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	<title>Comments on: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies"</title>
	<atom:link href="http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/</link>
	<description>Moving targets for a fast crowd.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2026 03:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The ownership of Bitcoin : custody, transactions and dispute resolution. &#171; Dorion Mode</title>
		<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-199050</link>
		<dc:creator>The ownership of Bitcoin : custody, transactions and dispute resolution. &#171; Dorion Mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2023 21:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trilema.com/?p=56073#comment-199050</guid>
		<description>[...] while attempting to hijack the history. Last I checked, it has more blocks, because it suffered the woes of Altcoin, but the computational resources committed to it and thus, vouching for it, are much much [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while attempting to hijack the history. Last I checked, it has more blocks, because it suffered the woes of Altcoin, but the computational resources committed to it and thus, vouching for it, are much much [...]</p>
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		<title>By: So where does Peter Schiff get it twisted wrt to money generally and Bitcoin in particular ? &#171; Dorion Mode</title>
		<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-169564</link>
		<dc:creator>So where does Peter Schiff get it twisted wrt to money generally and Bitcoin in particular ? &#171; Dorion Mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trilema.com/?p=56073#comment-169564</guid>
		<description>[...] of the mining network and the incentives this strength carries, you're going to want to read The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies". Bitcoin's mining advantage has only grown, not only in the context of other alleged [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the mining network and the incentives this strength carries, you're going to want to read The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies". Bitcoin's mining advantage has only grown, not only in the context of other alleged [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Simple Steps Part 3: Smiling, Dialing and Closing &#171; Dorion Mode</title>
		<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-164015</link>
		<dc:creator>Simple Steps Part 3: Smiling, Dialing and Closing &#171; Dorion Mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2021 02:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trilema.com/?p=56073#comment-164015</guid>
		<description>[...] of the Coinapult crew ; Ver owned a piece of Coinapult too. In less than a year, Erik went from, "there can only be one", to shapeshifting alts, but I suppose for his sake he's extracting the BTC outta those spreads. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the Coinapult crew ; Ver owned a piece of Coinapult too. In less than a year, Erik went from, "there can only be one", to shapeshifting alts, but I suppose for his sake he's extracting the BTC outta those spreads. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mircea Popescu</title>
		<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-157647</link>
		<dc:creator>Mircea Popescu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2020 00:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trilema.com/?p=56073#comment-157647</guid>
		<description>I can't believe solidcoin's lulz are still being passed about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can't believe solidcoin's lulz are still being passed about.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Behold a Pale Horse</title>
		<link>http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/#comment-157624</link>
		<dc:creator>Behold a Pale Horse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2020 20:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trilema.com/?p=56073#comment-157624</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
A WoT is weak subjectivity.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I really don't give a shit what three nobody neckbeards wetfarted on each other. Stop spamming inane links to shit, I won't have to shitcan you.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You seem to misconstrue my point? My prior comments were somewhat incoherent. The essence of the problem with proof-of-stake is that there’s nothing-at-stake (no cost to attack it and thus no objective reality) — it’s essentially the delusion of democrazy. That was the point of linking you to my comments at the bottom of the Eth wiki wherein I reiterated the problems with proof-of-stake.

The problem with Nakamoto proof-of-work is that it’s also democrazy because it subjects the major minority to the will of the simple majority aka the 50+% attack. The attack will be profitable via the extortion of censoring transactions. It appears to have been designed for this outcome because eventually the mining reward-based Nash equilibrium is lost as the protocol reward shrinks relative to the transaction fees reward aka incentives compatibility for consensus is lost and an oligarchy must take control to enforce consensus. Bitcoin eventually becomes a permissioned, fiat system and there will be only one sovereign who controls it. It’s Biblical.

