ascii_field see earlier thread re: infuriating idiocy [17:39]
mircea_popescu << only if you're not stupid. otherwise, works great. [17:40]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 16:36:53; pete_dushenski: plugging your ears and hoping that the bad words don't leak in must be a terrible way to live [17:40]
ascii_field the real solution is iron standard and impalements for violators [17:40]
ascii_field a -rational- standard against which -rational- folks won't rebel. [17:40]
chetty lmao, vlad? [17:40]
mircea_popescu ascii_field there is no such thing as a rational standard. [17:41]
mircea_popescu all standards are, by the nature of what a standard is, irrational. [17:41]
ascii_field mircea_popescu is technically right [17:41]
ascii_field what i actually meant was 'one which is not actively insulting to the intelligence of practitioners' [17:41]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:41]
mircea_popescu but the only way to have that [17:41]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [17:41]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [17:41]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:41]
mircea_popescu is to make it actively insulting to the stupidity of the nonpractitioners. [17:42]
ascii_field well yes. [17:42]
ascii_field (see also ) [17:42]
assbot Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard ... ( ) [17:42]
mircea_popescu and this is a major political decision we are, as far as history knows, the ONLY group willing to make. [17:42]
BingoBoingo << Geting qntra'd up but though I'd drop the original here nao [17:42]
mircea_popescu so willy-nilly we can't practically use the vomit of the others. [17:42]
assbot Executive Order -- "Blocking the Property of Certain Persons Engaging in Significant Malicious Cyber-Enabled Activities" | The White House ... ( ) [17:42]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ima read the qntra. usually better than original. [17:43]
ascii_field holy fuck [17:43]
BingoBoingo ^ Why linked before qntra finished [17:43]
mats [17:44]
assbot U.S. Navy alarmed at Beijing’s ‘Great Wall of sand’ in South China Sea - The Washington Post ... ( ) [17:44]
ascii_field 'any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Attorney General and the Secretary of State, to be responsible for or complicit in, or to have engaged in, directly or indirectly, cyber-enabled activities originating from, or directed by persons located, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States that are reasonably likely to result in, or have materially contributed to, a [17:44]
ascii_field significant threat to the national security, foreign policy, or economic health or financial stability of the United States...' [17:44]
BingoBoingo Lizard fangs have been bared [17:44]
chetty they are warming up the wagens [17:45]
mircea_popescu welll hopefully you all got your propertah out of the us at any point during the many discussions as to teh effect. [17:45]
ascii_field 'I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type of articles specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to section 1 of this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in this order, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of [17:45]
ascii_field this order.' [17:45]
nubbins` lel. [17:47]
nubbins` donating to .foundation just got made illegal [17:47]
mircea_popescu that's ok, donating to the irs is actually illegal. [17:47]
nubbins` phew [17:47]
mircea_popescu one's just gotta pick on which side they wish to live ilegally. [17:48]
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mircea_popescu << for good reason, it's not happening. [17:51]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 18:24:13; ascii_field: ^ and i refuse to do this. [17:51]
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mircea_popescu kinda curious what ben_vulpes / mod6 make of this. [17:51]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: it built on their boxes, on account of mysql in their gcc. [17:52]
mircea_popescu well what is the ???? [17:52]
ascii_field and ~?????? in mine. [17:52]
mircea_popescu maybe it's thompson's drillbit ? [17:52]
ascii_field i promise to say when find out. [17:52]
mircea_popescu a) i don't think think this would have been caught by pretty much any other outfit on the planet and b) i don't see the proposition we've found a deep seated hole is readily dismissable. [17:53]
mircea_popescu for all we know, this is how the universally diddled compiler is discovered. [17:53]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: i would not waste the gentlemens' time if i did not think this were interesting. [17:53]
mircea_popescu it is. [17:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23911 @ 0.00025101 = 6.0019 BTC [+] [17:54]
mircea_popescu not for being likely, but for it being exactly the way in which that unlikely'd be seen. [17:54]
ascii_field re: mein Führer's decree: when i tell folks i have an expiration date in the none too distant future - they laugh. [17:55]
ascii_field still laugh ? [17:55]
mats "three govt officials can pwn your shit at will on the basis of evidence at least as good as obama's attribution of the sony attack to north korea" [17:55]
ascii_field mats: schmuck on the street, if any of them read it, will mutter 'good, they'll hang spammers finally' or the like. [17:56]
mats and ya don't even have to be american to participate. democracy. [17:56]
ascii_field as i've said perhaps a dozen times, if there isn't an icbm battery between you and the lunatic nato reich - you're fair game to them. [17:57]
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mircea_popescu mats quite exactly. [17:59]
mircea_popescu anyone "owning" in the us is deluding themselves. [17:59]
mircea_popescu ascii_field and especially if there is. [17:59]
ascii_field if there is and you can demonstrate readiness to use it - as in, 'we catch ONE more blackwater in donbass and new york is glass' - then possibly no [18:00]
ascii_field but there is not at present such a king. [18:00]
mircea_popescu ascii_field if there was, you'd know it by this sign, that he'd glass new york anyway. [18:01]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: long ago. [18:01]
mircea_popescu somethinglike thjat. [18:01]
mircea_popescu anyway, for the record : the us president does not have the rights it gives itself. [18:02]
chetty well dont people generally have the rights they step up and take? [18:02]
ascii_field he has the ability. [18:02]
ascii_field which is to say, he can push a button and i starve [18:03]
mircea_popescu no, rights are exactly not that, which is why the concept even exists. [18:03]
mircea_popescu ascii_field he might have the ability. does not have the right. [18:03]
chetty but who is going to tell him so? [18:04]
ascii_field like every criminal, the officials of usg do precisely as much as they can comfortably get away with. [18:04]
mircea_popescu i just told him so. [18:04]
mircea_popescu ascii_field obviously. [18:04]
mircea_popescu cue obama going for a condolezza rice impersonation. "nobody had any idea what we were doing was illegal." [18:06]
mircea_popescu "i just graduated from stanford, i don;t know anything." [18:07]
ascii_field word 'illegal' to them only applies to misbehaviour of the cattle [18:07]
ascii_field not to farmer. [18:07]
mircea_popescu interestingly enough, i take the same view. [18:07]
ascii_field farmer by definition cannot commit cattlemisbehaviour [18:07]
chetty no its worse, he commits farmer misbehavior [18:08]
mircea_popescu i suppose war is inevitable when people agree in principle but not in fact. [18:08]
mircea_popescu a cow won't fight another cow, nor a farmer another farmer, [18:08]
ascii_field ultima ratio regum (TM) !! [18:08]
mircea_popescu but when a cow thinks itself a farmer and thinks the farmer a cow... [18:08]
mircea_popescu this has to come to blow [18:08]
mircea_popescu s [18:08]
mircea_popescu anyway, let's up the stakes a little here. [18:09]
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* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:12]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [18:12]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:12]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: you might want to have some other fella, who isn't to hang soon, maintain serenissima-linux. [18:14]
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BingoBoingo !up nubbins` [18:15]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [18:15]
mircea_popescu i like people who will hang soon. [18:15]
mircea_popescu lived most of my life as one. [18:15]
ascii_field mircea_popescu morituri te salutant ! [18:15]
ascii_field (TM) [18:16]
ascii_field see also [18:16]
assbot Logged on 12-03-2015 01:41:14; asciilifeform: 'Bien Darkmans then, Bouse Mort and Ken The bien Coves bings awast, On Chates to trine by Rome-Coves dine, For his long lib at last.' [18:16]
trinque when they declare working on a piece of open source a threat to national security, time to find a shore and start swimming [18:17]
mircea_popescu deedbot- [18:17]
assbot ... ( ) [18:17]
ascii_field trinque is posting from the sea ? [18:17]
mircea_popescu trinque bitcoin is factually a threat to the usg "national security". it exists to end them. [18:18]
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ascii_field that 1btc will do us good in 'gitmo' [18:20]
ascii_field will have to learn to ecdsa in head. [18:20]
mircea_popescu << he has a point. failures are potentially more important than successes. [18:20]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 19:07:26; ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: plz to report build failures! [18:20]
mircea_popescu ascii_field well, eventually 1 btc will be ample fortune for one to live. [18:21]
ascii_field in the martian colony, circa 4000 ad, yes. [18:21]
trinque so how about that gossipd [18:21]
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mircea_popescu ascii_field i'm thinking more like 2030s. [18:21]
ascii_field trinque: mine's not done. and i don't think the other fella's is, either. but ask him [18:22]
mircea_popescu trinque artifexd been working on it. he occasionalyl comes up for air. [18:22]
trinque I'm thinking deedbot wants something other than http and dns if it is to survive [18:22]
mircea_popescu prolly. [18:23]
trinque and you know, me [18:23]
trinque :D [18:23]
mircea_popescu hey, you ever dumped the history in there ? [18:23]
ascii_field the weakest link is the people, not the machines. [18:23]
ascii_field sadly [18:23]
trinque I have it, but no I have not [18:23]
* ascii_field listened (in car) to an infuriatingly zimmermanish interview with jon callas (former pgp, now 'silent circle' garbage) [18:24]
ascii_field wanted to throw up [18:24]
mircea_popescu old men are usually stupid. [18:24]
ascii_field not that old. [18:25]
ascii_field and not stupid. knows what he's doing [18:25]
ascii_field but i could almost -smell- the mendacity [18:25]
mircea_popescu "knows" [18:25]
mircea_popescu what exactly does he know ? [18:25]
ascii_field seriously synathesia here [18:25]
ascii_field *synaesthesia [18:25]
* trinque does a double take [18:25]
mircea_popescu or to quote, "Goddamn right, that's right. Guys come on: "Oh, the blah blah blah, I know what I'll do: I'll go in and rob everyone blind and go to Argentina cause nobody ever thought of this before."" [18:26]
trinque did the president just decree himself able to steal property over any vaguely defined "threat" whatsoever [18:26]
mircea_popescu trinque yes. he now has more powers than putin. [18:26]
ascii_field trinque: nah, lbj did that [18:26]
ascii_field trinque: it's been renewed since [18:26]
ascii_field by each succeeding one. [18:26]
trinque ascii_field: yes but surely there was at least a veneer of protocol there? [18:26]
trinque not yeah, I walk down two halls or whatever [18:26]
mircea_popescu im kinda curious how is jurov going to rationalise away the fact that on the balance of things, the us thug is actually more thuggish than the ru thug. [18:26]
ascii_field arguably fdr was the first [18:26]
trinque and "hey guys, go assfuck X" [18:26]
ascii_field what 'protocol' did he follow for the jp internment thing ? [18:27]
ascii_field his word - like that of the other great tyrants of his time - was enough. [18:27]
trinque yes you're right [18:27]
trinque notably though, all pretense of some exempt caste aside from the ruling class is now gone [18:27]
mircea_popescu ascii_field oh meanwhile i recall who callas is. the reason i don't like openpgp! [18:28]
ascii_field just hearing him talk... was like suffering a case of food poisoning [18:28]
mircea_popescu << as is singular and atis is pluran 2nd person [18:30]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 19:25:48; ben_vulpes: what's the difference between acuitas and acuitatis? [18:30]
mircea_popescu o as at amus atis ant [18:30]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: the us thug is actually more thuggish than the ru thug << ru thug did not come to texas, arm the republic of texas separatists so they can shell dallas, and raise international stink of 'consensus' when the locals defend it [18:30]
trinque yesterday I spent a fair amount of time thinking about how the US was already the totalitarian govt of much of the world long before I was born [18:30]
trinque and that in developing this capacity it was inevitable that they'd bring it home [18:30]
trinque the "regime change" machine [18:30]
ascii_field trinque: see pertinent orlol, [18:31]
assbot ClubOrlov: License to Kill ... ( ) [18:31]
mircea_popescu like ambulas = one walks ambulatis = two walk. [18:31]
nubbins` FWIW fresh on gentoo, building openssl by itself: Makefile:640: recipe for target 'install_docs' failed [18:33]
ascii_field nubbins`: iirc that never worked [18:33]
ascii_field nubbins`: tex bug [18:33]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: 'further compensation to satisfy at least five times the value of property lost at the time the loss occurred' << their favourite thing is not only to steal lands, houses (who even has these any more) but to freeze bank account and then have fun staying out of the street and the morgue, much less paying attorney [18:34]
nubbins` o [18:34]
mircea_popescu ascii_field im not saying it's a complete solution. i am saying it is a lot more than nothing. [18:35]
ascii_field not saying it means nothing. [18:35]
ascii_field just that mr o can push a button, and send me to beg for spare change and 'big mac' on highway. [18:36]
mircea_popescu anyway, alligns incentrives correctly. "have you or anyone you know or care about been stolen from by the usg ? come join the people working to take away its shit" [18:36]
mircea_popescu if you derp much longer in there, yes. [18:36]
mircea_popescu but this is not news. [18:36]
ascii_field this also applies to the other schmucks [18:38]
ascii_field in usaschwitz [18:38]
mircea_popescu certainly. [18:38]
gabridome Ginux_ GNULinuxGuy GoMaD gribble Guest19244 Guest60096 Guest84681______ guruvan [18:38]
mircea_popescu heck, BingoBoingo has some stories about how it applied to him already, give or take. [18:38]
mircea_popescu in other news, "It seems obvious to me that global warming is caused by carbon dioxide, and the main source of carbon dioxide is lawnmowers. I have noticed over the years that it gets really cold during the winter, and during that time I rarely hear lawn mowers. But, as soon as I start hearing the occasional lawnmower in the neighborhood, it starts getting warmer. By midsummer when I hear lawnmowers every day, it is al [18:38]
mircea_popescu most always hot weather. And, as lawnmower use starts to taper in the fall, it starts getting cooler again." [18:38]
mircea_popescu just as good as any "earth science" out there. [18:38]
mircea_popescu " Lawnmowers have a nearly immediate effect on the local climate, too. In my area, lawnmowers are rarely used at night, and even 8-hours of lawnmower inactivity can cool the neighborhood by 20-degrees Fahrenheit. The tight correlation between lawnmower use and temperature is so closely related, that the scientific debate on the subject should be closed." [18:39]
mircea_popescu "To those that suggest that the Sun has something to do with the weather, I say that is just a superstition. The Sun is far too far away to have any effect on the neighborhood. And besides, the Sun comes up in the winter, but it does not stay warm. But, as soon as people stop using lawnmowers, it gets cold. So, it seems obvious and irrefutable that carbon dioxide causes global warming, and lawnmowers are the main sourc [18:39]
mircea_popescu e of carbon dioxide." [18:39]
ascii_field ^ gold. [18:39]
ascii_field re: earlier thread: i will point out that folks who got on the plane and left usa borders but still earn a living from something on which usg might exert pressure, directly or indirectly, are still inmates of usaschwitz. [18:42]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:42]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [18:42]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:42]
ascii_field this also includes folks who have nothing to do with usa but live in a nato muppet state [18:42]
ascii_field e.g., nubbins` in ca [18:43]
* assbot removes voice from nubbins` [18:45]
ascii_field !up nubbins` [18:46]
ascii_field l0l [18:46]
asciilifeform !up nubbins` [18:46]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [18:46]
ascii_field so it isn't simply a matter of physically getting out - any idiot with 1k-usd or so can do that. but you also have to completely divorce the 'legit global economy' [18:47]
nubbins` underground economy bru [18:47]
thestringpuller for all those drug dealing just to get by [18:47]
nubbins` all of a sudden the freewheelin hitchhikin hippies aren't so stupid :0 [18:47]
thestringpuller stack your money until it get sky high [18:48]
thestringpuller ascii_field: this is why we have organized crime. [18:48]
ascii_field nubbins`: when the canadian affiliate of usg decides that nubbins` is a t3rr0r1st!!!1111!!1 and supplying mains current to his home is an atrocity which must end, 'underground economy' will do so in its place ? [18:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 320800 @ 0.0002554 = 81.9323 BTC [+] {6} [18:48]
thestringpuller buy a new identity? [18:48]
thestringpuller beome nubbins` #2 [18:49]
nubbins` ;;rated othernubs [18:49]
gribble You have not yet rated user othernubs [18:49]
nubbins` wat! [18:49]
nubbins` ;;rated othernubs` [18:49]
gribble You rated user othernubs` on Mon Oct 20 13:34:32 2014, with a rating of 10, and supplied these additional notes: not a bad guy. [18:49]
thestringpuller ^- see ascii_field easy peasy [18:49]
trinque rational folks may be comtemplating the implications of the decree they just read [18:50]
trinque dunno that I'm rational, but I'm contemplating it [18:51]
ascii_field trinque: the implications are unsurprising. merely a friendly reminder from usg that anyone in range is fair game to it to rape with a telephone pole, and that - unless you're mircea_popescu, putin, or one of a hundred other folks who can say 'no' and make it stick, all you can do is to wait your turn. [18:53]
ascii_field for those who still don't get it - it costs more to -actually- remove someone from usg planet, than it does to lift them into orbit. [19:00]
ascii_field cost in terms of actual, vs. paper, wealth. [19:00]
ascii_field and yes mircea_popescu wrote about pulling pretty gurlz into orbit. this is easier, gurlz weigh less. [19:01]
* funkenstein (~josed@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:01]
ascii_field and they make good petz [19:01]