The design I vaguely contemplated and posited may be the only alternative. I essentially posit to combine proof-of-work to eliminate nothing-at-stake with the objectivity of being there in real-time (a facet of proof-of-stake without the nothing-at-stake) to eliminate the weakness of Bitcoin — i.e. 50+% attacks are eliminated. The tradeoff is that my design has no prima facie objectivity for those who weren’t there in real-time, so they’ll need to trust someone that was and thus the analogy to a WoT and my reference to Vitalik's weak subjectivity but that shouldn’t be conflated with nothing-at-stake. Yet there’s still prima facie objectivity as the amount of proof-of-work that has been burned and thus the value of that blockchain — thus ultimately the non-fraudulent chain should eventually become the longest difficulty chain possessing the prima facie objectivity of Bitcoin after all, without Bitcoin’s major flaw. And after further thought I do believe the design I’m contemplating converges on consensus. The key distinction is that the reward for consensus the cost of loss of value of all one’s investment in the tokens instead of the mining reward. All those who are sufficiently vested will not form a consensus around the longest difficulty chain which is a fraud (as they observed it in real-time) because if fraud can succeed then their investment is ultimately worthless. Thus my design allows for fraud chains to fork off in their 50+% uneconomic, democrazy delusion whilst the vested economic majority are unaffected.

Perhaps this is my &lt;a href='http://trilema.com/2012/why-its-not-actually-in-your-best-interest-to-allow-a-hired-third-party-to-speak-for-you-in-criminal-proceedings/#comment-157612'&gt;comeback ticket&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
A WoT is weak subjectivity.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I really don't give a shit what three nobody neckbeards wetfarted on each other. Stop spamming inane links to shit, I won't have to shitcan you.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You seem to misconstrue my point? My prior comments were somewhat incoherent. The essence of the problem with proof-of-stake is that there’s nothing-at-stake (no cost to attack it and thus no objective reality) — it’s essentially the delusion of democrazy. That was the point of linking you to my comments at the bottom of the Eth wiki wherein I reiterated the problems with proof-of-stake.</p>
<p>The problem with Nakamoto proof-of-work is that it’s also democrazy because it subjects the major minority to the will of the simple majority aka the 50+% attack. The attack will be profitable via the extortion of censoring transactions. It appears to have been designed for this outcome because eventually the mining reward-based Nash equilibrium is lost as the protocol reward shrinks relative to the transaction fees reward aka incentives compatibility for consensus is lost and an oligarchy must take control to enforce consensus. Bitcoin eventually becomes a permissioned, fiat system and there will be only one sovereign who controls it. It’s Biblical.</p>
<p>The design I vaguely contemplated and posited may be the only alternative. I essentially posit to combine proof-of-work to eliminate nothing-at-stake with the objectivity of being there in real-time (a facet of proof-of-stake without the nothing-at-stake) to eliminate the weakness of Bitcoin — i.e. 50+% attacks are eliminated. The tradeoff is that my design has no prima facie objectivity for those who weren’t there in real-time, so they’ll need to trust someone that was and thus the analogy to a WoT and my reference to Vitalik's weak subjectivity but that shouldn’t be conflated with nothing-at-stake. Yet there’s still prima facie objectivity as the amount of proof-of-work that has been burned and thus the value of that blockchain — thus ultimately the non-fraudulent chain should eventually become the longest difficulty chain possessing the prima facie objectivity of Bitcoin after all, without Bitcoin’s major flaw. And after further thought I do believe the design I’m contemplating converges on consensus. The key distinction is that the reward for consensus the cost of loss of value of all one’s investment in the tokens instead of the mining reward. All those who are sufficiently vested will not form a consensus around the longest difficulty chain which is a fraud (as they observed it in real-time) because if fraud can succeed then their investment is ultimately worthless. Thus my design allows for fraud chains to fork off in their 50+% uneconomic, democrazy delusion whilst the vested economic majority are unaffected.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is my <a href='http://trilema.com/2012/why-its-not-actually-in-your-best-interest-to-allow-a-hired-third-party-to-speak-for-you-in-criminal-proceedings/#comment-157612'>comeback ticket</a>.</p>
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