* funkenstein is now known as funkenstein_ [19:01]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [19:04]
funkenstein_ i still don't get it [19:05]
ascii_field funkenstein_: you will. [19:06]
* diatonic (~diatonic@unaffiliated/diatonic) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:06]
funkenstein_ i hope so [19:06]
funkenstein_ cause sometimes it sounds like you guys believe there is a real usg [19:07]
ascii_field i mean, the whole lot of us schmucks who are stuck here [19:07]
ascii_field will 'get it' [19:07]
funkenstein_ we're all stuck here [19:07]
ascii_field funkenstein_: other than mircea_popescu [19:07]
trinque due to what, my half-working rubber stamp apparatus? [19:07]
funkenstein_ ok :) [19:07]
ascii_field trinque: it works great when it's your time. [19:07]
trinque lol [19:07]
ascii_field go tell herr ulbricht that it doesn't. [19:08]
ascii_field and srsly, this is just the -famous- people [19:10]
ascii_field the schmucks get the joe stack treatment [19:10]
funkenstein_ that bit about the father getting jumped by 45 guys with usg hats totally ruined my april 1 thanks a lot guys [19:10]
ascii_field and we only know of stack because he had a creative way to blow his stack, so to speak. [19:10]
ascii_field the list of the folks dekulakized, libelled, injured, killed by usg thugs - is bookcase-length. [19:11]
ascii_field if it were ever put on paper [19:11]
funkenstein_ thanks for sharing anyways, warnings are good [19:11]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:13]
funkenstein_ !up ascii_field [19:13]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:13]
ascii_field and on top of this all, bitcoind release doesn't staticbuild. [19:14]
ascii_field (see earlier, substantive thread, before the obamitler thing) [19:14]
nubbins` <+ascii_field> nubbins`: when the canadian affiliate of usg decides that nubbins` is a t3rr0r1st!!!1111!!1 and supplying mains current to his home is an atrocity which must end, 'underground economy' will do so in its place ? <<< understand that "underground economy" means you have neither a mortgage nor a lease in your own name [19:14]
ascii_field nubbins`: and what, no one does ? [19:15]
trinque nubbins` operates from a crypto-knapsack [19:15]
ascii_field who to mooch off ? [19:15]
trinque nubbins`: want to host deedbot- from that thing? [19:15]
nubbins` ? i can name a hundred people, right now, who live in this fashion [19:15]
ascii_field nubbins`: i can name, if i want, a hundred people who live in dumpsters. [19:16]
nubbins` o.O [19:16]
nubbins` you do not know a hundred people who live in dumpsters. [19:17]
* assbot removes voice from nubbins` [19:17]
ascii_field understand, subjects of usg always have the choice of moving into a private, independent ambulatory jail [19:17]
ascii_field saves usg cost, yes. it is encouraged. [19:17]
asciilifeform !up nubbins` [19:17]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [19:17]
ascii_field nubbins`: understand, i do not know them personally. though i used to keep the company of some people who -ate- from dumpsters [19:18]
nubbins` right. [19:18]
nubbins` anyway, whether or not one can survive comfortably off the radar is more a function of the route their life has taken thus far. it's not in the cards for everyone. [19:19]
ascii_field to follow this logic to the end, it is much better to be a rat than a man [19:19]
ascii_field because rat is as pleased with dumpster as a man would be with sultan of brunei's palaces [19:20]
nubbins` only if you're happy with living as a rat. [19:20]
ascii_field rat does not need elektron microscope or 6-axis milling machine, yes [19:20]
ascii_field so he is quite happy. [19:20]
nubbins` and that's where your path has taken you [19:21]
funkenstein_ nor does he have to drone on endlessly on the tragedies of the human condition [19:21]
ascii_field funkenstein_: to be fair, rat might whine if he could speak [19:21]
ascii_field we just don't know precisely about what. [19:21]
nubbins` understand that your desire to own a 6-axis milling machine directly conflicts with your ability to live happily off-radar [19:21]
danielpbarron the rat has no soul to be saved for the kingdom of God [19:22]
ascii_field nubbins`: and i don't even own one.. [19:22]
funkenstein_ danielpbarron, i disagree [19:22]
nubbins` you don't need to own a thing for its desire to shape your set of acceptable environments [19:22]
ascii_field nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world [19:22]
nubbins` that's why the off-radars live with strangers (or, more frequently, friends) [19:23]
ascii_field nubbins`: and if you can't think when surrounded by loud, noxious strangers and their excreta ? [19:23]
ascii_field then 'quit thinking, your life led you to no good' ? [19:23]
nubbins` nope. then work as a contractor for the man. [19:23]
trinque so... why not drop off the face of bitcoin entirely until escape velocity [19:24]
ascii_field trinque: escape from what? usg's largesse? aha right. [19:24]
funkenstein_ this has probably crossed our minds trinque [19:24]
ascii_field as if any of us has a snowball's chance in hell of escape. [19:25]
ascii_field the choice is between 'die' and 'die like a man' [19:25]
funkenstein_ ascii_field we have already escaped. [19:25]
ascii_field funkenstein_ lives on atomic battleship in north atlantic ? [19:26]
ascii_field how many rockets ? [19:26]
ascii_field have you tested any, to see if still work ? [19:26]
funkenstein_ why would i need rockets? [19:26]
ascii_field because when hitler says 'funkenstein_ does not get to eat any more, anyone found feeding him will be fed to lampreys' what will funkenstein_ reply ? [19:27]
funkenstein_ hardly needs a reply does it [19:28]
ascii_field there is precisely -one- language in which there could be a reply. [19:28]
ascii_field a reply that is meaningfully understood and acted on, at any rate. [19:28]
funkenstein_ i don't think that language is rocket [19:29]
trinque nor I. [19:29]
ascii_field going purely based on historical example here. [19:30]
funkenstein_ i speak horticulture [19:30]
ascii_field don't take my word for it. try speaking other languages to it, see how far you get. [19:30]
trinque my only goal is to get out of the way of a giant that's already mortally injured [19:30]
ascii_field i don't see this 'injured.' [19:31]
funkenstein_ i don't see this giant [19:31]
trinque ^ that's the injury [19:31]
ascii_field funkenstein_: when they drag you away, feel free to imagine that the 'giant' is a gaggle of midgets. much difference it will make in 'gitmo.' [19:31]
trinque "drag away" for what [19:32]
funkenstein_ a gaggle of midgets can be dangerous as fuck i give you that [19:32]
jurov wait what, how do we measure the thuggery here? [19:33]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 21:22:34; mircea_popescu: im kinda curious how is jurov going to rationalise away the fact that on the balance of things, the us thug is actually more thuggish than the ru thug. [19:33]
nubbins` qualitatively [19:33]
nubbins` 8) [19:33]
jurov that is? [19:34]
ascii_field jurov: think, if you prefer, of two robbers - one who wants to steal his neighbor's house, in which he used to live but got foreclosed on; and one who steals entire planet. [19:34]
ascii_field jurov: you have ru and usg respectively. [19:34]
funkenstein_ ascii_field, if a bunch of assholes wearing usg hats take me down, i will know it was a bunch of assholes wearing usg hats took me down, not a giant [19:34]
ascii_field funkenstein_: all state is made of midget [19:35]
ascii_field there were never giants in that other sense. [19:35]
jurov dear ascii_field, he will get his house, but will end up yet poorer [19:35]
jurov what do you think happen next? [19:35]
funkenstein_ agreed. petty tyrants. [19:35]
nubbins` [19:36]
assbot MRW I get tricked into seeing something I really wish I hadn't ... ( ) [19:36]
ascii_field jurov: dueling mega-states leave the schmucks poorer, who could be surprised [19:36]
trinque nubbins`: blehhhh [19:36]
nubbins` heh [19:36]
trinque nubbins`: your mascot? [19:36]
nubbins` MRW convo turns to usd-goliath [19:36]
* CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [19:38]
* diatonic has quit (Quit: Leaving) [19:38]
jurov it boils down to who'd you rather befriend: the narcist, or the paranoid [19:39]
jurov i'd prefer some third way, but serenissima is not world power yet [19:39]
jurov so then i'd begrundgingly go with the narcist [19:39]
ascii_field jurov: it can't even power a linux distro yet. [19:39]
trinque meanwhile I'm not about to run out in front of the white house with my dick out and a target painted on my chest [19:40]
ascii_field jurov: the paranoid wants to live in quiet in his bunker, with buffer zone made of idiots who sided with his molesters around, for safety. the narcissist wants to cut up everything good and bright that ever was to cut into designer purse for self. [19:40]
nubbins` a-ha [19:41]
ascii_field *of dead idiots [19:41]
jurov if they mistook finnish and central eu folk for such idiots [19:41]
ascii_field mistook?! [19:41]
jurov then they deserve what they got [19:41]
trinque man, I just wanna end up unknown somewhere with a greenhouse [19:41]
trinque that'd be fine [19:41]
trinque let the thing wear itself out [19:42]
nubbins` hm when building make, first bjam command produces: ...failed updating 1 target... [19:42]
ascii_field jurov: small non-atomicsovereign kingdoms don't get to have foreign policy, only to switch rapists [19:42]
* nubbins` wonders the easy way to discover said target [19:42]
ascii_field quite analogous to individual schmucks as discussed earlier in thread. [19:43]
nubbins` in the midst of the thousands upon thousands of warnings [19:43]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:43]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [19:43]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:43]
jurov !up ascii_field [19:43]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:43]
ascii_field i can readily believe that jurov personally prefers to live in a us colony than ru colony - and do not take issue with this, it is very much a private matter [19:44]
ben_vulpes (which result from my gcc NOT going behind my back and inserting stdint exactly where wanted, the way everyone else's apparently does) << i don't even know how to check which tools are lying to me [19:44]
ben_vulpes readelf was new to me as of 2 months ago [19:44]
jurov ascii_field: even you don't want to live in russia [19:45]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [19:45]
jurov so that's why i wonder what you endlessly argue for [19:45]
ascii_field jurov: not exactly [19:45]
trinque impalement it sounds like [19:45]
trinque lol [19:45]
ascii_field jurov: i argue that anything that meaningfully opposes usg is to be applauded [19:45]
ascii_field that means no muppets (e.g. arabian nationalists funded by u.s. dept of state) or symbionts (cn) or parasites (north kr) [19:46]
funkenstein_ well that would mean you applaud most all citizens of usa [19:46]
ascii_field ru is not 'the future', just the best-looking horse in the usg glue factory, in this regard. [19:46]
ascii_field the one still kicking a little. [19:47]
ascii_field occasionally knocks some teeth from the demented butcher's mouth. [19:47]
funkenstein_ this is why north america loves putin [19:47]
* assbot removes voice from nubbins` [19:47]
asciilifeform !up nubbins` [19:47]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [19:47]
ben_vulpes we could readily employ thousands. << you and what budget?! [19:48]
ascii_field ^^^^^^ [19:48]
ascii_field perhaps he meant the old meaning of word 'employ' [19:48]
ben_vulpes put to work. [19:49]
ben_vulpes burn the biodiesel. [19:49]
ascii_field as in 'find a use for, assuming they can eat tree bark and build own computer from mud' [19:49]
danielpbarron qntra shares for a start [19:49]
ascii_field danielpbarron pays his rent in qntra shares ? [19:49]
danielpbarron it's an example of where the budget comes from -- anywhere in the world [19:50]
ascii_field what budget. [19:50]
danielpbarron the one that redily employs thousands [19:51]
ascii_field what there -is-, is an infinite budget of -hate- for the buggers. [19:51]
ascii_field it's what keeps me going [19:51]
ascii_field i don't expect atomic dirigible to pick me up from the hell [19:52]
danielpbarron anyone in the world who can get their hands on bitcoin can help fund that hate [19:52]
ascii_field but every time i have a small success in the things i work on, i picture some 'full spectrum dominance' type who will have to sell his daughters six minutes sooner [19:53]
ascii_field because of what i did [19:53]
ascii_field and it keeps me going. [19:53]
ascii_field danielpbarron: the bitcoin doesn't buy additional hate. usg does that. [19:53]
ascii_field for free. [19:53]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i would not waste the gentlemens' time if i did not think this were interesting. << rather. [19:53]
* nubbins` can also not get compiled on gentoo, but for completely different reason [19:53]
ascii_field nubbins`: oh ? [19:54]
ascii_field please post the barf [19:54]
nubbins` headers.h:21:27: fatal error: openssl/ecdsa.h: No such file or directory [19:54]
nubbins` i'll pastebin more relevant vomit [19:54]
danielpbarron i have had that error [19:54]
jurov i can see annoyed and bored late roman citizen "go germans go" .. just not my cup of tea [19:54]
danielpbarron [19:54]
assbot Logged on 25-03-2015 14:04:55; danielpbarron: ;;later tell mod6 having some troubles here [19:54]
nubbins` [19:54]
assbot ... ( ) [19:54]
nubbins` i did get 1 failed target on openssl build [19:54]
danielpbarron me too [19:55]
ascii_field jurov: fair. i'm not sitting and 'go, zetas, go' either. [19:55]
danielpbarron well that's a relief; i had thought my gentoo install was borked [19:55]
nubbins` oh, and actually, yeah bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/include/openssl does not exist [19:55]
ascii_field jurov: though BingoBoingo did 'go ferguson go' a bit [19:55]
nubbins` none of the headers are there [19:55]
nubbins` guess that was an important target :p [19:55]
nubbins` wait, no, boost failed 1 target. [19:57]
* nubbins` scratches head [19:57]
funkenstein_ "blocks" : 315048, "connections" : 10 [19:57]
ascii_field the whole fucking ecosystem is rotten to the bone. [19:57]
ascii_field (see earlier thread) [19:57]
danielpbarron i find that fact to be comforting as it is generally consistent with the reality described in the Bible [19:58]
ascii_field i'ma go sit in traffic for a couplea hours now. perhaps one of you independently wealthy folks can fix it meanwhile. [19:59]
* ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:59]
ben_vulpes lived most of my life as one. << my turn to live under the gallows shadow [20:01]
* nubbins` yawns [20:01]
nubbins` fuck am i ever glad shit like this is just a hobby now [20:02]
funkenstein_ !rate ascii_field 1 on our side [20:02]
assbot ascii_field is not registered in WoT. [20:02]
trinque funkenstein_: what's "our side" [20:02]
nubbins` funkenstein_ try asciilifeform [20:02]
trinque this is what's problematic to me here; I am on no one's side... [20:02]
trinque well this and other things [20:02]
funkenstein_ guess it was the royal we ;) [20:02]
nubbins` !b 3 [20:02]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [20:03]
nubbins` close [20:03]
nubbins` trinque everywhere's got problems, they're just, uh... /different/ here [20:03]
ben_vulpes funkenstein_ fancies hisself a laird nao? [20:03]
nubbins` ,e, [20:04]
nubbins` whoa [20:04]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: relax - it's just an april fool's joke :P [20:04]
funkenstein_ begging your pardon sirs [20:04]
funkenstein_ just meant to say i liked the chap's spirit [20:05]
nubbins` danielpbarron around? [20:05]
danielpbarron ya [20:05]
nubbins` found missing openssl headers, they're just in the wrong spot. [20:06]
nubbins` add ~/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/openssl-1.0.1g/include to your path [20:06]
ben_vulpes funkenstein_: that's the spirit [20:06]
nubbins` or figure out why puts the shit in the wrong dir [20:06]
scoopbot New post on by Bingo Boingo: [20:08]
danielpbarron nubbins`, where would that go? [20:08]
nubbins` $ export PATH=$PATH:/home/dpb/dev/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/openssl-1.0.1g/include [20:09]
nubbins` $ echo $PATH [20:09]
nubbins` if it looks kosher, then try ./ again [20:10]
nubbins` oh hm [20:11]
nubbins` wtf! [20:13]
funkenstein_ holy shit [20:13]
nubbins` danielpbarron that actually doesn't work. [20:15]
funkenstein_ BingoBoingo tell me it's april fools please [20:15]
funkenstein_ persons located, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States <--- ??? [20:17]
* assbot removes voice from nubbins` [20:18]
BingoBoingo jurov: though BingoBoingo did 'go ferguson go' a bit << Then the peace vampires came out, like USG Informant Al Sharpton. [20:20]
BingoBoingo funkenstein_: Did you read the order? It is linked and on the white house website as well as attached in full text at the botton of the post [20:20]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: ^ qntra on the topic is up [20:21]
* NewLiberty ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:24]
BingoBoingo !up NewLiberty [20:25]
* assbot gives voice to NewLiberty [20:25]
* dustcoin (~dustcoin@unaffiliated/dustcoin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:26]
* BingoBoingo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [20:28]
gribble Error: "later_tell" is not a valid command. [20:29]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:30]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [20:32]
nubbins` danielpbarron mkdir ourlibs/include/openssl; cp openssl-1.0.1g/include/openssl/* ourlibs/include/openssl/ [20:32]
* BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:32]
nubbins` aha! [20:33]
nubbins` this brings me to: [20:33]
nubbins` util.h:650:8: error: ‘uint32_t’ does not name a type [20:33]
nubbins` ^ asciilifeform [20:33]
nubbins` ^ mod6 ben_vulpes [20:34]
* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [20:34]
nubbins` alf, take small solace in the fact that it's not just you? [20:34]
* nubbins` invites anyone currently watching to google the above error, with quotes [20:35]
* bitstein has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: [20:35]
BingoBoingo hanbot: Should be fixed [20:37]
nubbins` only results are from log [20:37]
nubbins` asciilifeform i'm done w/ this for the evening, but my next step will be to try again with gcc 4.4.5, which mod6 says was current (in debian) when 0.5.3 came out [20:38]
nubbins` it's entirely possible that gcc broke this [20:38]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "Faced with technology that forces it to reveal its teeth and claws, along with the reaping of the fruit the United States Government planted in its subversion of the computing stack at every level, the fangs are being bared and the claws unsheathed." [20:38]
mircea_popescu dude srsly... too meta. [20:39]
mircea_popescu << that's prolly going too far. the usg can prolly "exert pressure" on the price of soy, nevertheless you can still go to argentina's remote east and grow some soy for yourself. [20:40]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 21:42:51; ascii_field: so it isn't simply a matter of physically getting out - any idiot with 1k-usd or so can do that. but you also have to completely divorce the 'legit global economy' [20:40]
mircea_popescu << no, they're stupid. [20:40]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 21:43:36; nubbins`: all of a sudden the freewheelin hitchhikin hippies aren't so stupid :0 [20:41]
mircea_popescu just, vagrant stupid rather than delusional stupid. [20:41]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Toned down the meta a bit. [20:41]
mircea_popescu yeah. simile and such are very iffy in newsprint. [20:41]
* BingoBoingo pours a drink because cutting the liquor budget substantially for the short to medium term future. [20:46]
nubbins` bbl meatspace headspace [20:51]
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* assbot removes voice from NewLiberty [20:55]
* dustcoin has quit () [20:56]
mircea_popescu << this is where the entire "smart" turns to stupid. the only thing them smart hipsters can do is be my slavegirls. [20:56]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:11:02; ascii_field: who to mooch off ? [20:56]
hanbot mircea_popescu how's a hipster blowjob go? [20:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nevertheless you can still go to argentina's remote east and grow some soy for yourself << grow me a 0805 resistor. [20:57]
mircea_popescu << no. it is strictly a function of whether they are posing a threat to the leviathan or not. strictly that. no "routes". you can only matter if you can actually blow a hole in them, and you can only blow a hole in them if you don't depend on someone's permission for your activity. [20:57]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:14:49; nubbins`: anyway, whether or not one can survive comfortably off the radar is more a function of the route their life has taken thus far. it's not in the cards for everyone. [20:57]
asciilifeform or so much as a gram of soy, that the chinese can't grow cheaper, with which to buy one. [20:57]
mircea_popescu in this sense, someone who has to mooch wifi and someone who "owns" a mortgage are identical. [20:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not my fault boys are worthless irl, when irl is designed by usg. [20:58]
mircea_popescu this is deliberate and intentional. [20:58]
asciilifeform ^ this is why i don't get nubbbins` presenting bohemians as mega-example to learn from [20:58]
mircea_popescu he's just going with his past groupthink. [20:58]
mircea_popescu << no. living off radar is not a matter of vanishing yourself. it is a matter of forcing the op to turn the radar off. [21:00]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:17:18; nubbins`: understand that your desire to own a 6-axis milling machine directly conflicts with your ability to live happily off-radar [21:00]
asciilifeform ^^^ [21:00]
mircea_popescu his desire to own a cnc mill is a result of his desire to own a nuke, which is a result of his desire to go "either you stick to this rule or i kill you" [21:00]
mircea_popescu which is necessary. [21:00]
mircea_popescu anything conflicting with this chain is about as interesting as "a bitcoin" that doesn't mine off the main chain. [21:00]
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mircea_popescu glhf. [21:01]
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asciilifeform dustcoin? [21:01]
mircea_popescu hanbot i have nfi lol [21:01]
mircea_popescu << and it's not a matter of desire, we're not discussing aesthetics here, as if we were living in a post-functional world where even bothering to think about "where does the tap water come from" is a waste of time. [21:03]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:18:07; nubbins`: you don't need to own a thing for its desire to shape your set of acceptable environments [21:03]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ... be my slavegirls << in that case, [21:03]
* asciilifeform recommeds that mircea_popescu start collecting slavegirls who are handy with systems programming. though the trouble may be that ones of the correct vintage (no later than early '80s) are probably beginning to spoil... [21:04]
mircea_popescu it is a matter of need : in order to ensure your space you must control whole chains. there's no escaping this, and so someone will have to. nobody particularly has a desire to run a cnc mill or an ic fab, but if one wants working software, one has to. and so it flows. [21:04]
asciilifeform ^ [21:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform a naked woman can be taught anything if you're willing to break an uncountable set of sticks. [21:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: teach'em, why not [21:05]
mircea_popescu the part that's worth teaching is easy to teach, and unrelated to intelligence. [21:05]
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mircea_popescu the part you won't teach them shouldn't be taught anyway. [21:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wake me up when they get kernel [21:05]
mircea_popescu "how to make this counterintuitive sht work ? " "don't." [21:05]
asciilifeform wake me up when they build a fab. [21:06]
mircea_popescu y u wanna sleep so much. [21:06]
asciilifeform even a 'fairchild' circa '70s fab. [21:06]
asciilifeform practicing for cemetary. [21:06]
asciilifeform i hear sleep is the main order of business there. [21:06]
mircea_popescu lol [21:06]
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mircea_popescu i never hear of anyone flunk the cemetery. [21:06]
mircea_popescu scarcely any need to practice then. [21:06]
mod6 so re: all the uint32_t, sorry that you're all having problems with this. I guess I missed a lot of stuff. [21:06]
asciilifeform mod6: read the log. i fixed it, only to reveal a mega-bug [21:07]
mircea_popescu mod6 do you have any idea why your thing compiled it ? [21:07]
asciilifeform where none of the 'static' stuff actually worked ever. [21:07]
mircea_popescu yeah, read whole log, [21:07]
asciilifeform will post patch for 'fix' in a spell. gotta change clothes first. [21:07]
asciilifeform problem, currently, is that no one but me seems to be able to replicate this! [21:08]
asciilifeform maybe hanbot can try? gentoo box? [21:08]
mod6 mircea_popescu: nope. none. my deb6 environments (yes more than one) all compiled it fine with gcc 4.4.5. i didn't have problems on gentoo either fwiw. but not sure what the gentoo AMI had for a compiler. my guess is that I was fooled by gcc. [21:08]
mircea_popescu mod6 the question is : why has your compiler not complained about an undefined symbol [21:08]
mircea_popescu given tyhe symbol is in fact undefined. [21:08]
mod6 no good answers there. [21:09]
mircea_popescu its mother is, "what else is your compiler putting in you don't know about" [21:09]
asciilifeform ^^^ [21:09]
mircea_popescu and their joint horrible twin sister being, "hey, turns out so called static builds aren't even static" [21:09]
asciilifeform ^^^^ [21:09]
mircea_popescu by now we have a family of these monsters, which is very worrisome,. [21:09]
mod6 i think, maybe im not the right guy for this. or at minimum, I need someone who can look over my shoulder on this. there's no way we should have these issues 5 months into a project. [21:09]
* asciilifeform lays off the poor ^ key [21:09]
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asciilifeform but mircea_popescu has it. [21:10]
asciilifeform in spades. [21:10]
mircea_popescu mod6 no, actually, there's no way to have these issues INTO GCC!!! [21:10]
asciilifeform i take it mircea_popescu is a gcc-bug-virgin [21:10]
mircea_popescu which is a 20 year old project, and which i had been using as a reason to justify why im not taking a piss in rms' hairdo [21:10]
asciilifeform or - was [21:10]
mod6 mp: im not sure I follow [21:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's bugs and there's bugs. [21:10]
mircea_popescu mod6 from which point ? [21:10]
mod6 I don't know why it worked for me. [21:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rms is long in the tooth, old, and endlessly hammered by clean-shaven fools who don't eat 'toe jam' and spit in his face [21:10]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 no, actually, there's no way to have these issues INTO GCC!!! << here. what? [21:10]
mircea_popescu mod6 what i'm saying is, this stuff would not reasonably be expected by you, nor is it a function of the project. [21:11]
asciilifeform for all we know, 'toe jam' is a micronutrient [21:11]
mod6 i guess it was doing something strange on my end, or maybe debian 6 has something strange it does? [21:11]
mircea_popescu it looks more like very major issues with gcc itself. [21:11]
asciilifeform one without which a decent compiler is quite impossible. [21:11]
* mod6 reads scroll back [21:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the issues cut deeper than gcc. we are dealing with what ilkka kokkarinen called 'unprincipled exception', where something is allowed to stay broken because fixing it would break 10,000 other things. [21:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform why i'd kinda like to get to the bottom of this. [21:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform unprincipled exceptions are fine IF DOCUMENTED [21:12]
mircea_popescu the undocumented unprincipled exception is something entirely different. [21:12]
asciilifeform it is also possible that i am somehow mistaken about all of this [21:12]
mircea_popescu sure. [21:12]
mircea_popescu the only way to find out is to hammer the things that worked until we know why the fuck they worked. [21:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, ever published the recipe to obtain that "statically linked is not statically linked" error ? [21:13]
asciilifeform but regardless, i have at least two dozen proggies on this here box that -have- to be built with gcc x.y.z or else [21:13]
asciilifeform it is nothing new to the veteran turd-shoveler. [21:14]
cazalla chetty Chillum chiral chmod755__ coalbe coingenuity ColinT copumpkin CryptoGoon Crypton CryptOprah [21:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the recipe consists of attempting to build it on either of my boxes after patched to fix the integer thing [21:14]
mircea_popescu people derping about how "bitcoin will fail because tis or that" are such fucking idiots, incidentally. COMPUTING NEVER WORKED. [21:14]
mircea_popescu if that were the criteria... [21:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's the peculiarities of said boxes ? [21:15]
mircea_popescu how would someone reproduce it ? [21:15]
* asciilifeform cranks out patch [21:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: posted earlier in thread [21:15]
mircea_popescu aok [21:15]
asciilifeform about to post more detail [21:15]
mircea_popescu k [21:15]
mod6 <+ascii_field> has any of you lot checked to see that the executable resulting from this build ACTUALL contains the openssl built by ? << i never did, this could be a problem too [21:16]
mircea_popescu << is this something along the lines of "nothing bad can happen to me im a nice person minding my own biznis" ? [21:16]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:26:52; funkenstein_: i don't see this giant [21:16]
mircea_popescu mod6 i thought you tested it in vms ? [21:16]
mircea_popescu those'd only have one conceivably. [21:16]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> the idea is, for someone wanting to copy your environment, to be able to do so with minimal work << i think going forward this is the only thing we'll support/build from/work on, something that we agree is "good" [21:17]
mircea_popescu yeah but how deep does it go [21:17]
* assbot gives voice to NewLiberty [21:18]
NewLiberty April fools, or no? [21:18]
assbot Yanis Varoufakis: "Greece to Adopt the Bitcoin If Eurogroup Doesn't Give Us a Deal" | ... ( ) [21:18]
mircea_popescu << yeah there's no mistake there. [21:19]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:37:17; ascii_field: mistook?! [21:19]
mircea_popescu NewLiberty never heard of the site, so... [21:19]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 i thought you tested it in vms ? << yup. one virtual box deb 6 vm, one aws deb6 AMI and a friend had a separate deb6 ami. my gentoo testing was on gentoo aws AMI also. [21:19]
mircea_popescu so it wouldn't have an openssl other than what makes [21:20]
mircea_popescu unless there's a magic one ? [21:20]
mod6 i can take a look at mine in xxd, just a moment. [21:20]
mod6 (the virtualbox one, in particular.) [21:20]
hanbot asciilifeform> maybe hanbot can try? gentoo box? << would love to help out, unfortunately i haven't managed to get it working quite yet. [21:21]
mircea_popescu << wait, *I* have to balance my budget ? [21:21]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 22:43:56; ben_vulpes: we could readily employ thousands. << you and what budget?! [21:21]
mircea_popescu fuck that shit, obama is the blessed child of the heavens, can run deficits ? [21:21]
mircea_popescu what sort of contest is this ? [21:22]
mircea_popescu i am happy to announce that for the fy 2014 serenissima ran a whopping 5798796857967496834% deficit [21:22]
mircea_popescu all voluntarily contributed. [21:22]
mircea_popescu this is the contemplated policy going forward. [21:22]
mod6 someone also mentioned that we (the bitcoin foundation) should host the openssl, bdb, and boost libs on our website for dl. i decided against that as i like someone to feel like they're getting a copy from the originator. (this is from yesterday) [21:24]
mircea_popescu yeah that someone was me [21:25]
mod6 so that's why that isthe way it is. [21:25]
mircea_popescu the reason i proposed that is because i have no doubt the "originators" will sooner or later run away with the code. [21:25]
mod6 fair assessment. i thought the same thing at first, and even had all the libs on our site. then started thinking conversely about it. [21:26]
mod6 we can change that up. that's easy enough. [21:26]
asciilifeform jurov!!!!!!!!!!!!! [21:26]
mircea_popescu not like people can't pull them from the source. [21:26]
asciilifeform it ate it [21:26]
asciilifeform motherfucker [21:26]
mircea_popescu think of it as a cache or something. [21:26]
mod6 sure [21:26]
asciilifeform and then i put it in a tarball and signed [21:28]
asciilifeform and STILL ATE IT [21:28]
asciilifeform jurov!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [21:28]
jurov asciilifeform sigh. it expects a clearsigned text, not just attachments with detached sigs [21:29]
asciilifeform i thought signed text can replace body [21:29]
asciilifeform (NO I WILL NOT manually trim the line lengths of the compiler barf.) [21:29]
asciilifeform and i don't -want- them trimmed [21:29]
asciilifeform i want that thing to display as it would from my fucking disk. [21:30]
jurov no that's fine, just put short clearsigned comment what are the other attachments about [21:30]
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mod6 fuck [21:40]
mod6 so i dunno, but this doensn't look right: [21:40]
assbot ... ( ) [21:40]
mod6 my deb machine was installed in december, but maybe the system wide OpenSSL 1.0.1g was upgraded in feb. The version the system wide gives me is April 7 2014. The xxd output looks like its indicating the one from the system. [21:41]
mod6 *sigh* [21:41]
mod6 brb [21:41]
mircea_popescu !s devil pay love him [21:47]
assbot 2 results for 'devil pay love him' : [21:47]
mircea_popescu mothefucker. the two results lead to... referneces, without actual link, of the original. [21:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform happen to recall original ? [21:48]
mircea_popescu found for later. [21:51]
assbot Pushing the soft tender flesh of a friend against the sharp rotating blades of the immutable machine. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [21:51]
mod6 so if that's not working as expected, I (we) need help getting the makefile in order so that it does this correctly & the script if that's part of the problem also. [21:52]
mod6 obviously, i don't have a clue as to what's going on there. [21:52]
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ben_vulpes mod6: how does that dpaste indicate the system ssl? [21:56]
ben_vulpes i don't know how to read xxd output at all [21:56]
mod6 'OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7' << is probably referring to the output seen here: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014 [21:57]
mod6 I don't know for sure though. [21:57]
mod6 alf might know. i bet it's the wrong goddamn one [21:57]
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ben_vulpes isn't that the release date of 1.0.1g? [22:00]
ben_vulpes [22:00]
assbot OpenSSL: Old 1.0.1 Releases ... ( ) [22:00]
ben_vulpes the version of openssl you and alf found to not wedge bitcoind? [22:01]
mod6 my hunch is that this is not working as expected. I need alf to verify for me. [22:02]
mod6 or help me verify [22:02]
asciilifeform jurov: can delete 2nd post, it is redundant [22:02]
asciilifeform or zap it all, i'll resend in a sec [22:04]
asciilifeform [22:05]
assbot ... ( ) [22:05]
asciilifeform ^ finally. [22:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu et al ^ [22:05]
mod6 asciilifeform: is there a definitive way to check the binary for which SSL is linked in? [22:06]
asciilifeform mod6: readelf [22:07]
asciilifeform readelf -a bitcoind | grep -i ssl [22:07]
asciilifeform but! [22:07]
asciilifeform i think this only works for DYNAMIC [22:08]
asciilifeform cannot possibly work for static build. [22:08]
asciilifeform which is one of the penalties for going static [22:08]
mod6 did you see my paste? [22:08]
asciilifeform the only way to know what's in a static build is a disassembler, a stead hand, a thermos of coffee, and some familiarity with the constituent parts [22:08]
asciilifeform *steady hand [22:08]
mod6 yeah i get nothing from these: root@debian-test:~/release-test/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/bitcoin/src# readelf -a bitcoind | grep -i ssl [22:09]
mod6 root@debian-test:~/release-test/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/bitcoin/src# readelf -a bitcoind | grep -i SSL [22:09]
asciilifeform and you won't. [22:09]
asciilifeform because - elementarily - static. [22:09]
asciilifeform that means it's all ground beef. [22:09]
mod6 ok got it. [22:09]
mod6 so need to run in gdb and disassemble. [22:09]
asciilifeform try turning debug symbols back on [22:09]
BingoBoingo which is one of the penalties for going static << The most important part of a turkey sandwich is the ham [22:10]
asciilifeform then might get something from the DWARF data. [22:10]
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mod6 next part here... in your email, it seems that you apply your patch "asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.patch", and this doesnt seem to completely solve it... [22:10]
mod6 there is another error beyond that one?? [22:10]
asciilifeform read whole thing plz [22:11]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [22:11]
asciilifeform after the words 'Let's try that build again:' [22:11]
mod6 yeah,it's weird. it seemed to puke on this: [22:12]
mod6 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.3/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lssl [22:12]
mod6 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.3/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lcrypto [22:12]
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decimation ^ openssl failed to build/install [22:14]
asciilifeform it built [22:15]
asciilifeform this is the static build, remember! [22:15]
asciilifeform it built. [22:15]
asciilifeform and is exactly where it was supposed to go. [22:15]
asciilifeform this is the build. [22:15]
decimation that's a good point, why is ld complaining [22:15]
asciilifeform or hm, no it isn't. [22:16]
asciilifeform lol [22:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's not retarded having a manifest with it dood. [22:17]
asciilifeform missed this because the dir was there, and with some contents [22:17]
asciilifeform but not the whole thing. [22:17]
decimation dynamic libraries are the depressing result of the c-machine's sad attempt to have a global namespace [22:17]
asciilifeform decimation has it [22:17]
mircea_popescu cannot possibly work for static build. << this. [22:18]
mircea_popescu the only reasonable way to go forward at this point would be a) edit the source of the ssl we intend to use to include a magic string ; b) make ; c) strings on the binary. [22:19]
asciilifeform or turn debug on. [22:19]
asciilifeform then objdump. [22:19]
mircea_popescu im not sure i'd trust it. hey, if gcc is dubious ? [22:19]
asciilifeform cms.pod around line 457: Expected text after =item, not a number [22:20]
asciilifeform cms.pod around line 461: Expected text after =item, not a number [22:20]
asciilifeform cms.pod around line 465: Expected text after =item, not a number [22:20]
asciilifeform cms.pod around line 470: Expected text after =item, not a number [22:20]
asciilifeform cms.pod around line 474: Expected text after =item, not a number [22:20]
asciilifeform POD document had syntax errors at /usr/bin/pod2man line 71. [22:20]
asciilifeform Makefile:640: recipe for target 'install_docs' failed [22:20]
asciilifeform make: *** [install_docs] Error 1 [22:20]
mircea_popescu in general this is the golden pill to defeat "general purpose" poisoned compiler, that auto-pulls the magic diddled dependency : put a x = "hash" in the code, compile, see if it included it. [22:20]
asciilifeform ^ how openssl dies. [22:20]
asciilifeform note that it died a mostly silent death, buried beneath a torrent of barf from other compiles [22:20]
asciilifeform and did not notice. [22:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ultimately we audit the bins [22:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is no escape from this. [22:21]
mircea_popescu "/home/stas/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/include/boost/asio/detail/impl/socket_ops.ipp:2900: warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking" [22:21]
mircea_popescu this is seriously a bigger deal than whatever obama fucking derped today. [22:21]
decimation that's a common bug [22:21]
asciilifeform (i sorta do this for a living. but no one should take only my word for things.) [22:21]
mircea_popescu decimation tell ? [22:21]
* asciilifeform off to pet pet, bbl [22:21]
decimation if I recall the getaddrinfo calls up the resolv.conf apparatus [22:21]
decimation [22:22]
assbot c - Create statically-linked binary that uses getaddrinfo? - Stack Overflow ... ( ) [22:22]
decimation ie it loads 'binary plugins' by design [22:22]
mircea_popescu so basically the problem there is that it says it's static but links dynamically ? [22:22]
decimation I gather the warning means that it will probably work on the system on which it is built but if you move it to a different system (the binary) you might not be able to resolve dns properly [22:23]
mircea_popescu fucking dns. [22:23]
decimation yes, the traditional glibc/dns client shit is quite turdly [22:24]
decimation but apparently nobody gives a shit, like the open ntp ddos amplifiers [22:24]
mircea_popescu which then inspires idiocy in stuff like wordpress. "hey, open ddos amplification is industry standard!!11" [22:25]
decimation yes, exactly [22:25]
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BingoBoingo but apparently nobody gives a shit, like the open ntp ddos amplifiers << Software names make this shit weird because there was ntpd which had this problem and openntpd which to my knowledge didn't [22:27]
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decimation ntpd was a somewhat misguided attempt to turn unix into a 'scientific instrument' [22:28]
BingoBoingo [22:28]
assbot Nuclear waste spill: How a pro-organic push sparked $240m blunder • The Register ... ( ) [22:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.00026088 = 19.3051 BTC [+] [22:30]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [22:30]
decimation lol [22:30]
decimation "But enough of such simplicities, let us now turn our attention to the real headscratcher. The source of that drum was Los Alamos, which is largely – but by no means exclusively – a nuclear weapons lab. And we have someone there who apparently preferentially purchases organically. A" [22:31]
BingoBoingo Oppenheimer himself was enough of a hippy to go on the "bad" list [22:32]
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ben_vulpes so what *is* the #b-a sanctioned os? [22:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41002 @ 0.00026089 = 10.697 BTC [+] {2} [22:59]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: without a full deturding of a stack there likely can not be a single one blessed OS [23:00]
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ben_vulpes at the end of the day, man must compute [23:01]
decimation ben_vulpes: I use rhel because I know it [23:01]
decimation but rhel 7 may end that [23:01]
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ben_vulpes how did you come to rhel? [23:01]
decimation it was used in my day job, became a habit [23:02]
decimation although I agree with folks who assert that redhat is gov't influenced, I also think that there is something to the idea of freezing a baseline and keeping it stable [23:03]
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BingoBoingo OpenBSD has been nice to me, but weird compared to linux and as a point that displeases MP poor fundraiser Bob Beck is in their WoT [23:04]
decimation my issue with openbsd is relatively poor hardware support [23:04]
decimation but that's a function of their focus [23:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 291751 @ 0.00025271 = 73.7284 BTC [-] {3} [23:06]
BingoBoingo I had to replace the wifi card in this machine at a cost of $25, but that was not a dealbreaker. It's the other weird that prevents wholesale recommendation. It to asciilifeform's disappoint lacks an Ada [23:06]
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asciilifeform wat [23:07]
asciilifeform what machine [23:07]
decimation why can't you build gcc/gnat? [23:07]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: daily work beast [23:07]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo's ? [23:07]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: OpenBSD does not have a working ada in its ports that I could discover [23:07]
ben_vulpes nvm i think i'm off-thread [23:08]
BingoBoingo If I want to revert to Nigbuntu or a linux, Sure I can get an Ada. [23:08]
decimation ben_vulpes: what linux/unix are you most familiar with? [23:08]
ben_vulpes "os x" [23:08]
decimation heh [23:08]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it has gcc. build with ada included in --enable-languages [23:08]
ben_vulpes feelsbad.png [23:08]
asciilifeform this should also work on crapple [23:08]
decimation I made a bug report on macports recently, was told to fix myself [23:08]
asciilifeform (assuming ordinary gcc still builds there!) [23:09]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'll add that on the 5.7 release to do list [23:09]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: not related to what we were doing though... [23:09]
asciilifeform or to openbsd [23:09]
BingoBoingo (assuming ordinary gcc still builds there!) << It seems they use a... modified GCC [23:09]
decimation I'm sure you can get ada working on osx but it's not as simple as 'port install gnat' [23:09]
asciilifeform (when i do the thing that requires the ada, it won't be happening on openbsd. or gentoo) [23:09]
decimation asciilifeform: buildroot? [23:10]
asciilifeform no [23:10]
asciilifeform iron. [23:10]
decimation actually some folks have tried to build ada kernel [23:10]
decimation as in no os? [23:10]
asciilifeform aha [23:10]
asciilifeform this is easier than it sounds [23:10]
* BingoBoingo was going to pick up an UltraSparc box this month, but the Chimp in Chief has forced a revision of all my budget priorities [23:10]
asciilifeform because ada spec -includes a scheduler- [23:10]
decimation yeah, basically single main() loop [23:10]
asciilifeform not same as a naked main() in c [23:11]
decimation that's nice [23:11]
asciilifeform you get civilization. [23:11]
asciilifeform the comforts of home. [23:11]
ben_vulpes heh. [23:11]
asciilifeform ;;google ada ravenscar [23:11]
gribble Ravenscar profile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high ... - SIGAda: ; The SPARK Ravenscar Profile - AdaCore: [23:11]
asciilifeform ^ all the detail you could ever wish for. [23:11]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: is your medium-term goal to cross compile bitcoind with buildroot? [23:12]
ben_vulpes forgive my *staggering* thickness [23:12]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aha [23:12]
ben_vulpes (is it in the set of whatever whatever) [23:13]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: but you are running ahead of the class even here. [23:13]
asciilifeform i actually sat down that time to properly fix the bastard blocks thing [23:13]
ben_vulpes my hero! [23:13]
asciilifeform wanted to build an instrumented version of bitcoind for this [23:13]
asciilifeform on ordinary machine. [23:13]
asciilifeform with nothing fancy or crosscompilatory whatsoever. [23:13]
asciilifeform and ended here. [23:13]
ben_vulpes putting bitcoind on pogo. [23:14]
asciilifeform i realize that i could do this just as well with my old traditional build. [23:14]
ben_vulpes somehow. [23:14]
asciilifeform but there is a Release ! [23:14]
asciilifeform and wanted my patches, when any, to diff -from it- [23:14]
asciilifeform not from the old crap [23:14]
asciilifeform because that's sorta what releases are for [23:14]
ben_vulpes what version was your "old crap"? [23:14]
asciilifeform included all the patches but the static-build stuff [23:15]
asciilifeform well, all the accepted patches plus my unaccepted integer fix patch (not today's, but the earlier one in portatron) [23:15]
ben_vulpes which was the integer patch again? [23:17]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: [23:17]
assbot ... ( ) [23:17]
asciilifeform that one [23:17]
decimation asciilifeform: < You can kinda run 'dtrace' on linux with his scripts [23:18]
assbot Linux Performance ... ( ) [23:18]
asciilifeform the ancestral 'strace' works for me [23:19]
decimation yeah that's the lion's share of it [23:19]
asciilifeform but we're talking about a b0rk3d -build- [23:19]
asciilifeform not run. [23:19]
decimation ah [23:19]
asciilifeform incidentally, my own portatronic build did not work without this patch. [23:21]
asciilifeform [23:23]
assbot security/openssl build failure | The FreeBSD Forums ... ( ) [23:23]
asciilifeform Motherfuckers. [23:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu check it out ^ [23:23]
* BingoBoingo naive, insufficiently initiated here, but how does build with libressl portable 2.0 or later on a linux? [23:24]
mod6 it probably does not [23:25]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i have not tried it [23:25]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: but recall the thread where mircea_popescu demanded mathematical proof. [23:25]
decimation I remember fixing that by turning off docs [23:25]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: i recently got an itch to try that myself [23:26]
asciilifeform aha so now we have a local fork of openssl ? [23:26]
asciilifeform who wants to maintain it ? [23:26]
ben_vulpes join the glorious open source archaelogy project of #bitcoin-assets [23:26]
ben_vulpes "does the sub fly if i tape this jet engine to it?" [23:26]
asciilifeform [23:26]
assbot Logged on 26-02-2015 21:33:29; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stuck with math proven equivalence. [23:26]
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BingoBoingo I suggest this not as a solution to the OpenSSL turdation and version hell, but as a way to identify which parts of OpenSSL turdify unforgivably [23:26]
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asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it is, to use my technical term, a spittoon. [23:27]
asciilifeform !s spittoon [23:27]
assbot 24 results for 'spittoon' : [23:27]
decimation If you look at how redhat 'maintains' a baseline of code, you find that they pile up patches as shit breaks [23:27]
* BingoBoingo only gave chewing tobacco 3 weeks as a habit before returning to smoked tobacco [23:27]
asciilifeform decimation: the patches reliably break, in their turn, other things [23:28]
decimation indeed, which require more patches [23:28]
decimation this kinda 'works' when you are trying to keep a somewhat frozen baseline [23:28]
decimation not so much if you want to add any features [23:28]
asciilifeform which is why that human turd jon callas kept going on and on about how 'real security patches, even against user's will, because updates are the most important thing in security' [23:28]
asciilifeform this is 'the hole through which the night walks in', to borrow a mircea_popescuism [23:29]
decimation ^ real security is designed without bugs [23:29]
asciilifeform aha. [23:29]
asciilifeform and is meta-designed to make this thinkable and practical. [23:29]
decimation but as long as 'we' are maintaining someone else's code it's pretty much inevitible to fall into the hole [23:29]
asciilifeform we never got out of it [23:29]
asciilifeform were always in the hole. [23:29]
decimation indeed. [23:29]
decimation related > [23:33]
assbot Re: [saag] Algorithms/modes requested by users/customers ... ( ) [23:33]
decimation "Compare this to the example I gave earlier of performing a TLS exchange with Amazon. This performs an in-depth test of all the crypto algorithms (corresponding to the FIPS algorithm tests, including ones that FIPS ignores), and the crypto mechanisms (many/most of which FIPS again ignores). In other words simply by connecting to Amazon using TLS and ordering a "Scrubs" DVD for [23:34]
decimation $19.95 I'm getting more comprehensive algorithm testing than I can for a five-figure sum with the FIPS algorithm tests." [23:34]
asciilifeform the tests are a chump tax charged on folks peddling turdware to usg and friends [23:35]
decimation aye, because usg 'requires' it [23:35]
asciilifeform exceptions free for the asking for 'favourite sons' of course [23:35]
asciilifeform you will never hear of northrop or lockheed losing a contract from failing to pass 'fips' etc [23:35]
asciilifeform see the case of the 'drone' pinched in iran, which was gps-spoofable because crypto was omitted entirely [23:36]
asciilifeform which 'fips' did -it- pass. [23:36]
decimation lol even apple plays the game [23:37]
assbot iOS 6 granted FIPS 140-2, approved for U.S. government use | ZDNet ... ( ) [23:37]
asciilifeform of course it plays [23:37]
asciilifeform being a dept of usg [23:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133000 @ 0.0002609 = 34.6997 BTC [+] [23:37]
decimation "U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a division of U.S. Homeland Security, said it would pull the plug on its 17,600 employee BlackBerrys and favor iPhones instead. The deal, according to a "solicitation" document, would be worth $2.1 million — to the U.S. taxpayer, at least." [23:37]
asciilifeform (there is no private industry, in the traditional sense, in usg-dom. nothing larger than a hotdog stand, certainly.) [23:37]
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ben_vulpes oh, humbug. [23:38]
ben_vulpes maybe not where you live. [23:38]
decimation asciilifeform: usg buys everything on the 'friends&family' plan [23:38]
asciilifeform nowhere. [23:38]
asciilifeform see tlp's piece. [23:38]
asciilifeform say ben_vulpes sells aluminum siding. by the gigatonne. [23:38]
asciilifeform private? [23:38]
asciilifeform but then look - who buys it? with what ? [23:38]
asciilifeform and for what. [23:38]
ben_vulpes i dunno man, new relic isn't terrifically dependent on government purchases. [23:39]
ben_vulpes salesforce either. [23:39]
BingoBoingo maybe not where you live. << You may know there where, but not the how to look [23:39]
asciilifeform is mickey-d usg ? [23:39]
asciilifeform no one who walks in, likely is usg. certainly not official procurer [23:40]
asciilifeform but where do the clientele get their dough ? [23:40]
ben_vulpes "everything comes from the government" my arse [23:40]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: take jupiter. [23:40]
ben_vulpes what now? [23:40]
asciilifeform while not everything in the solar system 'comes from jupiter' - he has a say in what happens. [23:40]
BingoBoingo is mickey-d usg ? << When I worked there after Library school frozen meat cam in boxes labeled Cargill, member of Carlisle group, indicted somewhat in Farenheit-911 [23:40]
asciilifeform and nothing can be meaningfully described without him. [23:41]
ben_vulpes modern fascist state permutation of all aspects of life. [23:41]
asciilifeform aha [23:41]
BingoBoingo "National Socialism"(TM) [23:41]
ben_vulpes plenty happens beyond its domain. its domain, as was the french, is vastly less broad and strong than it thinks. [23:42]
decimation 'the mountains are high and the emperor is far away' [23:43]
asciilifeform ^ pre-telegraph - was true [23:43]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Perhaps re-read though beast has a dissciative mental disorder and this brave soul reporting suffers isolation the thread doesn't tear [23:43]
assbot ... ( ) [23:43]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: usg buys everything on the 'friends&family' plan << And no one knows how tenous their connection is as Force, Carl Mark IV can likely attest [23:45]
asciilifeform salesforce either << usg is not the post office. usg is precisely the folks who perpetrate things such as 'salesforce.' [23:45]
decimation BingoBoingo: "Among the purposes of 'Snowden' - who never 'stole' any documents - is to increase the sense of terrorism and blackmail among governments; " < to believe this is to travel through the looking-glass [23:46]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: aha! [23:46]
BingoBoingo decimation: I have never seen pills colored #FF000 nor #0000FF even when observing pharmacy school slide decks for two years [23:47]
mircea_popescu << there you go mr budget :D [23:49]
assbot Logged on 02-04-2015 01:26:21; scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [23:49]
BingoBoingo decimation: Snowden is not a person with Agency, yet he has handlers who are Agents. [23:50]
decimation mircea_popescu: note that china knows how this game works; is taking 'possession' of the south china sea [23:50]
mircea_popescu << really a minor point. [23:50]
assbot Logged on 02-04-2015 02:00:00; BingoBoingo: OpenBSD has been nice to me, but weird compared to linux and as a point that displeases MP poor fundraiser Bob Beck is in their WoT [23:50]
mircea_popescu decimation im very much left wondering by asciilifeform's ideas about china. i dunno that it's in any sense comensal with the us. [23:50]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin above MtGox $266 high 2 years on" Odds: 36(Y):64(N) by coin, 63(Y):37(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.38145505 BTC. Current weight: 16,797. [23:50]
decimation well, china has a relatively small core of 'managers', usg is really a headless beast [23:52]
mircea_popescu (commensal = eating at same table) [23:53]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I know openbsd has a plan for governance post-Theo. The exact plans are opaque to me. It would be abberant for Beck to naturally outlive Theo, but... known unknown [23:55]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [23:55]
nubbins` hi [23:55]
mircea_popescu no u [23:56]
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